Smash 3DS Update 1.0.4 Released!

[PSIBoy]

"While it is true that criticism is necessary to develop the game, you have to remember that without the game developers, the game wouldn't exist."

I have to shoot this down really quickly. Without the customers, the company nor the developers would be able to fund making the game. It all comes full circle.

There is nothing wrong with trying something new, but what if new isn't exactly better? Are you saying that the developer knows best? This is just more of the attitude that game developers should be treated nicely. It's limiting and silly. It would be a different story if the devs actually really interacted with the community besides posting little pics of the games. They don't even have a forum for smash nor do they actually post patch notes. God damn, how is not posting patch notes acceptable to you guys. I don't get that.

I'm not saying the developers always know best. I'm saying the consumers are not always right and the developers should get a second chance. I will concede to the fact that I only really play Nintendo games mainly, but in my experience Nintendo tends to treat consumers fairly in my opinion.

I never said that not posting patch notes was right either. It would be really convinent for patch notes, but developers aren't always perfect. Besides, how do they know what's new isn't always good?

I will also concede the point that consumers do keep developers afloat, but you have to look at both perspectives and make a judgement before you unleash a firestorm upon the developers or consumers.

 

[Johnny Heart Gold]

Before somebody comes and say "Google it man" "Lazy *******" nya nya nya " I want to be clear, I was busy and just download the patch, please somebody tell me all the changes. I wanna know all the stuff they did, I already now the Luma 10 segs death

 

[drakeirving]

Guys just an FYI, our community patch notes sticky thread is on the competitive boards found here: http://smashboards.com/threads/community-patch-notes-v1-0-4.378404/

There are a TON of changes in this patch and we are only including CONFIRMED changes (usually by multiple people) to the OP.

literally linked on the previous page and is a sticky on the competitive board

 

[Johnny Heart Gold]

literally linked on the previous page and is a sticky on the competitive board

Thanks girl you're a heroine!!!

 

[QuickRat]

No, because Sakurai and Nintendo actually DID work on this. I was referring to the fact that fans felt it necessary to create a mod/hack/whatever you want to call it just because they hated Brawl mechanics.

And... why is that a bad thing?

 

[DeiSakuChris]

So, since vectoring has been removed, I searched up information about Smash 4's DI and I didn't find any confident evidences.

How do you feel DI in this game ? Is DI work like in previous games or is it different ?

 

[PSIBoy]

And... why is that a bad thing?

Because just creating a mod/hack without the developers involved just seems like spitting them in the face for their work. Video game development is not easy, heck I only took an hour shakedown course in school on video game development and by the time I left my head was spinning. Balance patches, DLC (as long as it is a reasonable price for the content), and expansion kits I'm okay with because the company worked on them and are officially licensed. Mods and hacks I'm just not thrilled with. If the developers were completely neglecting everything consistently for many games and not bothering to fix the issues, then I guess I wouldn't mind because they weren't putting their all behind it. They just created a mod/hack because they thought one game was crappy because of all the changes!

If you want to create a conversation so we can debate this further, go right ahead. I don't feel like clogging up the thread with off-topic debate any further than we (and Cyrene) already did. That also goes for Cyrene as well. You can create a conversation if you wish to debate further. I can tell this will probably not end anytime soon... So don't expect me to respond any more except in conversation.

So, since vectoring has been removed, I searched up information about Smash 4's DI and I didn't find any confident evidences.

How do you feel DI in this game ? Is DI work like in previous games or is it different ?

At least the removal of vectoring may ease the KO'ing problem a bit. I would imagine that DI would work similarly to previous games, though I haven't got the chance to try it out.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I did notice something that should be kept in mind. If you access your game data while having the 1.0.4 update installed, you pretty much have to have the update installed from here on out. If you delete the update and try to access your game data, the game will not let you, and you'll have to play a new game that never saves.

You'll be able to access your game data again if you reinstall the update though.

 

[PSIBoy]

I did notice something that should be kept in mind. If you access your game data while having the 1.0.4 update installed, you pretty much have to have the update installed from here on out. If you delete the update and try to access your game data, the game will not let you, and you'll have to play a new game that never saves.

You'll be able to access your game data again if you reinstall the update though.

Thanks for informing us. But I'm confused about one thing: if you reinstall the update, do you regain the ability to save?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Thanks for informing us. But I'm confused about one thing: if you reinstall the update, do you regain the ability to save?

Pretty much. You'll know that your game data is being saved if you keep track of your records; most noticeably, the power count.

 

[PSIBoy]

Pretty much. You'll know that your game data is being saved if you keep track of your records; most noticeably, the power count.

Ah, okay. I wasn't intending on going back to 1.0.3, but it's nice to know.

 

[QuickRat]

Because just creating a mod/hack without the developers involved just seems like spitting them in the face for their work.

So... DOTA, Counter-Strike and Portal: Prelude spat Blizzard and Valve in the face for their work... I think it's the oposite.

Video game development is not easy, heck I only took an hour shakedown course in school on video game development and by the time I left my head was spinning. Balance patches, DLC (as long as it is a reasonable price for the content), and expansion kits I'm okay with because the company worked on them and are officially licensed. Mods and hacks I'm just not thrilled with. If the developers were completely neglecting everything consistently for many games and not bothering to fix the issues, then I guess I wouldn't mind because they weren't putting their all behind it. They just created a mod/hack because they thought one game was crappy because of all the changes!

And... if they thought Brawl was "crappy" or unsatisfactory, they were actually wrong? Because, as we have seen with Smash 4, even the creators knew they comitted lots of mistakes with Brawl.

So... for example. I've played games I loved but I can see some mistakes in it. I can tell you about Pokémon and poor fluency and rhythm in combats or about Super Mario Galaxy and its lack of challenge. Why should the creator be upset if someone makes a mod to increase manners in Pokémon combats and difficulty in Mario Galaxy?

Many creators, such as id Soft, Valve, Epic Games, Bethesda, Blizzard and 3D Realms, never got upset with modders. They said: "hey, these guys are making our games even better and more famous, so let's support them". In some cases, they even hire modders. Steam and GOG, for example, have lists and official recommendations of good mods for many of their games.

So, in other words, making a mod is not "spitting in someone's work". There is not a relation between the two facts. If you make a game and it is not that well recieved by your fanbase as you expected and you get angry with that, maybe you are the problem, not them. Maybe you're the one that does not see your own errors and correct them proprerly.

And, by the way, if I were Sakurai I would love to have a beer with PMDT rather than hate them.

 

[PSIBoy]

So... DOTA, Counter-Strike and Portal: Prelude spat Blizzard and Valve in the face for their work... I think it's the oposite.



And... if they thought Brawl was "crappy" or unsatisfactory, they were actually wrong? Because, as we have seen with Smash 4, even the creators knew they comitted lots of mistakes with Brawl.

So... for example. I've played games I loved but I can see some mistakes in it. I can tell you about Pokémon and poor fluency and rhythm in combats or about Super Mario Galaxy and its lack of challenge. Why should the creator be upset if someone makes a mod to increase manners in Pokémon combats and difficulty in Mario Galaxy?

Many creators, such as id Soft, Valve, Epic Games, Bethesda, Blizzard and 3D Realms, never got upset with modders. They said: "hey, these guys are making our games even better and more famous, so let's support them". In some cases, they even hire modders. Steam and GOG, for example, have lists and official recommendations of good mods for many of their games.

So, in other words, making a mod is not "spitting in someone's work". There is not a relation between the two facts. If you make a game and it is not that well recieved by your fanbase as you expected and you get angry with that, maybe you are the problem, not them. Maybe you're the one that does not see your own errors and correct them proprerly.

And, by the way, if I were Sakurai I would love to have a beer with PMDT rather than hate them.

Good argument. But, to be honest I don't play many games outside Nintendo, so I admit, I am rather ignorant when it comes to most non-Nintendo gaming.

I should clarify: I can tolerate mods when a) allowed by gaming companies or b) just don't learn from complaints stemming from a majority of the fanbase. I also heard that Nintendo banned any Project M talk from happening on Miiverse. If that's not anti-PM, I don't know what is. Sakurai said that Smash was steering into a more casual direction, not competitive. If you don't like it, try to make the best of it or stick with Melee or something. Brawl received 9/10 by several reviewers, don't tell me a lot of people didn't like it. Just a vocal competitive fanbase hated it while the majority of the fanbase (casual gamers) loved it. I will admit Nintendo has not been making the smartest decisions lately (Paper Mario Sticker Star...), but at least they're not screwing people over with the exact same game reskinned with new characters and stages or giving out half-completed games. Most of their games are well-received to my knowledge.

If you want to create a conversation so we can debate this further, go right ahead. I don't feel like clogging up the thread with off-topic debate any further than we (and Cyrene) already did. That also goes for Cyrene as well. You can create a conversation if you wish to debate further. I can tell this will probably not end anytime soon... So don't expect me to respond any more except in conversation.

I know I broke my word, but I feel it extremely unlikely that this'll transition into a conversation at this point.

 

[QuickRat]

So... if Nintendo doesn't want you to play a game, you don't play it. Am I right? Sounds extrange for me...

 

[PSIBoy]

So... if Nintendo doesn't want you to play a game, you don't play it. Am I right? Sounds extrange for me...

No. I would elaborate more, but it seems at this point this is a clash of morals: I think it is immoral to create a mod against a company's will and you think it's moral no matter the situation if some people want to. This is not only getting us nowhere, but we're also completely off topic. I suggest we stop before this thread is locked because of the two of us bickering about morality of a mod in a thread of an official game discussing about an update to said game.

 

[Naoshi]

this page has a lot of people with red hats

:0

I did notice something that should be kept in mind. If you access your game data while having the 1.0.4 update installed, you pretty much have to have the update installed from here on out. If you delete the update and try to access your game data, the game will not let you, and you'll have to play a new game that never saves.

You'll be able to access your game data again if you reinstall the update though.

Not to mention rolling back to that saveless game means you can't view any replays. Which means there is no way to ever play your replays after updating.

:[

 

[QuickRat]

No. I would elaborate more, but it seems at this point this is a clash of morals: I think it is immoral to create a mod against a company's will and you think it's moral no matter the situation if some people want to. This is not only getting us nowhere, but we're also completely off topic. I suggest we stop before this thread is locked because of the two of us bickering about morality of a mod in a thread of an official game discussing about an update to said game.

So you think it's immoral if I buy a cheap arcade stick (€25) and I buy some good joystick and buttons from a Japanese seller in order to build and construct my own arcade stick, with my demands in it and a nice drawing in the front. I did it, why should it be immoral? It sounds pretty unreasoning for me. But OK, let's stop the topic.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

So you think it's immoral if I buy a cheap arcade stick (€25) and I buy some good joystick and buttons from a Japanese seller in order to build and construct my own arcade stick, with my demands in it and a nice drawing in the front. I did it, why should it be immoral? It sounds pretty unreasoning for me. But OK, let's stop the topic.

Yeah but only you can use it. It's your product. One could argue that modding brawl is ok as long as you are the modder and the only person using it.

 

[PSIBoy]

Yeah but only you can use it. It's your product. One could argue that modding brawl is ok as long as you are the modder and the only person using it.

As much as I appreciate possible support, we have to drop this. This has gone on for too long in a thread that isn't meant for this topic. Short debates is OK, but getting too far off track for too long will result in the thread being locked.

You are completely overlooking copyright rights. If you patent the controller I have no problem. However, a controller for your own personal use or a mod that's just ripping off the developer's product just because you can't accept change I do not think is okay unless they encourage it or their effort is just lame.

 

[Quillion]

I hope in a future patch they limit airdodging and rolling.

Sure you can punish them. Sure, you can't air dodge out of a proper combo. But it's an annoyance to us all since it's too good.

Repeat: it's not that's it's unpunishable, it's an annoyance that makes the game unfun.

I think the way the roll is, it's perfectly fine if they keep it as fast and safe as it is now. They just need to limit its number of uses, as well as airdodging. They should do it by making the roll drain from your shield, so that you need to watch how much you roll or else your shield breaks. A perfect compromise between keeping a good defensive option and nerfing it, wouldn't you say?

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

I hope in a future patch they limit airdodging and rolling.

Sure you can punish them. Sure, you can't air dodge out of a proper combo. But it's an annoyance to us all since it's too good.

Repeat: it's not that's it's unpunishable, it's an annoyance that makes the game unfun.

I think the way the roll is, it's perfectly fine if they keep it as fast and safe as it is now. They just need to limit its number of uses, as well as airdodging. They should do it by making the roll drain from your shield, so that you need to watch how much you roll or else your shield breaks. A perfect compromise between keeping a good defensive option and nerfing it, wouldn't you say?

That's... actually pretty genius. Although a very harsh way to tell people that rolling is bad.

 

[Quillion]

That's... actually pretty genius. Although a very harsh way to tell people that rolling is bad.

Eh, it's just that people assume that when we say that rolling is annoying, they think it means "we dont know how to punish lol". I had to make it emphatic to get it through their thick skulls.

 

[PSIBoy]

I hope in a future patch they limit airdodging and rolling.

Sure you can punish them. Sure, you can't air dodge out of a proper combo. But it's an annoyance to us all since it's too good.

Repeat: it's not that's it's unpunishable, it's an annoyance that makes the game unfun.

I think the way the roll is, it's perfectly fine if they keep it as fast and safe as it is now. They just need to limit its number of uses, as well as airdodging. They should do it by making the roll drain from your shield, so that you need to watch how much you roll or else your shield breaks. A perfect compromise between keeping a good defensive option and nerfing it, wouldn't you say?

Defiantly a 'big stick' approach, but a pretty genius one (though it probably won't happen).

 

[Quillion]

Defiantly a 'big stick' approach, but a pretty genius one (though it probably won't happen).

Don't think of it as a "balance patch", think of it more as an "annoyance patch".

 

[PokemonyeWest]

excessive rolling is annoying but putting a limit on it would be silly

 

[PSIBoy]

Don't think of it as a "balance patch", think of it more as an "annoyance patch".

Hmm... Well, they can either set a limit or they can slow it down. Sometimes the 'stick' is preferable over the 'carrot' though. This may be the case here. But who knows? Maybe the carrot would work over the stick in this case.

 

[Quillion]

Hmm... Well, they can either set a limit or they can slow it down. Sometimes the 'stick' is preferable over the 'carrot' though. This may be the case here. But who knows? Maybe the carrot would work over the stick in this case.

Slowing it down would make it completely useless (like in Melee and Brawl). Limiting would make it still useful while adding an element of strategy to its use (which is what competitive players so far already do).

 

[PSIBoy]

Slowing it down would make it completely useless (like in Melee and Brawl). Limiting would make it still useful while adding an element of strategy to its use (which is what competitive players so far already do).

Increase vulnerability frames? But wouldn't that be technically slowing it down? Or maybe applying a form of staleness to it?