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I would much prefer his grab getting fixed in terms of OoS options. Reduce the range slightly and make it 6-7 frames. As I said I don't know if Nair would even hit anyone on the way up from a short hop unless the startup was really low. I know Bair doesn't and that's frame 5. Don't get me wrong, if they buff Nair's startup that's cool but there are other things that would benefit Greninja more without making him OP.
Ike's tilts are really good. U-tilt is basically his normal U-smash while his actual U-smash is his 'input smash attack' (14% omg). F-tilt keeps people away. D-tilt is a combo tool...
Probably Toon Links favor or at best even for Luigi. He can't punish landings for his life and has big troubles landing any hit.
Due to a multitude of reasons these can or can not be considered:
Explain.
Can you also elaborate a bit further, it sounds to me like you just argued Luigi doesn't get punished for Toon Link's landing. I don't see how catching a bomb or shielding boomerang / arrow punishes Toon Link quite yet; besides, I'm sure there's more to the bombs, like Z dropping one and following it closely to punish your catch or zdrop/downthrowing them between Luigi and where TL wants to land.
Yeah Ike's tilts are pretty bonkers. Dtilt confirms Fairs for loads of damage (and it's fast as hell), ftilt has some godly disjointed range, and Utilt kills way earlier than it looks and covers ledge options really well. I do think he has the best set of tilts in the game, followed closely by Pikachu, DK, Falco, and Link in that order.mobility specs are pretty good.
His short hop air dodge is incredibly low to the ground + he can still act out before landing.
His full hop retreating aerials auto cancel / end before landing and are a lot harder to punish.
His grab game (i.e. down throw) is pretty solid, at worse you get up-b, at best you get 9s, up air at kill percent or buckets. In other words, stupid.
Dash to shield and his fox trot lengths are pretty solid. He also has an [near?] instant crouch animation.
Majority of his moves are disjointed, however many have sizable hurtbox extensions.
Nigh ungimpable recovery, will kill most characters for trying and can use those abilities to intercept recoveries for stocks in the opposing situation too.
Dash attack, dash grab, jab and now down tilt are all pretty solid ground moves, more than most characters have to play with (in fact it's virtually the same as Meta Knight, G&W just doesn't get the same consistent rewards as he does).
If he was more than featherweight he (common theme) would be kinda top/high tier. He can't really force kills yet he has a small list of very potent kill set ups. Him going for them would usually be a 50:50 for a lot of characters in getting punished but are worth still going for a lot of the time, in G&W's case him trading or losing the 50:50 tends to be too caustic to his success as he can't afford to make many, his disadvantage and difficulty of being combo'd isn't inherently amazing, his aerials are bad anti-juggles, and his up-b only helps on platformed stages or against those being over zealous in their follow up attempts.
If you have balls of fury and can take the heat in the proverbial kitchen of characters having kill throws outright or as confirms or fast long range moves that can kill him at sub 100% you can win [at] large regionals maybe even nationals with him.
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I think he isn't looking to have fantastic top tier match ups across the board (imo he could be dangerous for Mario, Luigi, Ness and maybe Sonic/Rosa/Pika), but I really don't know what's left for them to buff on Ike if anything other than his specials or end lag on smash attacks (which would be silly). Up Tilt now covers everything around him and reminds me of DA POWER of Snake [hitbox lasts for 3 more frames of his animation!!!]. And between that and his buffed forward and down tilt I wonder if there's any other character in the game with an argument for a better set of tilts... Falco maybe? Pikachu? DK? like... they're really fricken good.
Either way, Brawl Ike-level WiFi domination guaranteed.
I mean, going by that, you can pretty much invalidate every character because you can shield their hitboxes.
Nah. Boomerangs and arrows are like 20+ more frames.
Catching a bomb means you can now throw it to TL, which effectively 'punishing' him. Shielding the boomerangs/arrows don't punish TL directly, apologize for that. I often have troubles with retreating boomerangs and I dunno why I put that.
He does not want walls of projectiles, but that doesn't mean he insta-loses or he can't get around.
Dtilt is very good. Ftilt and utilt are situational, but decent. Pretty much
There are some upsides, though: it's harder to pressure their shields into breaking due to them sliding away from further immediate assault. This helps Mewtwo get space back under pressure (via short-hop airdodge) even if he can't immediately retaliate.you forgot traction. its why
People are picking him up for the wrong reason, Zex is using MK to 'counter' Sheik which i strongly disagree with. Here's how i think MK does against the relevant characters Shaya put on the first page, take it with a grain of salt tho(other than Rosalina and ZSS).
I swear to God SRK is free as ****. Fox basically lost his stock at 58%.
Well, what do you think of the MU?
characters with low differentials tend to have really good tilts for spacing it seemsSomeone posted this in the Falco boards... Thanks, developers... Ryu's walking speed is between Lucas and Ganondorf's and Roy's running speed is between Charizard and Meta Knight's, so they have fairly noticeable differences. Geez, Sonic runs more than twice as fast than walking and Captain Falcon almost twice as fast. So, speed matters not in a sense of Sonic being the fastest, therefore, Sonic is the best character, but more like Sonic having noticeable speed difference matters as he can change gears "better". It's like Sonic goes from 5th gear and cruising while walking, but downshifts to 2nd gear to accelerate while running since he can't accelerate as quickly from 5th. Falco's more like going from 6th to 5th gear to accelerate or hell, he's probably accelerating at 6th gear while driving uphill. Idiot pilot.
I don't know if there's one with air speed as another variable. I mean, Wolf's running, walking, and air speed were barely different. That's not bad; that means Wolf is pretty much mobile all around with air speed being the most notable. If his air speed was ported right over to Smash 4, it would be above Wario's and maybe equal to Roy's air speed. It's when you're slow on the ground with barely any differences between your walking and running speed and your air speed is even slower that it's a problem. For Link it's kind of a problem, but Link has usable projectiles, durability, and fairly quick disjoints compared to Falco whose most useful "projectile" is Reflector, he's more or less a glass cannon considering his kill potential, and he doesn't have safe disjoints other than Dtilt while Blaster, Reflector, and landing Fair are risky because of their end lag or landing lag in Fair's case.
Mfw Donkey Kong is faster than MarioSomeone posted this in the Falco boards... Thanks, developers... Ryu's walking speed is between Lucas and Ganondorf's and Roy's running speed is between Charizard and Meta Knight's, so they have fairly noticeable differences. Geez, Sonic runs more than twice as fast than walking and Captain Falcon almost twice as fast. So, speed matters not in a sense of Sonic being the fastest, therefore, Sonic is the best character, but more like Sonic having noticeable speed difference matters as he can change gears "better". It's like Sonic goes from 5th gear and cruising while walking, but downshifts to 2nd gear to accelerate while running since he can't accelerate as quickly from 5th. Falco's more like going from 6th to 5th gear to accelerate or hell, he's probably accelerating at 6th gear while driving uphill. Idiot pilot.
I don't know if there's one with air speed as another variable. I mean, Wolf's running, walking, and air speed were barely different. That's not bad; that means Wolf is pretty much mobile all around with air speed being the most notable. If his air speed was ported right over to Smash 4, it would be above Wario's and maybe equal to Roy's air speed. It's when you're slow on the ground with barely any differences between your walking and running speed and your air speed is even slower that it's a problem. For Link it's kind of a problem, but Link has usable projectiles, durability, and fairly quick disjoints compared to Falco whose most useful "projectile" is Reflector, he's more or less a glass cannon considering his kill potential, and he doesn't have safe disjoints other than Dtilt while Blaster, Reflector, and landing Fair are risky because of their end lag or landing lag in Fair's case.
Wait. He was unviable before?
I could say something similar about many characters. With time, people will eventually explore them.
When was
ever "better than we thought"? Did I miss some breakthrough that shot him out of the mii-legal trash heap?
idk man. Lets shift gears a bit and talk about Roy just to prove a point. When a friend of mine asked NEO on facebook who he mains, he said I main Sheik and secondary Lucina. And I know NEO has been playing Roy since he dropped. That says alot to me that the man that made Roy in Melee would rather play Lucina, a worse Marth over Roy. And ALOT of people were hype for Roy and you can't say he is under explored. I know people have been repping him hard. But hes not getting results far as I know. And he is def not harder to play then CF who does have a strong local presence.
Roy is worse than Marth. Trela results with mewtwo are pretty limited. Considering he stopped using him. Otger than trela Eblemlord and SoludSense has won locals with ryu.
Emblem Lord
I think we got to the same local. Would love to get bodied by your Ryu.
Roy is like Mewtwo. He will die off.
Na there's nothing Roy actually has over Marth. With the latest buffs Marth got he's a lot better than before. As Emblem Lord said what MU would you want Roy instead of Marth?
......
Pretty much Swordfighter was considered the worst character in smash 4 after the mewtwo patch Swordfighter gained massive buffs that made him not the worst character in smash but no one really noticed until Trela won a bunch of Locals as APEX Swordfighter making him temporarily relevantWhen was
Sheik? I have heard she has F3 N-air but it doesn't break combos at all.
If he doesn't have bombs, Fireballs are safe, and bombs take a while to pull out.
