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Victory is My Destiny - MK Video and Critique Thread

!!!RM!!!

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 2, 2010
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Imperial Beach, CA
Whenever he hits you into the air and attempts to follow up you always Dair and risk losing a stock. (ex. 2:00) Instead of Dair, try FF air dodging. You put yourself closer to the ground instead of higher up, more reliably avoid the Bair/Uair, and ,depending on how he times his aerial, put yourself below him able to Uair frame trap.

Try to avoid landing next to him after a Dair. Chaingrabs are gay. :/

Don't Nado from across the stage like @3:13. :D
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
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Finland
Yeah I did some stupid **** in that match. It's embarrassing. Part of it was tourney stress. coughjohnscough
I was very reckless with my game and everything, in friendlies I don't get grabbed often >_>
 

theunabletable

Smash Lord
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Feb 18, 2009
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SoCal
Btw, what's non-commitment?
Basically kinda leaving all your options open depending on your current state.

IE if you're in the air, not air dodging, using a special, or an aerial would be not committing. On the ground walking around, or standing in place is non-committal because you can do ANYTHING out of it.
 

Kaffei

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
7,048
Basically kinda leaving all your options open depending on your current state.

IE if you're in the air, not air dodging, using a special, or an aerial would be not committing. On the ground walking around, or standing in place is non-committal because you can do ANYTHING out of it.
ahh okay. Thanks! =D
 

Orion*

Smash Researcher
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsWwnzYqTNI&feature=channel_video_title

Here is game 2 because game 1 I went peach for lolz. Hades is the best yoshi in my region and he ***** me. He also throws a lot of eggs. Christ.
I have a lot of issues fighting yoshi, he makes me panicy, cuz I can't kill him. @_@ any tips are very appreciated. Also I'm not sure if I was using brinstar to my advantage or not.
you hold shield to much

look at the start of the match, you get a nado and force him into a crappy position and then just hold shield lol.

youre nadoing at the wrong spots

nado his landings dont spam it as an approach
 

KassandraNova

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you hold shield to much

look at the start of the match, you get a nado and force him into a crappy position and then just hold shield lol.

youre nadoing at the wrong spots

nado his landings dont spam it as an approach
I'm afraid to approach yoshi on the ground. But thank you for this advice. I do shield a lot. xD I'll try to be smarter with my nado.

Thanks for the critique Ori! <3
 

Orion*

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Kaffei

IMO

you dsmash to much
you dont grab enough
you dtilt like every time after you do something, do it sometimes not ALL of the time.
froll is gay but you use it in unnecessary positions a lot
you dont get enough damage in when you get a uair at low percents


I'm afraid to approach yoshi on the ground. But thank you for this advice. I do shield a lot. xD I'll try to be smarter with my nado.

Thanks for the critique Ori! <3
Well... you can approach from the air but you need to close the distance on the ground first. MKs air speed is bad and imo it's easier to PS eggs than to try and get through them in the air. MKs dash speed is cool like that.

If you do nado from close enough at the right spacing all yoshi can really do is usmash or egg lay (its above the pivot grab height) and that forces him to like HARD read when you nado. So if you just kinda get in his face and mix up the timings its pretty hard.

Try and force yoshi to the ledge before you nado so he has less runaway options also ^_^
 

Kaffei

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Feb 8, 2008
Messages
7,048
Kaffei

IMO

you dsmash to much
you dont grab enough
you dtilt like every time after you do something, do it sometimes not ALL of the time.
froll is gay but you use it in unnecessary positions a lot
you dont get enough damage in when you get a uair at low percents
thx dude =D
Do you have any tips on how to get grabs in ditto
 

Orion*

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thx dude =D
Do you have any tips on how to get grabs in ditto
Well one you punish with dash attack a lot in situations where it makes more sense to just grab
most damage + better position to have them in.

the other way is to read something and legit force a grab

I.E. a landing or move

The thing is metaknight doesnt have super hard punishers outside of like fsmash or nair lol

Grabs give you a great setup angle and some good damage. So if I can't Punish w/ Fsmash or Nair I try to grab

However its a little greedy and I think I go for grabs to much (**cough** playing to much Europeans) but if you land it its much better than most other options as far as punishing imo.
 
Joined
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NNID
Budget_Player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoeiqO0SXM8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQo2KTl8S4M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8KNtmzidBo

My set vs. Xawas, a TL main. His TL is decent, but I'm actually fairly good at that matchup (kicked his *** in pools too). And then he unloads his MK and I can't do anything. Similar **** happened in pools against Light and Marc. :( What do? I really need help with the Ditto.

@Degree of Fear: watched the TL vid. A few things are noticeable... First of all, dashing against TL is essentially running into ****. MK is fairly slow to block out of a run, and his dash is slightly sluggish. Watch the first vid in this post, see how I do it; you really are going to spend a lot of time walking and powershielding bull**** he flings at you. And in most cases, you can punish this. Even Zair, if he's slightly off, can be punished with GSL or Fair. Sharking TL is generally a poor idea, his bombs are annoying. SideB has better vertical distance than DownB (when you got spiked). But for the most part, this match featured a lot of you just running into ****. You can't do that in this matchup; you have to walk a lot more. Tornado is also really good against TL if he doesn't have a bomb on hand. Also, your spacing could use a liiiittle work.
Tornado is, however, kinda lousy against fox. Seriously, don't randomly tornado; he pops out very easily, gets away from it easily, and can punish it very easily.
 

etecoon

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after just watching vid 2 once

you use shuttle loop too much as a risky panic attack. its main uses in the ditto are countering things and guaranteed follow ups(works because GSL counters like everything), you also cover failed usage of it with glide attack nearly every time

you need more patience in recovering, use more dimension cape to recover it's less risky than shuttle loop particularly where you're not even snapping to the ledge, you're just hitting his shield. also glide attacking back on stage way too much, it's one of your worst options in the ditto

need to learn guaranteed punishes more, a lot of times I'm seeing he's open and you're not doing anything with it

you follow him off stage to edge guard too much, this generally doesn't work out that well. if he gets any vertical separation at all he can just nado back on stage and you can't do anything about it. try grabbing the ledge and trying to hit him while you're invincible more
 

!!!RM!!!

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Somehow I knew your CP was gonna be PS2. :D

Like etecoon said, try not to recover with shuttle loop so much. Dimensional Cape or just grabbing the ledge are safer than SL. And try to reinforce your position with Uairs when you're offstage and recovering. You can shut down most options just by putting up a ceiling of Uairs.

When you're trying to get off the ledge you always Uair into SL. Try Uairing into air dodge onstage into Ftilt, GSL, Shield, etc. Its much more reliable and is both less committing and harder to react to on your opponent's part.

When you SHFair you should delay the Fair so that it autocancels, and you should also immediately put out a mixup move right after you land. Whether its GSL, Dtilt, Fsmash, or even Tornado just put something out there. You're gonna get dash grabbed if you don't. :p

Also with regards to SHFair, try not to directly approach them with it. Use it to shut down their options, not to get a hit in. If your opponent shields Fair then its a guaranteed grab for them unless they're like Tink or Olimar. >__>

Try to mix-up between aggressive and meta-gay(campy) playstyles every now and then. You seem to just be playing the same way the entire time no matter what position you're in. :/

Use da grabs moar.

Just generally try to use mix-ups more.
 

Orion*

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you follow him off stage to edge guard too much, this generally doesn't work out that well. if he gets any vertical separation at all he can just nado back on stage and you can't do anything about it. try grabbing the ledge and trying to hit him while you're invincible more
yeah don't copy me even though I do this a lot. I kinda condition people to not tornado and then I can get greedy :awesome:
 

cMeDu

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Canada
@kaffei

Your recovery from the ledge was predictable, mixup more from ledge please.
I feel that you're doing too many m2k like tricksies... like useless stuff :S
You dtilt too much and ftilt too little.

That's about it. Good stuff.

EDIT: Recover slower, like don't be so hasty in trying to get back on stage.
 

Kaffei

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Messages
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Well one you punish with dash attack a lot in situations where it makes more sense to just grab
most damage + better position to have them in.

the other way is to read something and legit force a grab

I.E. a landing or move

The thing is metaknight doesnt have super hard punishers outside of like fsmash or nair lol

Grabs give you a great setup angle and some good damage. So if I can't Punish w/ Fsmash or Nair I try to grab

However its a little greedy and I think I go for grabs to much (**cough** playing to much Europeans) but if you land it its much better than most other options as far as punishing imo.
Ooo ok. Thanks a lot Orion, really appreciate da advice =D

@kaffei

Your recovery from the ledge was predictable, mixup more from ledge please.
I feel that you're doing too many m2k like tricksies... like useless stuff :S
You dtilt too much and ftilt too little.

That's about it. Good stuff.
Ya man... I always nadoed from the stage!
I was scared to ftilt cus NEO always shielded it. any tips on how to land it more often?
lolz about the m2k stuff he is the only MK i ever watch so his habits become mine kind of

cMeDu said:
EDIT: Recover slower, like don't be so hasty in trying to get back on stage.
i will definitely keep this in mind. thx man =)

*writing all this stuff down on a sticky note and posting it on my desk lolz*
 

Kuro~

Nitoryu Kuro
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Why doesn't Sax post here himself...?
He does. He's just a very busy guy so he often doesnt have time to log in on smashboards and check both ucf and mk boards. So i take the liberty to post vids for him. Then when they are critiqued he comes and reads all them etc etc.

Did u get the replays from the ucf thread Xdeath?
 

SAX

Smash Ace
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Apopka
He does. He's just a very busy guy so he often doesnt have time to log in on smashboards and check both ucf and mk boards. So i take the liberty to post vids for him. Then when they are critiqued he comes and reads all them etc etc.

Did u get the replays from the ucf thread Xdeath?
Thanks Kuro~ =D


Sax :metaknight: vs 2Djeff :zerosuitsamus: (hes an IC main though)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hh4lN0a_Ok&feature=feedu

ik sax wanted some advice for the zss mu. There will be more vs Dtorr 2nd best zss in Florida up later.

Sax :metaknight: Solo:wario:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ucl12cYU3ZM&feature=feedu

Im not sure if he wanted this one critiqued but im posting it anyways.
And yessss please critique every match I have of a zss player MK boards please I need it!!!!!!

And no need to worry about the wario vid.
I know the wario MU pretty darn well. Solo will back me up on that one. That was a friendly, but solo saved cause his first kill on me was too good XD

Oh, and If anyone ever has trouble with the IC vs MK Match up, I'm here.
Do you want me to critique your vids against Jeff, Exdeath?

EDIT: Also Exdeath, we need to ditto friendly next time we meet up. I'm so bad at that, I got ***** xD
 

Exdeath

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Thanks Kuro~ =D




And yessss please critique every match I have of a zss player MK boards please I need it!!!!!!

And no need to worry about the wario vid.
I know the wario MU pretty darn well. Solo will back me up on that one. That was a friendly, but solo saved cause his first kill on me was too good XD

Oh, and If anyone ever has trouble with the IC vs MK Match up, I'm here.
Do you want me to critique your vids against Jeff, Exdeath?

EDIT: Also Exdeath, we need to ditto friendly next time we meet up. I'm so bad at that, I got ***** xD
I appreciate the offer, but I think that the main problem was just that I was playing poorly/was tired/impatient/etc. at that point. For example, he took my second stock in one of the videos that I have up because I Daired into the ground when I was hit by a blizzard. What I was trying to input was jump up with the control stick/C-Stick down, but I made that simple technical error and lost my stock at 0% because of it. I also got grabbed ~0% while charging Fsmash in the opposite direction haha. I'm not saying that Jeff won illegitimately though. Both Solo and Jeff beat me and that's all that matters.

I want to come to Apopka some time and practice with you guys for a day. I'll critique your ZSS videos later, but the advice I gave you at the tournament should be enough for you to beat every ZSS other than Nick Riddle.
 

Kuro~

Nitoryu Kuro
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I appreciate the offer, but I think that the main problem was just that I was playing poorly/was tired/impatient/etc. at that point. For example, he took my second stock in one of the videos that I have up because I Daired into the ground when I was hit by a blizzard. What I was trying to input was jump up with the control stick/C-Stick down, but I made that simple technical error and lost my stock at 0% because of it. I also got grabbed ~0% while charging Fsmash in the opposite direction haha. I'm not saying that Jeff won illegitimately though. Both Solo and Jeff beat me and that's all that matters.

I want to come to Apopka some time and practice with you guys for a day. I'll critique your ZSS videos later, but the advice I gave you at the tournament should be enough for you to beat every ZSS other than Nick Riddle.
You also got your tornados pivot grabbed twice for 2 stocks. And not enough FH rising fairs :p
 

SAX

Smash Ace
Joined
May 20, 2010
Messages
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Apopka
I appreciate the offer, but I think that the main problem was just that I was playing poorly/was tired/impatient/etc. at that point. For example, he took my second stock in one of the videos that I have up because I Daired into the ground when I was hit by a blizzard. What I was trying to input was jump up with the control stick/C-Stick down, but I made that simple technical error and lost my stock at 0% because of it. I also got grabbed ~0% while charging Fsmash in the opposite direction haha. I'm not saying that Jeff won illegitimately though. Both Solo and Jeff beat me and that's all that matters.

I want to come to Apopka some time and practice with you guys for a day. I'll critique your ZSS videos later, but the advice I gave you at the tournament should be enough for you to beat every ZSS other than Nick Riddle.
Yeah, you have to play PERFECTLY. You really have to want to win if you are going to win haha if that makes sense.
And what Kuro said, FHFairs are too good. Jeff knows how to grab it, but if you space it perfectly you wont get grabbed and it shield pokes Nana 70% of the time. It's great.

But anyways, Yeah it'd be cool havin you down here for a day. Just talk with jeff and see what you can get get organized.

Also, you gave me great zss advice at the tourny, but If you could write it down so I could read it, I'll learn it better. I learn better when reading something that is written down so I can study and memorize etc.

Thanks Xdeath =)
And I still demand dittos next time we meet!!
 

Exdeath

Smash Master
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Florida
Uh noo...o.o i watched the replays though a few times it wasnt nado specifically. Why you so defensive D:
I'm not being defensive. I just remember being pivot grabbed and being surprised because the range was a bit higher than I remembered it being.
 

Exdeath

Smash Master
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Messages
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Florida
Hey guys, Need some tips and a small critique if you don't mind please.

Vs Pierce
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTM7tt_9n3o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZBoxuJhyR0

Thanks!
I like how crisp and concise your Meta Knight is (I actually watched/studied some of your old vs. Pierce videos when I first started to study the MU).

Just some quick notes:

It isn't a good idea to glide into Marth's immediate attacking zone (no adjustment required for Marth), especially when he uses his second jump to come after you -- Marth players almost universally wait when they've used their double jump and you aren't within their range. When Marth has committed himself like that and he can't drift back to the stage without grabbing the ledge, I usually wait a bit and Neutral B just over Marth's head back to the stage (this is especially good when I'm ~100% and even better when Marth is 100%+).

This allows MK to make it back to the stage without being killed. If you space it properly, Marth can't Down-B or -- if Down-B does get hit by Neutral B -- the counter will not hit you, Up-B's knock back will very sour, etc. If you are high up, Marth can still punish you. Fortunately, you will be much closer to the stage (less likely to kill), your jumps will be renewed, and his kill options will probably be from a grab. This is as opposed to you dying ~100% from a Uair/Fair/etc. You used Up-B instead of this on the second match and the main reason that you weren't punished by it was because of Pierce whiffed the punish. If you used Neutral B, you would have been able to auto cancel and still had mix-ups if he chased you (likely unnecessary since you should have returned to a suitable position before he could enter your zone).

This is mostly just a preference, but you seemed to go for the gimp a bit too much. The risk/reward is good since you risked some damage and full stage control vs. his remaining stock, but ledge trapping was much more consistent in dealing damage and then returning him to a bad (sometimes more easily gimped) position. I do like how you were switching up on that aspect -- that's a good idea.

When Pierce was reverse Up-Bing toward the end of both matches, you could have ledge dropped>jump>Daired to end his stock. You don't seem to handle pressure off of the stage well in general and some of your pressure habits reminded me of Lucario haha. Don't be afraid to glide low against Marth (if he's coming after you, it's extremely televised) and you should be able to recover to the other side of the stage if you want to (you'll be on the ledge, but Marth doesn't have many options to ledge guard against it). ~1:47 on Game 1 you were Uairing Marth to finish a Uair chain, whiffed, and were punished for a decent amount for it. To prevent that, try fast-falling your Uair chain finishers. Even if you're wanting to react to his air dodge or lack thereof, you can still punish it with your remaining jump/Up-B.
 

iRJi

Smash Champion
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Sep 9, 2008
Messages
2,423
I like how crisp and concise your Meta Knight is (I actually watched/studied some of your old vs. Pierce videos when I first started to study the MU).

Just some quick notes:

It isn't a good idea to glide into Marth's immediate attacking zone (no adjustment required for Marth), especially when he uses his second jump to come after you -- Marth players almost universally wait when they've used their double jump and you aren't within their range. When Marth has committed himself like that and he can't drift back to the stage without grabbing the ledge, I usually wait a bit and Neutral B just over Marth's head back to the stage (this is especially good when I'm ~100% and even better when Marth is 100%+).

This allows MK to make it back to the stage without being killed. If you space it properly, Marth can't Down-B or -- if Down-B does get hit by Neutral B -- the counter will not hit you, Up-B's knock back will very sour, etc. If you are high up, Marth can still punish you. Fortunately, you will be much closer to the stage (less likely to kill), your jumps will be renewed, and his kill options will probably be from a grab. This is as opposed to you dying ~100% from a Uair/Fair/etc. You used Up-B instead of this on the second match and the main reason that you weren't punished by it was because of Pierce whiffed the punish. If you used Neutral B, you would have been able to auto cancel and still had mix-ups if he chased you (likely unnecessary since you should have returned to a suitable position before he could enter your zone).

This is mostly just a preference, but you seemed to go for the gimp a bit too much. The risk/reward is good since you risked some damage and full stage control vs. his remaining stock, but ledge trapping was much more consistent in dealing damage and then returning him to a bad (sometimes more easily gimped) position. I do like how you were switching up on that aspect -- that's a good idea.

When Pierce was reverse Up-Bing toward the end of both matches, you could have ledge dropped>jump>Daired to end his stock. You don't seem to handle pressure off of the stage well in general and some of your pressure habits reminded me of Lucario haha. Don't be afraid to glide low against Marth (if he's coming after you, it's extremely televised) and you should be able to recover to the other side of the stage if you want to (you'll be on the ledge, but Marth doesn't have many options to ledge guard against it). ~1:47 on Game 1 you were Uairing Marth to finish a Uair chain, whiffed, and were punished for a decent amount for it. To prevent that, try fast-falling your Uair chain finishers. Even if you're wanting to react to his air dodge or lack thereof, you can still punish it with your remaining jump/Up-B.

Very insightful. It's funny that you mention the lucario portion because I actually main Lucario lolol. I am pretty sure you know that though xD.

Thanks you very much though.

Anyone else?
 

!!!RM!!!

Smash Journeyman
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Nov 2, 2010
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Imperial Beach, CA
I saw you kinda missed out on a few punishes here and there when Pierce was above you and landing. He relied on Marth's stronger aerial mobility to avoid juggling attempts, and didn't airdodge so much. I saw maybe 5-10 possible shuttle loops in there. Most of which would've led to edgeguard attempts; which leads me to the next thing I saw.

Sometimes when Pierce was recovering, you didn't put enough pressure on him before he went to the ledge. I think every time he went to the ledge he waited for you to do something first, stalled, and then acted accordingly. If he's attempting a read like that consistently you should be able to easily capitalize on it and get a stock every now and then. Try flipping the tables on him and react to what he does instead of the other way around. Remember that its harder to predict than react.

Try to read his playstyle harder. Search for simple things as the likes of airdodge, recovery, and spacing patterns. Check yourself that know what will beat what in different situations that you may disturb his momentum, mess with his head, and possibly disturb his playstyle by setting doubt in his mind.

Otherwise, you da bess! :D
 
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