Official v1.2.0 Patch Discussion Thread

[PokéfreakofBACON]

According to several guys in the Kirby Discord, Kirby only received Pac-Man's neutral-B changes, and didn't get anything noteworthy, himself.

Oh god, if that's the case Kirby is gonna be mentioned in every single patch isn't he?

 

[BeatMax Sakuraba]

Boomerang might still be the same actually, so nvm that change. But the arrow change I can confirm.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Boomerang might still be the same actually, so nvm that change. But the arrow change I can confirm.

What is the arrow change? There is NO change in damage at all. Nobody has told me what angle it launches in 1.2 yet.

 

[dogass]

I'm 100% dumbfounded on Duck Hunt. Nothing looks changed so it's probably something super minuscule. I'll keep looking though.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

I'm 100% dumbfounded on Duck Hunt. Nothing looks changed so it's probably something super minuscule. I'll keep looking though.

Down-air's damage was changed. It went from 18 percent total down to about 15. (for both hits) In 1.1, first hit is 6% flat, second hit is 12% flat.

 

[J0eyboi]

Down-air's damage was changed. It went from 18 percent total down to about 15. (for both hits) In 1.1, first hit is 6% flat, second hit is 12% flat.

We've been through this, it was the sh modifier

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

We've been through this, it was the sh modifier

Oh my bad

 

[PsychoJosh]

So, one of the things that really was broken for DK was his cargo throw. If you got to around 90% and got grabbed by DK, he can carry you off stage, throw you to the blastzone and get back easily to the stage. You couldn't mash out of the cargo throw. Can anyone confirm if they fixed this?

Not really broken since he has to land a grab on a high damage character in order to do this. Sounds like it's working as intended.

 

[Dr.Chronos]

Some confirmed Greninja Nerfs:

D Tilt from 5.0 to 4.8
U Tilt from 5.6 to 5.4
Max charged Water Shuriken from 17.6 to 16.8

It seems like many other moves like the jab and smashes has been slightly nerfed, needs more labbing


lmao smash 4 flashbacks

 

[PompfMompf]

I can't confirm, but can someone check on Luigi's FAIR? I believe it launches further at higher percents. Feel free to prove me wrong!

 

[[TSON]]

This is wrong

First of all, grabbing with the first frame possible of rod can result in different damages.

Rod is very inconsistent. At each distance from the opponent, you can go forward a few pixels and get more damage then move forward a few more and get less. It is distance based but it's so inconsistent that it's practically random. We've done extensive testing and found that this is true, as can be seen in this spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16e6P2A-facXTTO_DHyiZu6KOlDC2YOnlF2W2VDlKZow/edit#gid=0

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying this is just blatant misinformation (if I am please tell me)

I'll hop into Isabelle forums at some point and try and get this figured out but note that your spreadsheet is using DISTANCE as a measurement threshold when i'm hypothesizing that it is FRAMES OUT that increases damage. Those are linked but don't necessarily correlate because a smash fishing rod toss reaches farther faster than a still one. And grounded vs. aerial grab/throw may differ too. If someone jumps into a fully extended rod and gets grabbed on the retraction, it does more than a regular full-distance grab.

When standing still, doing a fresh, grounded, unstaled grab on ZSS, then doing a smash fthrow, the difference is -0.7% between patches. Isa's sideB does more damage as the buoy is extended longer (frame-wise) but the difference is always 0.7% between old patch and this patch from what I can see. Regardless of whether we feel comfortable posting that number, though, we all agree it's different

 

[Eeveecario]

What is the arrow change? There is NO change in damage at all. Nobody has told me what angle it launches in 1.2 yet.

They mentioned the angle, it's on page 3 close to the end. (I'm on mobile)

 

[PompfMompf]

I can't confirm, but can someone check on Luigi's FAIR? I believe it launches further at higher percents. Feel free to prove me wrong!

I also think it pushes back a bit farther on ground, to produce less links.

 

[BeatMax Sakuraba]

Yink arrow changes are false. Unsure of what exactly was changed with him?

 

[captaintechnicality]

I feel like since Isabelle and Villager were both changed, the change was probably to a move they share, like slingshot, or maybe to their physical attributes like weight and speed.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

I can't confirm, but can someone check on Luigi's FAIR? I believe it launches further at higher percents. Feel free to prove me wrong!

Can you tell me what percent it kills Mario? Put Mario on the far right of the stage and test it out, I'll see if it's different in 1.1.

 

[dogass]

I also think it pushes back a bit farther on ground, to produce less links.

I just tried it against Ken at 70% and it looks the same. I'll try some higher percents.

EDIT: Tried it at 100%, knockback and how far the fighter is pushed back looks the exact same

 

[Jehtt]

Someone who can read and actually translate Japanese would be better at explaining what's happening.

"I found an inconsequential bug. If Pac-Man begins advancing with his Side B just as the pellet is hit, the original intended trailing effect from Side B will continuously come out. When I used side B once more, it returned to normal.
It's like an F91. Cool, yeah?"

 

[J0eyboi]

Some confirmed Greninja Nerfs:

D Tilt from 5.0 to 4.8
U Tilt from 5.6 to 5.4
Max charged Water Shuriken from 17.6 to 16.8

It seems like many other moves like the jab and smashes has been slightly nerfed, needs more labbing


lmao smash 4 flashbacks

Turn staling on

 

[Tikao]

Ok tested some landing lag numbers, no idea what they were before the update, but they're now these numbers (if someone else has the pre patch ones to compare)
Landing lag of all changed characters post-patch:

luigi :

nair : 8
fair : 13
dair : 12
bair : 10
uair : 7
zair : 20

kirby :

nair : 6
fair : 8
dair : 16
bair : 10
uair : 7

young link :

nair : 6
fair : 6
dair : 17
bair : 6
uair : 14
zair : 8

link :

nair : 6
fair : 11
dair : 19
bair : 6
uair : 14

Donkey Kong:

nair : 10
fair : 17
dair : 14
bair : 11
uair : 15

toon-link :

nair : 7
fair : 11
dair : 23
bair : 8
uair : 13
zair : 9

Duckhunt :

nair : 10
fair : 9
dair : 15
bair : 14
uair : 11

Greninja :

nair : 7
fair : 11
dair : 30
bair : 10
uair : 14

Ice Climbers :

nair : 7
fair : 10
dair : 20
bair : 7
uair : 14

Isabelle :

nair : 6
fair : 14
dair : 9
bair : 14
uair : 9

Villager :

nair : 8
fair : 14
dair : 12
bair : 14
uair : 12

Olimar :

nair : 13
fair : 9
dair : 18
bair : 9
uair : 18

Pac-Man :

nair : 7
fair : 10
dair : 12
bair : 13
uair : 10

 

[BeatMax Sakuraba]

The Links got the global change with their bombs. I think that's it.

 

[Spexx]

I'll hop into Isabelle forums at some point and try and get this figured out but note that your spreadsheet is using DISTANCE as a measurement threshold when i'm hypothesizing that it is FRAMES OUT that increases damage. Those are linked but don't necessarily correlate because a smash fishing rod toss reaches farther faster than a still one. And grounded vs. aerial grab/throw may differ too. If someone jumps into a fully extended rod and gets grabbed on the retraction, it does more than a regular full-distance grab.

When standing still, doing a fresh, grounded, unstaled grab on ZSS, then doing a smash fthrow, the difference is -0.7% between patches. Isa's sideB does more damage as the buoy is extended longer (frame-wise) but the difference is always 0.7% between old patch and this patch from what I can see. Regardless of whether we feel comfortable posting that number, though, we all agree it's different

Did you read the spreadsheet? It shows different damages on the same frame- it is correlated to distance, not frame. Doing rod at the same distance always leads to the same damage, but not hitting at the same frame.

Where's your proof for the damage changing between patches?

 

[FSK]

Link changes so far:

They fixed an issue where Link would drop the bomb mid aerial if he instantly caught it after bouncing on an opponent. If this was done with uair it would result in the bomb being invisible which is also gone now as a consequence.

 

[SBelmont]

What is the arrow change? There is NO change in damage at all. Nobody has told me what angle it launches in 1.2 yet.

Some YLink angles in 1.2.0 to compare with. On Marth, no DI.
Bow angle at 100%
Smash boomerang close range at 100%

 

[Dr.Chronos]

Turn staling on

Lmao, nevermind then

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Some YLink angles in 1.2.0 to compare with. On Marth, no DI.
Bow angle at 100%
Smash boomerang close range at 100%

Completely unchanged from 1.1.

 

[BeatMax Sakuraba]

Link changes so far:

They fixed an issue where Link would drop the bomb mid aerial if he instantly caught it after bouncing on an opponent. If this was done with uair it would result in the bomb being invisible which is also gone now as a consequence.

Don't forget about the global change. It affects his bombs too.

 

[DavaiZhe]

Young Link's arrows and boomerang feel VERY similar to 1.1.0. Maybe a ~5-10 degree skew if anything? Combo functionality is the same, they work into all aerials expect down air. No damage nerf(14.4 in both versions)

 

[Greave]

Be sure to test the minutiae of the input buffer system and c-stick interactions! Also, for those who have the proper equipment, it would be helpful to see if the input lag has been reduced. Previously it was about 6-7 frames, but a decrease of, say one frame, would be incredibly hard to detect and can easily be mistaken for placebo.

I appreciate all the hard work that our labbers put in to fill us in on all the changes, and make up for all the secrecy from Nintendo. Excellent work, and keep it up!

 

[shrooby]

Link changes so far:

They fixed an issue where Link would drop the bomb mid aerial if he instantly caught it after bouncing on an opponent. If this was done with uair it would result in the bomb being invisible which is also gone now as a consequence.

Can anyone else confirm or deny this change?

 

[J0eyboi]

Can anyone else confirm or deny this change?

Here's someone.

 

[Deleted member]

I swear to you, I mashed like crazy and I never escaped. I think there's a threshold of how much mashing you should do depending on %
And I guarantee you, DK gets way too many kills this way. I don't think it's fair to mash like I'm playing Melee insanely to get out of cargo at 100%

Go into controls and map the taunts on the d-pad to shield instead, that opens up the entire d-pad for mashing as well as the face buttons allowing you to mash faster physically. Hope that helps.

 

[DavaiZhe]

I wonder if this was a part of the adjustments to Pac-Man if other stuff hasn't been found for him or specifically for him like how people interact with him.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Someone who can read and actually translate Japanese would be better at explaining what's happening. Google Translate gives me this: "I found a good bug in Kusso. At the same time as Pac-Man begins to advance at the side b, effects are supposed to follow the side b at all times by cutting the food at the same time. I used it again and it went back. It looks like F91 and it's cool". Essentially, it's a visual bug.

ROB wasn't listed nor were the Marthlings, but this could fall under general gameplay changes that could have been fixed. Hopefully, because this is really weird and kind of dumb.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Looks like this is unchanged.

 

[Krysco]

I'm personally not aware of any changes but I'd just like to remind everyone that back in Sm4sh, there were some patch changes that affected Final Smashes and even victory pose changes like Robin and Ike's swords glowing for longer. Some of the changes for characters could be simple stuff like that since everyone seems focused on movement and attacks.

 

[Icey___]

Young Link's Fire Arrows were changed from 23.5% -> 28.5%

 

[DavaiZhe]

Young Link's Fire Arrows were changed from 23.5% -> 28.5%

...What? They do 14.4% in both versions...

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

shrooby The invisible bomb glitch was fixed for all three links, not just Wild.

Young Link's Fire Arrows were changed from 23.5% -> 28.5%

They were not changed in damage at all. We've been over this a few times in this thread.

 

[Dogmaster]

I checked Link's Bow, bomb and boomerang knockback angle.

Im eyeballing it vs the grid of the trianing grounds and they look untouched

 

[CryoGX]

I need someone with the game unpatched to test Kirby's FAF on Nair, as it seems to be 63 frames, while I remember someone in the past saying it was like 68 or 69.

I need to know if this was a new buff or just more placebo ;_;

 

[Myran]

As of the testing in the Olimar discord he is unchanged. This makes us believe it was the bug fix for him freezing opponents and when he got stuck to Corrin. Unfortunately we have no idea how to reliably reproduce those for testing.