Unreasonable Expectations

[Sariku]

WaveDashing is difficult, I will agree, but keep practicing... whatam I saying, I still can't do it.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Up until a few months ago, I had no idea what wavedashing was. I am a Super Smash Bros. fan through and through, and can kick some tail, but I have no desire to learn how to wavedash. It sounds cheap to me.

The scrub would take great issue with this statement for he usually believes that he is playing to win, but he is bound up by an intricate construct of fictitious rules that prevent him from ever

truly competing. These made up rules vary from game to game, of course, but their character remains constant. In Street Fighter, for example, the scrub labels a wide variety of tactics and situations “cheap.” So-called “cheapness” is truly the mantra of the scrub. Performing a throw on someone often called cheap. A throw is a special kind of move that grabs an opponent and damages him, even when the opponent is defending against all other kinds of attacks. The entire purpose of the throw is to be able to damage an opponent who sits and blocks and doesn’t attack.

Not flat out calling you a scrubbity scrub, but warning you that the term ''cheap'' when applied to fighting games means you've got a bad mindset for the game.

It also GREATLY hinders your improvement if you wish to be able to beat people who are higher than you in skill level... but if you consider wavedashing cheap then theres no way you could ever improve because

99.999999999% of the competitive smashers out there wavedash, and about 90% of them know how to do it properly. the other 9.9% are wavedash spammers, and basically anyone could kill them because they're JUST wavedashing.. no mindgames, not using it for spacing, no wavesmashes, no waveshines. Just wavedashing for the SAKE of wavedashing, and thats completly and utterly stupid unless you're only just learning how to do it.

So if you thought WDing to be a cheap move, and everyone used it then you might get discouraged and not improve as much

Just trying to give you what I hope is a friendly heads up Take it as you will.

 

[Lemon Drop]

Not flat out calling you a scrubbity scrub, but warning you that the term ''cheap'' when applied to fighting games means you've got a bad mindset for the game.

It also GREATLY hinders your improvement if you wish to be able to beat people who are higher than you in skill level... but if you consider wavedashing cheap then theres no way you could ever improve because

99.999999999% of the competitive smashers out there wavedash, and about 90% of them know how to do it properly. the other 9.9% are wavedash spammers, and basically anyone could kill them because they're JUST wavedashing.. no mindgames, not using it for spacing, no wavesmashes, no waveshines. Just wavedashing for the SAKE of wavedashing, and thats completly and utterly stupid unless you're only just learning how to do it.

So if you thought WDing to be a cheap move, and everyone used it then you might get discouraged and not improve as much

Just trying to give you what I hope is a friendly heads up Take it as you will.

I wish I knew how to wave dash well, though Smash Bros. Melee isn't my most played game now-a-days.

 

[Caael]

Wtf? The fact that they put items in? Are you insane? Items are what make the non-competetive players play the game. Plus if you dont like them, all you have to do is turn them off!! 'Uber' people like you really irritate me.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Wtf? The fact that they put items in? Are you insane? Items are what make the non-competetive players play the game. Plus if you dont like them, all you have to do is turn them off!! 'Uber' people like you really irritate me.

^^ Agreed. He doesnt annoy me though because.. well. Its me, TNGA and Ive made my share of posts like that.

I do think there should be items and all that and blah blah blah for the sake of OTHER people who want them, so long as I can turn them off.

In my idealised view of brawl there is no 1p mode, or items. All the stages are balanced and there are 50 characters with incredibly cool movesets, each character pretty powerful so theres no more melee mewtwos. There would still be a tier list, but id like to see some mid tier characters who are about as powerful as marth/peach are in melee.

And no, you wouldnt have to unlock anything. Also I wouldnt mind if they just used melee's system.. id say Id like more techniques to be in melee.. but I don't. I love the game the way it is so if brawl was like an ''expansion pack'' then I'd be in heaven

WaveDashing is difficult, I will agree, but keep practicing... whatam I saying, I still can't do it.

You serious? I learned how to do it about 2 years ago.. to get the technique down I had to practice for about 30 minutes on final destination with mario.

Look at it like rhythm. X or Y, diagonal right or left, L. Repeat. Simple Just takes like 30 mins or so.

Its USING the wavedash that takes time, which luckily I have had so now im a pretty strong player.


Sariku :

Can you short hop, l cancel, or shffl? Id suggest learning those before wavedashing if you cant do them already. They are far far more important.

 

[Lemon Drop]

You serious? I learned how to do it about 2 years ago.. to get the technique down I had to practice for about 30 minutes on final destination with mario.

Look at it like rhythm. X or Y, diagonal right or left, L. Repeat. Simple Just takes like 30 mins or so.

Its USING the wavedash that takes time, which luckily I have had so now im a pretty strong player.


Sariku :

Can you short hop, l cancel, or shffl? Id suggest learning those before wavedashing if you cant do them already. They are far far more important.

>.> I can wave dash and all, and l cancel, and shffl, though short hop is pretty hard to get down IMO

 

[Inevitable]

I say that they should make the damage percentage increase to 9999%.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

>.> I can wave dash and all, and l cancel, and shffl, though short hop is pretty hard to get down IMO

SHing was the first thing I learned. Ill agree thats its difficult at first, but once you have the muscle memory in your thumb for it you have it for life.

Easy shorthop trick : Slide thumb off the corner of the button. I used to do that but now Ive got a better technique.

I say that they should make the damage percentage increase to 9999%.

That's just plain ********. No one ever lasts over 300% the highest % I saw in a match was like... 360% or so and the guy had INSANE DI.

 

[Lemon Drop]

I say that they should make the damage percentage increase to 9999%.

ONly way you can get that high is to have 2 fox players shoot at you over and over and over.. but one touch your gone.

 

[Inevitable]

Well its those small additions that seem stupid but when they're in you just go like "I guess its cool in a way.." I like those weird small unexpected additions to games.

I think if someone had perfect DI which is literally impossible unless they're just good? They could probably survive anything, So the over 999% could be seen in one video at least.

 

[Fawriel]

...haha. I can do nothing, but I short-hop almost perfectly. I can short-hop with frikkin Fox in Lightning Melee.
Funny how that goes.
I guess the rest is harder to learn, though.. *yawns, stretches and shrugs*

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

^^ Don't give up. Fox is the hardest to SH with, so hes who I learned with. it makes no difference lightning of regular melee I dont think for SH and fullhop.

I think if someone had perfect DI which is literally impossible unless they're just good? They could probably survive anything, So the over 999% could be seen in one video at least.

Nah, Captain Jack has some of the best DI of any smasher, he managed to survive a tipper from marth at 100% on yoshis story with pure DI. But he just barely made it

If he was at 200%, he would have died.

Think of it this way, DI is like aiming yourself, you cant stop the velocity. You can aim yourself upwards from the recoil of a strong attack from your opponent (like peaches fthrow) and then you are higher so you can recover easily.

But the velocity doesn't stop, so if you get hit on final destination at anything over 300% by a strong tilt or a smash, theres literally nothing you can do unless you manage to DI into the ground and techroll, or you're recovering and you walltech.

Its POSSIBLE, persay but I dont think it would ever, ever happen. So the 9999% thing is just pointless IMO.

 

[Inevitable]

Wasn't there something called European DI or Double Tech Stick DI? Where you could survive from almost anything if I recall correctly.

 

[MarsBitrona]

My best hope is to wait for the modding community to catch up to Melee. Then we will all be able to tweak the hell out of that engine to create our own characters and scenarios.

I'm sure this modding community is a fine bunch of folk, but I am completely certain that nobody can make Smash Bros better than HAL. Yes, Brawl will play differently from Melee. This is a good thing. SSBM is an amazing game, but it's not perfect. The sequel is being designed to improve the gameplay. They're not just going to take out all the stuff that competitive players use, add some characters and call it a game. They're going to make meaningful upgrades to the engine for the sake of making the game better, not just changing stuff for the heck of it. Actual sequels are a rarity among fighting games, and they can release different tweaks and versions of the already six-year-old Melee forever, but by the time we see "Super Smash Bros Melee Turbo Revival EX Extreme +", it will have lost everything that made it special in the first place. Basically, what I'm getting from your post is that you want less out of your $50 purchase than they're giving us. I would suggest paying a person to go into your game and turn off half the options so you can pretend nothing is different. Of course, this may result in you not having any friends.

I will not even try to argue the statement about items, because every time I read it, my brain tries to escape from my head and leap out the nearest window.

 

[Binx]

Wasn't there something called European DI or Double Tech Stick DI? Where you could survive from almost anything if I recall correctly.

If you time double stick DI pretty much perfectly downwards for at attack that will send you HORRIZONTALLY only then you can time a tech and tech off the groud, however the momentum still carries you outward off the ledge if you move fast enough, so I dont see any way of getting back past like 300% After 350% fox's standing A can kill I believe. There is no way in a real match for a person to get much past 200%, and that usually only if they are playing against a character that has to kill at lower percents and they just cant get that one good hit to finish you.

EDIT: There is also quarter circle DI, which is what I beleive Ken uses to live into such high damage. As far as I understand it works like this there are 3 different DIs, ASDI, Smash DI, and DI. DI is holding a direction before the hit goes through and you will be sent more in the direction, Smash DI is when you are in the stun lag for an attack like marths tip has something like 4 frames where you are frozen in space before you are sent flying, this increases as your damage increases and with strength of the attack, the most smash DI frames available come from samus' fully charged B where you have 16 frames, on each frame you can imput one direction per control stick movement which moves you a little bit in that direction before you are spend flying, Quarter circle DI abuses this by making it possible to imput more smash DIs than return the control stick to the neatral possition. So lets say I was going to up smashed by fox I could do a quarter circle Haduken type motion and that would move me one frame down, one frame down and to the right, and one frame towards fox before the upsmash sent me up, where I would then normal DI away from fox and hopefully not die a horrible death (this takes alot of speed, precision and you have to predict that your opponent is going to use a certain type of attack).

 

[Sariku]

Well Duh Dylan, I can short hop... I can shuffle... I can fast fall... I can grab though... I can't wavedash though. I found a better way, Short Hopping is almost my full stratagy now. If you can short hop, you can do any arial attack basically on the ground -evil grin- Marth likes short hopping...

 

[pikachun00b7]

Sakurai made a near perfect game. Now he'll do it again with new Adv. techs/chars/stages AND online. How could anyone be so cynical about that?!

 

[h1roshi]

You need to step into my thread, friend.

''Who else is nervous about Brawl Potentially sucking?''

Its got the most replies of any thread in this section, so that tells you a lot of us share your feelings.

My main concern is the wavedash.. no wavedash means no me playing brawl competitivly. (ill still play it, but I wont bother with tourneys)

im sorry but thats ********. just cuz there is no wavedash doesnt mean the game isnt going to be competitive. and you saif in a later post its integral to your game. and it isnt integral to every otheradvanced joe shmoe? every one is going to be on level playing fields so i dont see how this will break your game. there will be other ways to mindgame your opponent, like by just being smarter then them and outwitting them...peace

-hiroshi

 

[Thunderslf]

I love the how topic creator is complaining about an optional feature in the game.

"OMFG ITEMS R IN!!!11 THIS GAEM SUX!!"

Items are a part of Smash Bros and is part of the heart and soul of the game, not to mention you can turn them off. And dispite what you think, there are tons more casual Smash players than competitive, so it's more appropreote to appeal to the larger market. So yeah, stop expecting Nintendo to cater this game to you and only you, it makes you look like a *******. And taking items out of Smash would be like taking soul charge out of soul caliber, or vehicles out of Halo.

 

[mista_mista]

The fact that there are items at all is a dissappointment to all competetive players.

You've got to be kidding me...
Why would they take out items? If you don't want them, turn them off. Simple as that. Even the experts probably do a fun match with items every now and then for a little change.

 

[MookieRah]

For starters, lets not try to flame so much. There is a lot of it going on, and most of it is caused by something totally off topic or from people arguing about something neither of them are truly educated on.

@Wavedash haters: Stop johning and learn to use it. Why the hell do you refuse to use something that has been PROVEN to give you more options and mobility? That's just dumb, end of discussion.

A few more things on DI:

Double-stick DI only works if you are on the ground, and it only works if the C-stick is angled down and you are holding left or right. If you hold both down it doesn't do anything but DI down normally; however, when you hold c-stick down it will di down as long as you are on the ground which gives you the ability to DI left or right. What happens is that it makes for your trajectory to go more horizontally, which is good at low percents cause you can get away from things. I mainly use it for throws, seeing as how a lot of throws gives me ample time to react to them.

The quarter circle DI was proven false, if anything the quarter circle DI may appear to work because of the very real smash DI, in which if you smash the stick in a direction upon impact (as opposed to already holding the direction) it has a lot more impact on your trajectory. A LOT of people use this against fox's upthrow upair, cause it's a predictable action and smash DI can prevent the 2nd part of the uair from connecting.

Also, there is no such thing as European or Japanese DI and all that stuff, lol, hearing that makes my head want to explode. It's not yalls fault though, cause that nonsense spread like wild fire from people who wanted to label good DI as something that could be attributed to a country or location. Hell, I use MISSISSIPPI DI!!! DIRTY SOUTH DI!!!! Sounds stupid doesn't it XD?

 

[soaz]

Question is: Why WOULD they do it?

couldnt say it better myself.

 

[Samochan]

Also, there is no such thing as European or Japanese DI and all that stuff, lol, hearing that makes my head want to explode.

But massive European DI is too good when you die from Marth's tipper on YS at 0%.

/off topic

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I know it's the cool thing to do, but this post is so ****ing ******** that I can't help but comment on it. Defrag the disc? What the **** are you talking about?

I ment to say"Debug" sir,an accidental slip up in my grammar is no reason to act so tyranic.

Were you beaten to *********** as a child?

No,I was not.I wonder if you should question your own ***********,seeing that your attempting to flame me for something insignificant.The quiddities of your nature only show me how much of a blatant *** you are.

I seriously cannot fathom the stupidity of this statement. Maybe you should learn the slightest bit about what you're talking about before you make one of your 2000+ posts that house nothing but ignorance.

Was it really so ignorant just to question unreasonable ideas such as game modification?Sure it may be possible,but who wants so waste their time and money so that they may implement more techniques in a game when you can play a completely new smash without all of the hastle?

I for one wavedash alot,but I wouldn't go to such huge extents just to implement a physics exploit.What ever happened to playing the game to the best of your ability insted of being so reliant?Reliance is a sign of weakness sir.

I would be sad for the wavedash to leave,but people like you who complain over something so insignificant really makes me lose faith in the gaming communities morals.

Next, you seem to think that the Brawl creators have no power over wavedash without vastly changing the physics system, I say that's bull****. You don't know anything about programming

In actuallity,you would have to change the physics system inorder to remove the wavedash because the land cancelation of the air dodge animation was specifically programed to do such.Since your so contain so much wisdom and intelligence based on game design,please,enlighten us on your plot in which they can remove the wavedash.

so you don't even have the ability to comment on it. u kno all they have to do is defrag the disc to remove teh wavedash keke =) Oh, and I'd like to mention that the modding community very likely wouldn't be directly editing the disc

Let me reiterate,I ment to say"Debug" for that was an error on my part.I can comment on whatever I feel,even if I don't have any knowledge based on what I said.And to judge me based on one post only makes you the ignorent one here.

There are things called emulators out there, where things are are far more easily changed. Granted, all gamecube emulators suck right now, but no one expected SSB:M modding to take off anytime soon anyways.

Yeah,I know what those are considering that I use them everyday:

Project 64
Visual Boy Advance
ZSNES
NEO Rage

I know that you can do such things with an emulator,but who wants to go through all of the trouble?

Yeah, he certainly fails. Moron.

You know that I spoke to him on my behalf and corrected my mistake.You're just being an idiot.

Oh, and Sariku.Uchiha, shut the hell up. No one cares about your obnoxious opinions ("shut up n00b") you worthless chibi pre-pubescent piece of ****.

Like anyone cares about some random obnoxious poster who blows his lid from a post whome is probably not even going to be here often.So,why should we care about what YOU say again?

 

[Sariku]

Like anyone cares about some random obnoxious poster who blows his lid from a post whome is probably not even going to be here often.So,why should we care about what YOU say again?

Oh... so thats what people think of me...

 

[Toasty!]

Short Hop & L cancel are easy, but I can't seem to shffl.

 

[Sariku]

Shffls pretty easy, just takes a while to get used to it...

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Oh... so thats what people think of me...

I was talking about that guy.

 

[MookieRah]

Stop the flaming guys or I'll start the warnings.

 

[the grim lizard]

I hate you all...

*is tired of these topics complaining about the game before it even comes out...*

There's nothing nothing wrong with items; they've been in all the games and can be fun from time-to-time. Stop complaining about the friggin' physics engine...the game isn't even out. Wavedashing was a nice little surprise gift in Melee, whether it's still in or not...whatever. The game will still be fun. We really can't tell anything from these trailers anyway, not until we actually have the game ourselves and are playing it. Just something to keep in mind, everyone: from 64 to Melee, they DID keep teching, L-cancelling, short hopping, etc.; so stop worrying so much...


Look, if they take away Captain Falcon's knee, then we can all complain...

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

@Wavedash haters: Stop johning and learn to use it. Why the hell do you refuse to use something that has been PROVEN to give you more options and mobility? That's just dumb, end of discussion.

my new hero.

 

[Sariku]

Can I be a hero... I made your sig! Lmao, jk.

 

[kuenzel]

You cant say they shouldnt put items in. OF COURSE they will. competetive people may prefer it off, but making a smash bros without even the option of items would make the game 100 thousand times worse*!
*Actual value. Do the math you skeptic.

 

[OmegaXXII]

yeah items are gonna definetly be in, i mean it wouldn't make sense to take them out in seeing that they've been in the last to games, even if hardcore competitors don't want them, they are still gonna be there

 

[180OP]

I don't ''Depend'' on it anymore than I depend on the A button. Its just an integral part of my game, and just plain habit. Without wavedashing I would be a garbage melee player as half of my mindgames would dissapear. This is true for a lot of people.

You don't depend on the wavedash, yet if it was gone you would become from good(elite) to garbage instantly as HALF of your mingames would disappear?

That's like saying I don't depend on having two legs to run, but if one of them was gone, I would become too slow to even compete.

And that is not true for a lot of people.
And http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=integral&x=0&y=0 [definition of integral.]

Umm I think that is a prime example of dependability. If you were half as good as a player/gamer you say you are, then you would figure out new tricks, mindgames and still not suck.

 

[Paranoid_Android]

The fact that there are items at all suggests Sakurai doesn't care about the competitive community? You realize items were in melee and SSB and have always been turn-off-able? You're an idiot.

 

[OmegaXXII]

The fact that there are items at all suggests Sakurai doesn't care about the competitive community? You realize items were in melee and SSB and have always been turn-off-able? You're an idiot.

I know that, i'm not a n00b, I was just addressing to someone who had stated that there shouldn'e be any items at all, I know they can be turned of and btw are u calling me an idiot because I sure ain't one

 

[CBNJ]

What is the big deal with Wavedashing? Big deal, just find another way to slide across a level for no reason.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

What is the big deal with Wavedashing? Big deal, just find another way to slide across a level for no reason.

No reason? Good job making your opinions on the technique completly invalid by your obvious ignorance.

Items SHOULD be in smash, as long as there's an off switch. I havent played with items in like 5 years but Im not THAT much of a nazi about em, I just prefer real smash.

 

[h2ownage]

Honestly, nobody cares. Whine about your 10 year old problems somewhere else please.