Official v1.2.0 Patch Discussion Thread

[Paxtonjk]

Ice climbers back air does 3 percent less on full hop and 1 percent less on short hop

 

[dogass]

Ice climbers back air does 3 percent less on full hop and 1 percent less on short hop

With a single climber or both? I'm seeing the same percents on my end for full and short hop bair.

 

[Paxtonjk]

With a single climber or both? I'm seeing the same percents on my end for full and short hop bair.

Both

 

[dogass]

Both

What it looks like you're seeing is different numbers because of where you are hitting the opponent. I've gotten all the different possible damage percents on 1.1 and 1.2, including the 9% and 12%, but there are some other ones like 10.2%. This also all occurs when you only connect one hitbox, not both. Hitting both results in the same percentages though, at least for me.

 

[Paxtonjk]

What it looks like you're seeing is different numbers because of where you are hitting the opponent. I've gotten all the different possible damage percents on 1.1 and 1.2, including the 9% and 12%, but there are some other ones like 10.2%. This also all occurs when you only connect one hitbox, not both. Hitting both results in the same percentages though, at least for me.

Polo hits for 12 and nana hits for 9 and the 10.2 probably a short hop

Polo hits for 12 and nana hits for 9 and the 10.2 probably a short hop

10.2 is short hop

 

[dogass]

Just got the 9% Nana and 12% Popo full hop bair in 1.1 and 1.2 so it looks unchanged to me.

 

[Paxtonjk]

Just got the 9% Nana and 12% Popo full hop bair in 1.1 and 1.2 so it looks unchanged to me.

But it changed if both hit

 

[dogass]

Dunno. All full/short hop bairs I do end up with the same results on both versions.

 

[Spexx]

It seems that they nerfed Isabelle's N-Air, it was very spammable using shorthop > N-Air > fastfall > repeat. I think it now has a short buffer period, as it seems much less spammable now.

NAir hasn't changed at all, you can still SH Double NAir and do what you said (I played a lot of matches on both 1.1.0 and 1.2.0, and the labbers in the Isabelle Discord haven't found anything like this either)

Isabelle has a multijab now instead of just a single hit. Doesn't have a finisher but you can hold it in now.

She still has her old Jab. It's just one Jab that you can repeat multiple times.

I tested it and they fixed isabelles fishing pole ledge teleport glitch.

Nope! Multiple people have confirmed it's still in.

Did Isabelle's up-tilt always do 9.6% fresh? I remember it being around 10%, but I might be thinking of forward tilt.

UTilt is unchanged in damage.

 

[Magical Tuesday]

Nintendo should be giving us patch notes.

 

[MartinAW4]

For Young Link, I can confirm the damage of fire arrows was unchanged. I tested both in 1.1 and 1.2 and the base damage in training mode was 4-12% depending on charge level in both patches.

The knockback angle has not been changed either. I made screenshots of the knockback trajectories from both patches and they are completely identical.

So no changes for Young Link's arrows.

I will do thorough testing of Greninja's damage and knockback since I already made a list with the exact values for 1.1 patch, so it will be easy for me to compare them.

Edit:
For Greninja I can confirm that all of its moves have identical damage and knockback (kill percents match down to a single percent for all of its moves). So I am confident in saying that nothing was changed in terms of damage or knockback for Greninja.

That officially makes this the first time ever that Greninja did not get nerfed by the first balance patch in a Smash game it was included in!

 

[RoyMaster4]

Has there been any testing with Villager/Isabelle's pocket? Considering there were changes to items (Link bomb glitches, Pac-Man fruits), maybe that's the change with them - specifically with the bombs / fruit.

 

[Wolfirre]

Anyone have a clue of what they changed on Donkey kong

 

[Struggleton]

Can anyone else confirm this?

(Also, in hindsight, I should have listed out all the multipliers that could affect damage in the OP. At least it'll be there for next time when we'll probably get more than bug fixes.)

Spoiler: PrePatch

Spoiler: PostPatch

 

[LGameTales]

Has there been any testing with Villager/Isabelle's pocket? Considering there were changes to items (Link bomb glitches, Pac-Man fruits), maybe that's the change with them - specifically with the bombs / fruit.

One of our Isacord members played around with Pac-Man's key as Isabelle, using different specials while it's pocketed and unpocketed, having Pac-Man try to reuse it, etc. and could find nothing weird like the Twitter vid (from page 2 of this thread) in version 1.1.0.

 

[shrooby]

Spoiler: PrePatch

Spoiler: PostPatch

I'll add this to the list then, unless someone wants to provide a picture of Luigi's expression in 1.1.0 to show the contrary.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Spoiler: PrePatch

Spoiler: PostPatch

I'll add this to the list then, unless someone wants to provide a picture of Luigi's expression in 1.1.0 to show the contrary.

My luigi gives me the second expression in 1.1... Is there a way to trigger the other one?

Here's what I see.

 

[Blue Banana]

Hey, just popping in to say what I've got as I did some impromptu testing on the Discord server:
- Base damage values for smashes, aerials, and throws seem to be unchanged. For that matter, the color-specific damage multipliers for those also seem to be the same.
- Aerials and smashes are still disjoints and items/projectiles, respectively.
- Values for damage per tick for Pikmin Throw with red/blue/yellow and white are unchanged.
- The landing lag values that Tikao posted are the same as pre-patch.
- FAFs for Up Smash and Pikmin Order are the same as pre-patch.
- I have tested standing, dash, and pivot grabs with 3 pikmin, and they all have the same FAFs pre-patch. I'm assuming that all the other grab FAFs with less Pikmin are the same.

I'm planning to test more when I have the time, but so far I believe that nothing has changed for Olimar gameplay-wise.

Alright, did a bit more thorough testing:
- No damage value changes to jabs, tilts, dash attack, or sideB
- FAF values for nearly all the attacks are the same, unfortunately I didn't thoroughly test all the attacks out on 1.1.0 before updating, but I assume that they're the same too.
- The first frame when the hitbox for the attacks I tested (jab, tilts, smashes, grabs, most aerials) is active are the same as 1.1.0, so I'm assuming no changes to active frames on attacks either.
- Forgot to mention this since I tested it earlier, but no changes to the super armor interval on whistle.

This is leading me to confidently believe that there are no gameplay changes to Olimar and any changes to him would be bugfixes.

 

[EmLeingod]

Isabelle's down-b seems to activate slower now? Could you always run over it and not get hit by it? I don't remeber this ever happening pre-patch and it's happened to me multiple times since.

 

[Rocketjay8]

Tried editing these together but nothing was working so maybe someone else can slow them down and analyze better than I can:

Input lag in 1.1.0:

Input lag in 1.2.0:

This can't accurately measure the actual delay, but considering it's the exact same setup, it should be able to spot differences if any exist.

Have you plugged in the black USB into the switch's 3.0 port on the back of the switch? I heard that it fixes some of the input delay.

 

[LGameTales]

If someone still has 1.1.0, they could look into if Villager's and Isabelle's final smashes don't have invincibility. They both do in 1.2.0, but I hear someone saying Villager's didn't in 1.1.0.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Isabelle's down-b seems to activate slower now? Could you always run over it and not get hit by it? I don't remeber this ever happening pre-patch and it's happened to me multiple times since.

Several characters have been able to run over the Lloid trap. When it activates it takes 11 frames to become a hitbox.

If someone still has 1.1.0, they could look into if Villager's and Isabelle's final smashes don't have invincibility. They both do in 1.2.0, but I hear someone saying Villager's didn't in 1.1.0.

Villager cannot be hurt during his final smash in 1.1

 

[LGameTales]

It looks like I didn't quite understand what they meant. Here is what they were referring to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzqRb4Xth7I

This does not seem to happen in 1.2.0. (I cannot make it happen.)

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

It looks like I didn't quite understand what they meant. Here is what they were referring to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzqRb4Xth7I

This does not seem to happen in 1.2.0. (I cannot make it happen.)

Can confirm this does happen for both characters in 1.1. They're vulnerable to attacks after the Final Smash's final hit and can't block or dodge them before regaining control.

 

[LGameTales]

Can confirm this does happen for both characters in 1.1. They're vulnerable to attacks after the Final Smash's final hit and can't block or dodge them before regaining control.

I think this is the Villager and Isabelle change. Both characters can't be interrupted by Bowser's Neutral B before their final smashes' final hits in 1.2.0.

 

[S_B]

Have you plugged in the black USB into the switch's 3.0 port on the back of the switch? I heard that it fixes some of the input delay.

This is the first I've ever heard this. Where'd you hear it?

 

[Rocketjay8]

This is the first I've ever heard this. Where'd you hear it?

It was from a tweet on discord, it got deleted though. I'm not exactly sure if the delay will 100% go away or if it got rid of any at all.

 

[S_B]

It was from a tweet on discord, it got deleted though. I'm not exactly sure if the delay will 100% go away or if it got rid of any at all.

Well, I can test it tomorrow and see if the videos show any difference.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I think this is the Villager and Isabelle change. Both characters can't be interrupted by Bowser's Neutral B before their final smashes' final hits in 1.2.0.

If you're sure it's not happening in 1.2. All I can confirm is that the bug in the video (where villager/isabelles's final smash can be interrupted on the final hit and doesn't launch the victim) was in 1.1. For a more consistent testing method, throw a smart bomb at villager. Smart bombs are hitting every frame and last a long time so you don't have to worry about timing the throw.

 

[Runic_SSB]

This is the first I've ever heard this. Where'd you hear it?

I can personally attest to it. When I first got the game, I plugged the GC adapter into the side and it felt like molasses, but plugging it into the back instantly fixed the lag problem. Some people said it didn't make a difference, but for me and others it definitely did.

 

[ExiledTroll]

idk if it's the only change to duck hunt, but it is definitely easier to kill with their final smash

me and a friend set up a bunch of bots against eachother in 1.1.0 and noticed that for some reason duck hunt's final smash didnt send people flying very far if they were around 50% damage

but after updating to 1.2.0 i tried too see if this still happened, but it seems to be an insta kill at 50% damage just like similar final smashes such as fox's

 

[The_Bookworm]

A little of topic, but do you guys know how to create a chart on Smashboards like in the patch notes?

 

[Exalrated]

What changed about Luigi?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Any changes to Diddy? I noticed nothing as of yet.

 

[J0eyboi]

Isabelle's down-b seems to activate slower now? Could you always run over it and not get hit by it? I don't remeber this ever happening pre-patch and it's happened to me multiple times since.

That's always been a thing. Isabelle's mine is just painfully slow for some reason.

 

[Caiahar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OssKzRHG2HE#t=01m53s

At 1:53, MrConCon claims/shows that Luigi can now do two Fairs after a jump without any lag, whereas pre-patch Luigi could do two fairs but had lag. Can someone verify that?

 

[J0eyboi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OssKzRHG2HE#t=01m53s

At 1:53, MrConCon claims/shows that Luigi can now do two Fairs after a jump without any lag, whereas pre-patch Luigi could do two fairs but had lag. Can someone verify that?

Lagless SH double fair was a thing in 4, so I'm guessing this was always a thing.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OssKzRHG2HE#t=01m53s

At 1:53, MrConCon claims/shows that Luigi can now do two Fairs after a jump without any lag, whereas pre-patch Luigi could do two fairs but had lag. Can someone verify that?

Nothing prevents short hop double fair in 1.1. He will autocancel the second one as long as you don't delay either one.

 

[-Volva-]

For Luigi I have the feeling that his grab got buffed, lesser starting and ending lag.
I can be wrong but it feels faster now in 1.2.0.

 

[YOJOEHOJO]

I'm not sure if this has been brought up but, it seems that Isabelle can now catch the neutral special of the Belmonts while as before she couldn't. I was playing around with her and Simon rather heavily before the patch and every time I tried to catch the axe it wouldn't go in, while it does now. It could be, actually, that they slightly increased the range of her neutral b since I've also noticed that Samus' range attacks get pulled in from quite far since the update.

Can anyone else attest to this?