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Everyone in md/va fails to realize they're going to need to beat luigis to win here and everyone refuses to learn the MU or tries to cope with it via an awful MU.
Yea man, remember brawl metaknights jab? And his weight?
See, you're not understanding. We're not saying he's overpowered, we're saying he's polarized and overly simplistic.
The inherent playstyle isn't the issue.
Please, please, please stop talking about Sonic.
Luigi cyclone kills you from a grab
If Neo was a really good player he would have beaten Boss, maybe he underperformed or something but the fact is that he wasn't good enough, plain and simple no johns, he even used sheik which has a +1/+2 advantage over luigi.
Cyclone kills from a grab nearly guaranteed and there's characters that can't reliably end a stock at 150 plus with rage and a read , I'd add.
It's more of the fact that he gains more reward than any other character off of doing simple things.
But I don't think half of the roster benefits as much from a simple play style as Luigi does.
IIRC NEO said he doesn't enjoy sheik much anymore and has been practicing marcina much more lately.
Yea man, all those whiny scrubs dying at 60% to hoo-hah at apex should've just exploited diddy's weaknesses instead of hoping for some semblance of "balance"
I don't think you fundamentally understand what people are saying about Luigi.
Alright dude listen. Your name is Green L, your icon is Luigi, and you joined today. Every post you've made has been defending Luigi, as if he's some secretly bad character that isn't hella annoying to fight. You're a little bit biased toward your character. I have no idea how much you understand competitive play. You just brought up a damage comparison to Brawl, even though the vast majority of moves in this game do less damage than they did in Brawl, and more importantly, the "problem" with Luigi Cyclone is that it's a guaranteed kill at relatively low percents from a grab. Luigi gets you to these "relatively low percents" in only a few grabs prior to that, because he has reliable and easy throw combos that do significant damage. How does he get those grabs? Well, most characters can't camp Luigi out because Fireballs are fairly safe and long distance, so you're forced to go up close. Up close, you have to deal with a frame 2 jab, and top tier frame data on all his tilts and smashes... as well as an amazing, relatively safe dashgrab. So it's low risk, high reward all around. Luigi doesn't require a read to get the Cyclone KOs; your DI options are so poor from Downthrow that Luigi has plenty of time to react and hit you with it. It drags you up very high (even from ground level!) and even higher if you happen to be grabbed on a platform, so it kills quite early, especially as Vipermoon just said, if you're a floaty character.
Shaya
for this one. The recent Falcon vs Sonic mention, for example. I've never thought any character was as horrifically poorly designed as Sonic, aside from Rosalina, and that only because of how broken Luma often is/was, especially before nerfs. Well, and Ice Climbers, but we don't talk about that. I know you've also mentioned MK as infuriating? And Wii Fit? And of course Luigi, though most people agree on that already. And I'm not sure what else? Is having reliable, strongish KO options bad design? What if we used a 3 or 4 stock format, like Melee? Fast kills (gimps and quick combos) are praised in that game, but if they used 2 stocks, it would be infuriating at times. Is unreactable speed (Sonic) bad design? My problem with Sonic, compared to Falcon, is that his speed is basically unreactable at all distances. With Falcon, his Dash Attack/Dashgrab are only a real threat from a very specific distance, at which you should expect it. What else are problems? Is bad design simply "one option is so strong that you should use that at the exclusion of all else?" Because that would make sense. What are characters with good design? Just throwing some names out that seem like they make sense: Pit, Greninja, Ike, Villager? I would put Captain Falcon as about how balanced I would desire all characters in this game to be, but evidently some disagree. Perhaps he's the right amount of "strength," but his actual design has some flaws that need fixing? How would you go about fixing the poorly designed characters? Is that discussion even appropriate for this thread? I DON'T KNOW, but I've already made a long ramble post, and regardless of what we do, within a few days the thread will go back to discussion of how Sheik and Luigi are stupid, and then comparing Marth and Lucina and Roy to each other, and Ffamfran talking about Falco (another well designed character that is pretty close to ideal balance imo) and Yoshi being maybe good or not, and ETC. ETC.
This doesn't change anything, Neo loss plain and simple that's the point of "no johns", my point goes more to Saya throwing a rant about how broken is luigi and "subtly" saying that Neo's marth should have won.
If by "subtly" you mean not at all, sure.
I'm not lol. I was just stating what's wrong with luigi.
I'm commenting on the current conversation. I see complaints about fireball + grab, and I know a character, who happens to be Pac-Man, who can deal with them well. I don't see the big deal, it's just an option to consider.
Actually it kills consistently around 90-110 on midweights with rage. Also, it seems like you're stating the percent it kills AT instead of FROM. You get grabbed at 110-130 and unless luigi is at 0%, you're dead.
I wish Swordfighter could kill the lightest characters in the game at 90% from a grab.
You kinda had me...
Then you lost me...
You didn't actually point out where people were exaggerating.
