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Upstate New York Tournament Thread

hubble

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Messages
928
Location
Rochester, NY
mana,

how do i get better at tech chasing and combos with falcon

i kind of feel like i hit a wall, i can do 2/3 hit basic combos but cant pull off zero to deaths except for randomly

is it going to help if i practice tech chasing vs cpus? send me a pm or something
 

JesiahTEG

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
4,126
Location
Rochester, NY
Burak- Glad to see you're really trying to improve dude. You the man.

Thanks to everyone for coming out last night. I struggled with giving advice a little bit, but I'm going to do my best here.

Humps- Man, even though I'm better than you at Melee you're really inspirational to me. You're the coolest guy, have a great attitude, and even though you have a lot of responsibilities due to family, you still play a lot and try to improve. That's why I want you to become good so bad. Smash can really affect you emotionally in a positive way when you start to see results that you worked hard on, and I don't want you to get demotivated or feel like you're not improving...Seriously, ANYONE can become good at this game, no matter where you live, how often you play or what you have going on in your life. That being said...

Stick with Marth man. Link is cool but I think your Marth has awesome potential. You need to study game knowledge more, and start to cultivate a more efficient, solid playstyle. You're all over the place right now, with no regards to percent, risk/reward or any idea of what moves are going to connect where. (For the most part.)

You're at a very beginner's level, and before trying to move onto a higher level, I want to see you master the beginner's steps.

Learn Dash Dancing with Marth- The main goal is to bait an attack and then dash away and punish with a grab. After that it gets tricky, but work on doing that for now. Make that one of your main forms of movement.

Cut out ALL of your unnecessary attacks, which are A LOT. You are swinging a lot when your opponent isn't there. It's a reaction to you THINKING that they are going to be in range of your sword. This is a huge new player mistake. Every action you make needs to have a purpose.

Let's put it this way. Your Marth moves around and swings when the opponent gets close, with random moves like Ftilt, Fair, Fsmash etc. Sometimes you hit them, sometimes you don't. When you do hit them, you get no reward because at low percents those don't lead into anything. Then you reset to neutral and repeat the process. You're playing in the dark, and you have to ask yourself, "What am I learning from this? How much better is this making me?"

Here's what you should be doing as a gameplan.

Dash dancing close to them and then moving away. This ALONE will yield FAR greater results. Now you have an action that you're taking which is causing a reaction. Now, even if it's not working as well as you like at first, YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO GO ON. You have something to WORK WITH. You can DD and pay attention to what they do. There's a cause for your actions now, THEN you focus on how to punish their reaction to your dash dance. You have direction.

Then you punish with something that will lead to something else, most likely a grab.

You'll have to practice this vs people which will be hard to do at home, but what you can do is practice DD'ing, and also reading on the Marth boards/watching vids of how to combo properly.

There's certain guaranteed things that work and don't work. You want to memorize them all and get good at them. You want your combos to be something you UNDERSTAND as opposed to something you're just making up as you go along and hoping for the best.

That being said dude, when you do get hits off a lot of them are from GREAT predictions. Your prediction skills vs players of your level/below are really, really good. It's not the mindgames you need to work on right now, it's the game itself.

Bobby can definitely become a top player in the area, and with enough dedication if he ever wants to, definitely in the U.S. I can see it in him for sure.

You're at the lower levels now where you probably feel like you're in the dark a lot. If you want me to train you in terms of letting you combo me, telling you what to do better and just doing drills and stuff lemme know man, we'll do some 1 on 1 stuff. I really wanna see you **** haha.


A nub- Dude, seriously, DO NOT STOP PRACTICING. I know I'm way more into Smash than most people, but seriously if I were you I'd dedicate all of my free time to practicing tech skill. Your potential is INSANE. I say Bobby has potential and I truly mean it, as well as Juni, Foy, and lots of others I've played with. (Anyone can become great but some people I notice the potential faster than others.)...But when we play and you occasionally bust out your ridiculous combos/pressure, I really see you in the future being able to compete with me, and being one of the few in WNY who can.

Idk what it is, but like even when thinking about other players here with tons of potential I'm never like frightened of playing them a few months or a year down the road, but your Falco REALLY truly ***** me sometimes. Not in general, but in certain instances.

I'll repeat it again: WORK ON TECH SKILL. Learn to love it dude, learn to make it a part of why you play Smash. Get satisfaction and fulfillment from spending hours drilling and practicing, and then playing someone and ****** them with how much better you've gotten. That's how you will develop amazing tech skill.

I read a lot about top athletes/performers all around the world, and the one thing they have in common is that, although they are focused on results, that is secondary to them. What's of their primary concern is their practice. They LOVE to practice, they look forward to it. It's about enjoying the process of improving, not about improving at all costs.

Develop a method for practicing your tech skill. What I do is repeat the same thing over and over 30 times in a row, and every time I mess it up, I start over. I also pay very conscious and close attention to when I mess up, because there is always a reason for it.

I never just mess up and then try again without thinking. I think to myself, "I didn't jump out of my shine. That means I most likely jumped too fast. Slow it down after the shine."

Then I do Nair shine and when I shine, I consciusly tell myself to slow the jump down. I focus on each and every part of whatever it is I'm practicing, and then I put it all together.

Snowman was telling me yesterday how fluid I look (Which made me feel really good btw, thanks man haha.) and it really made me think back to practicing every little part of my tech skill, as individual aspects of my game. It sure didn't feel fluid at the time, but in the end it's like legos. You just gotta put it all together LOL

Armando- **** dude, idk we didn't play that much lol. One thing that will take you far is how much you enjoy the game. I can tell you have so much fun with it, and there are players who are a lot better than you in this region who don't enjoy it as much. If they got to their level like that, you can definitely get to that level/surpass them with a decent amount of ease.

One thing I can say is you need to develop a very deep passion for learning the ins and outs of Falcon. It's easy to get bored with your character sometimes, so you switch around to have fun/do cool things. Maybe you watch vids of other people's characters and it inspires you to play them. That's cool once in a while but to REALLY improve, you gotta draw inspiration from within, and enjoy working on your Falcon.

That's what I'm doing right now, trying to play Mostly Marth (although w/o my controller I kinda **** around more but w/e). Practice EVERY little detail with Falcon. Practice the best ways to approach certain characters. Pay attention to when your approaches get stuffed and why, then fix it. If Marth is just Fairing you as you approach, try DD'ing as close as possible to him to scare him into fairing, then punish with a grab/knee. Even if you mess it up, go back and repeat it until you either get it to work, or understand the idea you came up with won't work, then try another.

After a while, this process gets addicting and you begin to look forward to improving in every match to the point where you can't wait for the next match, and then before you know it all of a sudden you're ****** people. Do it man, I know you can. You gotta have a little bit more of a killer instinct I feel. You've definitely already gotten better though.

Hmm who else is there.

Foy you gotta get a new controller, explore the game on a deeper level and begin to put in hard work in specific areas of your game. You've gotten RIDICULOUSLY good just by playing friendlies, but in terms of the discipline of Smash, you don't have any. Lots of times you mess up tech chase grabs with falcon by like an inch. I think in your head you just gotta keep practicing it in friendlies, but you gotta explore it deeper.

You gotta ask yourself, "Is there a reason I'm messing it up?" Because when I think of that specific problem, I immediately think of two reasons.

1. You don't position yourself properly after Dthrow, so you dthrow them but it's going to be hard/impossible to get to where you need to be to punish. Explore DD'ing after dthrowing to position yourself better. Change the lengths of your DD's to have a better chance of punishing, or DD closer to where they land when you dthrow them. This will allow you to punish better.

2. You probably aren't 100% familiar with the tech roll animations of each character- They're all different. Sit down and figure them out, that way when you're dthrowing you can be like "Oh, This character's tech roll away animation is not very long, so I can just either stand still or DD very quickly and in a small range in order to punish. But THIS character's tech roll animation is very long, so after Dthrow I'm going to do long DD's until they tech so I can be positioned better. Also, this will help you with landing Knees and stomps after tech chases, because you'll know exactly where they are going to end up after they tech roll.

(Btw, I'm going to be doing #2 myself. I think it's extremely important and i haven't sat down to do it yet.)

I can't think of anything else, but I do want to say one last thing.

No matter what, we can ALWAYS practice tech skill. Tech skill is amazing and it's what makes people's jaws drop when they watch you. There are lots of beautiful aspects to Melee, some are harder to develop than others.

To me one of the most beautiful things is when a great player disregards the concept of "covering options," and does an action to provoke the opponent, and completely predicts what they're going to do. The risk is stupidly high because if the opponent has 7 options they're only choosing to cover 1, but when they get it it's beautiful to me.

An example is when Amsah Ftilted Zhu's shield and then WD'd back into perfect range to punish his roll, and just waited. He got the grab.

My point is though, these are things that are hard to master and develop. They come with experience and time.

But, we ALL have the ability to shape and mold the best tech skill possible. It takes discipline, hard work and going through a lot of frustration, but it's something that is so underrated it's not even funny. It's necessary, it's important. When I went to NC, even the low- mid level foxes/falcos could do more technically than everyone here besides me.

When they got a hit, I got combo'd hard, and they all could move very well throughout the stage and do necessary things.

The level of tech skill in WNY is insanely low compared to other regions. To each and every player that claims to be very dedicated and want to improve, I challenge you to spend as much time as possible developing your tech skill.

At this point in regards to our region's growth, I would love to see a huge jump in tech skill.

That being said, love you all and come play with me more. :)
 

a nub

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
785
Location
Rochester, NY/ Yonkers, NY
melee practice was cool. I might actually get good at this game at this rate

!!

also who took my melee disc out at smash club w/out telling me? I dont mind ppl using it but let me know next time =/

now idk where that thing even ended up
 

darkoblivion12

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 24, 2009
Messages
1,102
Location
Buffalo
Similar to Jesse's post:
Thanks to everyone that showed to smash club. I hope you people keep showing up. Smash club is a great opportunity for people who aren't heading over to the apartment, and it was great to actually see a bunch of people that I hadn't seen in months (burak, snowman, etc).

In response to the the smash fest at Jesse's place. I'd really like to show up there sometimes, maybe the next time **** goes down there I'll head over. Last night was just a really bad time for me (migraine johns).

tl;dr- good **** guys keep playing smash, keep showing up to smash club.
 

ViciousEnd

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Messages
297
Smashfest was fun. But I had one issue. Someone spilled their hot cocoa or whatever all over my desk, did not tell me, and made no evident effort to even clean it up. As a result a book i was borrowing from my dad got damaged. Because of this I am not allowing my room to be used for official smash fests for some time because I don't feel like I should have my space (garbage left everywhere routinely) and my property (not even mine this time, and that's the real ***** of it) disrespected any longer.

That being said here is some feed back for the two people I played:

A nub:

-Learn your safe laser distances: A lot times I could force you to laser at me because you had some predictable laser habits, and it put you in bad situations. Really pay attention to the reward you get out of each laser, and learn to eliminate the ones netting you negative rewards.

-Learn how to cover options: There were just times where I felt safe in disadvantaged positions because there was no presence from you. I'd get free escapes or counter attacks. You have to really learn what your options are doing to shut down their options, and then at higher levels of play realize they are thinking the same things, so you react to the options you aren't covering.

-Learn how to maximize punishes: Every opening should become a free flow exercise in exploring your characters potential to take a stock of a first hit. When you hit confirm take a step back for a minute and think long and hard about what all your possible next hits are, and what those will reward you, and how to space your self properly with that follow up to secure more follow ups. Really explore Falco's combo potential. The beauty of him as a character is I feel like he has forever and a day to think about his next moves, and all his options can really string together seamlessly when understood fully to really **** people.

Eaode:

-Learn when you can attack, and if you should: Falcon is a very limited approach character I feel. With him it's critical to understand when you can safely attack because all the top characters have a plethora of tools to really hinder his approaches. So learn when they are safe. Also, understand that because information is so important, it can also be advantageous to sit back a little longer, and wait past your first opportunity. It give you a chance to explore your opponent's habits more thoroughly, and then allow you to more efficiently dismantle their strategies.

-Dash Dancing: I suggest spending some time with Jesse in the lab with this one. His understanding and application far exceeds what I can even begin to explain or demonstrate, so he will be the one with the much more in depths answer to this matter of your game play. The reason I listed this is because while your dash dancing isn't bad, it's such a fundamental part of Falcon as a character that players need to really invest a lot of time to reap the rewards of it.

-Match-ups: Because Falcon isn't as good as the other top tiers, he has to change up his game plan much more so when faced with a variety of match-ups. All your combos change (kind of drastically) from character to character, as do your offensive and defensive options. Falco and Fox can largely approach match-ups with a similar game plan. Falcon does not have this luxury. Learning how to intelligently approach different match ups will be very critical to your success as a player.
 

huMps

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
708
Location
On the fence
jesse -Thanks for the advice and encouragment ,and the kudos. I am figuring out that I need to think and have a purpose before I make every move. I am starting to get better with it. It only seems to last a couple stocks at a time though.
I'll start the match really well, making good decisions, and I'll keep it even for the first two stocks. But my mindest usually only lasts the first two stocks for some reason. Next thing I know I get two stocked and don't remember what I did the second half of the match lol.
I need to learn all the noob stuff too. I feel like thats my second biggest thing. I feel like I get hit doing things that I obviously shouldn't be doing but I don't realize it untill I get hit by it or gimped by it a bunch of times first. So don't be afraid to tell me things that you guys think are really obvious if i'm getting ****ed up by em.
Hopefully I can make it out again next weekend.
 

VibeSlyph

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
995
Location
Albany/Troy NY
They're from a hardcore RPG game called Disgaea [By hardcore, I mean it's grinding all day]. They're pretty fun for me because I'm terrible at life and can get away with playing terrible games like that.

I thought san knew what the entire thing is. I'm pretty sure no one else does. lol.
 

Sharky

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 31, 2007
Messages
4,786
Location
Syracuse, NY
LAST DAY TO REGISTER FOR POUND IS TOMORROW.

get moving!

edit: the only people from our region I see registered are myself, sheth, and yannick, unless Dr. G registered as tiger under the wrong region (he's listed as md/va). GET MOVING PEEPS!!!
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
19,658
Location
Rochester, NY
tiger is seagullmans girlfriend.

I tried to register and it wouldnt let me for some reason. ill try again today at somepoint.
 

NightroGlycerine

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
369
Location
Rochester, NY
Sorry I missed this training session. It looked like it was good for the community though, keep up the good work everyone.

Keep practicing, I'll be in when I can to play.
 

Kydo

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Messages
25
Whats goin on da Kid?

I just want to play in a tourney, i never have and i want to get into them more.
 

Kydo

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Messages
25
Well im outside of Buffalo in Hamburg NY, so im about a hour away from Rochester. No tourneys are in Rochester yet. :(
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
19,658
Location
Rochester, NY
the closest one we have right now is going to be in feb/mar, in syracuse. how old are you? If you want somebody that you can practice with seriously until that time I know guy in buffalo that you can hook up with.
 

Kydo

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Messages
25
I suppose i could take the bus up to syracuse. I am 16, almost 17. Who is the guy in Buffalo?
 

ViciousEnd

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Messages
297
I thought we were doing a tournament this weekend or the following one? What happened there.

Also, if you are into melee, there is a dude named Asylum there. You can PM me and I'll shoot you his number. If you are into brawl I'm not really familiar with the scene out there in Buffalo, I haven't heard much from them, and I don't recall seeing BluePeachy post in recent history.
 

Kydo

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Messages
25
Yeah not much brawl in B-lo. Are you guys going to have any online tournaments until an actual person tourney? Ive been playing brawl the day it came out, i played a tiny bit of melee but recently got back into brawl and i want to get better.
 

TommyGreenShirt

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
312
Updated the original post.


Brawl PR

-Leet-0 and TommyGreenshirt have been removed
-Vibe added in 8th below Moss
-SMM1 added in 9th below Vibe
-Goggles has moved above James G
-Sharky has moved to 10th
-Leet-0 and Tommy Greenshirt have been moved to honorable mentions

Current list
1. San
2. Pikapika
3. cura
4. drg
5. goggles
6. james G
7. moss
8. vibe
9. smm1
10. sharky
Haha It's about time. I haven't been to a tournament in like 3 months.
 

RTF

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 19, 2007
Messages
1,037
Location
No Longer Bumping With Content, Smörgåsbords
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gwbMv29Fhg <2hr SM64 RTA
Watching this made me think of commin themes. A few that always stand out to me:
I never liked the music in TTC or Rainbow Ride because of the basslines (and I died a lot when I was there).
Mario kart's rainbow road (hater's gonna hate - I only like the snes/64 ones)
Mario kart 64's yoshi valley reminds me of TTC.
The star after the last bowser battle: starfox 64 music OUT OF NOWHERE. I woulud rage, but I thoroughly enjoyed that game (especially the multiplayer... I think that's where I figured out frame traps).
 
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