Various Samus Tech (Z-air --> F-smash Update)

[Squaddle]

Oh, that's cool! can you CC any of her other moves, or just Jab 1?

 

[MegaRiff]

What about missle cancel ledge grab?

 

[Depth_]

Oh, that's cool! can you CC any of her other moves, or just Jab 1?

There's a good video on CCable moves.

What about missle cancel ledge grab?

What do you mean?

 

[Xygonn]

There's a good video on CCable moves.



What do you mean?

Missile cancel ledge grab is where you do a side b toward stage as you run off to grab ledge. The missile doesn't shoot.

 

[Depth_]

Missile cancel ledge grab is where you do a side b toward stage as you run off to grab ledge. The missile doesn't shoot.

Oh, that one was already covered in other threads. I'll make this thread a compilation of all of our discoveries.

Oh, that's cool! can you CC any of her other moves, or just Jab 1?

Btw, in Rohin's video he's using Shield to interrupt the cool down of those attacks. Same effect as crouching, but it takes longer to act out of a shield. Crouching is optimal for followups.

 

[Afro Smash]

What about missle cancel ledge grab?

vids here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqSKanjfbm8

 

[MegaRiff]

Oh ok. I just didn't see it in this thread and thought I should be included.

 

[Squaddle]

So this just came out, and I think we can really use this to our advantage.

I notice there's a samus in the video near the end, hitting marth the frame he gets vulnerable. However, since he was at 0 percent instead of bouncing off the wall, he goes straight up and has seemingly no momentum from the hit. The timing might be tricky (and risky for the samus), but at higher percents you think the CS might trigger a stage spike?

Alternatively, so what about if a person were to snap-break with a bomb instead, since that seems to have a lingering hitbox between the first and second bursts of damage? While the other player mashes jump to tries to get back on stage, you could potentially follow up with a dair or nair. Or you could keep on dropping bombs and force them to do something risky like air-dodge back on stage or use their up-b prematurely

 

[Xygonn]

So this just came out, and I think we can really use this to our advantage.

I notice there's a samus in the video near the end, hitting marth the frame he gets vulnerable. However, since he was at 0 percent instead of bouncing off the wall, he goes straight up and has seemingly no momentum from the hit. The timing might be tricky (and risky for the samus), but at higher percents you think the CS might trigger a stage spike?

Alternatively, so what about if a person were to snap-break with a bomb instead, since that seems to have a lingering hitbox between the first and second bursts of damage? While the other player mashes jump to tries to get back on stage, you could potentially follow up with a dair or nair. Or you could keep on dropping bombs and force them to do something risky like air-dodge back on stage or use their up-b prematurely

Bomb is great for snapback and sets up for a utilt, fsmash (down angled), or dsmash.

 

[Afro Smash]

up airs lingering hitbox covers the ledge nicely too

 

[Xygonn]

up airs lingering hitbox covers the ledge nicely too

Oh yeah! And I gotta hella stage spiked by samus' uair before.

 

[Afro Smash]

Charge Cancel Bair Oos is an amazing bait, people never see it coming and after they get hit by it they either start respecting you even with your back turned or they'll continue to get punished

(Not the same Falcon in both clips)

 

[E.Lopez]

Charge Cancel Bair Oos is an amazing bait, people never see it coming and after they get hit by it they either start respecting you even with your back turned or they'll continue to get punished

(Not the same Falcon in both clips)

That's pretty awesome. After seeing you post this, I started trying it out myself and realized it's going to take a bunch of practice to pull it off. I'm using GCN controller, with shield on R, jump on L, and tilt attacks on c stick. I think I will have try a quick R to L push (almost at the same time) while flicking c stick to pull out a fast b-air? You also seem to move Samus toward the opponent which means also moving the left analog stick, but that doesn't have to be done for the b-air to hit, I think? Because then it gets pretty complicated!

 

[MegaRiff]

Charge Cancel Bair Oos is an amazing bait, people never see it coming and after they get hit by it they either start respecting you even with your back turned or they'll continue to get punished

(Not the same Falcon in both clips)

I actually find that to be very funny, since those two did not see that coming from 100 miles. Nice trick. I sometimes do the same thing but with an up air for those that like to jump towards you.

It's a shame that won't work on short characters. They seem to give me the most problems.

 

[Afro Smash]

That's pretty awesome. After seeing you post this, I started trying it out myself and realized it's going to take a bunch of practice to pull it off. I'm using GCN controller, with shield on R, jump on L, and tilt attacks on c stick. I think I will have try a quick R to L push (almost at the same time) while flicking c stick to pull out a fast b-air? You also seem to move Samus toward the opponent which means also moving the left analog stick, but that doesn't have to be done for the b-air to hit, I think? Because then it gets pretty complicated!

I generally use the Analogue Stick and A for my aerials, so for me it's:

Shield with R > Immediate jump with X > Bair

You can use the Left Trigger and C Stick, I just find it really difficult to Short Hop with it the trigger

 

[AgentM]

May have discovered some small new tech with bombs. Didn't see it posted anywhere so I figured I'd share here.

If you throw out a bomb on stage, then do a short hop f-air at/on the bomb, your landing lag is canceled by a bomb jump. Bomb jumping can actually cancel any non special attack's landing lag, as well as the landing lag of a stage canceled air dodge, but in every case except for short hop f-air, the landing lag is significantly shorter than the bomb jump. The benefit of this tech though is that you can move immediately in morph ball as opposed to being stuck in one place for the entirety of the landing lag.

I haven't tested how practical a bomb jump canceled short hop f-air is in a match, however, the timing for a bomb jump canceled short hop f-air it pretty tight, to the point where if any hits of your f-air connect, the bomb jump hitbox will fade before you land, making the bomb jump more of a back up plan if none of your hits connect.

Bomb jump canceling a stage canceled air dodge could have some real use though. If you're already dropping bombs to throw your opponent off from where you'll land, any bombs low enough to fall on the stage can make air dodging into the stage near the bomb a less unsafe option. I actually discovered this accidentally in a match against a fox; the air dodge saved me from getting hit by a dash attack, the bomb hit the fox, and the bomb jump let me retreat for slightly better spacing. It was pretty nice...

As far as I can tell though, bombs don't have any effect on any landing lag due to special moves, and can only interrupt landing lag, not actual attacks.

Edit: Meh, not very practical mid-match. Guess it's just something to keep in mind if they change anything about bombs in the future.

 

[Hapajin]

I know this isn't Samus specific, but any tips for shield dashing? (or dash shielding...?) Trying to get the hang of it, but the shield always seems to come out to slow or I do a roll on accident.

 

[Afro Smash]

Been trying to work more Up Smash in to my game and found 2 useful things:

It can cover Rolls of even ******* like Kirby!? (I guess Hurtboxes get huge at the end of Rolls? not sure if this is Kirby specific)

Dashing in to people to get deep before doing it can reliably scoop up people that would fall out after 1 hit, such as Mario

If Up Smash does cover the Roll of even the shorties of the cast, it can be a good way to cover both SH approaches and Roll behinds, so fingers crossed

 

[Tumultus]

Been trying to work more Up Smash in to my game and found 2 useful things:

It can cover Rolls of even ******* like Kirby!? (I guess Hurtboxes get huge at the end of Rolls? not sure if this is Kirby specific)

Dashing in to people to get deep before doing it can reliably scoop up people that would fall out after 1 hit, such as Mario

If Up Smash does cover the Roll of even the shorties of the cast, it can be a good way to cover both SH approaches and Roll behinds, so fingers crossed

We ABSOLUTELY need some further testing to be done on this. I just lost a tournament because I stupidly inputted a roll in a last-hit situation against a Mario. He read the roll, simply ran past it, and the moment I came out of the morph ball he hit me with one chunky up smash. Since then, I've been thinking how great it would be to have an option like that. I never imagined that our option would be identical because I've always thought our up-smash is AWFUL.

 

[Reydiance]

Been trying to work more Up Smash in to my game and found 2 useful things:

It can cover Rolls of even ******* like Kirby!? (I guess Hurtboxes get huge at the end of Rolls? not sure if this is Kirby specific)

Dashing in to people to get deep before doing it can reliably scoop up people that would fall out after 1 hit, such as Mario

If Up Smash does cover the Roll of even the shorties of the cast, it can be a good way to cover both SH approaches and Roll behinds, so fingers crossed

For the first video, Its possible that it hit Kirby due to his rolling animation of being off the ground a few frames. Meanwhile I can't seem to land running up smash on Mario in training mode, maybe he was about to jump?

 

[Tumultus]

I know this isn't Samus specific, but any tips for shield dashing? (or dash shielding...?) Trying to get the hang of it, but the shield always seems to come out to slow or I do a roll on accident.

Two things could be happening here. You can't input a shield in the initial frames of your dash, only when you transition from the "dash" animation into the "run animation," which takes just a tiny bit of time. Go on training mode and try it: input a dash and try to shield instantly. It wont happen.

The other thing that could be happening is that you're in your "skid" frames. When you're running, and suddenly stop, all characters are put through a skid animation (the length of which depends on the character, Luigi, for example, has a really long and awful one.) When you're in these skid frames you can't perform any action until Samus stops skidding across the ground. So you wont see an instant shield happening there.

Shield dashing is a bit of a confusing name because that's not exactly what's happening. I guess something like "shield-cancelled run" is more accurate. Your shield can only come up during the "run" animation. Like I said, go on training mode and try running across the stage. Just run. In the middle of your run, input the shield and see for yourself what happens. Then, get accustomed to figuring out how soon after initially dashing you can actually have your shield come up.

Hope this helped.

 

[Afro Smash]

For the first video, Its possible that it hit Kirby due to his rolling animation of being off the ground a few frames. Meanwhile I can't seem to land running up smash on Mario in training mode, maybe he was about to jump?

I think it hit him because he was dashing towards me as well, so I was able to get super deep within him to land all hits.

Might seem unsafe but after I got his shield low with the CS I knew he'd approach or take to the air, and running up smash covered both

 

[Saigon]

I haven't tested this fully, but up tilt sends your opponent above you if you get the spike hit-box on stage. This can be followed up with a up-b.

 

[Afro Smash]

'If only I could tech chase after a Bair as I can with Nair' Samus mains around the world cried out. But fear not, for Afro is here with some (possibly) new tech.

All it is is that you can reverse your CS out of a Short Hop Bair, allowing you to either:

Tech Chase

Or bait people out of shield

Pretty sure you can Shield Break as well, though I'm yet to do it

 

[MegaRiff]

'If only I could tech chase after a Bair as I can with Nair' Samus mains around the world cried out. But fear not, for Afro is here with some (possibly) new tech.

All it is is that you can reverse your CS out of a Short Hop Bair, allowing you to either:

Tech Chase

Or bait people out of shield

Pretty sure you can Shield Break as well, though I'm yet to do it

Will have to get around to practicing this. Great find.

 

[Tonetta]

I did a lot of testing with the "touch of depth" combo last night and it appears that there's a 0-death combo that works on every character (I tried 2/3 the roster before going to bed) but many of the heavier, or fast-falling characters couldn't be started from the bottom in that same position, which leads me to the next discovery - You don't need the first platform on battlefield at all, instead you can do it straight from the middle if you fast-fall in between the first and second uair just a little bit, and is what you need to do to get the combo to work on fox. While I'm on that note - Any character that this combo works on from the floor, also works on from the first platform, and in fact you can get a 0%-kill on any character (from what I have tested thus far) from the top platform in battlefield, and there are a couple characters where this is the only place that it works. Roy thus far has been the most conditional character and requires a change in the formula, you need to grab into 3 pummels, pivot upsmash, then uair uair upb. Anything less than all of the hits landing on every ability outside upb will leave roy alive. Bowser was by far the easiest character to perform this tactic on.

 

[Tonetta]

Two things could be happening here. You can't input a shield in the initial frames of your dash, only when you transition from the "dash" animation into the "run animation," which takes just a tiny bit of time. Go on training mode and try it: input a dash and try to shield instantly. It wont happen.

The other thing that could be happening is that you're in your "skid" frames. When you're running, and suddenly stop, all characters are put through a skid animation (the length of which depends on the character, Luigi, for example, has a really long and awful one.) When you're in these skid frames you can't perform any action until Samus stops skidding across the ground. So you wont see an instant shield happening there.

Shield dashing is a bit of a confusing name because that's not exactly what's happening. I guess something like "shield-cancelled run" is more accurate. Your shield can only come up during the "run" animation. Like I said, go on training mode and try running across the stage. Just run. In the middle of your run, input the shield and see for yourself what happens. Then, get accustomed to figuring out how soon after initially dashing you can actually have your shield come up.

Hope this helped.

I actually have a couple applications for what you described as a recovery option. The play isn't really great quality (you can downb out of up recover from ledge the frame you leave it) but it does showcase the tech

 

[Xygonn]

May have discovered some small new tech with bombs. Didn't see it posted anywhere so I figured I'd share here.

If you throw out a bomb on stage, then do a short hop f-air at/on the bomb, your landing lag is canceled by a bomb jump. Bomb jumping can actually cancel any non special attack's landing lag, as well as the landing lag of a stage canceled air dodge, but in every case except for short hop f-air, the landing lag is significantly shorter than the bomb jump. The benefit of this tech though is that you can move immediately in morph ball as opposed to being stuck in one place for the entirety of the landing lag.

I haven't tested how practical a bomb jump canceled short hop f-air is in a match, however, the timing for a bomb jump canceled short hop f-air it pretty tight, to the point where if any hits of your f-air connect, the bomb jump hitbox will fade before you land, making the bomb jump more of a back up plan if none of your hits connect.

Bomb jump canceling a stage canceled air dodge could have some real use though. If you're already dropping bombs to throw your opponent off from where you'll land, any bombs low enough to fall on the stage can make air dodging into the stage near the bomb a less unsafe option. I actually discovered this accidentally in a match against a fox; the air dodge saved me from getting hit by a dash attack, the bomb hit the fox, and the bomb jump let me retreat for slightly better spacing. It was pretty nice...

As far as I can tell though, bombs don't have any effect on any landing lag due to special moves, and can only interrupt landing lag, not actual attacks.

Edit: Meh, not very practical mid-match. Guess it's just something to keep in mind if they change anything about bombs in the future.

This tech has been talked about before, but I have recently found great use for it in ledge play. It also allows us to cancel the landing lag from double jumped aerials. So if you drop a bomb at the ledge, and double jump into an aerial you can cancel the landing lag. This is actually really useful for fair because you can get some nice low hitboxes then just pop yourself back off stage if you miss instead of suffering the 30 frames of landing lag, or toward your opponent if you land all the hits. It's also not half bad for dair and bair.

 

[Jonny Westside]

Just uploaded this, looked around the boards and didn't catch any mention of this. Apologies if this was discussed already.

 

[Depth_]

Just uploaded this, looked around the boards and didn't catch any mention of this. Apologies if this was discussed already.

My friend and I were talking about this a while back. Never got the chance to actually see if it worked, though. Good find, Jonny! I'm watching you in the Cali tournaments too.

 

[KayJay]

Perfect Pivot Charging, sometimes I do it at the beginning and often on the smashville plattform.

 

[DungeonMaster]

That's very nice @ Jonny Westside - is it a perfect pivot input as KayJay says? Does it work with "easy perfect pivoting" i.e. the hold down A+B with smash attack enabled?
I will add your vid and explanation to the compendium.

 

[Afro Smash]

Yh its Perfect Pivot

 

[Depth_]

Shout outs to @Scream

I've been trying to prove that Samus' jab is not entirely bad and has it's applications at higher percents for god knows how long and he's the first one to get this on video. I owe him 25 dollars for the dare, lmfao. Got him on my paycheck, tho. : ^ )

Now, here's why this is good. Samus has another kill option out of SHAD other than reverse CS or B-air. Many of us already consider SHAD U-air a godsend. It's great shield pressure and mixup potential. I frequently use SHAD for hard punishes if I can anticipate a commitment from my opponent, so as you can imagine, at high percents this really matters when you're without a CS and not in sweetspot range for f-smash, your fastest ground kill options. Just push them into it with SHAD --> U-air --> Jab. The fact that this even works when we send opponents behind us makes me shed tears of joy.

That aside, this opens doors to even more potential findings. Imagine jabbing someone out of their aerial approach to true combo into an f-smash. Now that's grimey.

Edit.. More nonsense

I'll be updating the op soon. This is just too good. Samus jab 1 op at high percents.

 

[Jonny Westside]

My friend and I were talking about this a while back. Never got the chance to actually see if it worked, though. Good find, Jonny! I'm watching you in the Cali tournaments too.

Dope! I'll be at Evo

 

[Hark17ball]

@ Depth_

Dude....those little vids are amazing. I deff need to add this to my game asap.

 

[JAZZ_]

'If only I could tech chase after a Bair as I can with Nair' Samus mains around the world cried out. But fear not, for Afro is here with some (possibly) new tech.

All it is is that you can reverse your CS out of a Short Hop Bair, allowing you to either:

Tech Chase

Or bait people out of shield

Pretty sure you can Shield Break as well, though I'm yet to do it

Now I've tried this but cant see to get the turn around, is there and input after Bair to get your direction set? or am i thinking too hard?

 

[Tonetta]

Now I've tried this but cant see to get the turn around, is there and input after Bair to get your direction set? or am i thinking too hard?

He is pivoting right before he jumps (flick the stick in the direction you want to face for a frame, then jump). It's the same imput you need when you land or to do a reverse cs which is the second half of what you're seeing in the second video.

 

[Xygonn]

Now I've tried this but cant see to get the turn around, is there and input after Bair to get your direction set? or am i thinking too hard?

After the bair he is doing a reverse charge shot. Flicking the stick toward the opponent returning to center then hitting B.

 

[Afro Smash]

you have to wait til youve nearly landed to do it, you can buffer it towards the end of bair