Smash 3DS Update 1.0.4 Released!

[Thinkaman]

Sakurai's weekly article was about his patch metholodogy:

"average and mediocrity are almost the same"

Patch to adjust the balance of the game "Super Smash Bros. for 3DS / Wii U" will be distributed in around mid-November. Until now, when I completed a Smash Bros game, there was no further development after that. But that makes it impossible for the game to be played for years. This time We have a mechanism of patch delivery. So, We decided to do a balance adjustment before November 21 when the Wii U version will be sold in North America. But there is a problem about this. You can't play online between a hardware that is patched and one that is not patched.

On the Wii U version, there's no problem because it updates automatically if connected to the Internet and the gameplay between more than 2 devices is limited to online. On the Nintendo 3DS Version, however, there are some people who are not connected to the Online, and hardwares that are patched and ones that are not patched will likely be mixed. On the other hand, We can't afford to separate the balance of the 3ds version from that of the Wii U version...

We have a tutorial on how to update the game on the official Smash Bros website. It's definitely necessary, so I'd like you to download it. If any of your friends are in trouble with doing it, please help them. I'll explain how we adjust the gameplay balance. Firstly, a monitor team assembles information and do practices multidirectionally. Specifically, researching the results, KOs, and trendy tactics in online matches. Next, I get the team to make a proposal about the balance adjustment. I also ask them to consider that killing fighters' advantages and getting rid of their disadvantages too much spoils the fun.

In response to the proposal, I adjust the balance. If that proposal is too difficult to be dealt with a patch, or spoils the fun, I pass it up and use another proposal. After a test play of the monitor team, the patch contents will be confirmed. We can actually see the results of the online matches. The winning percentage of respective fighters can be checked. It's comprehensive data of the global matches, which is deadly accurate.

Of course we can't publish this data, but I can tell you one thing. In Super Smash Bros. Brawl, the winning percentage of all fighters lines up in a stepwise manner. but this time, there's someone with the lowest percentage of all fighters by an overwhelming margin. It's "Little Mac". His advantages and disadvantages are both extremes. Although he has a high-performance dodge and a megaton punch that dominates everyone, his jump ability is quite low. A simple back throw + an aerial pursuit can be fatal for him.

But those who have a lot of experience in online matches will probably feel strange about this. I think most of you consider him rather powerful. His low winning percentage is most likely due to the fact that those who think "Little Mac is too powerful!" play as him and get beaten up. A lot of people use him because there's an impression out there that he's dominating all the time, but that doesn't mean you can win easily when you play as him. This phenomenon might be ideal. I have often featured in my column that I regard dynamic range as important. But I also suggest that it's not right to look at things only based on the results in online matches. I believe that taking the average of fighters performance is a bad move in the game.

Source: Famitsu scan via http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/632937-super-smash-bros-for-nintendo-3ds/70561893

Very reassuring!

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Your above comment above was not even close to the skill and other things needed to be good at Mobas. That post of yours was totally wrong. That's why people questioned you on it.

I still stand to that comment. Someone should say why I'm wrong instead of just saying that I'm wrong.
That would be a lot more productive.

 

[Nat Goméz]

Sakurai's weekly article was about his patch metholodogy:



Source: Famitsu scan via http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/632937-super-smash-bros-for-nintendo-3ds/70561893

Very reassuring!

Well, at least that means we won't get changed in any way and Sakurai wants to keep Little Mac how he is.

"His low winning percentage is most likely due to the fact that those who think "Little Mac is too powerful!" play as him and
get beaten up."

*Sakurai trying to make understand the abundance of scruby Macs online*

"I think most of you consider him rather powerful. [...] A lot of people use him because there's an impression out there that he's dominating all the time, but that doesn't mean you can win easily when you play as him."

*Sakurai saying that Good Macs dominate, but that doesn't mean is easy to play the charater*

I'm happy at least his trying to clarify.

Maybe for all the loose rate the scrubs gave us... maybe we'll get our KO punch buffed

 

[Terotrous]

List of **** I've (we've, Nova Scotia players) confirmed is not in the Wii U version (which presumably is already on 1.04):

Wario blast-off is out.
Item canceling is out.
Peach's aerials now stale.
Turnip Canceling is out.
Greninja side-B aerial lag cancel is out.
Robin Thunder Triple jump is out.

Rush canceling is still IN.

Pretty much all of the changes we've found save for the Luma thing have been glitch fixes, not actual buffs/nerfs.

Test Lucario's UpB Landing Lag cancel (it's identical to Greninja's trick) and Yoshi's Egg teleport glitch.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Maybe for all the loose rate the scrubs gave us... maybe we'll get our KO punch buffed

KO punch loading time lowered to 5 seconds.
"That should fix him" --Samurai

But seriously, I think Sakurai got it. I bet he won't make any big changes regarding Mac.

 

[SilverScarfFox]

Give MegaMan a Shin Shoryuken

 

[the8thark]

I still stand to that comment. Someone should say why I'm wrong instead of just saying that I'm wrong.
That would be a lot more productive.

You can stand by that all you want. But I'll bite and reply to your comment.

Don't you mean Valve?
And that would be awful.
It works in mobas for example because they need a much lower skill level regarding reaction times and input.
They are all about teamwork, knowledge and recourse management.

Reaction times are vitally important in Mobas. Getting off that stun before they stun you and kill you is of the utmost importance. Also buffing/nerfing characters can really change the game as it would in a fighting game like Smash Bros.
I assume recourse is a typo for resource. Let me know if I am wrong. And apart from mana there is no real resource management in Mobas. More often than not it's about cooldown management so you have the abilities ready to use just when you need them. Team work is very important as is the make up of the team and counter picking heroes to play as. But it's a lot more indepth and a lot more skill based than you think.

The best Moba players have a high level of skill. And a very high reaction time is needed to guess what they might to or where they might be going and prevent it from happening as much as possible. If you arrive late, you will not prevent then killing that creep camp or taking that objective.

The main difference to something like Smash Bros is in a Moba you have to be aware of everything that is happening off screen as well (ie what your team is doing), so you know when to help them out. in Smash Bros there is no off screen action.

There is that enough of an explanation?

 

[Kos-MosPlushie]

Please change how Dark Pit plays.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

You can stand by that all you want. But I'll bite and reply to your comment.

Reaction times are vitally important in Mobas. Getting off that stun before they stun you and kill you is of the utmost importance. Also buffing/nerfing characters can really change the game as it would in a fighting game like Smash Bros.
I assume recourse is a typo for resource. Let me know if I am wrong. And apart from mana there is no real resource management in Mobas. More often than not it's about cooldown management so you have the abilities ready to use just when you need them. Team work is very important as is the make up of the team and counter picking heroes to play as. But it's a lot more indepth and a lot more skill based than you think.

The best Moba players have a high level of skill. And a very high reaction time is needed to guess what they might to or where they might be going and prevent it from happening as much as possible. If you arrive late, you will not prevent then killing that creep camp or taking that objective.

The main difference to something like Smash Bros is in a Moba you have to be aware of everything that is happening off screen as well (ie what your team is doing), so you know when to help them out. in Smash Bros there is no off screen action.

There is that enough of an explanation?

Yep it's a typo.

There are more resources like money(how much to what player, who can afford dying, who needs to farm into lategame), time (early- mid- lategame and the corresponding changing dynamics) and towers(trades, kills for map control).

Maybe we have different views here, but knowledge is not skill. It is still as important though.
Knowing all characters in and out is knowledge, as is picking and counter picking efficiently.
Also guessing where someone is is also more about experience and map/character knowledge.

In my first comment I said "they need a much lower skill level regarding reaction times and input."
Maybe I just lack the right word for that. English isn't my mother language after all.
It's still true though. Compare physical inputs in MOBAs with beat em ups or even Starcraft.
It's quite slow in comparison.

In my opinion it's easier in MOBA games to judge what changes would result in. Not only because MOBAs have other focuses than Smash, but also because they are nearly always 5 players per team. Significantly changing one character has therefore a lot less impact on the overall performance.

 

[the8thark]

Yep it's a typo.

Thanks for the post. Well said.
And money only matters in DOTA2 and LOL. Heroes of the Storm does not have an in match gold/currency system.

Significantly changing one character has therefore a lot less impact on the overall performance.

Actually no. Change one character and it can screw over your whole team. Healing or burst damage or whatever is vital to some teams. Fiddle with that one one character and it affects the whole team greatly. And new strategies need to be formed.

 

[tm730]

Yeah. It's also the Lucario players fault for taking all that damage.

not the part i bolded

 

[Los4Muros]

Most of us are scared of what this patch can bring to us, we fear that maybe our main characters shall get nerfed. Other players that use Samus and Pikachu have a deep wish for the update to have a few fixes, considering they can't do any more damage to their characters. But I think we should remember that the patch has the purpose to balance the game. Top Tiers will be brought down and taken away those unfair details they hold. Like Lucario's massive strength and resistance to Smash attacks. Little Mac's main attacks, because no matter how bad his air mobility is, he's simply too strong. And at the same time Zelda means to have better mobility, Samus needs to have less lag and Pikachu killing moves.

Considering that the game isn't as balanced as I expected, I'm glad this patch is coming out. Yeah, I'm afraid for the nerfing of my mains, but at the same time, I'm hoping to get to see an EVO where the top finalists aren't either Fox or the Ice Climbers. An Apex where a Ganondorf can take on a Marth. The game needs a balance, i personally, although fear, am very excited for the patch.

 

[Boomuki]

As an Olimar main with pretty good For Glory results I can tell that he really isn't nearly as good as he was in Brawl. There are 2 things that would help him: The first is the number of Pikmin, 5 would be really good but he will stay at 3 because of 3ds limitations and his recovery being based around this. The other thing is the horrible horrible Pikmin AI. It really messes Olimar up at random times so that he sometimes misses easy kill opportunities for example. I'm positive that SmashWiiu will get this fixed, but I'm not really sure about the 3ds patch because of the limitations.

 

[K-45]

Yo if they get rid of rush cancel they need to buff mega man.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Little Mac's main attacks, because no matter how bad his air mobility is, he's simply too strong.

You do know Little Mac is losing the most, right?

 

[KeithTheGeek]

You do know Little Mac is losing the most, right?

Which is likely because noob players are picking him out of rage under the assumption he's OP or an auto-win button.

I don't honestly think Mac is all that amazing, but he is an incredibly polarizing character and it probably wouldn't harm him if some of his attributes were tweaked a bit, whether it was the amount of armor on his Smashes, his recovery, or something else.

 

[Los4Muros]

You do know Little Mac is losing the most, right?

Little Mac is a tricky character. It takes knowledge to learn how to use him. You gotta time everything right and make sure you know all about timing, shields, everything. But once you learn how to use him, he becomes very hard to defeat. Like the Ice Climbers in Smash. Not everybody knew how to use them right, the those who did would give you hell.

 

[Baskerville]

I'm just hoping Falco gets some good changes in this version. If they give his D-Air less startup and landing lag, increased the firing speed on his lasers and gave him some more kill moves I'll be content.

 

[Cherubas]

I find Little Mac extremely easy to beat. I get that he's very strong and quick, and the KO punch is definitely something you have to respect if you want to win, but with his limited air options Little Mac is not hard. I'll face any Little Mac player who wants to change my mind.

I like Little Mac because he IS polarizing. He's awesome at ground fights and cruddy at air fights and in my opinion it balances out. People just need to learn how to fight him. It's like watching you guys repeatedly attack a countering Marth and say "he keeps hitting me, Marth needs a nerf!" Adapt, people. That's how this game is played.

 

[Watulio]

Can we expect a nerf on Rosalina, Zero suit samus and Sheik? I'm not botherered by sheik, but the other 2 are tedius to fight against. ZSS is all about paralizing and either she succeeds or forces you into getting exposed to a grab or aerial hit and Rosalina destroys brawlers by letting her luma shield every punch.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Can we expect a nerf on Rosalina, Zero suit samus and Sheik? I'm not botherered by sheik, but the other 2 are tedius to fight against. ZSS is all about paralizing and either she succeeds or forces you into getting exposed to a grab or aerial hit and Rosalina destroys brawlers by letting her luma shield every punch.

It's been mentioned that the Luma will now take longer to respawn than before; at least 12.55 seconds. As a result, Rosalina would have to stall for a longer time period.

 

[Watulio]

It's been mentioned that the Luma will now take longer to respawn than before; at least 12.55 seconds. As a result, Rosalina would have to stall for a longer time period.

Where did you get that information?
Edit: NVM, saw what was up in this vid -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjVF05k0El0#t=25


Anyways, Rosalina has no problem stalling, her grab is amazing, sends people flying far and she can just run away again. Something I'd love to see would be for her not to be able to be ungrabable or even having her luma hit while she's getting hit. When that happens, grabbing her would be a high risk and reward situation, where she can grab you if you fail and send you away with her amazing throws.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Anyways, Rosalina has no problem stalling, her grab is amazing, sends people flying far and she can just run away again. Something I'd love to see would be for her not to be able to be ungrabable or even having her luma hit while she's getting hit. When that happens, grabbing her would be a high risk and reward situation, where she can grab you if you fail and send you away with her amazing throws.

Actually, Rosalina can still be grabbed and thrown before the Luma has any chance to intervene. It does come down to the Luma's placement in that situation.

 

[PokemonyeWest]

Yo if they get rid of rush cancel they need to buff mega man.

I'm for Mega Man getting a buff because he is ass currently, but I maintain that Rush Cancelling is not something he needs at all to be a good character.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Based on some Wii U demo sightings, it appears that more than just the Luma's respawn time has been affected. Apparently, the Luma is no longer able to rescue Rosalina if she's grabbed. It's hard to say if this also applies to if Rosalina is dizzy or asleep though.

 

[K-45]

I'm for Mega Man getting a buff because he is *** currently, but I maintain that Rush Cancelling is not something he needs at all to be a good character.

Rush cancelling helps megaman more then u would think. Right now he's has the lowest dps in the whole game and he has very unreliable kill moves other then his Bair. Rush cancellin makes up his lack of dps cuz characters can't do much damage to him. If they fixed rush almost the whole cast would legit be better then megaman.

 

[PokemonyeWest]

Based on some Wii U demo sightings, it appears that more than just the Luma's respawn time has been affected. Apparently, the Luma is no longer able to rescue Rosalina if she's grabbed. It's hard to say if this also applies to if Rosalina is dizzy or asleep though.

my prayers have been answered

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

Taken from the Greninja social thread

I played the Wii U version today for three hours at a Gamestop. Usmash now has more ending lag, enough to be punished by any character's running grab it would seem if the lower hit is shielded. Additionally, Hydro Pump seems to have lost both range and a little push back power (the latter needs to be better confirms cause FFAs are hard).

Also, it's been confirmed that Greninja won't be able to do a shadowsneak after a whiffed dair.

 

[Watulio]

Based on some Wii U demo sightings, it appears that more than just the Luma's respawn time has been affected. Apparently, the Luma is no longer able to rescue Rosalina if she's grabbed. It's hard to say if this also applies to if Rosalina is dizzy or asleep though.

Thank god

 

[Kinslayer]

I have a feeling Wario is probably to lose his momentum glitch, but if they make it so you can grab the bike parts like the tip says you can, it's a worthwhile trade-off.

Why should you get anything for losing a glitch? You don't deserve a replacement for them fixing something that shouldn't occur in the first place.

Little Mac is a tricky character. It takes knowledge to learn how to use him. You gotta time everything right and make sure you know all about timing, shields, everything. But once you learn how to use him, he becomes very hard to defeat. Like the Ice Climbers in Smash. Not everybody knew how to use them right, the those who did would give you hell.

I main little Mac and I must say you are right he takes some skill, but at the same time you don't really have to time anything. His smashes have a lot of armor on them so a lot of times we win footsie wars without trying because we don't clash with people we normally just armor through them. All out smashes recover quickly making properly spaced moves hard to punish unless power shielded.

Our only real weakness isn't the fact that we suck in the air it' that we can't sweetspot a ledge. Meaning we get punished even on the times where we can make it back.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Thank god

To be fair, the Luma could only do its f-air if Rosalina is grabbed, so that wasn't going to save Rosalina from being thrown.

 

[Kinslayer]

To be fair, the Luma could only do its f-air if Rosalina is grabbed, so that wasn't going to save Rosalina from being thrown.

He could hit you before you threw her... Doesn't matter what the normal was.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

He could hit you before you threw her... Doesn't matter what the normal was.

ONLY if the Luma is near Rosalina. Otherwise, she's screwed.

 

[Kinslayer]

ONLY if the Luma is near Rosalina. Otherwise, she's screwed.

Uhhhhhhh and your point issss? Watch dabuzz he doesn't leave her to much.

 

[Rew]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but Bowsercide has been confirmed nerfed:

If Bowser is down to his last stock and KOs an opponent by using his Side Special to slam them off the stage into a pit, it will count as a loss for Bowser instead of a win (however, if Bowser has more than one stock, it will still count as his KO as it does now).

In addition to regular Smash play, this will have huge ramifications for strategies on Classic mode, as this is a popular technique to employ on high intensities like 9.0 against highly powered CPU players. After 1.04, you can only Bowsercide on your first stock or it's GAME OVER!

 

[The Seventh One]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but Bowsercide has been confirmed nerfed:

If Bowser is down to his last stock and KOs an opponent by using his Side Special to slam them off the stage into a pit, it will count as a loss for Bowser instead of a win (however, if Bowser has more than one stock, it will still count as his KO as it does now).

In addition to regular Smash play, this will have huge ramifications for strategies on Classic mode, as this is a popular technique to employ on high intensities like 9.0 against highly powered CPU players. After 1.04, you can only Bowsercide on your first stock or it's GAME OVER!

I am going to assume this petty nerf was done to reinforce some semblance of challenge in the inconsequential single player modes.

 

[Rew]

I am going to assume this petty nerf was done to reinforce some semblance of challenge in the inconsequential single player modes.

I don't know, I still find Classic on 9.0 to be pretty damn tough.

 

[Pazzo.]

Is there a definitive list for the Wii U changes?

 

[The Seventh One]

Is there a definitive list for the Wii U changes?

Nintendo isn't going to tell us so we will have to wait until the WiiU/new patch release with about a week plus of testing to prove/debunk reports.

 

[LancerStaff]

Is there a definitive list for the Wii U changes?

Not yet. Patch notes will probably come around when the patch does.