Various Samus Tech (Z-air --> F-smash Update)

[Afro Smash]

yeah I posted about it in a bomb thread a while back, but I did more research in to frames saved and it belongs in this tech thread as well. KayJay also made a vid but I thought I'd directly compare the same move one with crouch cancel one without

 

[JAZZ_]

Holding or flicking down after you come out of morph ball saves 7 frames, most useful when applied to shield and d tilt to stop people chasing you down and punishing you, but can be applied to any action

ooooooooh thats super useful. I use bomb traps constantly in my play so thats uber useful. Thanks Afro Smash

 

[KayJay]

Isn't that posted somewhere else as well? I remember that being discussed here somewhere

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

I found something really strange while in training mode. It doesn't matter what speed, but if you alter the game speed in training mode you can actually act faster out of Down B, which is really weird and I wish that Bombs actually worked like that.

 

[Vyrnx]

I don't see a whole lot of stuff on bair usage. Is there a reason it isn't ever used in the neutral? It seems pretty good to me. It's hard to punish and does a lot of shield pressure. I haven't found great success using it in the neutral (except against big characters), but I was wondering if anyone else had found something I was missing. I feel like theoretically it is one of Samus's better moves.

 

[MegaRiff]

I don't see a whole lot of stuff on bair usage. Is there a reason it isn't ever used in the neutral? It seems pretty good to me. It's hard to punish and does a lot of shield pressure. I haven't found great success using it in the neutral (except against big characters), but I was wondering if anyone else had found something I was missing. I feel like theoretically it is one of Samus's better moves.

I remember seeing @ KayJay use bair in neutral vs a Roy. Perhaps talk to him? If I recall correctly, it does amazing shield damage and it pushes back oppenents if sweetspotted, making it safe on shield. I coul dbe wrong, it's been a while. Again, @ KayJay may be able to chime in on this one.

 

[Vyrnx]

Yeah that was the video that got me interested in using it more. It's the only video I've seen where it's used

 

[MegaRiff]

Yeah that was the video that got me interested in using it more. It's the only video I've seen where it's used

I've had some success in the past using as a means t punish an opponents get up. Just rush towards them and then RAR into bair. they usually tend to choose an attack get up, and the bair punishes them. Samus being a floaty character, she can wait out the attack while in the air. Hope that makes sense. I wouldn't necessarily call this a neutral option, but it's something.

Also, fwiw, if you are precise with your inputs, you can do a forward moving bair with absolutely no backpedaling from a standing position, basically turning it into a fair in a way. You just have to lightly move the joystick in the opposite direction to pivot without moving and then inputting the jump and attack commands. You just gotta be quick about the inputs. Don't know if that helps any, but its' something I've fooled around with in training mode.

 

[leiraD]

I've had some success in the past using as a means t punish an opponents get up. Just rush towards them and then RAR into bair. they usually tend to choose an attack get up, and the bair punishes them. Samus being a floaty character, she can wait out the attack while in the air. Hope that makes sense. I wouldn't necessarily call this a neutral option, but it's something.

Also, fwiw, if you are precise with your inputs, you can do a forward moving bair with absolutely no backpedaling from a standing position, basically turning it into a fair in a way. You just have to lightly move the joystick in the opposite direction to pivot without moving and then inputting the jump and attack commands. You just gotta be quick about the inputs. Don't know if that helps any, but its' something I've fooled around with in training mode.

Also works really well with SHAD

 

[MegaRiff]

Also works really well with SHAD

Indeed! But what gets me frustrated is that sometimes, with the input lag in For glory, the bair will at times not come out in time, and I only hear the sound effect, but without the bair animation as the input was too late. I've lost numerous times for this reason alone.

 

[Afro Smash]

I don't see a whole lot of stuff on bair usage. Is there a reason it isn't ever used in the neutral? It seems pretty good to me. It's hard to punish and does a lot of shield pressure. I haven't found great success using it in the neutral (except against big characters), but I was wondering if anyone else had found something I was missing. I feel like theoretically it is one of Samus's better moves.

3 vids of 'tech' using Samus Bair

 

[DAlegendarysamus]

Feels good to be back.

 

[leiraD]

Feels good to be back.

Can it be? Is it the legendary spike-king himself?

 

[DAlegendarysamus]

It is I. I shall pick up the Canon once more, and grace the earth.

 

[leiraD]

A word of caution: I'm sure you've realized it at this point, but Samus kind of sucks in this game.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/H7CewcWnKs8

 

[Halkite]

That shouldn't really matter if you can play her well despite the obvious flaws.

 

[Tonetta]

A word of caution: I'm sure you've realized it at this point, but Samus kind of sucks in this game.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/H7CewcWnKs8

I left this board for over a week and within an hour of coming back someone posts this stupid video. Seriously stop posting it.

 

[leiraD]

I left this board for over a week and within an hour of coming back someone posts this stupid video. Seriously stop posting it.

Why?

 

[Halkite]

Probably because while those are flaws, the flaws in the video represent improper spacing at the absolute worst. Samus is one of the more obvious examples because of how much you need to keep someone at arms length.

Edit: Off the top of my head Link is a character that has his neutral and side-specials miss just as much if you let the opponent get that close to you, which imo is bad. You never want to have them that close.

 

[leiraD]

Probably because while those are flaws, the flaws in the video represent improper spacing at the absolute worst. Samus is one of the more obvious examples because of how much you need to keep someone at arms length.

Edit: Off the top of my head Link is a character that has his neutral and side-specials miss just as much if you let the opponent get that close to you, which imo is bad. You never want to have them that close.

Maybe that's true for the example of the up-close missle and f-smash, but the fact that usmash, dsmash, and fsmash, are all problematic is worth representing visually... And spacing problems were not the only problems referenced in the video.

 

[Halkite]

No they weren't, but pretty much everyone is already aware of how bad the moves displayed are in terms of kill power. Which is why people don't use those moves as finishers.

 

[Tonetta]

Here's some cool jablock stuff to incorporate into your gameplay.

 

[leiraD]

Here's some cool jablock stuff to incorporate into your gameplay.

Cool video. Definitely useful.

As a side note @ Tonetta , I was playing Kipa, the Pikachu player, this past weekend and he was oddly knowledgeable about the Samus matchup. He told me its because he's played you a bunch. Go figure, lol.

@ Depth_ BTW, am I doing something wrong or can Samus really ony do turn around cc, and not breversal or wavebounce? I have no problem doing it with other characters but I'm having no luck with Samus

 

[FlAlex]

It is I. I shall pick up the Canon once more, and grace the earth.

Color me stupid, but who are you?

 

[Afro Smash]

Was messing around with ledge snap punishes in training mode and found that Down Tilt is really great for it, here's an example below of catching Mario 3 times in a row to prove how easy and viable it is. I Nair him away at the end to prove I'm not punishing the 50 frame window where you can't grab the ledge but actually the ledge snap. 2 follow ups I've found are stringing it in to fair, or jumping to bait out an Airdodge then firing the CS, but not demonstratable on this CPU since it Up B's straight away.

Not tested vs everyone but Teleport recoveries and Falcon/Ganon should be easy to cover, and I've got it to work on Mega Man as well. Any Up B's slower than Mario's shouldn't be very difficult to cover tbh if you listen for the audio cues.

 

[Tonetta]

I don't really like dtilt on the ledge (although it is effective as extra damage) because we have much better options when it comes to ledge guarding.

 

[MOM Samus]

Was messing around with ledge snap punishes in training mode and found that Down Tilt is really great for it, here's an example below of catching Mario 3 times in a row to prove how easy and viable it is. I Nair him away at the end to prove I'm not punishing the 50 frame window where you can't grab the ledge but actually the ledge snap. 2 follow ups I've found are stringing it in to fair, or jumping to bait out an Airdodge then firing the CS, but not demonstratable on this CPU since it Up B's straight away.

Not tested vs everyone but Teleport recoveries and Falcon/Ganon should be easy to cover, and I've got it to work on Mega Man as well. Any Up B's slower than Mario's shouldn't be very difficult to cover tbh if you listen for the audio cues.

I love doing that. D-tilt and Bomb for edge guard. Follow up with a F-air to catch their airdodge (after they get hit with the D-air) and then go for another D-tilt. Best results on Falcon, Fox. Against characters that teleport to the ledge, tether trump them. It's easy.

You can always time a Screw Attack to intercept their one frame of vulnerability. I did this on FG to Palutena 3 times in a row into a spike. Lol, she was not grabbing that ledge at all. XD

 

[samusedaway]

Was messing around with ledge snap punishes in training mode and found that Down Tilt is really great for it, here's an example below of catching Mario 3 times in a row to prove how easy and viable it is. I Nair him away at the end to prove I'm not punishing the 50 frame window where you can't grab the ledge but actually the ledge snap. 2 follow ups I've found are stringing it in to fair, or jumping to bait out an Airdodge then firing the CS, but not demonstratable on this CPU since it Up B's straight away.

Not tested vs everyone but Teleport recoveries and Falcon/Ganon should be easy to cover, and I've got it to work on Mega Man as well. Any Up B's slower than Mario's shouldn't be very difficult to cover tbh if you listen for the audio cues.

I don't really like dtilt on the ledge (although it is effective as extra damage) because we have much better options when it comes to ledge guarding.

Agreed.

A better option after the jab 1 pratt attack at that percent would be to go for the Footstool option select with bomb coming out on the footstool and d-air coming out on whiff. Leads to early percent kills especially on characters with linear recoveries.

Granted the D-tilt is a good option if you aren't set up for that and are chasing someones recovery from further towards the center stage.

 

[Afro Smash]

Yeah my vid wasn't showing the prat attack stuff, that was just the easiest way to force the CPU to Up B to the ledge, and if they're difficult to edgeguard or you're not in position to edgeguard offstage, this is a good reliable way to pop them up for follow ups

 

[Afro Smash]

Some Examples of D Tilt Ledge Snap punishes leading to kills I got off a quick session on FG, generally puts your opponent in a 50/50 position, but most of the time they'll panic airdodge after seeing you jump after them and you can punish accordingly

 

[Xygonn]

Cool video. Definitely useful.

As a side note @ Tonetta , I was playing Kipa, the Pikachu player, this past weekend and he was oddly knowledgeable about the Samus matchup. He told me its because he's played you a bunch. Go figure, lol.

@ Depth_ BTW, am I doing something wrong or can Samus really ony do turn around cc, and not breversal or wavebounce? I have no problem doing it with other characters but I'm having no luck with Samus

Turnaround B on CS only. B reverse on screw attack only. No wavebounce moves.

 

[zblaqk]

Turnaround B on CS only. B reverse on screw attack only. No wavebounce moves.

Wonder why that's the case. :s

 

[Afro Smash]

Depth_ Could you please add this tech to the OP

 

[zblaqk]

Did I miss something here?

 

[leiraD]

Depth_ Could you please add this tech to the OP

Funny thing, KidG is one of my regular practice partners. He lives a few blocks away from me and we play every week, lol.

 

[Afro Smash]

Did I miss something here?

If you saw the D Throw to Roll then you missed nothing

 

[Depth_]

Stop trolling me.

 

[zblaqk]

If you saw the D Throw to Roll then you missed nothing

Here I was thinking I missed some next level tech or something and I was just soo bad I didnt notice it. I watched like 4 times XD

 

[E.Lopez]

Just a quick question about a tech I would like to get better at:

Ledge Drop → Rising Air Dodge → B-air

This is a great option and a good scare tactic considering how powerful Samus' sweet spot b-air is near the blast zones. Hasty opponents who are tired and ready to knock a planking Samus off-stage will get a Chozo boot to the spinal cord.

Submission by @-_ellipsis_-

So I always forgot what defines 'ledge drop.' Is it push DOWN on the stick to release the ledge, or is it push AWAY from the ledge to release the ledge? (BTW are there different terms for these two different actions?). Does this tech only work with one type of ledge release and not the other, or does it matter?

Also, you can substitute reverse CS for the b-air, right?

 

[Boney]

So how do you do the B reverse CS slide? Is it just a perfect pivot? Because you can't wavebounce the charge shot on the ground either like other neutral b's right? It'd be nice if a few techniques posted here had a more detailed explanation on how to actually do them. No idea how to do the CS ledge drop buffer either.

By the way, not being able to wave bounce charge shot is bs, can Sun Salutation and other charge projectiles do it? No idea why they gimp CS unlike other projectiles on top of gimping Samus close range game as well. An easier run back charge/fire would work wonders in the neutral.

Just a quick question about a tech I would like to get better at:

So I always forgot what defines 'ledge drop.' Is it push DOWN on the stick to release the ledge, or is it push AWAY from the ledge to release the ledge? (BTW are there different terms for these two different actions?). Does this tech only work with one type of ledge release and not the other, or does it matter?

Also, you can substitute reverse CS for the b-air, right?

Ledge drop is to push away from the edge. This way you don't immediately fall down instead start falling slowly as if you were at the apex of a jump. What this means is that you're not gonna fall down as much leaving you with the time to do fairs and air dodges into the stage with enough time. Pushing down won't auto cancel them.

And yeah, you van b reverse the charge shot. You can initiate it closer to the ground than bair and nair, but I'm not sure if it'll actually come out faster. The main advantage is having a hitbox out for a longer time (it's not gonna get spot dodged) and it'll travel a longer distance so you can go farther away and keep yourself safer.