[VIC] BAM6 announced, May 9-11 2014! Congrats to Dekar, SD and Shaya!

[Jamwa]

there are no doubles pools
we have never done pools for doubles
also if I'm TOing at all (and i probs will), i ain't making special arrangements and exceptions for ppl
we in the future now

attila, melee will use the same ruleset we've been going with since shadowloo
http://smashboards.com/threads/shad...feedback-please-next-major-santasmash.336752/
seems this is pretty standard now

So when is doubles

 

[Splice]

So when is doubles

at the time where it says "doubles pools" on the schedule. You should just leave after pools on the saturday since you have arrangements later, imo.

Are you really using 1 stock for Brawl Attila? The information in the OP can't be right.

 

[Luco]

Registering now cause last minute entries are the BEST.

I'll see you guys on Friday! :D

Is the CQ offering a discount like last time?

 

[Attila_]

Doubles starts at 7. It isn't pools, it's straight bracket (schedule is a misprint). @ Jamwa : we'll try to accomodate you, but really can't promise anything. It's a packed day. A lot will depend on how cooperative everyone is.

Brawl will be running one stock. This is partly due to timing issues, but also as a means to fit in better with the global fgc. I requested feedback about this ruleset after the last tourney, and mostly received positive feedback (although total feedback numbers were incredibly low). So if you didn't raise it as an issue before, you sure as hell can't pretend to care now.

Not sure about the CQ discount; haven't heard from anyone staying there. Can follow it up though.

@ S.D : From a parking point of view, after dropping off any equipment, i normally park on victoria parade. iirc free parking after 7 on Friday, and it was free all weekend last year. Not sure if that's the same now, though.

 

[Hughie]

https://www.facebook.com/events/683528228336404/permalink/695017490520811/?stream_ref=2
@ Luco I think they're the discounts.

 

[Jei Jei]

The 1 stock thing was a trial though. For monthlies...a major shouldn't be changed completely because of one thing we tried once that worked okay.
We can continue to trial it in future tournaments that don't really matter but we should really stick to the norm for something with interstaters and an extra day to finish everything.

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

So those melee rules... no bans in Bo5 and Bo3?

no wait i saw it

sadface

 

[Dekar289]

to clarify for others
bans in bo3
no bans in bo5

 

[Luco]

Do we sort out who we're teaming with at the venue or do we need to let peeps know beforehand? I'll be teaming with my brother, it looks like.

 

[Dekar289]

at past BAM events, teams partners (whether you have a planned team or need a teammate on the day) are confirmed and sorted out on the day of the event, at the venue

 

[Splice]

Brawl will be running one stock. This is partly due to timing issues, but also as a means to fit in better with the global fgc. I requested feedback about this ruleset after the last tourney, and mostly received positive feedback (although total feedback numbers were incredibly low). So if you didn't raise it as an issue before, you sure as hell can't pretend to care now..

Well personally I prefer that it is one stock; I am already concerned we're gonna have trouble with the schedule and it adds incentive to me to enter Brawl since it will take less time and I feel like I can play more aggressively.
I am just a little concerned for how fulfilling the experience will be for others (who care about the game more than me and they may be travelling).
I have no problem with the current ruleset, still, however I was not aware that it was on the cards as a possibility for the major. This may be the case for others, so people may raise it as an issue and I think that's fair enough for them.

Thanks for the informative post answering peoples questions, it was much needed.

We need a 7th Melee stage so we can have bans in our Bo5s. No ban Bo5 is awkward.
@Sebby / Attila / Top OoS player? : Need a doubles partner for Bwarl?

 

[Basty]

Welp, I am not coming this year. I hope u guys have fun and I will be watching the stream!
Hoping I can come to BAM7 next year and maybe, just maybe Shadowloo later this year, do we know the date for Shadowloo yet?

 

[DD_]

Welp, I am not coming this year. I hope u guys have fun and I will be watching the stream!
Hoping I can come to BAM7 next year and maybe, just maybe Shadowloo later this year, do we know the date for Shadowloo yet?

Yep! Shadowloo Showdown V - August 29th - 31st, 2014

 

[TakFR]

But also as a means to fit in better with the global fgc.

Please don't start doing stuff like this for that reason Attila, if it helps with timing concerns sure but smash is not a traditional 2d fighter. The majority of the fgc will never see it as a proper fighting game anyway, I can say that with confidence having been in and around the FGC for longer than pretty much everyone else here (excluding Plasia of course), I can give lots of examples of trying to play another fighter with people in the FGC who know I play melee and how they react/behave towards me for that reason alone.

We don't need to change our game to suit a community that for the majority won't accept us anyway

 

[Nido]

Prereg closes really soon. geez, that snuck up.

Also, can I get the melee and PM rulesets please?

From the Apex website. Also who is TOing PM?

Project M 3.0 Rulest



* 4 stock, 8 minutes.

* Sets are best of 3. Finals are best of 5.

* Items set to “off” and “none.”



* Either player may call for a Double Blind character selection for the first match.

* Dave’s Stupid Rule: A player may not counterpick any stage he won on in a set.



* Controller port is determined by Rock Paper Scissors if it can’t be agreed upon. For doubles, the controller ports must be 1-2-2-1.

* For doubles, Team Attack is on and life stealing is allowed. Remember that Attack+Special, not the Pause button, is used to steal lives.

* Pausing during a match, unless okayed by the other player, will result in the loss of one stock for the pauser.

* Quitting out of a match before it is over will result in a loss for the quitter.



* If time runs out, the person with the most stock left (or least % if they are equal) wins. If the % is equal as well, play a 1 stock 3 minute match, same characters and stage.

* If the match goes to sudden death due to a suicide move (Ganon’s side-B, Kirby/DDD’s swallow, holding someone in a grab on a platform as it moves out of the boundaries, etc.), the one who initiated the move wins.



* Buffer set to off.

* Custom controls are allowed, but controllers modified to enhance performance are not. No turbo buttons, etc. However, removing the springs from shoulder buttons or replacing a thumbstick with a different thumbstick are ok.

* Custom music is allowed as long as it’s not too distracting, but any textures or vertex hacks outside of the official team color textures are not.

* If you want to use your own SD card, a TO must overwrite the important game files (not music) in order to make sure there are no modifications. If you are caught cheating with modified game files, you will be immediately DQed without refund and banned from future events.

* In the event that the game crashes or the TV/Wii loses power in the middle of a match, that match will be restarted from the beginning with the same characters and stage. If a player uses a known glitch to intentionally crash the game or otherwise make it unfinishable, that player may be forced to forfeit the match or be DQed at the TO’s discretion.



* No excessive stalling (this includes abusing Jiggs’ Rising Pound and Mario’s Up-B Walljump)

* No coaching during a match. Consulting someone between matches is allowed as long as it doesn’t hold up the next match.

* Both players may agree to any rule or stage outside the tournament ruleset.

* Giga Bowser is banned.



Stagelist:

For the 1st match, stage strike the starter list in 1-2-2-1 fashion. After each match, the winner of the previous match bans 3 stages (Players may counterpick a stage that they previously banned in the set, but may not counterpick a stage on which they won). The player who lost the previous match chooses a stage, then the player who won chooses their character, then the player who lost chooses their character.



Starters:

Battlefield

Final Destination

Smashville

Pokemon Stadium 2

Dreamland (64)

Fountain of Dreams

Yoshi’s Story (Melee) (singles only)

SSE: Jungle (doubles only)



Counterpicks:

Battlefield

Final Destination

Smashville

Pokemon Stadium 2

Dreamland (64)

Fountain of Dreams

Yoshi’s Story (Melee) (singles only)

SSE: Jungle (doubles only)

Yoshi’s Island (Brawl)

Pokemon Stadium 1

Lylat Cruise

Wario Ware

Green Hill Zone

Skyloft

Skyworld

When it comes to bans I think 3 bans for Bo3 and 1 or 2 bans for Bo5

 

[Attila_]

Please don't start doing stuff like this for that reason Attila, if it helps with timing concerns sure but smash is not a traditional 2d fighter. The majority of the fgc will never see it as a proper fighting game anyway, I can say that with confidence having been in and around the FGC for longer than pretty much everyone else here (excluding Plasia of course), I can give lots of examples of trying to play another fighter with people in the FGC who know I play melee and how they react/behave towards me for that reason alone.

We don't need to change our game to suit a community that for the majority won't accept us anyway

I'd like to think that that community IS starting to accept us. Melee has gifted the smash community with an opportunity to enter the FGC, but we may have to conform to a few rules if we want to stabilize. We need to ride this wave now; it might never come again.

And in regards to reasoning, there has been a really large amount of discussion regarding this ruleset on a international fb page for brawl TOs. This seems to be the best way forward at this point. Brawl suffered a lot post MLG announcements this year, and in order to get some of our own back, changes need to be made. This ruleset is the result of a long process of self reflection. The brawl community was looked down upon by the FGC and the melee community alike for it's campy nature, for slow paced games, and for time outs. This is an attempt by the global brawl community to improve the standing of our game. It isn't just me wanting to run things on time.

 

[Splice]

One issue with the 1 stock format (and the only thing that affects me; I prefer it in every other aspect) is the stagelist. Because we play larger sets, and we have only got 6 stages, there should not be any bans.

Melee has 6 stages and in a best of 5 there is no bans. Since with the 1 stock rule, even the smallest set is a best of 5, there should be no stage bans, and Dave's Stupid Rule should apply.
This makes sense since we're already giving a chance for characters who fare well on more stages to shine.
In the past IC's could counterpick you to FD or Battlefield, and the starter could be something favorable for them also. If we're playing a Bo5 and I am allowed to ban, I can ban FD every time, take the loss on Battlefield and even the starter, and play on a favorable stage 3/5 games. The modified DSR where you can't CP the last stage you won on is quite awkward because you can screw yourself over (e.g. if I let you pick Battlefield (or SV depending on my character) game 1 as IC's and I lose, then I ban FD everytime and you can't counterpick BF, in some match-ups you don't even have an IC's counterpick anymore since I let you play on it as the starter to lose on purpose).

Obviously though standard DSR does not work in a bo7 or bo9 when you only have 6 stages. Honestly I would opt for adding Halberd, Delfino and another CP (Castle Siege or something? i dont remember any other stages lol) but if this is not an option I think we should talk about this further because it's definitely awkward at the moment for the bo5's. Unless you're all cool for shifting the metagame/viability of some characters a bit, I guess.

Another thing you could do is use standard DSR for bo5's, and then modified DSR for bo7's and bo9's. That's the simplest fix but it leaves a little to be desired if you ask me. I'm sure no-one else will give a **** though

 

[Attila_]

I think modified DSR works on the principle each player had at least 3 stages that they are happy to play. If you can only win on two stages, then ruleset works against you.

I suppose it does promote diversity, although that wasn't my original intention. I rather just wanted to a way around a standard DSR, but didn't want to remove if completely.

 

[Dekar289]

I think modified DSR works on the principle each player had at least 3 stages that they are happy to play. If you can only win on two stages, then ruleset works against you.

that's it, the key point here is that one of the 3 stages each player is happy with is the same stage, probably the neutral that starts the set
so if worst comes to worst you may have to go back to the initial neutral stage as your best option, and that's fine

 

[Splice]

Yeah with the modified DSR you will probs end up back on the neutral stage, which is actually really good because you have to assume that it could've gone either way.

So to confirm the original ruleset;
Sets are a bo5, bo7 in semis and bo9 in finals
Modified DSR is in effect = You cannot counterpick to the last stage you just won on (in all sets; bo5, bo7, bo9)
The player who lost the last match gets 1 ban

 

[SurPr15e]

I just have a query about the ledge grab rule. How do people know if players have exceeded the limit and does it count if you grab the ledge while trying to recover from an attack. Also, does Melee have a ledge grab limit?

 

[Baron Omega]

Please don't start doing stuff like this for that reason Attila, if it helps with timing concerns sure but smash is not a traditional 2d fighter. The majority of the fgc will never see it as a proper fighting game anyway, I can say that with confidence having been in and around the FGC for longer than pretty much everyone else here (excluding Plasia of course), I can give lots of examples of trying to play another fighter with people in the FGC who know I play melee and how they react/behave towards me for that reason alone.

We don't need to change our game to suit a community that for the majority won't accept us anyway

Well look it is a major issue. For years other FGCs look down at most of us and especially in my home suburb they have been very descriminitive of smash as a whole. I get called nothing but someone who sucks at games just because i play smash competitively and i dont try to compete in other fighters as much as I (according to others) should. I think it has been great that a lot of the smash communities have come together from around the world to make the competitive community as it is. Like **** we have made smash become a EVO worthy game. I think as a whole I think all we need to do is kepping fighting for the respect that smash needs in the competitive community. If it means doing stuff like this for BAM 6 then Im ok with it as long as you dont start putting items on and competing in rumble falls. LOL

Trust me I too have been in a lot of tourneys and shadowloo for some of them and I see the reactions that I get when they hear that i play smash competitively

 

[Splice]

@ suprise: Yes it counts as grabbing the edge if you are recovering from an attack. You can count how many times you grab the edge, but if you just don't plank/stall on the edge it's quite unlikely you will exceed the limit.
There is no LGL for Melee, you are simply advised not to stall the match beyond a reasonable amount. If you regrab the edge like 6 times in a row while abusing ledge invulnerability, this is ok because that might be necessary to try to bait out something from the opponent.
If you do it for like 20 seconds then you are being a ****head and could get called out for stalling (at the TO's discretion), although other players would be loathe to have to seek TO guidance so you should really just avoid such a situation.

@Baron: Putting items on and competing on rumble falls would not make smash more similair to other fighting games so that is out of the question. It's also not terribly important what individual members of the FGC think about individual smash players (e.g. people saying that YOU suck at games), it's more an issue of the reputation that the game itself has in the eyes of the FGC in general. I definitely think there is essentially zero merit in modifying our rulesets and events to make them play more like other fighting games. However, if changing things in this way is better for our own community to move forward, then we shouldn't fear it.
I think the 1 stock format is a good move for Brawl.

 

[S.D]

SO whose house can i crash at or do I need to book a room?

AS for Brawl stagelist pretty much every match is SV anyway.

 

[TakFR]

I'm fine with making changes for the benefit of our community, it's only when we make changes that serve no other purpose than to look slightly better in the eyes for the Australian traditional FGC or changes that impact the scene negatively just to look more appealing to another community that to me seems stupid and will have pretty much no effect towards our image anyway.

 

[Jamwa]

I have a room to spare if there's too many at b0ss'
someone who's comfortable staying at mine can crash here to make room for others at b0ss' place

 

[Baron Omega]

@ suprise: Yes it counts as grabbing the edge if you are recovering from an attack. You can count how many times you grab the edge, but if you just don't plank/stall on the edge it's quite unlikely you will exceed the limit.
There is no LGL for Melee, you are simply advised not to stall the match beyond a reasonable amount. If you regrab the edge like 6 times in a row while abusing ledge invulnerability, this is ok because that might be necessary to try to bait out something from the opponent.
If you do it for like 20 seconds then you are being a ****head and could get called out for stalling (at the TO's discretion), although other players would be loathe to have to seek TO guidance so you should really just avoid such a situation.

@Baron: Putting items on and competing on rumble falls would not make smash more similair to other fighting games so that is out of the question. It's also not terribly important what individual members of the FGC think about individual smash players (e.g. people saying that YOU suck at games), it's more an issue of the reputation that the game itself has in the eyes of the FGC in general. I definitely think there is essentially zero merit in modifying our rulesets and events to make them play more like other fighting games. However, if changing things in this way is better for our own community to move forward, then we shouldn't fear it.
I think the 1 stock format is a good move for Brawl.

I understand that there too is the fact that the reputation is another reason y the FGC looks down upon smash competitors.(forgot to mention that in my first message) but yeh like I think it would be good for our community to work towards a higher respect for the game then what it has atm from the other fighter competitors.

 

[Dekar289]

this has nothing to do with 'smash in the eyes of the FGC', lol
even they understand that brawl is inferior and will be dead when the new smash comes out

melee will not be changing its ruleset to make it quicker or easier to understand for the more traditional FGC. if they can appreciate the complexity and creativity of melee, great. if they don't understand the game and write it off as party game crap, then sucks to be them

the best argument as mentioned earlier for this new brawl ruleset is that it's quicker (though perhaps still not as fast as melee...) and so it's much better for scheduling.
Also, the results of the recent 1 stock tournament weren't drastically shaken up with less experienced players riding to 5th on the back of suicide kills, so i'm all for it (TO bias?)

 

[Splice]

can we get more details about the stream? Like what twitch channel etc.
can we promote it on front page smashboards?

 

[Luco]

Sorry I wasn't part of this feedback system last year or I would have said a bit more (I dunno maybe we just missed it in all the chaos surrounding the event).

I don't really like the one-stock rule for a few reasons, namely that it messes around with our current perception of characters and how they would work (thinking ICs and Lucario here). The increased BO rules are a weird compensation too considering the previous line of argument.

In our rulesets, we haven't made changes to the rulesets in any of our tournaments to damage character viability outside of MK. This rule would damage several characters and I disagree with that because that damages Brawl as a game and that's not what we want to do if we want to make it more 'legitimate'.

Even if it was, I don't agree with the idea of us legitimising ourselves in the eyes of the FGC anyway. Aside from cynicals and naysayers, I don't think Brawl will ever really be accepted truly... and maybe we have to live with that. Those that continue to play Brawl are those that love the game for what it is. Why change it for people if it's really just hurting our own game's value for the people that are actually playing it? It's like a kid denying his own personality so that he can 'fit in' with all the other abusive kids on the block. It's just not worth it and I think we have to let our own light shine the way we want it to.

To be honest I didn't even realise this was happening (I was just skimming over stuff mostly) until just then, so my train of thought is kinda wacky but I don't like it in terms of how we currently play the game at all and I believe if we must implement the rule then we should at least ban infinites and CGs because they suddenly become a much bigger deal, even considering the larger BO rules. (lets be REALLY cynical here and assume a mistake means a grab - death against a competent ICs [which isn't necessarily true but everything is vamped up in scale regardless]. You had 6 big mess-ups or mistakes you had to make in the previous ruleset to lose against them on a non-semi or final match. With this ruleset, that would now be 3 in any normal set, 4 in semis and 5 in finals.)

Melee has 4 stocks. Brawl was already put to 3 for time issues but now people want it at 1. I think that's ridiculous. Our time limit is constrained but we've fit it in before and I don't think it's worth making this change. Nor do I agree with doing it to 'fit in'.

Again, sorry I didn't see this earlier or was there for it last year. Better voicing my concern now rather than never.

 

[Splice]

Ok well we'll be using 1 stock Brawl format for this event though.

You failed to address anything that really makes the 1 stock format an issue. The fact that we only use certain stages already damages several characters. As long as a decent pool of characters are able to compete the game can function, and anything that's a detriment to top tiers isn't really that bad. Specific rules for MK are subjective and far more messy than using 1 stock, yet you don't have a problem with those?
The increased matches played in the set allows the 1 stock format to be a little less punishing on making big mistakes and also means more different stages played which is a good thing. Sets will still take much less time, especially if one player wins all the games, then it's way faster than winning multiple 3 stock matches. It's not a weird compensation at all, it's a logical move.
Your analogies are bull**** also

 

[Tin Man]

Is anyone able to house some Canberra Melee players. We need housing for 3 atm, the rest of us are fine. All in all 7 of us are coming from Canberra and we're all very hyped for this!

 

[Splice]

Is anyone able to house some Canberra Melee players. We need housing for 3 atm, the rest of us are fine. All in all 7 of us are coming from Canberra and we're all very hyped for this!

who are all the players from ACT that are attending?

 

[SurPr15e]

@ Dekar289 I thought you would have said to the people that write Melee off as party game crap that they can go you-know-what, (insert whatever) themselves. That would tell them that we stick to tradition and that we don't care if it doesn't stick to their expectations. Melee has succeeded and thrived because of what we have done since the beginning. We stuck to the current ruleset we used since day 1 and look where it had gotten Melee, a place in EVO, MLG and CEO. That's what happens when you have faith, it gets you somewhere. I can sense that the smash revolution is coming this year. Look at every single fighting game like SF and MK. They all have the same elements and are basically clones of each other. Smash is different and unique and hardly has any clones of it (unless you count PSAS but that was a **** game and can't even come close to smash). Us as smashers spend time, commitment and dedication in honing our craft and we didn't care whether we were accepted by the FGC. We did what we did and what started small soon turned into one of the biggest things of all time. Also, Smash has lasted 15 years in tournies. Has any game like SF2 for instance last that long. AE2012 is being ditched for Ultra SF4 after 2 years. It just shows that they don't commit to one game that long. For Melee, we have been committed and that commitment lasted for 15 years. It doesn't matter if we are accepted by the FGC or not, what matters is that we still have fun, commitment and dedication to Smash and enjoy it for as long as we can.

 

[Splice]

any post that trash talks PSAS gets a like

 

[DD_]

Has any game like SF2 for instance last that long.

SF2 super turbo is still played across the world and on GGPO. It's going to be at EVO this year as well (For a second time in the last 3 years). K'mon I though you were a FGC Grand Master of knowledge.

 

[Hughie]

Is Brawl doubles 1 stock as well? Cause I find Brawl doubles really fun the way it is (3 stocks) and to me doesn't feel slow-paced like singles. I actually prefer it over Melee doubles.

 

[SurPr15e]

SF2 super turbo is still played across the world and on GGPO. It's going to be at EVO this year as well (For a second time in the last 3 years). K'mon I though you were a FGC Grand Master of knowledge.

Sorry, misinformed. Even the best of us make mistakes. But still, Smash is the best when it comes to dedication and commitment.

 

[Tin Man]

who are all the players from ACT that are attending?

Apples
DGH
Bogo
Ed32
Edward
Errol
Tin Man

 

[Attila_]

I've already addressed most of the comments regarding the reasoning for 1 stock; repeating myself is silly. But a few other things...

1. ICs are nerfed by this ruleset, not buffed. Realistically, an ICs biggest weakness is their approach game. If they get the first kill in a three stock match, then it should be game over. That's one game in a best of three finished. But in 1 stock games, they find themselves always having to approach, which actually puts them behind.
2. Lucario is nerfed. I apologize to the single lucario user in the country.
3. ZSS is only buffed if you're bad with items. Or an MK main. In which case, stfu anyway.
4. Squirtle <3

In other news, brawl doubles is 3 stock. It doesn't suffer the same issues as singles.

I think anyone who thinks not banding together with the FGC is a good thing is horribly misguided. Our scene is incredibly lazy in most ways; we've organized one tourney for ourselves in the last 8 months. And people think we can support ourselves? Not unless individuals start stepping up. srs

And @Tinman, I thought apollo wasn't coming...