Official Viability Ratings v2 | Competitive Impressions

[Rizen]

When I play G&W, I assume Mewtwo suffers from this too, his light weight really lowers his value. He has good combos, air game, etc but I have to deal twice as much damage as the opponent to KO. I'll be fighting Peach, she's at 140% taking tilts and Fairs and living then she Fair/Fsmashes me at 90% and I die. G&W also has problems killing. I think a good way to buff G&W and especially Mewtwo would be increase their weight. Mewtwo being lighter than G&W is ridiculous. The weight factor means they have to deal proportionately more damage to keep up.

PS
Peach's Fair is stupid

 

[Emblem Lord]

Doc has one relevant landing option vs. Mario in a matchup at the top level even though he ultimately performs worse (in this specific matchup). This is just the most notable example, not the ONLY one perse

Side-B is much better at landing vs. Needles than Mario's is =V

Also I think Roy's recovery IS one of the worst because he lacks a truly meaningful mixup that stalls him or lets him change the linearity of his angle. Essentially while the timing is varied, his recovery angle is a bit on the....predictable side.

It's by no means unusable though.

Roy's recovery has no invincibility. Challenge him. Every..damn...TIME!!

 

[Y2Kay]

Charizard: 195.5 lbs ( or 90.5 kilograms for our European friends!)

Mewtwo: 269 lbs (or 122 kilograms)

Why do I even, Sakurai?!

 

[meleebrawler]

When I play G&W, I assume Mewtwo suffers from this too, his light weight really lowers his value. He has good combos, air game, etc but I have to deal twice as much damage as the opponent to KO. I'll be fighting Peach, she's at 140% taking tilts and Fairs and living then she Fair/Fsmashes me at 90% and I die. G&W also has problems killing. I think a good way to buff G&W and especially Mewtwo would be increase their weight. Mewtwo being lighter than G&W is ridiculous. The weight factor means they have to deal proportionately more damage to keep up.

PS
Peach's Fair is stupid

I think what people need to ask when playing as Mewtwo is not "how can I deal more damage or kill faster", but "how can I deal damage without getting hit?". In Peach's case, you answer her fair and her floating with your bair that has even more stupid range (just not for hitting ground targets), throw a shadow ball straight at her or just run away to charge some more since she doesn't move too fast.

Charizard: 195.5 lbs ( or 90.5 kilograms for our European friends!)

Mewtwo: 269 lbs (or 122 kilograms)

Why do I even, Sakurai?!

Can we please stop bringing up the freakin' Pokedex descriptions? I thought it was already settled that Mewtwo gets sent flying more easily because his psychic powers induce anti-gravity, like how Rosalina is a heavyweight in kart-racing games but is light in Smash due to space magic.

 

[Emblem Lord]

The thing with Zelda / Puff / every other perceived "bottom-tier" is, somebody has to be on the bottom. It doesn't matter how good, bad or indifferent they are, unless you balance the game to be absolutely equal in every possible context, there will have to be somebody that's perceived as weaker than everybody else. Even PM, a game with relatively strong 1v1 balance, has its bottom-tiers. They might be damn good bottom-tiers relative to every other Smash's roster, and probably more than capable of holding their own with most of the roster in, say, Brawl, but they're still the weakest character(s) in the game and therefore must be the worst.

People need to stop treating bottom-tier as some kind of inescapable prison of absolute non-viability or a terrible curse that brings only shame and ignominy. It's inevitable, somebody has to be down there, even if it's just because they're not as objectively good as everybody else. If that character happens to be your main, then that's just the fall of the dice. Trying to demonstrate why your main is better than perceived is fine, but trying to convince others that "this character is mid-tier, you just don't get their true potential" does nothing. It's a platitude. It does not yield productive discussion. If your character is the worst, it doesn't make them objectively bad or fundamentally unserviceable, it just means they're not of the same distinction as other, higher-tier characters.

If you really want to prove your character is good, don't vent your frustrations typing this in-depth theoretical treatise on an internet forum, go out and do something with them. If you really believe in what you say and you're willing to defend your beliefs in front of the whole world, then pick up that controller, get to training and make something of the character. Hungrybox made people take Jigglypuff seriously in Melee. Nairo demonstrated that Doc, in the hands of a skilled player, has viable opportunities. You probably won't be either of these players, at least not immediately, but you might make waves in your immediate scene or beyond. It's a damn sight more productive than citing theory and results that don't mean anything to anyone, trust me.

Holy crap.

Adding this post to the fap bank

 

[Y2Kay]

Can we please stop bringing up the freakin' Pokedex descriptions? I thought it was already settled that Mewtwo gets sent flying more easily because his psychic powers induce anti-gravity, like how Rosalina is a heavyweight in kart-racing games but is light in Smash due to space magic.

The only canon explanation is that....he floats. So apparantly floating like, two inches off the ground means you're that much lighter?

But wait, there's more! Greninja and Ness/Lucas have the same weight, but greninja weights 88.2 pounds(40 kg)? I was never that heavy 10 year's old, not to mention their really short. Pikachu weights about 13 pounds (6 kg), but how is that the same weight as fox? He's kinda short, and he is legs maybe made of a super light metal, but I'm not buying that he's the weight of chubby newborn

 

[Wintermelon43]

The only canon explanation is that....he floats. So apparantly floating like, two inches off the ground means you're that much lighter?

But wait, there's more! Greninja and Ness/Lucas have the same weight, but greninja weights 88.2 pounds(40 kg)? I was never that heavy 10 year's old, not to mention their really short. Pikachu weights about 13 pounds (6 kg), but how is that the same weight as fox? He's kinda short, and he is legs maybe made of a super light metal, but I'm not buying that he's the weight of chubby newborn

Dude Ness is 13 and Lucas is 12

 

[Rizen]

I'm going to toss my opinions about the characters I use out. It's based on limited experience so please comment or disagree if I get stuff wrong:

Zelda: bottom 5. She can win like every character but I feel her tools are weak and limited. She is better if she doesn't have to approach and can kill early but aside from those she struggles more than most characters.

Charizard: bottom 10-15. Char has great rage benefits and his throw buffs really helped. His problem seems to be how limited he is. Char has a good dash speed but extends his hurtbox forward and is large. Char's air speed is terrible so air approaches (air anything) is greatly hindered forcing a ground movement game. Char has flame thrower and rock smash to cover himself but both are easy to get around and predictable.

Ganon: bottom 10. Yes his reward is fantastic, easily enough to keep him above the bottom 5 area, but he also gets shut down hard. If the opponent doesn't make mistakes he is constantly at a disadvantage. He's big with terrible ground and air speed. Ganon's recovery really limits him too. His heavy weight is partially negated by the abysmal distance.

Bowser: bottom 15. IDK, he seems good at times with good OoS, range, grabs etc but other times he feels extremely shut down. I think his movement speed sets him slightly above Ganon but not much.

G&W: bottom 15. He's too much glass, too little cannon. What I said in the previous post:

When I play G&W, his light weight really lowers his value. He has good combos, air game, etc but I have to deal twice as much damage as the opponent to KO. I'll be fighting Peach, she's at 140% taking tilts and Fairs and living then she Fair/Fsmashes me at 90% and I die. G&W also has problems killing. The weight factor means he has to deal proportionately more damage to keep up.

Ike: IDK, upper mid tier maybe. I suck with Ike but he is a good character. Good zoning, power, CQC with his jab (something other heave hitters often lack), and recovery. It seems like Ike doesn't have any glaring weaknesses.

Link: bottom 25-15. Link got a nice buff from the new shield system and is much safer. He has throw combos, kill setups, zoning tools etc but they are harder to use than better characters'. He really has to work for his wins and lacks consistent tactics. He is great at improvising and never gets completely shut down but often is at a disadvantage. Link hits hard enough to end stocks early and has great edge guarding so he partially makes up for relying on reads with reward. He weights a ton and can take a lot of damage too. Unfortunately he also is a combo magnet with a slow CQC (frame 7 jab, 12 grab) and bad OoS options so he takes a lot of damage.
Someone said Link and Ganon are noob breakers. I agree with that. The can really frustrate worse opponents but sink at higher levels of play.

 

[Ghostbone]

The only canon explanation is that....he floats. So apparantly floating like, two inches off the ground means you're that much lighter?

But wait, there's more! Greninja and Ness/Lucas have the same weight, but greninja weights 88.2 pounds(40 kg)? I was never that heavy 10 year's old, not to mention their really short. Pikachu weights about 13 pounds (6 kg), but how is that the same weight as fox? He's kinda short, and he is legs maybe made of a super light metal, but I'm not buying that he's the weight of chubby newborn

Yea and Olimar is like an inch high and Bowser is like 10x the height of Mario depending on the game.

Smash doesn't need to match character's original games.


Also G&W is easily in the top half of the cast, you don't get top 32 at EVO with an awful character. Dash attack is incredible, his throw combos are really good, his recovery is broken, d-smash is pretty good, d-throw > uair kills super well, and his frame is very small.

 

[Tri Knight]

The only canon explanation is that....he floats. So apparantly floating like, two inches off the ground means you're that much lighter?

But wait, there's more! Greninja and Ness/Lucas have the same weight, but greninja weights 88.2 pounds(40 kg)? I was never that heavy 10 year's old, not to mention their really short. Pikachu weights about 13 pounds (6 kg), but how is that the same weight as fox? He's kinda short, and he is legs maybe made of a super light metal, but I'm not buying that he's the weight of chubby newborn

Adult Foxes can weigh from 6.5 pounds to 24 pounds
http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/mammals/red-fox/

And Pikachu has the body of a chubby newborn.

 

[Trifroze]

Mewtwo is obviously using all his psychic powers to handicap himself, that's also why he has to use his tail for attacking !

His damage per hit however is anything but low. It's among the highest in the game especially in the attacks that he actually uses, and not a part of his problems. How can anyone claim he has low damage, even for his frame data, when the numbers are right there? His flaws are his bad survivability and lack of disjoints that he should possess if his design made any sense aside from a few moves. His mid-air jump is also terrible of course.

Shadow ball + confusion is an amazing combination for forcing approaches and actions instead of having to take the initiative yourself, mid range is dangerous for the opponent because of Mewtwo's mobility combined with dash grab (which is ultimately a decent dash grab) and dash attack, and he also has some CQC options in dtilt, nair/fair OoS, usmash OoS and jab to grab. Fair and dsmash are safe kill options, kill throws are also of course relatively safe, SB is SB, and he has a good meteor for bad recoveries. Meteors are not some minor gimmicky thing, they're an important tool to make otherwise relatively unrewarding situations guaranteed kills versus characters like Fox and Ike, and (more or less) likely kills against characters such as Rosalina, Ness, Falcon, ROB, Luigi, Lucario and DK.

Mewtwo isn't a good character but he's not (dead) bottom, and like said, even the bottom doesn't mean terrible in this game. Just let's not lose sight of where his weaknesses actually lie and claim his strengths don't exist.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

No, jigglypuff's airspeed isn't best but it's far better than luigi's, kirby's and D3's. Jigglypuff isn't bad at anything she's isn't in melee. Melee jigglypuff had setups into rest. That's the ONLY difference between the two. Both Jiggs spam back air but sm4sh jigglypuff has to work harder to edgeguard. Jigglypuff can still edgeguard a huge chunk of the cast in sm4sh you just need to put in more effort. You acting like Jiggs was nerfed big time like Brawl MY to smash 4 MK but the reality is jigglypuff plays nearly the same as she did in melee

No she doesn't. You don't understand that Melee and Smash 4 are two different games. Melee is an aggressive game where a puff player can play defensive and it's more effective. In a defensive game, puff can't go defensive with the same results.

Her airspeed not being the best, but being better than X is not a good statement. In Melee no characters were even fairly close to her airspeed, so she was the best in that aspect.

I can't say this more than once. MELEE RECOVERIES ARE WORSE ABD EASIER TO GIMP. You heard me right, they don't have as much distance and they are easier to be hit out of. This gives Puff an advantage because her low-risk edge-guarding worked a lot. In smash 4 you will get less results offstage for the simple fact that recoveries are better.

Puff's b-air in Melee was good, but in smash 4 it's not. You will not get the same results using puff's b-air like you do in Melee.

A perfect example of not being good, but being practically unchanged is Project M. Before you come slay me for mentioning a mod let me make my point.

Puff is practically unchanged from Melee to PM, but PM's better recoveries, more diverse (and more sword) characters, and how every character is good in some way REALLY crippled her, to the point of being one of the worst in the game.

Puff 'playing the same' doesn't matter in Smash 4. She already got a massive nerf from Melee, but the game's nature also NERFED her. You can't argue she is good because she plays like Melee because you are wrong.

 

[Y2Kay]

Adult Foxes can weigh from 6.5 pounds to 24 pounds
http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/mammals/red-fox/

Are any of thos anthropomorphic fighter pilot Foxes?

 

[Tri Knight]

Are any of thos anthropomorphic fighter pilot Foxes?

I'll Google that one but that might be a tough find. Ill get back to you on that.

 

[Routa]

I'll Google that one but that might be a tough find. Ill get back to you on that.

Remember to put safe search on... I once forgot.

 

[Rashyboy05]

The only canon explanation is that....he floats. So apparantly floating like, two inches off the ground means you're that much lighter?

But wait, there's more! Greninja and Ness/Lucas have the same weight, but greninja weights 88.2 pounds(40 kg)? I was never that heavy 10 year's old, not to mention their really short. Pikachu weights about 13 pounds (6 kg), but how is that the same weight as fox? He's kinda short, and he is legs maybe made of a super light metal, but I'm not buying that he's the weight of chubby newborn

Are you seriously trying to put logic into a video game? A game where you can use Mario to beat up Peach even though he canonically won't be willing to hurt Peach? Or a game where Zelda can team up with Ganondorf?

Off topic. How does Mii Gunner fair against the percieved high and top tiers? I can see her having rough MUs against ZSS, Shiek and Rosalina but how does she fair against the other high/top tiers like Ryu, Capt. Falcon or Ike?
Note that I'm talking about Gunner being able to use her other moves as 1111 Gunner easily has losing MUs against almost all of the high/top tiers.

 

[Trifroze]

Weight decisions only make sense in this game when it doesn't get in the way of balance. If it gets in the way, it will be compromised and that's enough of a reason to do it. Balance comes first, then canon, it doesn't have to make logical or canonical sense and this isn't really a place to ponder about that.

 

[Routa]

Hmm... I guess Gunners best MU against top tier could be against Ike. Not sure about Guest 1111, but with things like Granade and Bomb Drop could pretty much destroy Ike's approach game and recovery. I presume his is Fair is also very great walling too against Ike, but then again I don't know much about Gunner.

 

[Y2Kay]

Are you seriously trying to put logic into a video game? A game where you can use Mario to beat up Peach even though he canonically won't be willing to hurt Peach? Or a game where Zelda can team up with Ganondorf?

I am fully aware this game doesn't follow logic. I was just pointing out how the canon contradicted itself. It was really for the Lawlz, but yeah, this game makes no sense. I mean jumping on air already doesn't make sense. We could definitely make an entire book about all the stuff that makes little sense. I only started this because Mewtwo's big flaw doesn't even matche his game's already ridiculous canon.

EDIT: I spelled "sense" wrong three times in a row, what is wrong with me?

 

[Kaladin]

Iceninja's default Pale Tuna is currently in top 6 at a stacked Canadian national.

...Huh.

 

[Mario766]

Hmm... I guess Gunners best MU against top tier could be against Ike. Not sure about Guest 1111, but with things like Granade and Bomb Drop could pretty much destroy Ike's approach game and recovery. I presume his is Fair is also very great walling too against Ike, but then again I don't know much about Gunner.

They annoy the Ike but once Ike gets in it isn't fun for Gunner.

I haven't played the MU since 1.0.0 and it was any move set Gunner at that.

stacked Canadian national? Meh.

It's Canada. Chrim Foish lost 2-0 to San early and is doing a losers run but unless you're losing to Ally/Holy you're not doing things right.

Also Canada Cup's seeding is atrocious.

 

[san.]

Gunner loses to Ike because of lot of her kit gets nullified by hitboxes. Even well placed projectiles Ike can just power shield or attack through with his fair/bair/uair/dash attack. Gunner relies on the lingering projectiles for walling. Ike will also survive to a very high %. Despite that, Ike hates Gunner's fair and range. 6:4 for Ike at top level. If there is a skill difference, Gunner can win easily.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

They annoy the Ike but once Ike gets in it isn't fun for Gunner.

I haven't played the MU since 1.0.0 and it was any move set Gunner at that.

stacked Canadian national? Meh.

It's Canada. Chrim Foish lost 2-0 to San early and is doing a losers run but unless you're losing to Ally/Holy you're not doing things right.

Also Canada Cup's seeding is atrocious.

Well Chrim is only what, 4th or 5th on the PR? Don't expect him to win, count on the top 3.

 

[Mario766]

Well Chrim is only what, 4th or 5th on the PR? Don't expect him to win, count on the top 3.

I wasn't. It was just an example. All of Canada's PR is out besides Yoh who is in a very close set with Holy.

It's also why I said seeding is atrocious. Poke is 1st on Canada's PR in Ontario and hasn't done anything in tournaments. He also got a really good seed and lost early.

 

[Djmarcus44]

Gunner loses to Ike because of lot of her kit gets nullified by hitboxes. Even well placed projectiles Ike can just power shield or attack through with his fair/bair/uair/dash attack. Gunner relies on the lingering projectiles for walling. Ike will also survive to a very high %. Despite that, Ike hates Gunner's fair and range. 6:4 for Ike at top level. If there is a skill difference, Gunner can win easily.

Is the matchup ratio the same with 1111? I know that the default moveset has more priority and killing power than 3312. I'm just not sure because I usually beat Ikes with more skill than me, but I have not faced any top level Ikes. I also noticed that there are other Gunners who think that Gunner wins that matchup.

 

[san.]

Is the matchup ratio the same with 1111? I know that the default moveset has more priority and killing power than 3312. I'm just not sure because I usually beat Ikes with more skill than me, but I have not faced any top level Ikes. I also noticed that there are other Gunners who think that Gunner wins that matchup.

With charge shot, Gunner may have a lot better time admittedly. I don't think 1111 has better kill power. It probably has worse since you don't have bomb drop or missile, or even cannon uppercut if you feel like it. This is from my experience playing against Gunners and as Gunner vs. Ike. Maybe a charge shot spec is a lot closer to even if the gunner is defensive.

 

[Illuminose]

Poke is 1st on Canada's PR in Ontario and hasn't done anything in tournaments.

Calling bs. He has victories over Ally, Mew2King, NAKAT, and Holy.

 

[Mario766]

Calling bs. He has victories over Ally, Mew2King, NAKAT, and Holy.

Recently.

 

[LancerStaff]

Another slow day eh?

So let's say there's a move that's -10 on shield, has range like Sheik's Fair, and can't be perfect shielded. How good is it? Too good?

 

[Jams.]

I wasn't. It was just an example. All of Canada's PR is out besides Yoh who is in a very close set with Holy.

It's also why I said seeding is atrocious. Poke is 1st on Canada's PR in Ontario and hasn't done anything in tournaments. He also got a really good seed and lost early.

Please don't take Ontario's PR and call it "Canada's PR." X_X
Ally, Holy, and Kels are all from Canada. This event has very little representation from the US.

Iceninja's performance really shouldn't be written off on bad seeding or "Canada is bad." He's had consistent performances recently and taken sets off Holy and Poke. He also took Holy to game 5 at this event. Based on these events, Palutena probably has some winnable matchups amongst the high/top tiers. Why is "Canada is bad" even an argument again? ON is not the strongest region, but that doesn't mean their best players do not represent high level gameplay.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Another slow day eh?

So let's say there's a move that's -10 on shield, has range like Sheik's Fair, and can't be perfect shielded. How good is it? Too good?

It depends. What's its frame data?

 

[Mario766]

Another slow day eh?

So let's say there's a move that's -10 on shield, has range like Sheik's Fair, and can't be perfect shielded. How good is it? Too good?

-10 after shield drop or before?

If you want a Canadian PR, make one for Canada. Until then all we know is outside of national threats Canada is rather free.

 

[Smog Frog]

is it grounded? aerial? how long does it take to start up? does it kill? how much damage? is it mostly horizontal or mostly vertical? can i combo into it/out of it?

there's ALOT that can make a move good or bad.

 

[meleebrawler]

Mewtwo is obviously using all his psychic powers to handicap himself, that's also why he has to use his tail for attacking !

His damage per hit however is anything but low. It's among the highest in the game especially in the attacks that he actually uses, and not a part of his problems. How can anyone claim he has low damage, even for his frame data, when the numbers are right there? His flaws are his bad survivability and lack of disjoints that he should possess if his design made any sense aside from a few moves. His mid-air jump is also terrible of course.

Shadow ball + confusion is an amazing combination for forcing approaches and actions instead of having to take the initiative yourself, mid range is dangerous for the opponent because of Mewtwo's mobility combined with dash grab (which is ultimately a decent dash grab) and dash attack, and he also has some CQC options in dtilt, nair/fair OoS, usmash OoS and jab to grab. Fair and dsmash are safe kill options, kill throws are also of course relatively safe, SB is SB, and he has a good meteor for bad recoveries. Meteors are not some minor gimmicky thing, they're an important tool to make otherwise relatively unrewarding situations guaranteed kills versus characters like Fox and Ike, and (more or less) likely kills against characters such as Rosalina, Ness, Falcon, ROB, Luigi, Lucario and DK.

Mewtwo isn't a good character but he's not (dead) bottom, and like said, even the bottom doesn't mean terrible in this game. Just let's not lose sight of where his weaknesses actually lie and claim his strengths don't exist.

Well to be fair, his damage per hit on normals is only relatively low compared to the heavies that he is so often compared with. Often I hear things like, since Mewtwo wants reads to get his best stuff going, why not just use any other heavy who can do the same thing but also live much longer? They tend to ignore all the other advantages Mewtwo has compared to them though.

He's got quite a few disjoints, even if they're not necessarily full disjoints in the case of his tail which even then only really comes up with bair. His jab is not only fully disjointed but tramples too, which means it never recoils on clank. Dsmash is transcendent and outranges Marth fsmash. I've seen it! The only moves he has that aren't disjointed at all are nair (except the last hit), fair and dair.

I'm not sure I follow Mewtwo's double jump being terrible either. Does that mean Ness's and Lucas's are also bad? There are pros (good for recovery) and cons (awkward for escaping disadvantage) to that kind of jump, but Mewtwo has options to cover the lack of a standard one, namely confusion, great airdodge and specials good for cancelling said double jump (particularly shadow ball)

 

[Nidtendofreak]

-10 after shield drop or before?

If you want a Canadian PR, make one for Canada. Until then all we know is outside of national threats Canada is rather free.

Can't really make a Canadian PR. We're just so spread out, more so than the US is in many ways. Outside of the Ontario/Quebec area you don't have any major population centres close to each other to nail down an overall PR.

Vancouver could have some good people, but next closest large city is.... Calgary. That's a good day's drive away. And then around Calgary you have Edmonton which is about 3 hours away. So those two cities could probably make an Albertan PR. Saskatchewan is ahahahahaaaaa who am I kidding are there even any smash players out there? I might end up being the best player there when I move out there next year. And I've played a grand total of 1 SSB4 tournament. Manitoba only has Winnipeg and is way too far away from Ottawa/Toronto to even entertain the thought. East of Quebec.... I know Nova Scotia had a Brawl scene that was decent and I think one of the better Robin players is from there (or used to be at least). And then the Yukon.... well if anybody does play up there they'd have to go to Alaska, they at least have 40 man tournaments over there. NWT and Nunavut have nothing.

There is really no fair way to judge how good Canada is as a region. Just too spread out. You can judge Ontario/Quebec fairly easily but that's about it.

 

[LancerStaff]

It depends. What's its frame data?

Uh... IDK, haven't really thought about it. Average-ish?

-10 after shield drop or before?

Before.

is it grounded? aerial? how long does it take to start up? does it kill? how much damage? is it mostly horizontal or mostly vertical? can i combo into it/out of it?

there's ALOT that can make a move good or bad.

Let's just say it's on the weaker side and doesn't combo into anything.

 

[Mario766]

Range of Sheik F-Air, doesn't combo into anything, weak and decent frame data


Meh. It'd need to follow up or do more damage to be used as an OoS option, and it would be safe on shield I guess but doesn't have much reward.


Meh is my response.

 

[Project Quarantine]

Can't really make a Canadian PR. We're just so spread out, more so than the US is in many ways. Outside of the Ontario/Quebec area you don't have any major population centres close to each other to nail down an overall PR.

Vancouver could have some good people, but next closest large city is.... Calgary. That's a good day's drive away. And then around Calgary you have Edmonton which is about 3 hours away. So those two cities could probably make an Albertan PR. Saskatchewan is ahahahahaaaaa who am I kidding are there even any smash players out there? I might end up being the best player there when I move out there next year. And I've played a grand total of 1 SSB4 tournament. Manitoba only has Winnipeg and is way too far away from Ottawa/Toronto to even entertain the thought. East of Quebec.... I know Nova Scotia had a Brawl scene that was decent and I think one of the better Robin players is from there (or used to be at least). And then the Yukon.... well if anybody does play up there they'd have to go to Alaska, they at least have 40 man tournaments over there. NWT and Nunavut have nothing.

There is really no fair way to judge how good Canada is as a region. Just too spread out. You can judge Ontario/Quebec fairly easily but that's about it.

90% of you live within 100 miles of the U.S border. You can't be that spread out, you aren't North-South XD

Although Canada is a beautiful country I would like to live in someday


On another note, can we stop comparing characters to their brawl/melee incarnations pls? They are different games, different metas, and different mechanics. It doesn't matter wether melee M2 has a bair that is x frames faster than in sm4sh, it's not really relevant to the discussion imo

 

[meleebrawler]

Uh... IDK, haven't really thought about it. Average-ish?



Before.



Let's just say it's on the weaker side and doesn't combo into anything.

In case people haven't figured it out yet since it's LancerStaff , it's Pit's fair.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

-10 after shield drop or before?

If you want a Canadian PR, make one for Canada. Until then all we know is outside of national threats Canada is rather free.

Ontario doesn't travel, that's ths thing. Poke I think went to SSC and TBH5 but choked out of both of them, and that's it. Trust me when I say we are good, we just gotta hope Poke doesn't choke lol.

Also, our 3rd in the PR won a Canadian national, and doesn't have a wii u. V115 could be a real threat once he gets one. He is one of the top brawl players tho.