Unpopular Smash Ultimate Opinions! - Read the OP before Posting

[slrigeigdew]

Yeah I pretty much agree with everyone above. The problem isn't the weapons they use it's their moveset.

On a side note, this is why I feel the support behind Edelgard is a meme much like the support for the next pokemon grass starter. The common argument I've seen for her besides "We just GOTTA get a shill pick for FE as DLC", is that she's an Axe wielder and therefore unique.

What if I told you that even if she wielded an axe that alone wouldn't be enough to distinguish her from the rest of the cast? are the most unique FE characters and they all use swords (hell even all their swords looks different). If she can do something besides throw around an axe then I'll reconsider her chances.

 

[Cosmic77]

I don’t know where to put this so, here’s a hot take.

A character’s personality is just as important if not more valuable than it’s moveset. This one trait can sometimes make a character memorable (like , and ) or can butcher it’s representation in smash and makes me question what was Sakurai doing that day. There are three character that suffer drastically from this. , and .

We all know the story with, Sakurai wants him to be a giant monster with more animalistic features. But isn’t giga bowser meant to represent just that, a mindless monster? It baffles me that talks like he normally does and yet talks in animal noises. He plays like he should, a big bully who takes what he wants and dosen’t care about is suroundings, but he dosen’t sound like he should.

´s problem comes from one simple fact, she is completely out of character. Instead of the stoic yet childish and dorky character with somewhat feminin traits, she is arrogant, sassy, and pretty much acts like your average « strong independant women » you see these days. The origin of the problem however doesn’t come from Sakurai wanting to portray the character the way he wants, but rather a mistake in translation that made her sound that way. If anything Sakurai is trying to correct that mistake.

Finally we have . Now I have not played ff7 so correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t he supposed to be a layed back dork who still takes things seriously when needed? Because if he is, than smash definitely doesn’t have that. Instead it’s the dreaded « emo-cloud ». The tipycal edgy anime protag persona he took is definitely not what he needs. The reasoning here is just simple, it’s just nomura that wrote him this way in the games he developed. That still is a disservice to is character tho.

So yeah a weird take on a part of smash characters that I don’t see talked about often but I think it’s important to talk about it when it comes to a characters portrayl. Not if it’s interesting but rather is it accurate?

In my opinion, the personality doesn't matter that much. The amount of personality you can squeeze into a Smash character is limited, so a majority of the roster is bound to seem underwhelming compared to their games. Lucina had a whole game where she could show the player what she was like through full sentences in textboxes. Here, all she has is a few voice clips.

Representing the moveset properly is more important. Getting a character who fights nothing like you'd expect is the worst. Just ask Ganon's fans.

 

[Grie]

In my opinion, the personality doesn't matter that much. The amount of personality you can squeeze into a Smash character is limited, so a majority of the roster is bound to seem underwhelming compared to their games. Lucina had a whole game where she could show the player what she was like through full sentences in textboxes. Here, all she has is a few voice clips.

Representing the moveset properly is more important. Getting a character who fights nothing like you'd expect is the worst. Just ask Ganon's fans.

Well you do have a point, I’m gonna defend mine a little bit.

While it is absolutely laughable that ganon dosen’t use any magic abilities yet even after four games, is in game personality does try to remove some salt from the wound. In game, he is a power hungry warlock with a cunning mind. If you told someone that I am confident that this would be what a lot of people think of. They would think of a huge presence that goes up to your face and chokes you to death with is bare hands.
Again, not trying to defend ganon’s moveset inaccuracies, just trying to defend my point.

 

[UserKev]

How are you defining generically anime? Because I’m sorry, I love Shanks, but he doesn’t stand out all that much in comparison to any one on Smash’s roster. I like the designs in One Piece, but they’re pretty much one of the ways you would define anime aesthetics. Also, Joker already uses a knife and you see how well that goes over with those same people.

No, I'm sorry. Because you really lack understanding and is too literal. And you clearly don't love Shanks.

 

[Opossum]

Here's a relevant take: Lucina's victory quote against Marth is a far bigger issue than Ganondorf not using magic, as far as going against canon is concerned.

 

[Gyrom8]

I think people are too attached to Mr. Doriyah at this point that a complete overhaul of his moveset would be controversial - just replace Warlock Punch with Dead Man's Volley and I'll be content

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

´s problem comes from one simple fact, she is completely out of character. Instead of the stoic yet childish and dorky character with somewhat feminin traits, she is arrogant, sassy, and pretty much acts like your average « strong independant women » you see these days. The origin of the problem however doesn’t come from Sakurai wanting to portray the character the way he wants, but rather a mistake in translation that made her sound that way. If anything Sakurai is trying to correct that mistake.

This has always bothered me. Lucina has none of her charm in Smash, it's as if she's trying to imitate or something. You see characters like , , hell even non-speaking ones like and that are bursting with fun and accurate personalities, while Lucina's dialogue feels like some bad fanfic writer trying to make her sound tough. I almost wish Alexis Tipton had recorded new lines for her in hopes her dialogue would have been rewrtitten to reflect her original character better.

 

[Xelrog]

There are multiple people making multiple different arguments about swords users right now. Not really any consistency going on.

Moveset has absolutely nothing to do with it for me. I just want the same degree of visual variety as there is among non-sword users.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

No, I'm sorry. Because you really lack understanding and is too literal. And you clearly don't love Shanks.

I can pull any character from the Warriors games and make a compelling argument about their inclusion in Smash then. Nothing in that video does anything to convince me. In fact it makes Shanks look more generic than ever to be honest because, again, Shanks has done almost no real fighting to amount to anything in canon One Piece that we've seen in either the manga or the anime. I understand you're not referring to Shanks specifically in Smash, but he's a horrible example of someone who doesn't fit the traditional "anime swordsman" narrative. Which you've still declined to comment upon or give actual contextualization about. If you're not interested in having that conversation though, I'll leave the rest of this be.

I think people are too attached to Mr. Doriyah at this point that a complete overhaul of his moveset would be controversial - just replace Warlock Punch with Dead Man's Volley and I'll be content

Like people make a big deal about him not having Dead Man's Volley... but I never really got it. A dark magic punch that destroys any opponent it lands on seems so much more interesting to me than what would be a glorified Mario cape reflector. I guess if you had him send out magic maybe it would work better... but honestly, the more I've thought about it over the years, Ganondorf doesn't actually have the most amazing set of moves in canon anyway. Maybe some tuning could be done to make him a little better, but Ultimate Ganondorf is just downright satisfying to play and works plenty well enough as an interpretation of the character at this point. The pig form Ganon would be a much better way I think of dealing with the problem's that Ganondorf creates for some people.

There are multiple people making multiple different arguments about swords users right now. Not really any consistency going on.

Moveset has absolutely nothing to do with it for me. I just want the same degree of visual variety as there is among non-sword users.

I still don't really get this visual variety people are asking for. Is it just because they're all normally shaped humans? Because that's really the only thing I see from a personal standpoint when I look at the roster. Each of the series a character originates from has very distinctive design to me and characteristics. Shulk has very distinctive armor and the Monado stands out next to the Fire Emblem characters, the Dragon Quest heroes clearly have the Toriyama design ingrained in every character, all the Links have distinctly specific styles that separate them from one another, Joker doesn't look like anyone else on the roster, Meta Knight speaks for himself, Pit and Dark Pit look like they belong to the Saturday morning cartoon variety much more than anime specific, Cloud has extremely distinctive style from the rest of the roster, and so on. Like I do not get this complaint and I feel like I'm missing something that people continually bring up against the aesthetics of the sword fighters. Sure, they're not a bear versus a gorilla vs a crocodile levels of distinctive, but they all have very distinct visual flairs that telegraph which series they belong to and serves to differentiate them from one another. They are fundamentally different in style from one another when it comes down to the blades they use, the costumes they wear, and the mechanics they bring...

I mean, I'll give you all the Fire Emblem characters look similar. But I think that's mostly intentional/the result of them picking sword wielding lords over the years/what happens when the fan base won't let go of Roy and we get a Chrom for them as well.

 

[Xelrog]

I still don't really get this visual variety people are asking for. Is it just because they're all normally shaped humans?

Yes. I thought I made that clear.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Well you do have a point, I’m gonna defend mine a little bit.

While it is absolutely laughable that ganon dosen’t use any magic abilities yet even after four games, is in game personality does try to remove some salt from the wound. In game, he is a power hungry warlock with a cunning mind. If you told someone that I am confident that this would be what a lot of people think of. They would think of a huge presence that goes up to your face and chokes you to death with is bare hands.
Again, not trying to defend ganon’s moveset inaccuracies, just trying to defend my point.

Ganondorf uses magic. Just not the magic you see in OOT. Using magic to enhance his physical moves is still literal magic. It's the only way he's been able to even use Darkness and Electrical abilities.

It's obviously not what people expected, so it feels like it isn't really magic, but it no less is. The Triforce of Power doesn't really give him sudden magical abilities outside of becoming Ganon at best. He's still a very strong wizard on his own, which the game still shows. Projectiles aren't the only kind of magic, after all.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Yes. I thought I made that clear.

Missed a post of yours on the last page, my apologies. I still don't really get the complaint when people bring that up (I guess I don't see why it matters if they're all human as long as they bring visually distinctive styles in the rest of their character and also usually bring unique mechanics), but I'm willing to respect that basline opinion and leave it at that.

 

[UserKev]

I can pull any character from the Warriors games and make a compelling argument about their inclusion in Smash then. Nothing in that video does anything to convince me. In fact it makes Shanks look more generic than ever to be honest because, again, Shanks has done almost no real fighting to amount to anything in canon One Piece that we've seen in either the manga or the anime. I understand you're not referring to Shanks specifically in Smash, but he's a horrible example of someone who doesn't fit the traditional "anime swordsman" narrative. Which you've still declined to comment upon or give actual contextualization about. If you're not interested in having that conversation though, I'll leave the rest of this be.

But imagine if Sakurai looked at Shanks and put him in the game. I bet he'd be nothing like the rest of the sword users in Smash.

Its all just basic ideology and concept.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I'm going to throw my two cents in on a recent discussion and say that if Smash DID include one anime character than the best pick they could possibly go with is Light Yagami from Death Note. This is certainly unpopular, but I just don't think in terms of character design that another anime character would be more awesome to have in the game.

Spoiler: Reasoning

As a young adult I absolutely HATE how books and TV shows are written for my age group. Cheesy romance, half-baked plots, soft magic systems, and token characters just placed to fill roles have proliferated in way too many books and TV shows these days. It's part of the reason why I no longer watch anime and I'm super critical when it comes to basically any book, movie, TV show, etc. that I read/watch. But Death Note had none of that and it's part of the reason why I think it's the best anime I've ever watched. There's nothing in that show just to act as filler or to complete rolls or stereotypes. The characters' personalities are defined by how they act in a crisis, solving a mystery, and how the interact with one another. No bad romance or episodes long battles were needed to make great characters. It was thrilling to watch the antihero of the show, Light Yagami, weave entangled webs of traps and loopholes to get what he wants at the expense of his less intelligent peers. He is certainly one of the best fictional characters I've ever seen. And before anyone says that he wouldn't work in Smash because he doesn't fight in his show, Isabelle is in this game. There are no longer limits on how a character acts in their game of origin to determine if they have the "fighting capability" to be in Smash.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I mean Lyn uses Iaijutsu which nobody in Smash uses as none of the swordies in Smash have katanas but go on I guess

Ike's Quick Draw is a form of Iaijutsu, except without resheating his sword. It's name japanese name is even Iai Giri (居合切り).

Also, Iaijutsu is a counter attack oriented style that is less dynamic than other combat methods.

I went on . But sure, now go on and pretend that Lyn would be unique despite her having not having a moveset that can be used as a frame of comparison. Make my day. You can bull**** yourself but not me.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Ike's Quick Draw is a form of Iaijutsu, except without resheating his sword. It's name japanese name is even Iai Giri (居合切り).

Also, Iaijutsu is a counter attack oriented style that is less dynamic than other combat methods.

I went on . But sure, now go on and pretend that Lyn would be unique despite her having not having a moveset that can be used as a frame of comparison. Make my day. You can bull**** yourself but not me.

So Smash can't do something pretty much every other fighting game with sword wielders has because of a single move? Ludicrous take but I've seen worse today

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Ike's Quick Draw is a form of Iaijutsu, except without resheating his sword. It's name japanese name is even Iai Giri (居合切り).

Also, Iaijutsu is a counter attack oriented style that is less dynamic than other combat methods.

I went on . But sure, now go on and pretend that Lyn would be unique despite her having not having a moveset that can be used as a frame of comparison. Make my day. You can bull**** yourself but not me.

That's true about Ike's Laijutsu but it's literally one move, unlike entire movesets that got copy/pasted from other fighters over.

I don't think the issue here is whether or not a swordfighter can be unique or not, it's more about presentation and movement. There's a reason Ganondorf is much more menacing and punish heavy than Captain Falcon who is swift and combo-oriented even though the two share very similar basic movements. If Lyn is given the speed to get up close and punish opponents with fast and agile moves, but can leave herself open to attack if something in the slightest goes wrong (somewhat like Sheik), then she could be vastly different than Ike even if they both use Laijutsu.

So Smash can't do something pretty much every other fighting game with sword wielders has because of a single move? Ludicrous take but I've seen worse today

It's not really like that either. Smash is a platform fighting game with much more open space than others so there is a huge emphasis on diversity in movesets which is part of the reason clones receive much more hate. If Lyn were to have a swordfighting moveset that mirrored some of the FE cast's swiftness but overall remained in a class by herself she could have a unique moveset bit with a similar fighting style. It's easy to imagine how having one move that resembles Ike's quick draw might get some people to dislike her, but I agree with you that one similarity isn't enough to discredit her potential to be unique.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

So Smash can't do something pretty much every other fighting game with sword wielders has because of a single move? Ludicrous take but I've seen worse today

Ah, so you have a reading deficiency.

I never said that she can't be implemented in Smash, but people oversell her potential for uniqueness. And again, no proper frame of comparison means that the point has even less to stand on.

But imagine if Sakurai looked at Shanks and put him in the game. I bet he'd be nothing like the rest of the sword users in Smash.

Its all just basic ideology and concept.

The thing with using a Warriors game as an example is that those games are more flash than substance, so moves are greatly exaggerated in those titles. In those games, your character is supposed to be clearing crowds of enemies left and right; compare the Smash versions of Link, Ganondorf, Zelda, Marth, Lucina and Corrin to their Warriors version. Most of their Warriors movesets tend to be more flashy and area of effect based.

You can argue that a concept has a potential, but you gotta better to showcase that in a more practical way rather than insisting that X character would be "unique" just because you like them. As long as that's the case, that's pretty much the only thing they got going for them.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Ah, so you have a reading deficiency.

I never said that she can't be implemented in Smash, but people oversell her potential for uniqueness. And again, no proper frame of comparison means that the point has even less to stand on.



The thing with using a Warriors game as an example is that those games are more flash than substance, so moves are greatly exaggerated in those titles. In those games, your character is supposed to be clearing crowds of enemies left and right; compare the Smash versions of Link, Ganondorf, Zelda, Marth, Lucina and Corrin to their Warriors version. Most of their Warriors movesets tend to be more flashy and area of effect based.

You can argue that a concept has a potential, but you gotta better to showcase that in a more practical way rather than insisting that X character would be "unique" just because you like them. As long as that's the case, that's pretty much the only thing they got going for them.

I'm not even trying to argue Lyn should be in but using an example of an Iaijustsu character because I know Idon loves them which is why he wants Lyn even if Vergil is the best choice imo. Also that whole point applies to every character, not just sword wielders

 

[UserKev]

The thing with using a Warriors game as an example is that those games are more flash than substance, so moves are greatly exaggerated in those titles. In those games, your character is supposed to be clearing crowds of enemies left and right; compare the Smash versions of Link, Ganondorf, Zelda, Marth, Lucina and Corrin to their Warriors version. Most of their Warriors movesets tend to be more flashy and area of effect based.

You can argue that a concept has a potential, but you gotta better to showcase that in a more practical way rather than insisting that X character would be "unique" just because you like them. As long as that's the case, that's pretty much the only thing they got going for them.

That was only one example. Shanks is also unique in One Piece: Unlimited Adventure and Grand Adventure. The developers for those games basically looked at Shanks as Sakurai looked at Captain Falcon.

As far as the topic of Lyn, I think you should check out this fan made project.

The video is a bit extensive but it could really visualize how Lyn would uniquely function from the rest of the Fire Emblem cast currently represented.

 

[Megadoomer]

Ah, so you have a reading deficiency.

I never said that she can't be implemented in Smash, but people oversell her potential for uniqueness. And again, no proper frame of comparison means that the point has even less to stand on.

There's no need whatsoever for personal insults.

Also, games like Soul Calibur and Samurai Shodown show that it's entirely possible to make a bunch of different movesets, fighting styles, etc. for people who use swords.

It seems like the problem (or at least part of it) is that Smash tends to use Link, Marth, or occasionally Ike as the base for a lot of swordfighting characters, leading to many of them feeling similar, but that doesn't have to be the case.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

So, you just dislike Echoes? The characters specifically made to be exactly the same as their original counterpart?

Yeah I dislike them. It not only ruins a big part of what makes a new fighter unique (see Ganondorf and Dark Samus), but if there is absolutely zero ways for the clone and their counterpart to have unique move sets both from each other and other fighters, then the clone shouldn't be in the game in the first place because it makes the roster and fighter options look bigger than it actually is (see Pichu and Richter).

 

[slrigeigdew]

As for an unpopular opinion, if Smash ever were to include an anime character, I think Sailor Moon would be a much better choice than Goku.

I was surprised to learn how many Sailor moon fighting games that were released decades ago. She would definitely have alot to pull from if she was in Smash.

I'm going to throw my two cents in on a recent discussion and say that if Smash DID include one anime character than the best pick they could possibly go with is Light Yagami from Death Note. This is certainly unpopular, but I just don't think in terms of character design that another anime character would be more awesome to have in the game.

Spoiler: Reasoning

As a young adult I absolutely HATE how books and TV shows are written for my age group. Cheesy romance, half-baked plots, soft magic systems, and token characters just placed to fill roles have proliferated in way too many books and TV shows these days. It's part of the reason why I no longer watch anime and I'm super critical when it comes to basically any book, movie, TV show, etc. that I read/watch. But Death Note had none of that and it's part of the reason why I think it's the best anime I've ever watched. There's nothing in that show just to act as filler or to complete rolls or stereotypes. The characters' personalities are defined by how they act in a crisis, solving a mystery, and how the interact with one another. No bad romance or episodes long battles were needed to make great characters. It was thrilling to watch the antihero of the show, Light Yagami, weave entangled webs of traps and loopholes to get what he wants at the expense of his less intelligent peers. He is certainly one of the best fictional characters I've ever seen. And before anyone says that he wouldn't work in Smash because he doesn't fight in his show, Isabelle is in this game. There are no longer limits on how a character acts in their game of origin to determine if they have the "fighting capability" to be in Smash.

Not gonna lie it's a bit hard to picture Light fighting (unless he commands Ryuk to attack ala Rosalina and Luma) but I personally want Phoenix Wright to be in so I can't complain. I can't deny that he'd definitely look badass compared to rest of the roster.

The anime character I want isn't even from an anime per se but a Pokemon specifically from the anime version, that being Team rocket's Meowth. It's not enough that it be a Meowth tho, it has to talk and act like the anime version too.

 

[Routa]

WFT is the only character with a well made "comeback" mechanic, meter or limit. The fact that you can activate when you want it is a big thing. Joker's Arse (heh) can sometimes activate or deactivate at the wrong time (my friend has SDed couple of times due to it) and Limit being one time use on one special makes it underwhelming (and is often "wasted" when recovering). You can use this boost to increase your damage output at lower % or to increase your killpower when needed. It is closest thing we have to traditional fighting game meter mechanism.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

WFT is the only character with a well made "comeback" mechanic, meter or limit. The fact that you can activate when you want it is a big thing. Joker's Arse (heh) can sometimes activate or deactivate at the wrong time (my friend has SDed couple of times due to it) and Limit being one time use on one special makes it underwhelming (and is often "wasted" when recovering). You can use this boost to increase your damage output at lower % or to increase your killpower when needed. It is closest thing we have to traditional fighting game meter mechanism.

I mean I think Arsene making Joker literally one of the best characters in the game compensates for it sometimes being at a bad moment

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Ah, so you have a reading deficiency.

I'm not sure how personal insults are necessary for a discussion on a fighter's uniqueness but go figure. I guess this is how it is sometimes.

Not gonna lie it's a bit hard to picture Light fighting (unless he commands Ryuk to attack ala Rosalina and Luma) but I personally want Phoenix Wright to be in so I can't complain. I can't deny that he'd definitely look badass compared to rest of the roster.

I guess if they wanted to they could borrow from Jump Force. But that would sound more reasonable if a separate game series was created that included both video game and non-video game characters....which would be totally awesome.

 

[Deleted member]

Personally i'd rather want Panther to get in smash than Krystal.

 

[slrigeigdew]

I'm proud of the way Grant Kirkhope kept the secret of Banjo underwraps. He didnt lie or avoid the questions about Banjo. He just said "don't hold your breath", which is smart since any other answer like "I couldn't possibly say" would have been obvious he was under some NDA.

On the other hand this means it's going to be harder to know which characters are truly deconfirmed or not... which is also a good thing.

 

[~?~]

Joker is a top tier, especially since his competition got nurfed in the last patch.

 

[UserKev]

Personally i'd rather want Panther to get in smash than Krystal.

We're a small bunch. I think she's a really unnecessary addition that feel like it just wants to fill a quota.

 

[Xelrog]

She's the next most popular and well-known Star Fox character. People who aren't Star Fox fans don't know who Panther is.

 

[RealPokeFan11]

Hero is a bland name for the character, and he should be named Luminary by default, with the names Solo, Erdrick, and Eight for his alts. I'm confused why they didn't do this like they did with the Koopalings.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Hero is a bland name for the character, and he should be named Luminary by default, with the names Solo, Erdrick, and Eight for his alts. I'm confused why they didn't do this like they did with the Koopalings.

Those aren't legitimate names from the series though. The Dragon Quest heroes have always just been called Hero from a canonical standpoint and DQ fans have referred to them by their specific number and/or nickname. Hero/Yuusha is just what they have always been called since they're also made to be renamed according to player choice and that's absolutely why Sakurai just called them Hero. To my understanding it has much more meaning and context in Japanese than English where it lands more flatly and doesn't hold as much meaning. Hero seems to be more of a translation related issue than anything where the true equivalent of Yuusha just doesn't exist in English. Which is why Yuusha was chosen for them abroad in the first place.

 

[Deleted member]

She's the next most popular and well-known Star Fox character. People who aren't Star Fox fans don't know who Panther is.

Krystal is a plot device/forced love interest and the only reason shes even popular is because of her design. In her debut she got imprisoned until the last arc where Fox oogles at her. And in the next game the only cutscene she had that was focussed on her was used for a honeymoon joke between her and Fox.

Panther atleast has a personality and a role thats above being a forced love interest.

 

[RealPokeFan11]

Those aren't legitimate names from the series though. The Dragon Quest heroes have always just been called Hero from a canonical standpoint and DQ fans have referred to them by their specific number and/or nickname. Hero/Yuusha is just what they have always been called since they're also made to be renamed according to player choice and that's absolutely why Sakurai just called them Hero. To my understanding it has much more meaning and context in Japanese than English where it lands more flatly and doesn't hold as much meaning. Hero seems to be more of a translation related issue than anything where the true equivalent of Yuusha just doesn't exist in English. Which is why Yuusha was chosen for them abroad in the first place.

Gotcha. It makes a lot more sense bow

 

[Gearkeeper-8a]

In my opinion there aren't really complex or gimmick character in modern smash games, some people talk about if some them were guilty gear or blazblue level of complexity.

 

[Xelrog]

Krystal is a plot device/forced love interest and the only reason shes even popular is because of her design.

You're not wrong. But she's more popular. And that's literally the one and only thing that matters.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

is not top tier.

He's a new character that we're still getting a hold of.
MKLeo is just amazing and he can make anyone look great.
Look what he did for and how opinions then dropped when Leo used him less.


Give it till the end of the year and we'll see how he turns out.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

In my opinion there aren't really complex or gimmick character in modern smash games, some people talk about if some them were guilty gear or blazblue level of complexity.

Yeah people who call Smash characters super gimmicky don't really seem to get how complex gimmicks can get in games that were always meant to be competitive. There's also a stigma against gimmicks in general yet people who hate them tend to be stupid and go "I BET YOU WOULD HAVE PREFERED A GIMMICK" whenever someone says a moveset looks underwhelming. That's not what they said. People forget Cloud blew everyone's minds and looked really fun to play before we saw his gimmick

Also funny you mention GG as I feel Sin's gimmick would work perfectly for Travis Touchdown.

is not top tier.

He's a new character that we're still getting a hold of.
MKLeo is just amazing and he can make anyone look great.
Look what he did for and how opinions then dropped when Leo used him less.


Give it till the end of the year and we'll see how he turns out.

To be fair Ike is a one trick pony who relies on Nair being amazing, Joker has quite a bit more than one ridiculous move

 

[UserKev]

You're not wrong. But she's more popular. And that's literally the one and only thing that matters.

Krystal is popular for all the wrong reasons. Slippy Toad and Peppy somehow may not be as popular, but just as important. At least historically.

Heck, even give me a playable Andross.

Spoiler