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They'd do better with a combination of faster attacks, and more range in their physical attacks.Zoning seems an invalid archetype with top tier rushdown characters getting all the results. The highest tier zoning character by broken designstruggles with
I don't see it.
If something doesn't do much knockback in a particular instance, it does very little hitsun. End of story. I don't care if it does 999%, it makes no difference. Please no baseless claims.
That's actually a solid gameplan with Pikachu's Fair thanks to the new hitlag on shield changes (which also affected electric modifiers). Well... assuming you stayed out of shield grab range, which Esam didn't do.
as a good or at least decent secondary character to invest into if you really wanna play him (Solo main Doc is like, nah. Don't do that please. I've played this character for a year, just don't do itttt, there's a reason he is also my secondary). Anyone going a little overboard I admit is really irritating but I can't say I expected anything else, it was a pretty turbulent victory and a really decisive one with a character most people quite honestly underrated even if he's not that great when he's NOT underrated. I do think it's going to spark interest in development of this character though, and that could lead to interesting things! I'd wager at the very least it's gonna inspire a few people to try him, and those who already played him to be inspired as well.
It seems if we were to ask some Japanese players their opinions of Mewtwo we'd get much the same answer. A character with good tools held back from solo viability by serious issues (Mewtwo's lack of weight and difficulty dealing with rushdown once they're in, Doc's lack of mobility and poor recovery), but can be a potent secondary/counterpick thanks to said tools.All Nairo did was reinforce the idea of
Which in it of itself is an improvement for most people's opinions on this character pre-MLG, mind you. Not most people in this thread but the general public, really.
On a side note this is probably the longest outstanding Dr. Mario discussion in this thread so far. I'm not biased or anything when I say "I like dis"
Wrong, wrong, wrong.
16th worst out of 55 characters isn't really average. That's noticeably below average. Right around the bottom 3rd border.
Default Palutena's recovery. It's so vulnerable to ledge pressure it's not funny and she doesn't have much else to really defend herself in the air aside from her very laggy Counter.
Let's put it this way, there's approximately 20ish average recoveries in this game. Doc's is among those.
LOL @ Doc's recovery being better than Link's and Toon Link's.
Nairo's result showed that Doc has tools to compensate for his bad recovery, not that Doc's recovery is good. It isn't average either. It's bad. Almost every character you listed has a better recovery than Doc. I'm not gonna go through and list them all because there are so many, but anyone can look at Doc's recovery and realize it is bottom 5. There's no way it isn't bad. I expected this tournament to change people's opinions of Doc's tier placement but not his recovery ranking...
Link and TL can't really do much offstage until they reach tether range which isn't even guaranteed to be safe against lingering hitboxes that can cover low recoveries simultaneously. Outside of that, they have very little mixup, and their Up-Bs are bad against edgeguards.
You're delusional if you think Doc's recovery is bad.
Can't arbitrarily decide how many classify as "average". There are 55 recoveries not including customs. 26th/27th is average. You can go up and down the scale from there.
Actually it is very simple to make that generalization. Don't you know how tier groupings work?
You really need to stop playing bad Link and Toon Link players who don't know how to use bombs and boomerang off stage.
Think it's Little Mac's nair though only when cancelling into itself. Otherwise a lot of uairs are very similar in frame data. Fastest fair I think is Luigi's.
The boomerang can still lose to many lingering hitboxes. Bombs sometimes can save you from light gimps, but that's not as helpful against offstage KO moves.
I'm at a loss for words right now.
I play Doc in tournament and FRANKLY if people in the SoCal PR aren't gimping my Doc in tournament, are we supposed to conclude that SoCal, one of the most stacked regions in the USA, is bad?
Better then Palutena, I find rather hard to swallow, but I'm not exactly an expert on her either. But better then the Links? Is that without the tethers and the projectiles or am I missing something obvious?
Hits Frame 2 and has a FAF of 16; Little Mac's N-air is the fastest aerial in the game.
Tornado stalling is a better momentum mixup than virtually anything else these characters has, and factoring good DI, makes Doc extremely hard to pressure when he has space to drift from high to low, which is the MOST COMMON WAY YOU RECOVER COMPETITIVELY.
Dont know about link, but toon links recovery is definetly worse than docs imo since its much slower and doesnt sweetspot the ledge sometimes.
His Up-B doesn't travel very fast either. You don't need to guess to keep Olimar away from the ledge.
It travels fast if the Olimar throws all of his Pikmin, which usually the player will. His disjointed fair and bair help, he can recover from anywhere, and most of the time Olimar players will have a purple pikmin to throw.
Its simple: almost nobody goes for gimps in this game. Everybody too afraid and would rather just stay on the stage or go for a ledge trump.
If Palutena's recovery is bad purely due to ledge pressure doesn't that mean Zelda and Mewtwo's recoveries are also bad?
I think a lot of people don't know Olimar can also attack out of up b...
What do you mean by Toon Link's being slower? On Kurogane Hammer both recoveries are listed as coming out on frame 8. :/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYriw8ufHbI&t=2m08s
So all the times I've survived against sonicmega's Mega Man going offstage a million times to gimp me and not succeeding magically don't count?
Zelda can recover horizontally and have the hitbox on her Up-B out before she snaps to the ledge. Makes a very huge difference.
