Victory is My Destiny - MK Video and Critique Thread

[GOofyGV]

@Monra which colour where you using? I can't see it in your vid tbh.

@Swei

That bowser though...

Your friend isn't bad at all actualy. He could abuse bowser weaknesses a bit more. Bowser has a hard time getting in on mk because his moves are so slow. And he could mix up his game more with nair and dair. He didn't use those moves that much tbh. They are so good.
Anyway he could make his game a bit more smooth. It was solid for most parts but he had some awkward technical errors and they did get punished. He could also work more on gimping bowser. He landed a dair sacond stock and didn't finish the job.
That's basicly what I saw.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Really? Isn't he playing it rather offensive? A MK player I know never wants to approach any character. e.e

 

[GOofyGV]

well you can play offensive I mean look at Nairo or Mr-R. You just have to be patient and know when to attack and when to let you oponent attack.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Some people say Bowser is a really tough matchup that Match Tornado shuts down almost completly.
I personally don't know it well enough, but being patient, stay grounded, going in and out of Bowser's range, F/D tilting is a basic Defensive MK strategy, and Tornado when he mess up to would deal 20% damage on Bowser, he's just to heavy to get out of it easily. Just shielding is also part of it, but Bowser has a pretty good aerial mobility and an aerial grab, so I don't think is a great idea to shield when he's in the air.
Also remember he is the heaviest character in the game, so you probably want to save Dsmash for killing.

 

[GOofyGV]

play a hit and run game and punish everything with tornado is how I play the mu It's kinda free imo.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Well, I wouldn't guess most people would know the MU exactly...alot would say it's free just thinking he's a low tier giant slowpoke, but a few MK mainers I know told me that you don't have to go out on the lookout for Bowser because he's sort of dangerous...same goes to Ganondorf against other characters.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I really don't think there's any pants-on.head retardedly easy matchup (thanks for giving us that quote, BPC), at least for MK.
Everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) knows the matchup and has developed tricks to catch people offguard and somehow make them work, so not knowing a matchup is dangerous for us.

 

[GOofyGV]

well If the character has a good player behind its build It's always hard to win.
But some are harder then others

 

[billybeegood]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hotyl0K6DlU vs DK at FFC7

alright boys lettr rip

 

[ぱみゅ]

It's like half the time you were trying to move too fast and didn't really control what was happening. You even SDed/messed up many Shuttle Loops just because you were trying to be too flashy.
The last two stocks of match 3 are a classic case of "you must go back to the basics". Stop, think, space, bait, punish Nado.

Also, DK has a big blind spot right in front of him (except when he has a charged Punch, then you have to be a little more careful), juggling him is pretty easy, even if it doesn't end in a nado over the top, just keep popping him up, reapproach by gliding, and repeat until he's dead...
or just Tornado, it covers these options as long as you're not predictable and eat an Dair...

That said, Match Tornado is VERY important in this Matchup. Adds shield pressure because DK can do little to nothing against it OOS, sets up for juggling (see above how important is that), and a well spaced one can even shieldpoke him, so yeah...


TL;DR it needs moar nado



Also, learn to abuse water. DK is one of the fastest swimmers in the game, but once again, he has limited aerial options, you can punish him for pretty much everything OOW.

 

[Orion*]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hotyl0K6DlU vs DK at FFC7

alright boys lettr rip

you always do stuff

dont do

edit:
since this thread is dead

as dumb as my post sounds its actually serious

and i love your wario troll match w/ 5 dsmashes LMAO

 

[AtneyB]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YALdSYEzRgA
I know this matchup but would still appreciate some advice

 

[Esca]

Someone critique my mk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BIGYds6K2M

 

[BlueXenon]

Someone critique my mk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BIGYds6K2M

Imo think you should learn how to maintain a lead better. You did not need to destroy the statues and play aggressive/risky when you were winning by that much (a stock lead).
This is a guide on maintaing a lead
http://clashtournaments.com/?p=458

 

[Mr. game and watch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-TBGenIxrc&feature=share&list=PLABXYNrrhtBcTKfKfw206Ajxv48QhXibW

 

[Affinity]

Glad to see this thread is still alive. Somewhat.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Critique me tho

 

[BlueXenon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-TBGenIxrc&feature=share&list=PLABXYNrrhtBcTKfKfw206Ajxv48QhXibW

You glided at the wrong times. It's not always safe to glide onto the stage. It's better to just glide to the ledge. And you can also recover with tornado, down b, up b, side b and your jumps.
@36 when snake was offstage you could have hit him with an up b, nair or dair, but instead you nair'd him late and let him go back on stage.
When your on the ledge, you need to be more careful so you don't get hit by grenades.
@1:20 you had a chance to hit snake while he was offstage, but you chose to fsmash twice on the platform.

You lost your first stock because you weren't paying attention to snakes grenades. You should try your best to pay attention to all his projectiles.

Fair doesn't hit snake out of his up b.

You dash attacked a lot and it's not a very safe move.

The snake read your dash grab after coming back on from the ledge because you did it in the match before. You should try to mix up how you come back from the ledge so your opponent will have to guess what your going to do.

When you got hit at 5:30, you could have used your up b and maybe the invincibility frames would have saved you from getting hit. I could be very wrong though.
@ 5:33 the snake was able to uair you because you spammed your uair

You can't just run into snake because he has very powerful and quick moves.

One of your problems is juggling. You used the wrong moves while juggling or timed it wrong.
I used to practice against the level 3 cpu for snake everyday for about 30 stocks. I tried to kill snake as fast as I can every stock and tried out different things to see what works and what doesn't This helped me a lot with juggling snake, but I never became very good at it. If you can do this (99 stocks is better, but I couldn't do it that long) everyday, you will easily be able to juggle snake with out thinking about it too much. You can also use this time to learn how to use tornado better, and use your moves more accurately.
If you play a high level snake, it will be a lot harder to juggle them because they know a lot of different ways to get back to the ground.
You also need to play safer, mostly on the ledge. An opponent might hit you when your on the ledge after your invincibility frames end if you stay there too long.
I am not a high level player and i was never close to being one. I just like giving advice. I hope I helped.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Thanks~ some of the issue was I play this guy a lot(he's my teammate/best friend/rival/common training partner) so we both were playing eachother a lot as well, and not just the MU.

But I was being pretty reckless with my planking/approaches.
I listen to music when I play and tend to go ham when a dubstep song come on and there's a good drop.
I need to work on that :/

 

[Tesh]

didnt watch much but you gimped him and all u had to do was hold the ledge that first stock and u let him live by rolling back on.

 

[AtneyB]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTZ2lABB-u8
It's a set against Anoer's Wario.
I tried to apply the advice Reflex gave me in the Q&A thread but it didn't always work like I wanted to. Sometimes Wario gets in and it's hard to counter without getting punished right after. Also give me some tips on things I can improve please (besides execution).

 

[Tesh]

First minute of the game, i saw you get his twice from below because you were throwing out a bunch of uairs? Its a really fast move, but you still waste 1/4 of a second swinging in the wrong direction. 2nd time was at 0:55 and you could have stagespiked or gimped him if you had just naired.

@0:46 when you had that punish you could have dash grabbed him to the ledge for an air release into nair or shuttle loop to put him off stage for the kill.

 

[AtneyB]

Thanks for respond that quickly.
I won't reject some more tips tho lol, if you find some time.

 

[BlueXenon]

At 3:09 you attacked wario's shield in an unsafe way and got grabbed for it.

 

[Youngster Joey]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTZ2lABB-u8
It's a set against Anoer's Wario.
I tried to apply the advice Reflex gave me in the Q&A thread but it didn't always work like I wanted to. Sometimes Wario gets in and it's hard to counter without getting punished right after. Also give me some tips on things I can improve please (besides execution).

im not an mk main and i hardly secondary him so idk if my advice is really valid. i only watched the first game right now but it seems that in the last stock of that game you got really fishy for the kill. i think he just made a really bad mistake with his d smash that you could luckily punish. just play normally and the kill will come.

 

[AtneyB]

At 3:09 you attacked wario's shield in an unsafe way and got grabbed for it.

Yes it happens a lot to me. In that case I just didn't retreat enough that fair.
I know I need to play more calmly but it's like... I can't lol.

im not an mk main and i hardly secondary him so idk if my advice is really valid. i only watched the first game right now but it seems that in the last stock of that game you got really fishy for the kill. i think he just made a really bad mistake with his d smash that you could luckily punish. just play normally and the kill will come.

You're 100% right (that was kinda gross there lol). Those games were just "seriouslies" tho but still.

 

[Youngster Joey]

Yes it happens a lot to me. In that case I just didn't retreat enough that fair.
I know I need to play more calmly but it's like... I can't lol.



You're 100% right (that was kinda gross there lol). Those games were just "seriouslies" tho but still.

i think you still have a great mk tho. very fast but safe for the most part i think. i could learn from these i need to learn mk and how to beat him. i choked on an mk at my last tournament i really should have won but i didnt know the mu at all. believe it or not that was my first tournament mk

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Omg guys I know this MU!

Ok so like you need to grab him more. Grab release > GSL is easy damage, not good for killing. You can GR > Fsmash but it isn't guaranteed. I usually kill with GR > sweet spot Nair.

Also gotta be more careful with landing~

 

[Player-4]

MK can't GR Wario, unless they mash and if they do Nair is a better option for damage.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Actually, ANY and EVERY character can GR wario, and more specifically, because just GR isn't enough, anyone can air-release wario. The requirement is either

A) wario's feet are not touching the ground(this is the case if you grab him over the edge of the stage or the edge of a platform, OR if you grab him out of the air (before he lands you can land the grab))

B) Wario mashes out and hits any jump button(default X, Y, or up on control stick.)

If he starts his Dair too early to AC, you can shield grab it and get the grab release. Also dash grabbing him when he's near a ledge (stage) or dash grabbing him at all on a plat(except SV's plat if its from edge to opposite edge in the momentum of the movement of the platform) will also get you an air release. Or you can simply dash or pivot grab him as he's landing if he doesn't attack or of he uairs.


Now, Nair does do more damage than GSL, but it also kills a lot earlier. Why sacrifice garunteed kill for 1 more percent?(6-7 more percent if second hit of Nair, sure.)

Edit: http://youtu.be/fW-2ybplmBg start at 1:52.

Given I lose the match cause I'm bad and laber is better at the MK MU than I am at the Wario MU. But I'm not bad at it.

 

[Tesh]

I'm pretty sure nairing for significantly higher damage is better. You can always Aerial Shuttle Loop to kill earlier than nair if you grabbed at the ledge (only time you should be able to get it).

But any time you have a guaranteed punish near the ledge, dash grabbing him will force the release as long as you slide to the edge.

Related question: Does MK have a GR infinite on Wario if he gets an air release in the middle of the stage and pivot grabs over and over?

 

[Mr. game and watch]

No.

Nair doesn't do a lot more damage than GSL. 7% max but even then why stale the earlier kill move? It's kinda choice at that point. Also I get more GR's on wario grabbing him out if the air than I do over the ledge.

 

[clowsui]

Are you talking about Mk nair? It does like 16-20 damage on a clean strong hit lol. Gsl max is 14

 

[ぱみゅ]

GLS can deal like 25, Strong Hit+Weak hit+Glide Attack, but it requires being at low damage, a really bad DI and slow reflexes.

 

[Player-4]

Actually, ANY and EVERY character can GR wario, and more specifically, because just GR isn't enough, anyone can air-release wario. The requirement is either

A) wario's feet are not touching the ground(this is the case if you grab him over the edge of the stage or the edge of a platform, OR if you grab him out of the air (before he lands you can land the grab))

B) Wario mashes out and hits any jump button(default X, Y, or up on control stick.)

If he starts his Dair too early to AC, you can shield grab it and get the grab release. Also dash grabbing him when he's near a ledge (stage) or dash grabbing him at all on a plat(except SV's plat if its from edge to opposite edge in the momentum of the movement of the platform) will also get you an air release. Or you can simply dash or pivot grab him as he's landing if he doesn't attack or of he uairs.


Now, Nair does do more damage than GSL, but it also kills a lot earlier. Why sacrifice garunteed kill for 1 more percent?(6-7 more percent if second hit of Nair, sure.)

Edit: http://youtu.be/fW-2ybplmBg start at 1:52.

Given I lose the match cause I'm bad and laber is better at the MK MU than I am at the Wario MU. But I'm not bad at it.

GLS can deal like 25, Strong Hit+Weak hit+Glide Attack, but it requires being at low damage, a really bad DI and slow reflexes.

Both of these instances are too situational imo. Especially the stuff about SL doing 25% lol.

Too many people get caught up in so much useless bull****. Do what works and keep it simple.

Nair rarely kills Wario, since for one he lives so much longer off the sides then he does off the top, you really should be killing him with a gimp or smashes anyways, I rarely see Nair or GSL killing much these days unless they have bad DI or are just too high percent.

Besides all of this, MK has quite a few killing options, so why wouldn't you want to tack on as much damage as fast as possible? Nair is the right choice in the matter, build the percent and deal with killing him later, kill moves don't really become a factor unless you're wasting them around stupid percents anyways (like trying to Dsmash someone between 90-110% when you know it won't kill). Just make smart choices.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Are you talking about Mk nair? It does like 16-20 damage on a clean strong hit lol. Gsl max is 14

You realize how close these numbers are right?

@P4 I kill wario with Nair a lot :/
Not as much as dsmash but hey, I always am on the look out for that GR opportunity.

But my critique still stands, even despite the wario MU, you should grab more. MK has super nice throws.

Also Ty @tesh I forgot about GR to ASL off stage~ almost got me a kill earlier.


Almost :/

 

[Tesh]

Thats not nearly as close as you think man. On a guaranteed setup you should always reverse nair for the....20 damage it does. Thats a whole 6 percent more. Thats like an entire extra move.

Imo ASL is always going to put him in the worst position if you are trying to kill, even if it doesnt directly kill him you will get some options.

@ the grab release, i saw M2K do that to ally a while back, but i could never figure out if it really worked. oh well


Also you sig needs fixing man, i can help you with that if needed.

 

[GOofyGV]

The grab release works when you grab the oponent out of the air. If you grab him grounded it doesn't

 

[Mr. game and watch]

Unless he inputs a jump WHILE grabbed

 

[Tesh]

thats what i meant, if you get the first air release, the infinite is guaranteed until you trip right?