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Official Viability Ratings v2 | Competitive Impressions

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Diddy Kong

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Diddy being lower than R.O.B. just because he has slight disadvantage against just Mario and Luigi makes no sence at all. Diddy is not bad against Pikachu either, neither Sheik, and he actually beats Zero Suit Samus. Rosalina isn't bad either, and I disagree Diddy loses this matchup strongly. I also think he does well against Sonic, even vs Ness and Fox, and last time I checked, C.Falcon wasn't winning against Diddy either (might even be 55-45 for Diddy).

So how is Diddy this low?
 

|RK|

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Wait, what does ZeRo say it is?
He says Kirby has a good matchup/can duck under everything/etc

I swear if I have to read crouching one more time...
But seriously, how much footage is out there that shows crouching solving anything against top level players?
I can't take it any more
SmashGod vs VaBengal

Oop, double post
 
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Wintermelon43

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Off Crouching Topic
IMO:

Lucina's way too low, she's middle tier just like Marth

Samus is too high, WAY too many flaws.

King Dedede is a little too high, good combo ability. great projectile, and easy ability to kill cause of his KO Power.

Shulk, Lucas, and Jigglypuff are WAY too low. Lucas has good combos, a great z-air, and good KO Power. Shulk has amazing range, and amazing ability with the monado arts, and good KO Power I believe. Jigglypuff has amazing combo ability's, amazing side special and down special, amazing air attacks, great up tilt, good recovery, and simply istoo good for that spot, he's mid tier tbh.

Ganondorf's a little low too, yes, he's slow and laggy.

Duck Hunt and Little mac should be a little higher. Mr game & Watch and Wii Fit Trainer are a little high too, but I won't complain about WFT, since I know almost nothing.

Kirby, Mega Man, Olimar, and Pac-Man are all high tier, and should be in the tier above.If you want, I'll give reasons.

Rob should be much lower, too many weaknesses.

Ness is too high, he isn't THAT good.

Yoshi and Meta Knight are too low, the Pits are too high.

A few other things too.
He says Kirby has a good matchup/can duck under everything/etc



SmashGod vs VaBengal
Can you give me a link?

He says Kirby has a good matchup/can duck under everything/etc



SmashGod vs VaBengal
YEAHHHHHHHHHHH MORE COOL POINTS TO ZERO
 

Xeze

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New tier list opinion:
Seems about right. Finally someone that doesn't consider Samus to be the worst character in the game.
I just think Shulk and Lucas are D and Lucina is not F by any means. The rest is fine.
 

Wintropy

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...the Pits are too high.
The fact that the Pits have a relatively even matchup spread and the second (?) best player in the world gets consistent results with the angel boys suggests otherwise.

I don't know if the Pits are better than Wario or Meta Knight, who've really been doing the good stuff recently, but I definitely reckon they're viable.
 

Wintermelon43

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The fact that the Pits have a relatively even matchup spread and the second (?) best player in the world gets consistent results with the angel boys suggests otherwise.

I don't know if the Pits are better than Wario or Meta Knight, who've really been doing the good stuff recently, but I definitely reckon they're viable.
Second best player in the world? I didn't know the best japanease player was Pit. But it doesn't matter in America unless he starts going to tournaments in america
 
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warionumbah2

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If Kirby users are getting hype over crouching ZSS stuff and going even with Sheik then MK(yes i really did make this related to my main) should is literally the better Kirby in everyway.

Both lose to ZSS, MK is the Dabuz slayer, Kirby isn't, MKs been slapping high level Sheiks around, Kirby hasn't, top players have pocket MKs, Kirby isn't on their radar ect. As Emblem Lord said like 10 pages ago, may as well use MK.

The more you hype up Kirby the better MK looks.
 
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Wintermelon43

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If Kirby users are getting hype over crouching ZSS stuff and going even with Sheik then MK(yes i really did make this related to my main) should is literally the better Kirby in everyway.

Both lose to ZSS, MK is the Dabuz slayer, Kirby isn't, MKs been slapping high level Sheiks around, Kirby hasn't. As Emblem Lord said like 10 pages ago, may as well use MK.

The more you hype up Kirby the better MK looks.
I swear Meta Knight + Jigglypuff = Kirby. Which is probably why my favorite three characters to play as is 1.Kirby 2.Jigglypuff 3.Meta Knight

Also I'm tired of explaining Kirby VS. ZSS, so I'm simply gonna ask a question. Have any top players (Or any of the best Kirby or ZSS or Sheik users) Ever dicussed the sheik or ZSS matchups? The other one I know that did this is ZeRo, who says Kirby VS. Sheik is even I believe, going by somebody above (I don't rememeber where he said it too)

And I can main who I want, thank you. Maybe you prefer Meta Knight over Kirby (Well, you do) to main. I don't give a crap on that, you find him more fun, it means nothing to me, I won't complain or anything of course. But DON'T tell others to switch mains
 

Rashyboy05

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Off Crouching TopicIMO:

Samus is too high, WAY too many flaws.
And said flaws are..???

King Dedede is a little too high, good combo ability. great projectile, and easy ability to kill cause of his KO Power.
Are you saying he's ranked too high or he's ranked too low? The way your saying it seems like your praising DDD but you're saying that he's a bit too high.

Kirby, Mega Man, Olimar, and Pac-Man are all high tier, and should be in the tier above.If you want, I'll give reasons.
Then give us the reasons already.

Rob should be much lower, too many weaknesses.
Yet you fail to mention his "too many weaknesses"

{Ness is too high, he isn't THAT good.
With great aerials and good grab game. I don't see why you don't think he's that good.

The Pits are too high.
Seeing as Pits have been getting results thanks to Earth and Nairo. I don't see why they don't deserve their position on that list.
 

Wintermelon43

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And said flaws are..???


Are you saying he's ranked too high or he's ranked too low? The way your saying it seems like your praising DDD but you're saying that he's a bit too high.


Then give us the reasons already.


Yet you fail to mention his "too many weaknesses"


With great aerials and good grab game. I don't see why you don't think he's that good.


Seeing as Pits have been getting results thanks to Earth and Nairo. I don't see why they don't deserve their position on that list.
Meant too low, woops
 

Wintropy

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Second best player in the world? I didn't know the best japanease player was Pit. But it doesn't matter in America unless he starts going to tournaments in america
I was referring to Nairo. I'm hesitant to maintain he's currently the second-best in the world (when players like ESAM and Ally get these kinds of results, that position is tentative at best), but he's definitely a top-level player with a very good pocket Pit.

You can't really disavow that fact. I agree the Pits are debatably too high (as I say, I'd struggle to say they're above Wario and Meta Knight), but the fact is that the angel boys have decent matchups across the board and fair results whenever they set their sandal-decked feet into the fray.
 

RedBeefBaron

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How can Diddy not be solo-viable when Zero still bodies everyone with him

Viability simply means whether a character can win tourneys or not. Better characters are just more viable, or more optimal. Most, if not all characters are still viable in the sense that you could win with them assuming you were good enough. Zero has single-handedly proven that people haven't reached the level where a match-up can invalidate inferior skill even at the highest level of play. The guy was bodying high-level Diddies pre-nerf with Falcon and that MU was at least 6-4 in Diddy's favour at the time.

Even during the later years of Brawl, when the meta was supposedly more developed, people were still winning 4-6s and even 3-7s at high level play. The idea that only like 10-20% of the Sm4sh cast is capable of winning tourneys solo is a joke.
Zero is a Shiek main that pulls out Diddy once in a blue moon for hype's sake, if at all. He is also miles ahead of everyone else in skill. The fact that even he has decided to drop Diddy for Shiek is pretty damning, IMO.

Also viability means whether a character can realistically win tourneys consistently. The top solo Diddy mains have been struggling to do this. Zero doesn't count, he's a Shiek main. Diddy's theory is not lining up with his results lately.

He is an incredible character with a secondary which is something everyone who wants to win should be doing anyway.

Brawl peels were absolutely godlike compared to the way they are now and now we only have one of them, so that's a bad comparison. But if people all refuse to learn simple stuff like shield to z catch it wouldn't surprise me, honestly.

Edit: Rob is absurdly high on that list though, Rob is not better than Diddy lol.
 
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DunnoBro

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Second best player in the world? I didn't know the best japanease player was Pit. But it doesn't matter in America unless he starts going to tournaments in america
He's referring to nairo. Who generally only uses pit as a secondary for ZSS's more difficult (not necessarily bad) MUs.

If Kirby users are getting hype over crouching ZSS stuff and going even with Sheik then MK(yes i really did make this related to my main) should is literally the better Kirby in everyway.

Both lose to ZSS, MK is the Dabuz slayer, Kirby isn't, MKs been slapping high level Sheiks around, Kirby hasn't, top players have pocket MKs, Kirby isn't on their radar ect. As Emblem Lord said like 10 pages ago, may as well use MK.

The more you hype up Kirby the better MK looks.
Yea, I was thinking about this the other day when a friend was looking into either kirby, or MK.

Very similar traits/weaknesses and MU spread. Kirby's main boon is his crouch and uptilt/dair. MK's is his dash attack, dash grab, and good disadvantage state offstage. And of course his potency while in rage.

In a fast faller, edgeguardable, and neutral weak meta kirby could be the better choice.

But in this neutral-dominant, kill struggling (unless it's luigi) meta, MK seems like the better choice vs the more relevant high tier threats.

You can't really disavow that fact. I agree the Pits are debatably too high (as I say, I'd struggle to say they're above Wario and Meta Knight), but the fact is that the angel boys have decent matchups across the board and fair results whenever they set their sandal-decked feet into the fray.
I've been saying this for a while, the pits are essentially sword-marios. Great inherent moveset but no real gimmicks to abuse. They lose pretty much all the matches they do because they're so fair, not because of any inherent inability to function in the MU.
 

Wintropy

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He's referring to nairo. Who generally only uses pit as a secondary for ZSS's more difficult (not necessarily bad) MUs.

I've been saying this for a while, the pits are essentially sword-marios. Great inherent moveset but no real gimmicks to abuse. They lose pretty much all the matches they do because they're so fair, not because of any inherent inability to function in the MU.
I'm not a "he". ;3

That's exactly it, though. Devoid of fatal weaknesses, no opponent is truly a hard counter to them; bereft of true strengths, there's a good chance you can get trounced just for being so fundamentally neutral.

Said it before, but the fact that the angel boys are (mostly) immune to balance patches is either a very solid boon or a damnable curse.

I'm of the mentality that the Pits are fundamentally solid and get good results as is, so I'm okay with the fact that Sakurai is wary of any further balance tweaks.

:4megaman: too low. Imo, no way are Junior, Ike, Robin, DK, Peach, or ROB better than him
Can't speak for the others, but Ike and R.O.B. get way better results than him. That's worth a mention.
 
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warionumbah2

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Also I'm tired of explaining Kirby VS. ZSS, so I'm simply gonna ask a question. Have any top players (Or any of the best Kirby or ZSS or Sheik users) Ever dicussed the sheik or ZSS matchups? The other one I know that did this is ZeRo, who says Kirby VS. Sheik is even I believe, going by somebody above (I don't rememeber where he said it too)
Has Kirby ever made it far in regionals/nationals to even face the strong ZSS and Sheik players? Everything revolving around Kirby performing well against Sheik and ZSS are theories. Maybe Kirby isn't as good as you think he is.
 

TriTails

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I'm not trying to offend anyone, but reading the last line of Smog Frog's signature always make me cry in the inside...

Even more painful, it's a true statement.

On friggin' topic:
Wintermelon43. I lost it when you said D3 was too low... he's easily bottom 5 in this game IMO.

Like. Uh. What MU does D3 even win...? I visited D3 MU thread a while ago and I found NO MUs they've discussed is in D3's favor.

Piss mobility, gimpable recovery, attacks take a year to come out, is supposed to be strong yet I don't feel him being as strong as Ganon while having slower attacks, probably the best combo meat ever, etc, etc. Big*** disjoints don't really make a character.

I'm gonna summon the fat penguin main for just about a second @Smooth Criminal in case I missed anything. I heard from him D3 go fairly against Pits and Marth/Lucina, but I don't see the formers and the latters are being buffed so...
 
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Diddy Kong

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Zero is a Shiek main that pulls out Diddy once in a blue moon for hype's sake, if at all. He is also miles ahead of everyone else in skill. The fact that even he has decided to drop Diddy for Shiek is pretty damning, IMO.

Also viability means whether a character can realistically win tourneys consistently. The top solo Diddy mains have been struggling to do this. Zero doesn't count, he's a Shiek main.

He is an incredible character with a secondary which is something everyone who wants to win should be doing anyway.

Brawl peels were absolutely godlike compared to the way they are now and now we only have one of them, so that's a bad comparison. But if people all refuse to learn simple stuff like shield to z catch it wouldn't surprise me, honestly.

Edit: Rob is absurdly high on that list though, Rob is not better than Diddy lol.
Yet his only bad matchups are Mario and Luigi, and he's actually going pretty even against Sheik, beats Zero Suit Samus (which is extremely notable as ZSS is rising, quickly) and doesn't do bad vs Pikachu either.

Am pretty sure that with the recent D Smash buff, Diddy will see better results in the near future. The fact he was so heavily absent at one point till now was the fact he was over-nerfed, and over-used (bandwagonists, go to hell plz). Which combined results to Diddy not being a popular pick now, plus, he has gathered a hate-base so big that people just LOVE to not pick Diddy for reasons which are stupid.

Before, he was the most brain-dead character in the game. Now, he needs some strategy to work with, and some patience at times when aiming for a KO. Quite different than how he was before, so it's no big mystery why bandwagonists left the character for Sheik as soon as the nerfs hit in.

With his matchup spreads and tools, I have a hard time picturing Diddy below the likes of Ness, Fox and Sonic honestly. Yes, by now I'd argue to that Sheik, Zero Suit Samus, Pikachu and Rosalina are better, but as for the rest of the cast? No way.
 

DunnoBro

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How is Mario a bad MU for Diddy?
Mobility + reflector makes bananas less potent, gimping, and general fast faller lovin combos... Also fireballs stuff a banana camping diddy pretty hard. A lot of little stuff that adds up to making diddy have to work way harder than mario in the end.

Doesn't seem as bad as vs luigi though.
 
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adom4

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I'm not trying to offend anyone, but reading the last line of Smog Frog's signature always make me cry in the inside...

Even more painful, it's a true statement.

On friggin' topic:
Wintermelon43. I lost it when you said D3 was too low... he's easily bottom 5 in this game IMO.

Like. Uh. What MU does D3 even win...? I visited D3 MU thread a while ago and I found NO MUs they've discussed is in D3's favor.

Piss mobility, gimpable recovery, attacks take a year to come out, is supposed to be strong yet I don't feel him being as strong as Ganon while having slower attacks, probably the best combo meat ever, etc, etc. Big*** disjoints don't really make a character.

I'm gonna summon the fat penguin main for just about a second @Smooth Criminal in case I missed anything. I heard from him D3 go fairly against Pits and Marth/Lucina, but I don't see the formers and the latters are being buffed so...
From what i've played i do think he probably beats Ganondorf slightly, Ganon has trouble with his edgeguards & his range, i've only played DDD on wifi though.
 

DunnoBro

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From what i've played i do think he probably beats Ganondorf slightly, Ganon has trouble with his edgeguards & his range, i've only played DDD on wifi though.
I don't see him beating ganon honestly. Dedede's whole neutral is "hover and bait" but ganon's big ass lagless upair is a piss easy challenge to that. Ftilt/Fsmash also kills dedede uncharacteristically early due to his fast faller status.

Has Kirby ever made it far in regionals/nationals to even face the strong ZSS and Sheik players? Everything revolving around Kirby performing well against Sheik and ZSS are theories. Maybe Kirby isn't as good as you think he is.
At Smashcon @smashgod whipped out kirby vs VABengals and won. On paper it makes a lot of sense, kirby's neutral is actually good there. Don't even need to take the extra time to space dair, can just drop with it since she can't shield grab. Also combo ZSS really hard, and she has a lot of trouble comboing or even starting things due to kirby's height/crouch.

I'm not a "he". ;3
Apologies.

Can't speak for the others, but Ike and R.O.B. get way better results than him. That's worth a mention.
Wayyy better results.

I do understand the mindset though. Megaman is (allegedly) good vs Luigi, Sonic, and possibly Ness. And doesn't seem too bad vs other high tiers, but his awkward playstyle and high skill floor (for sm4sh) make him a less popular choice or secondary.
 
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Diddy Kong

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How is Mario a bad MU for Diddy?
It's just really frustrating because of reasons DunnoBro mentoined, but also the fact that Mario moves through the air so much faster than Diddy, plus has ground mobility that matches Diddy, making running around in circles around Mario a pain in the ass. Mario's U Smash is also really annoying, breaking through key approach options as F Air, and is a good counter to Side B to. Also, Cape is annoying for bananas and ESPECIALLY Diddy's recovery, plus Fireballs > Peanuts in most cases, plus landing a KO against Mario is surprisingly difficult sometimes for Diddy.

It's easily my personal most annoying matchup, far worse than Luigi (who isn't even much of an issue anymore thanks to nerfs), and also far worse than Sheik / Rosalina / Pikachu. I don't even know who started the rumor that Diddy is supposed to do badly against Sheik / Rosalina / Pikachu, but I really disagree with it. Also know that Diddy pretty much stomps Zero Suit Samus. So if ZSS is going to do good, so is Diddy. It's also likely that with more exposure, Sheik and Pikachu will be hit with nerfs sooner than later.

So in the end, he's a good character to solo main. Certainly viable.
 

David Viran

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I don't see him beating ganon honestly. Dedede's whole neutral is "hover and bait" but ganon's big *** lagless upair is a piss easy challenge to that. Ftilt/Fsmash also kills dedede uncharacteristically early due to his fast faller status.



At Smashcon @smashgod whipped out kirby vs VABengals and won. On paper it makes a lot of sense, kirby's neutral is actually good there. Don't even need to take the extra time to space dair, can just drop with it since she can't shield grab. Also combo ZSS really hard, and she has a lot of trouble comboing or even starting things due to kirby's height/crouch.
At smashcon bengals looked like he started figuring out that MU then got ****ed by rage. Up b oos will hit kirby no matter how flat he gets.
 

RedBeefBaron

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Yet his only bad matchups are Mario and Luigi, and he's actually going pretty even against Sheik, beats Zero Suit Samus (which is extremely notable as ZSS is rising, quickly) and doesn't do bad vs Pikachu either.

Am pretty sure that with the recent D Smash buff, Diddy will see better results in the near future. The fact he was so heavily absent at one point till now was the fact he was over-nerfed, and over-used (bandwagonists, go to hell plz). Which combined results to Diddy not being a popular pick now, plus, he has gathered a hate-base so big that people just LOVE to not pick Diddy for reasons which are stupid.

Before, he was the most brain-dead character in the game. Now, he needs some strategy to work with, and some patience at times when aiming for a KO. Quite different than how he was before, so it's no big mystery why bandwagonists left the character for Sheik as soon as the nerfs hit in.

With his matchup spreads and tools, I have a hard time picturing Diddy below the likes of Ness, Fox and Sonic honestly. Yes, by now I'd argue to that Sheik, Zero Suit Samus, Pikachu and Rosalina are better, but as for the rest of the cast? No way.
A lot of this is debatable.

It's pretty generous to say that Diddy doesn't lose to pikachu or Rosalina. Pikachu overpowers him in neutral and edgeguards him mercilessly, while also being hard to cleanly hit for combos. Rosalina has better damage since she can't be reliably comboed with luma out, and none of Diddy's moves really launch luma well besides monkey flip kick which isn't safe on shield. She also kills way earlier and way easier.

I'm with you on Shiek but we are pretty much the only Diddys who think this apparently.

So his matchups aren't really as amazing as a lot of people think, especially when characters like Mario, Rosalina, Luigi, are common. If we also say he loses to Shiek which a lot of people do, and pikachu which I definitely think is true he has a lot of problems at the top level. Maybe this will change but right now the results reflect this.

Mario, fox, and maybe Sonic have better spreads then him at this point IMO in addition to the characters you said. Although I'm not really as impressed with Sonic since the nerfs.

Edit: I foresee we will be agreeing to disagree in the near future.
 
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Pazx

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Luigi mains have got to be the only people who complain about the changes they receive in patches and then put words in the mouths of others acting as if they aren't the ones overblowing the nerfs.

I think Diddy is solo viable in that he doesn't outright lose to (m)any characters, all of his matchups are very winnable. That said, I think @ Diddy Kong Diddy Kong is a little too positive in terms of his matchup spread. If I were to make one using only top-high tier characters it would look like this:

Uphill battle:
:4ness::4luigi::4mario::4sheik::rosalina::4olimar:

Even-ish:
:4zss::4falcon::4metaknight::4rob::4villagerf::4fox::4sonic:

Likely wins:
:4wario2::4yoshi:

No pika experience so no comment there. I feel as though even though Diddy does well against a lot of these characters (eg. ZSS and Falcon) he simply has to work harder than the other character for similar reward. IMO Villager also beats Diddy pretty convincingly on certain stages, this is a matchup I've always avoided unless I'm the one picking the stage. Diddy really does benefit immensely from such poor edgeguarding in the current state of the game, once that changes I expect to see people fear him less and less. Sheik in particular murders Diddy offstage but even Mr R was afraid to go offstage against Zero at EVO.
 

Diddy Kong

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"My character shouldn't struggle anymore against Luigi thanks to his nerfs."

Ugh.
Exactly the same thing everyone said about Diddy after the first nerf patch. You should survive me being the only one to bring this up as of yet easily. :rolleyes:
A lot of this is debatable.

It's pretty generous to say that Diddy doesn't lose to pikachu or Rosalina. Pikachu overpowers him in neutral and edgeguards him mercilessly, while also being hard to cleanly hit for combos. Rosalina has better damage since she can't be reliably comboed with luma out, and none of Diddy's moves really launch luma well besides monkey flip kick which isn't safe on shield. She also kills way earlier and way easier.

I'm with you on Shiek but we are pretty much the only Diddys who think this apparently.

So his matchups aren't really as amazing as a lot of people think, especially when characters like Mario, Rosalina, Luigi, are common. If we also say he loses to Shiek which a lot of people do, and pikachu which I definitely think is true he has a lot of problems at the top level. Maybe this will change but right now the results reflect this.

Mario, fox, and maybe Sonic have better spreads then him at this point IMO in addition to the characters you said. Although I'm not really as impressed with Sonic since the nerfs.

Edit: I foresee we will be agreeing to disagree in the near future.
Problem with Pikachu actually is: who outside of ESAM is effectively using Pikachu? I am pretty damn sure that ZeRo's Diddy would beat ESAM for example. So am not really taking Pikachu especially serious at this point... At least, outside of Customs. Custom Pikachu is a whole different beast.

Luma isn't invincible or anything, and F Air launches Luma far enough to follow up to something at the very least. F Tilt also isn't too bad, and if they are separated, a Monkey Flip Kick in the face is not something Luma appriciates. Yes, before when Diddy was close to desperation in getting in the kill, I'd argue that Rosalina was a lot harder than before. But I personally never saw the matchup as worse than 50-50, and I am actually still inclinded to think Diddy vs Rosalina is at the very least still 55-45.

A lot of stuff that applies to ZSS also applies to Rosalina I feel. Tall, lightweight, easily punishable for Diddy, just watchout for projectiles and we good.

So to me, I only think that the "problematic" matchups are Mario, and maybe Luigi, who's a lot easier to deal with than Mario anyway. Sheik isn't much of a problem because we can actually really make good use of the fact that Sheik also struggles with landing the KO thanks to rage. I also think that most won't agree with us on this, but I think it's only a matter of time before it'll show of. If ZeRo did so well against Mr.R's Sheik when Diddy was CLEARLY on his WORST, that shows a lot of potential.

If you want to agree to disagree, I'm fine with that. Am just being optimistic about my character, and with the recent buffs, I think he'll do quite well in tournaments in the future. Has ZeRo actually spoken about the recent Diddy buffs as of yet? I know ZeRo doesn't think too well about Diddy currently (as he thinks / knows that Sakurai nerfed Diddy especially to hinder him) but am sure he's gonna play the monkey more.

Only time will tell.

EDIT: Also, I heavily disagree that Ness and Olimar are uphill battles for Diddy. Sure, they are harder because of the nerfs, but we beat both solidly before. I honestly don't see them as being anything worse than even. Villager also isn't too bad. And R.O.B. going even against Diddy whilst being such delicious combo-food for Diddy isn't something I personally find too believable.

Again, I know I'm probably optimistic, but so where the Wario / Pacman players before remember? :smirk: The Hoo-Hah Nation shall rise again! :4diddy:
 
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slavoslav

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You do realize Gordos get reflected by any move that does 2% or more right? Hardly a spammable zoning tool.
I can't think of any moves in DK's toolkit that are particularly reliable reflection options. He's not Megaman who can outmeme Gordo spam with lemons.
 

Diddy Kong

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I can't think of any moves in DK's toolkit that are particularly reliable reflection options. He's not Megaman who can outmeme Gordo spam with lemons.
Jab or F Tilt will be fine enough, N Air for utility to maybe. B Air definitely if DK gets assaulted from the back. Now again, how does DK lose?
 
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