I just looked at the frame data between Dr. Mario vs melee doc and compared it to mewtwo vs melee mewtwo and also roy. None of them where hit like mewtwo was. Roy's had a complete overhaul as a character and his biggest change from what I saw was dair being 8 frames slower and fair being 5 frames slower. Other than that it's just a frame. For doc it's just a frame diference.
Mewtwo's ftilt goes from frame 6 to frame ten. Utilt beomes slower as does nair and fair dtilt dsmash uair fsmash...The difference is mostly a frame or two on start up but that changes a lot imo.
Mario bros generally weren't nerfed much throughout each game. That's why we say Mario and Luigi have the best frame data in this game.
Roy is a huge exception. They took Melee Marth and gave Roy worse start-up, animation speeds, IASAs, mobility (doesn't count as frame data but still) even including roll distances, damage, knockback, landing lag, and autocancels on almost his entire moveset. I honestly don't know how and why Roy existed in that game this way. Honestly, he'd be Melee's worst character by far if he didn't have that Dtilt. So Roy was revamped for Smash 4 and Marth is, in some ways, on the other end of the stick this time. But even still, you can compare frame data between Melee Roy and Smash 4 Marth and Roy and Melee Roy will come out on top in many cases. That fact that this is true is sad.
Smash 4 Bowser is a weird situation but even he is in many ways "nerfed" from Melee. It's the other stuff like his huge range in Smash 4 that completely un-nerf him.
I mean, in general, you see that Melee's most disappointing characters like Kirby, Bowser, Mewtwo, and Roy have been almost "fixed" in Smash 4 but that was in other ways. You still can't clearly say whose frame data is better between these "bad" Melee characters.
Smash 4 known for some characters getting curbstomped by their frame data?
From what I've seen in multiple characters, these are the trends I've noticed:
Melee to Brawl: worse or completely removed IASAs, slower animations, heavily reduced landing lag to mostly compensate for the loss of L-cancelling and the slower fall speeds and gravities, some specials have more landing lag, and obviously some OP things nerfed whether it's damage, knockback, or dumb hitboxes. Introduction to hitlag modifiers and autolinks (Brawl had a few autolinks right? My mind is blank).
Brawl to Smash 4: once again slower animations and worse IASAs, a lot more landing lag but not nearly as much as Melee, heavily nerfed autocancels (but while many good ones still exist), less active frames (this one is actually VERY common), less damage across the board (obvious), more knockback across the board (duh), better kill power across the board (overshooting the damage reduction vs knockback increase ratio) but is also due to weaker DI and the loss of momentum cancelling,
way laggier projectiles, many special moves lost their ability to autocancel upon landing/or special landing lag heavily increased, smaller hitboxes and removed hitboxes (this was mostly happening to good characters like MK), and almost everything that was OP in Brawl was heavily nerfed often to the point where they become some of the worst moves in the game (especially at game release). A lot more autolinks. And because of both autolinks and weak SDI, multihits do
way less damage.
I'm asking, i dunno much about frames except that my main's kinda sucks.
Hey, mine does too.
- Ike is your safest bet that won't render your main irrelevant. But a Ryu/Ike pairing might still struggle with strong ranged opponents (think Mega Man, Villager, or Toon Link).
