US Senate Repeals "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

[Merkuri]

The lack of respect for the professionalism of our armed forces is astounding.

I'm glad our military is finally catching up with Albania, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Republic of China, Colombia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Republic of Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, The Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Slovenia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, United Kingdom, Bermuda, and Uruguay. These countries have had integrated forces for years without any of the purported impacts happening, proving that there's no threat to unit cohesion or national security.

I've been so busy that I hadn't had time to keep us up with this debate.

HEY EVERYONE Doh just copy and pasted this list from wikipedia. He doesn't have a point here, he is very stupidly assuming that there has never been any issues with homosexuals in the milataries. I can guarantee you he could never find a source to back up his ludicrous statement that there have never been any incidences of homosexual related problems in this militaries.

 

[DoH]

How is that assumption any more ludicrous than your assumption that there would be problems with gays in the military? Oh wait, there's no comparison at all, as your argument has been empirically denied.

http://www.palmcenter.org/publications/dadt/gays_foreign_militaries_2010

http://www.palmcenter.org/publicati..._say_about_impact_openly_gay_service_military

All of those studies say the same thing. The fears and concerns about recruitment, privacy, harassment are all unfounded. Lifting of bans has only served to strengthen unit cohesion and troop morale. Even if there are some issues, they are completely negligible in the grand scheme of things.

"Concern that the repeal of DADT will reduce the number of volunteers is unfounded, according to Dr. Nathaniel Frank, primary author of the Palm Center Report. In Britain and Canada, roughly two-thirds of the military said it would refuse to serve with open gays, but in reality no more than three people in each country actually resigned, according to the report."

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Glob...ell-How-do-other-countries-treat-gay-soldiers

In countries such as the UK and Canada, there have been no serious impacts to the lifting of a ban, despite the predictions of naysayers.

Additionally, I've outlined several detrimental impacts that stem from DADT in my DWYP from a while back, here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=189758

Studies have shown that living in the closet has a negative impact on troop cohesion and to the individual soldier's health, additionally leaving them open to blackmail and sabotage from others.

Gays have always been in the military, now people are realizing that it simply makes no difference. These men and women are professionals who do their job and take order. Your contempt for facts not only shows your heterosexism, but your disrespect for the American soldier.

 

[Grey Belnades]

It's about time.

This is great news and a good step towards full civil rights for LBGTs.

D'Oh, you really shouldn't waste your time on a troll. >_>

 

[Crimson King]

I think, for the sake of killing the awesome news article, we just let any opinions go unanswered from here on out. If you want to start a debate to what someone has to say on this, feel free to do so in the Debate Hall, but other than that, it's not really the place to argue.

 

[TigerWoods]

Just a nice little anecdote...

Homosexuals of ancient Greece were conisdered to be fine warriors. There have been a few tales of warrior-lovers... some of which were burried together when they both died in battle.

This was usually reserved for married couples.

The Beserkers and the Archers of Lesbos were good examples XD.

 

[Fuelbi]

Just a nice little anecdote...

Homosexuals of ancient Greece were conisdered to be fine warriors. There have been a few tales of warrior-lovers... some of which were burried together if they both died in battle.

This was usually reserved for married couples.

The Beserkers and the Archers of Lesbos were good examples XD.

Thank you for pointing out what I was about to point out

 

[Fried Ice Cream]

The Beserkers and the Archers of Lesbos were good examples XD.

Dohohoho, well played!

 

[TigerWoods]

I think, for the sake of killing the awesome news article, we just let any opinions go unanswered from here on out. If you want to start a debate to what someone has to say on this, feel free to do so in the Debate Hall, but other than that, it's not really the place to argue.

I dont mean to seem like I'm debating you, because I do agree that the mindless arguing is stupid (and I have taken part in it).... However I think letting opinions go unanswered is a bad idea.

I mean it is a forum after all... we should be sharing ideas even if we are butting heads. What's the fun in keeping opinions to yourself?

I'm all for instating some sort of decorum though...

Anyway, I really want to make some sort of political statement by serving openly in the millitary, but that's just my ego talking. I really want someone to succeed openly.

 

[El Nino]

This thread needs less arguing and more dancing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InBXu-iY7cw

 

[Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises]

I think Merkuri is a great troll.

And this homosexuality thing is hilarious.

 

[Crimson King]

I dont mean to seem like I'm debating you, because I do agree that the mindless arguing is stupid (and I have taken part in it).... However I think letting opinions go unanswered is a bad idea.

I mean it is a forum after all... we should be sharing ideas even if we are butting heads. What's the fun in keeping opinions to yourself?

I'm all for instating some sort of decorum though...

Anyway, I really want to make some sort of political statement by serving openly in the millitary, but that's just my ego talking. I really want someone to succeed openly.

The problem is the argument dwindles down to "Stop being who you were born as" from one side, while the other side has to be insulted and respond back as maturely as possible.

If the thread were about a race issue, and people were saying "Just stop being so 'black' and act more 'white.'" The thread would be shutdown without hesitation. I like the thread, so I want to keep it going.

 

[TigerWoods]

Oh I see what you're saying. More or less I was speaking about issues that can be debated more... logically lol.

 

[Merkuri]

I think Merkuri is a great troll.

And this homosexuality thing is hilarious.

Lol because everyone who disagrees with homosexuality must be a troll right?

Be smarter.

The problem is the argument dwindles down to "Stop being who you were born as" from one side, while the other side has to be insulted and respond back as maturely as possible.

If the thread were about a race issue, and people were saying "Just stop being so 'black' and act more 'white.'" The thread would be shutdown without hesitation. I like the thread, so I want to keep it going.

Don't equate being gay with being black or being white. Your race is a part of your biological make up. Being say is your sexual orientation, it's a preference. It's not who they are, it's who they chose to be.

As an administrator I don t think it would kill you t try and be objective.

 

[SuperBowser]

Being gay is not a preference.

http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx

 

[Fuelbi]

Lol because everyone who disagrees with homosexuality must be a troll right?

It's the way you disagree, not the fact that you disagree

Don't equate being gay with being black or being white. Your race is a part of your biological make up. Being say is your sexual orientation, it's a preference. It's not who they are, it's who they chose to be.

Why do I feel like I'm losing (even more than I already have) brain cells reading this

And why the hell was I tempted to press the button that shows this guy's post?

 

[Crimson King]

Because my personal opinions are totally reliant on my status on the message boards.

Despite what you think, I've heard enough anecdotal evidence to know for a fact being gay isn't a choice of theirs. One was completely disowned by his extended family, and contemplated suicide for a while before just living his life. His "choice" was fought for a long time (he tried to publicly like girls and date girls, but that failed), so when he came out, he was finally happy.

Really though, if being gay is a choice, and since you are saying ALL sexual orientation is a choice, find a man attractive. Actively choose to find a man attractive on a subconscious level. I know with me, I am just attracted to women. I don't have a real archtype woman that I find attractive, but instead I find most, women I come across as attractive. I cannot think of a single occurrence when I found a man attractive.

 

[SuperBowser]

merkuri is probably bisexual.

I never really understood the bizarre, blind, unrelenting claim homosexuality is a choice.

 

[Luigitoilet]

It's really the greatest tool for someone who hates homosexuals and wants to feel validated.

surely not talking about Merkuri here, after all he "ACTUALLY HAS A GAY FRIEND"

 

[Fuelbi]

"ACTUALLY HAS A GAY FRIEND"

Wait he actually gave that excuse?

It's like saying something racist about blacks, but you actually having a black friend makes it alright

 

[Crimson King]

merkuri is probably bisexual.

I never really understood the bizarre, blind, unrelenting claim homosexuality is a choice.

This assumption isn't far off: http://74.125.155.132/scholar?hl=en...nloads/homophobia_and_homosexual_arousal.pdf+

 

[DTP]

Actually nvm. You're not worth it~

 

[El Nino]

Don't equate being gay with being black or being white. Your race is a part of your biological make up.

Race is a social construct.

 

[1048576]

I think it's about time someone prominent delivers a new "I Have a (Rainbow) Dream" speech. I just can't think of who would be best to deliver it.

 

[DoH]

I'm working on one entitled 'I Have a Dreamsicle'

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Don't equate being gay with being black or being white. Your race is a part of your biological make up. Being say is your sexual orientation, it's a preference. It's not who they are, it's who they chose to be.

As an administrator I don t think it would kill you t try and be objective.

Your sexual orientation is not a choice. This has been proven fairly conclusively. You can as much "turn straight" as you can "turn white". And while there are reasons that homosexuals are, in an evolutionary sense, "worse" than heterosexuals, the world is so overpopulated and there is such a low percentage of homosexuals that it simply doesn't matter, and we go with what common sense demands-treating them with dignity and respect just like any other human being!!!

Just imagine for a moment, Merkuri, that we, all the scientists that have looked into this, and thousands of homosexuals who keep saying this (plus the logic that if you could choose your sexuality, heterosexuals could potentially become homosexual-never seen that happen), are right. Would that change your stance on homosexuality at all?

 

[deepseadiva]

This is a historic day for LGBT citizens, as it is the first time standalone positive legislation for members of our community has passed.

When I initially read this, I thought the poster was Dre.

"DRE IS GAY???"

"...makes sense. He's pretty good looking after all. Though I wonder why he always argu- *looks at user* OHHHHHH."

This thread needs less arguing and more dancing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InBXu-iY7cw

Brilliant.

Don't equate being gay with being black or being white. Your race is a part of your biological make up. Being say is your sexual orientation, it's a preference. It's not who they are, it's who they chose to be.

BRILLIANT.

 

[TigerWoods]

Do you have any conclusive evidence of this, Merkuri?

 

[Fuelbi]

homosexuals are, in an evolutionary sense, "worse" than heterosexuals,

Where do bisexuals stand in this anyways?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Where do bisexuals stand in this anyways?

Good question. Depends where you swing honestly; homosexuals are technically able to have offspring, but probably won't unless there is some form of cultural edict ensuring that they somehow get it on with a member of the opposite sex. Therefore they are evolutionarily "defect" (I use this term very loosely). However, Bisexuals can swing both ways... IMO: Bisexuals: master race.

 

[Crimson King]

Where do bisexuals stand in this anyways?

It's largely contended that since there are no 100% in things, there are ONLY bisexuals. Straight people are in the 90%+ heterosexual range, and Gay people are in the 90%+ homosexual range, but they are still degrees of bisexual. I cannot remember which psychologist actually said this, but it was someone credible.

 

[TigerWoods]

CK are you refering to the "scale of 1-10" thing?

 

[Crimson King]

When I heard it, it was based on percentages.

 

[El Nino]

The Kinsey scale?
http://www.iub.edu/~kinsey/resources/ak-hhscale.html

 

[None Shall Pass]

Merkuri, can you actually provide sound reasoning?

You're simply just repeating the same arguments, all of them devoid of any refutations.

The homophobia you blatantly display is quite sad. Straight people are only attracted to particular potential mates, what makes homosexual oriented people any different? Just because a man is gay, doesn't mean they will automatically want to have sexual intercourse with every single straight, or gay, male.

They have preferences. Since when does being homosexual equate to being a perverted rapist? Think about these unreasonable, and frankly, ******** concepts you're unsuccessfully trying to employ.

People can have opinions, but yours are just biased and incorrect. You have gay friends? Really? And none of them feel prejudiced or discriminated against when these tirades of yours proceed?

Or, you simply hide them? Gay people are human beings. They have feelings, and deserve to be appreciated, respected, and treated normally.

Stop being so ignorant. Stop repeating yourself and elaborate if we're "judging" you.

*Edit* Yes, I'm aware my time is probably going to be wasted debating with him. But, from his previous posts around the forum, Merkuri is a bible-thumper. Being gay is an inherent biological factor, one that's genetically responsible for sexual orientation.

Sure, environments can -bring- these preferences out if the individual is not scared for their lives, but the sexual condition has always existed by default; just like skin colour.

 

[RATED]

USA military is going to get *****!

Merkuri= Gay

----

bye.

 

[DTP]

Because my personal opinions are totally reliant on my status on the message boards.

Despite what you think, I've heard enough anecdotal evidence to know for a fact being gay isn't a choice of theirs. One was completely disowned by his extended family, and contemplated suicide for a while before just living his life. His "choice" was fought for a long time (he tried to publicly like girls and date girls, but that failed), so when he came out, he was finally happy.

Really though, if being gay is a choice, and since you are saying ALL sexual orientation is a choice, find a man attractive. Actively choose to find a man attractive on a subconscious level. I know with me, I am just attracted to women. I don't have a real archtype woman that I find attractive, but instead I find most, women I come across as attractive. I cannot think of a single occurrence when I found a man attractive.

Your sexual orientation is not a choice. This has been proven fairly conclusively. You can as much "turn straight" as you can "turn white". And while there are reasons that homosexuals are, in an evolutionary sense, "worse" than heterosexuals, the world is so overpopulated and there is such a low percentage of homosexuals that it simply doesn't matter, and we go with what common sense demands-treating them with dignity and respect just like any other human being!!!

Just imagine for a moment, Merkuri, that we, all the scientists that have looked into this, and thousands of homosexuals who keep saying this (plus the logic that if you could choose your sexuality, heterosexuals could potentially become homosexual-never seen that happen), are right. Would that change your stance on homosexuality at all?

Merkuri, can you actually provide sound reasoning?

You're simply just repeating the same arguments, all of them devoid of any refutations.

The homophobia you blatantly display is quite sad. Straight people are only attracted to particular potential mates, what makes homosexual oriented people any different? Just because a man is gay, doesn't mean they will automatically want to have sexual intercourse with every single straight, or gay, male.

They have preferences. Since when does being homosexual equate to being a perverted rapist? Think about these unreasonable, and frankly, ******** concepts you're unsuccessfully trying to employ.

People can have opinions, but yours are just biased and incorrect. You have gay friends? Really? And none of them feel prejudiced or discriminated against when these tirades of yours proceed?

Or, you simply hide them? Gay people are human beings. They have feelings, and deserve to be appreciated, respected, and treated normally.

Stop being so ignorant. Stop repeating yourself and elaborate if we're "judging" you.

*Edit* Yes, I'm aware my time is probably going to be wasted debating with him. But, from his previous posts around the forum, Merkuri is a bible-thumper. Being gay is an inherent biological factor, one that's genetically responsible for sexual orientation.

Sure, environments can -bring- these preferences out if the individual is not scared for their lives, but the sexual condition has always existed by default; just like skin colour.

My 3 favorite posts in this thread, btw.

Quoting them al for emphasis.

 

[Merkuri]

I don't know. I looked in to this topic a bit and I'm having a hard time finding studies that state people choose to be gay. Also I'm starting to feel kind of bad condemning people this way. I'm saying sorry to everyone I offended. I think I'll drop my position on this argument now.

 

[deepseadiva]

Wow... I don't think I've dropped my jaw at a post before.

...good stuff Merk.

 

[Crimson King]

I don't know. I looked in to this topic a bit and I'm having a hard time finding studies that state people choose to be gay. Also I'm starting to feel kind of bad condemning people this way. I'm saying sorry to everyone I offended. I think I'll drop my position on this argument now.

Such studies don't exist after the 70s. Though, if this post isn't a lie/sarcastic, I definitely gained respect over changing your opinion, even a little.

 

[Luigitoilet]

I don't know. I looked in to this topic a bit and I'm having a hard time finding studies that state people choose to be gay. Also I'm starting to feel kind of bad condemning people this way. I'm saying sorry to everyone I offended. I think I'll drop my position on this argument now.

This is great news, if you are serious!