Unpopular Smash Ultimate Opinions! - Read the OP before Posting

[Gearkeeper-8a]

Yeah people who call Smash characters super gimmicky don't really seem to get how complex gimmicks can get in games that were always meant to be competitive. There's also a stigma against gimmicks in general yet people who hate them tend to be stupid and go "I BET YOU WOULD HAVE PREFERED A GIMMICK" whenever someone says a moveset looks underwhelming. That's not what they said. People forget Cloud blew everyone's minds and looked really fun to play before we saw his gimmick

Also funny you mention GG as I feel Sin's gimmick would work perfectly for Travis Touchdown.
To be fair Ike is a one trick pony who relies on Nair being amazing, Joker has quite a bit more than one ridiculous move

I think is that people becomes too salty about characters that they don't have interest getting in compared to their favorites character that they would look how to discredit that character inclusion, example people that were salty about joker, cloud or hero inclusion would complain about them using "recycled" moves from other character when borrowed animations has been a thing since smash 64, not only there are only 4 characters with meter but for some reason there too many already lol.

 

[Deleted member]

You're not wrong. But she's more popular. And that's literally the one and only thing that matters.

No it doesnt. A character needs to be popular for good reasons to get into smash, otherwise the smash roster would be a gigantic ****show.

 

[Deleted member]

No it doesnt. A character needs to be popular for good reasons to get into smash, otherwise the smash roster would be a gigantic ****show.

Care to elaborate good reasons? I'm just curious as to what is good enough for Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

Care to elaborate good reasons? I'm just curious as to what is good enough for Smash.

Not being a plot device for the sake of shoehorned fanservice/love interests is a good reason to start with.

 

[Deleted member]

Not being a plot device for the sake of shoehorned fanservice/love interests is a good reason to start with.

So is a bad example of popularity then?

 

[Deleted member]

So is a bad example of popularity then?

No because she has roles beyond being a plot device.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

No it doesnt. A character needs to be popular for good reasons to get into smash, otherwise the smash roster would be a gigantic ****show.

I mean we have Samus Without Power Suit which is the equivelant of MvC adding Drunk Tony Stark

 

[UserKev]

No because she has roles beyond being a plot device.

lol Probably Krystal fans. This thread is for (Unpopular opinions) Not the nitpick at Unpopular opinions thread.

Anyway, give me Andross for a Starfox Newcomer.

 

[Deleted member]

No because she has roles beyond being a plot device.

And doesn't Krystal has roles in Assault and Command?

lol Probably Krystal fans. This thread is for (Unpopular opinions) Not the nitpick at Unpopular opinions thread.

Anyway, give me Andross for a Starfox Newcomer.

I really don't care about Krystal one way or another as I'm quite happy with the roster after the Hero, but a lot of the opinions here would just work better if people were honest and just outright said they don't like or care about the character instead of going on arguments that could easily apply to other characters already in the game.

 

[Deleted member]

And doesn't Krystal has roles in Assault and Command?

Yeah the same roles as Peppy, Slippy, Leon, Panther etc. Stop trying to compare Krystal to Peach, shes nowhere near as bad as Krystal. Atleast Peach has things going on for herself. Krystals barely used her own staff, Fox was the one that used it, and her staff was never seen from again in later installments.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean we have Samus Without Power Suit which is the equivelant of MvC adding Drunk Tony Stark

Remembers that Bone Claw Wolverine exists in MvC2

________________________________________________________

One thought I have which might be unpopular is that the Fighter Pass shouldn’t try to achieve some kind of representation balance.

I’ve seen many people for a good while who either complain about picks like Lloyd or Hayabusa for having a sword or “LoOk LiKe AnImE” now that the Pass got Joker and Hero, or complain about picks like Crash or Agumon for being “AnOtHeR 90s CeReAl MaScOt” or “yEt AnOtHeR pLaTfOrMeR aNiMaL” just because we got Banjo...

If you ask me, I find this deal completely silly: we shouldn’t care about that when this Fighter Pass is clearly based on picks that Nintendo and Sakurai decided for many reasons (some of those including personal interest as in the case of Joker).

Just let people hope for whoever they want, this is just a game and we shouldn’t jump on anyone over their interests.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean we have Samus Without Power Suit which is the equivelant of MvC adding Drunk Tony Stark

Just because theres one example of something doesnt mean there should be more of them. Thats like saying every future newcomer should be some run of the mill enemy because Piranha Plant is a fighter.

 

[Idon]

Just because theres one example of something doesnt mean there should be more of them. Thats like saying every future newcomer should be some run of the mill enemy because Piranha Plant is a fighter.

Plus the only reason ZSS got in was because she was Brawl's Sheik, an addon character that only exists for a gimmick that's been grandfathered through the games.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Just because theres one example of something doesnt mean there should be more of them. Thats like saying every future newcomer should be some run of the mill enemy because Piranha Plant is a fighter.

What I mean is that Smash's roster integrity is significantly lower than people make it out to be. Not saying Krystal should be in, I'm indifferent to her, but it's happened before

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Plus the only reason ZSS got in was because she was Brawl's Sheik, an addon character that only exists for a gimmick that's been grandfathered through the games.

Well, not as simple as that; Sakurai simply wanted a Metroid character for the sake of making the series bigger at the time. Many clones could be seen as a similar way, with a "sure why not" factor. Obviously the gimmick was relevant too. But yeah, she existed for more than just a gimmick, as shallow as "boosting the series for the sake of it" is. No less true.

Which is why I am not surprised by many echoes/clones. Why not boost the series if you can. Many of them could be a bit bigger as is(F-Zero and Pikmin easily could have more characters, even as Echoes/little work done on them).

 

[UserKev]

I really don't care about Krystal one way or another as I'm quite happy with the roster after the Hero, but a lot of the opinions here would just work better if people were honest and just outright said they don't like or care about the character instead of going on arguments that could easily apply to other characters already in the game.

That's the whole point of Smashboards.

That doesn't mean it should be done more than once or twice. Really, who would make a counter argument for a character they don't care for? We all have selfish desires, just admit it.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Well, not as simple as that; Sakurai simply wanted a Metroid character for the sake of making the series bigger at the time. Many clones could be seen as a similar way, with a "sure why not" factor. Obviously the gimmick was relevant too. But yeah, she existed for more than just a gimmick, as shallow as "boosting the series for the sake of it" is. No less true.

Which is why I am not surprised by many echoes/clones. Why not boost the series if you can. Many of them could be a bit bigger as is(F-Zero and Pikmin easily could have more characters, even as Echoes/little work done on them).

Yeah and he went "**** Dark Samus lol I'm adding the deliberately defenceless character **** the lore"

 

[Idon]

Yeah and he went "**** Dark Samus lol I'm adding the deliberately defenceless character **** the lore"

"**** canon, lol jetboot heels."

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah and he went "**** Dark Samus lol I'm adding the deliberately defenceless character **** the lore"

That too. But to be honest, ZSS still overall is Samus, someone who fights in canon, so it's an acceptable break from reality too, if you will. Though echoes weren't thought of yet, and Dark Samus was probably not on his mind at that point. She wasn't requested very much either, with only Ridley have any remote ones. Dark Samus got in because of requests, which was likely only known during the ballot, so that's probably why.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That too. But to be honest, ZSS still overall is Samus, someone who fights in canon, so it's an acceptable break from reality too, if you will. Though echoes weren't thought of yet, and Dark Samus was probably not on his mind at that point. She wasn't requested very much either, with only Ridley have any remote ones. Dark Samus got in because of requests, which was likely only known during the ballot, so that's probably why.

Thank you for not considering that Dark Samus being added as an Echo a decade after her last game would be the same situation she'd get if she was added at her Prime. If she was added in Brawl she wouldn't have been an Echo as those obviously didn't exist. Especially with how obvious it is that Samus' moveset would have been wildly different if she was added a few games later. What options were there, Ridley, which to be fair Sakurai hadn't seemed to consider, the fancy new villain of the best selling Metroid game who's appearing soon, a Hunter in general? Nope, got to make it Samus But Without What Makes Her Awesome. If we HAD to get Samus 2 for the sake of difference then at least have the Fusion Suit with a different moveset

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Thank you for not considering that Dark Samus being added as an Echo a decade after her last game would be the same situation she'd get if she was added at her Prime. If she was added in Brawl she wouldn't have been an Echo as those obviously didn't exist. Especially with how obvious it is that Samus' moveset would have been wildly different if she was added a few games later. What options were there, Ridley, which to be fair Sakurai hadn't seemed to consider, the fancy new villain of the best selling Metroid game who's appearing soon, a Hunter in general? Nope, got to make it Samus But Without What Makes Her Awesome. If we HAD to get Samus 2 for the sake of difference then at least have the Fusion Suit with a different moveset

Honestly, I don't think she had the requests even then. Metroid isn't very popular in Japan, so getting ZSS was pretty lucky alone.

He doesn't add antagonists very often, so it doesn't matter of she'd be unique or not. Nothing was really in Dark Samus' favor at that point.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Yeah the same roles as Peppy, Slippy, Leon, Panther etc. Stop trying to compare Krystal to Peach, shes nowhere near as bad as Krystal. Atleast Peach has things going on for herself. Krystals barely used her own staff, Fox was the one that used it, and her staff was never seen from again in later installments.

It's probably worth noting that Krystal doesn't even exist in the third Star Fox timeline. Krystal's Assist Trophy status pretty much makes sense when you realize that her presence in the past Star Fox titles is far less impactful than what Peppy, Slippy, and even the whole Star Wolf team offered.

So yeah, Krystal is only around for an unnecessary love interest for Fox, and others reason that can't be mentioned.

Mod Edit: Stop talking about inappropriate stuff, thanks.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Honestly, I don't think she had the requests even then. Metroid isn't very popular in Japan, so getting ZSS was pretty lucky alone.

He doesn't add antagonists very often, so it doesn't matter of she'd be unique or not. Nothing was really in Dark Samus' favor at that point.

So basically "Nuh uh Vulnerable Samus Stripped Of Her Badass Power Suit was totally a worthwhile addition with no other possible options". The point is that if Sakurai really wanted a Metroid character then he had multiple options at his disposal that would have been worthwhile, even if it's Literally Samus In The Power Suit But With Different Moves. Samus is like how Snake would have been vastly different if he was a newcomer in Ultimate only that Snake's playstyle still ended up fitting him somewhat because of Peace Walker's endgame and how you need to be tactical to pull off high level Snake play. Samus just has "Oh she shoots this or that"

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So basically "Nuh uh Vulnerable Samus Stripped Of Her Badass Power Suit was totally a worthwhile addition with no other possible options". The point is that if Sakurai really wanted a Metroid character then he had multiple options at his disposal that would have been worthwhile, even if it's Literally Samus In The Power Suit But With Different Moves. Samus is like how Snake would have been vastly different if he was a newcomer in Ultimate only that Snake's playstyle still ended up fitting him somewhat because of Peace Walker's endgame and how you need to be tactical to pull off high level Snake play. Samus just has "Oh she shoots this or that"

I doubt he has multiple options like you think he did.

He almost never adds antagonists. It took him a long time to add Dark Samus and solely due to fan requests. He never even considered Ridley either till after Brawl(despite some requests). Why would he think of a far less important character over a more unique version of the protagonist? So no, I really don't think she had anything actually in her favor. She's definitely less unique than ZSS by virtue of one having a completely different set of abilities. Dark Samus, no matter how you cut it, is a variation of regular Samus' abilities. She's basically her Akuma, and still based off of the same concept of abilities.

I get wanting a unique Dark Samus too. I'd like that too. She has way more potential. Doesn't mean she was actually on the table either.

Keep in mind the first character he added for the sake of being an antagonist alone was Piranha Plant. Bowser was constantly active as not just an antagonist and part of the main Mario ensemble. PP was literally added cause he wanted someone who wasn't a protagonist. Not even Ganondorf was added for more villains, but because he worked out as a clone and had some requests. When you have characters like King Dedede and Meta Knight, they were only borderline antagonists and often on the hero side in most cases, or not even being remotely evil in the actual canon games. So of course they were thought of first. Coupled with, again, Metroid doing poorly in Japan, his choices were still limited. The gimmick is probably what pushed ZSS over the edge of others if he even thought of others. He's very rarely done clones that are the same person as is(with literally Dr. Mario being the sole one, and he wasn't received that well anyway). So Fusion Suit Samus was probably not on the table either, at least before a completely unique version of Samus who also plays an important role in the story, the fact that Samus is still a human underneath, something that you actually are trying to unlock via an ending quite often. Still better than the bikini design, despite obviously a fanserivecy design.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I doubt he has multiple options like you think he did.

He almost never adds antagonists. It took him a long time to add Dark Samus and solely due to fan requests. He never even considered Ridley either till after Brawl(despite some requests). Why would he think of a far less important character over a more unique version of the protagonist? So no, I really don't think she had anything actually in her favor. She's definitely less unique than ZSS by virtue of one having a completely different set of abilities. Dark Samus, no matter how you cut it, is a variation of regular Samus' abilities. She's basically her Akuma, and still based off of the same concept of abilities.

I get wanting a unique Dark Samus too. I'd like that too. She has way more potential. Doesn't mean she was actually on the table either.

Keep in mind the first character he added for the sake of being an antagonist alone was Piranha Plant. Bowser was constantly active as not just an antagonist and part of the main Mario ensemble. PP was literally added cause he wanted someone who wasn't a protagonist. Not even Ganondorf was added for more villains, but because he worked out as a clone and had some requests. When you have characters like King Dedede and Meta Knight, they were only borderline antagonists and often on the hero side in most cases, or not even being remotely evil in the actual canon games. So of course they were thought of first. Coupled with, again, Metroid doing poorly in Japan, his choices were still limited. The gimmick is probably what pushed ZSS over the edge of others if he even thought of others. He's very rarely done clones that are the same person as is(with literally Dr. Mario being the sole one, and he wasn't received that well anyway). So Fusion Suit Samus was probably not on the table either, at least before a completely unique version of Samus who also plays an important role in the story, the fact that Samus is still a human underneath, something that you actually are trying to unlock via an ending quite often. Still better than the bikini design, despite obviously a fanserivecy design.

Irene. Nobody asked for a huge insight analysis on why Bad Choice was the only option possible It's a fact that Zero Suit Samus was only playable in Zero Mission to show how woefully underpowered she is when pushed into a corner with no Power Suit and nothing but a stun gun. We had better choices than that. Not "Oh but maybe this was the case or maybe my imagination was what happened!". Just that we had and still do have better choices for an obligatory Metroid rep. This is just being a contrarian while trying to sound correct because you know WHAT we got and think that we couldn't have gotten something else

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Irene. Nobody asked for a huge insight analysis on why Bad Choice was the only option possible It's a fact that Zero Suit Samus was only playable in Zero Mission to show how woefully underpowered she is when pushed into a corner with no Power Suit and nothing but a stun gun. We had better choices than that. Not "Oh but maybe this was the case or maybe my imagination was what happened!". Just that we had and still do have better choices for an obligatory Metroid rep. This is just being a contrarian while trying to sound correct because you know WHAT we got and think that we couldn't have gotten something else

I'm going to be honest; Zero Suit Samus is a great character choice. I just feel her body frame was poorly done. She was always a character since the first game, a bonus human form for finishing early. The reasoning for existence is poor, though. But not in Smash. She brought a completely unique moveset, despite the dumb Final Smash transformation gimmick being tacked on. Didn't even need the gimmick to be fun to play as, as shown in 4 and Ultimate anyway. So no, I don't see this real problem.

It's fine not to like her(I honestly vastly preferred her in Ultimate when they made her body size way more realistic), but you're being really unfair at this point. So I'm done here. I think her inclusion is perfectly fine and she deserves her spot entirely.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm going to be honest; Zero Suit Samus is a great character choice. I just feel her body frame was poorly done. She was always a character since the first game, a bonus human form for finishing early. The reasoning for existence is poor, though. But not in Smash. She brought a completely unique moveset, despite the dumb Final Smash transformation gimmick being tacked on. Didn't even need the gimmick to be fun to play as, as shown in 4 and Ultimate anyway. So no, I don't see this real problem.

It's fine not to like her(I honestly vastly preferred her in Ultimate when they made her body size way more realistic), but you're being really unfair at this point. So I'm done here. I think her inclusion is perfectly fine and she deserves her spot entirely.

Good job at ignoring everything that was said like how you ignored what you said during this whole thing but hey let's add Marth Without Pants as a unique newcomer alongside Donkey Kong With Boxing Gloves as a unique newcomer as clearly, those franchises couldn't possibly have any addition as worthwhile as that

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Would it be unpopular to state that Petey Piranha would've felt more interesting than a Piranha Plant? I mean, Petey is not Giga Bowser huge in any of the Super Mario titles, nor does he use cages to attack, but I guess the big head could be a major bull's eye during a match.

 

[BlueMonk]

I doubt he has multiple options like you think he did.

He almost never adds antagonists. It took him a long time to add Dark Samus and solely due to fan requests. He never even considered Ridley either till after Brawl(despite some requests). Why would he think of a far less important character over a more unique version of the protagonist? So no, I really don't think she had anything actually in her favor. She's definitely less unique than ZSS by virtue of one having a completely different set of abilities. Dark Samus, no matter how you cut it, is a variation of regular Samus' abilities. She's basically her Akuma, and still based off of the same concept of abilities.

I get wanting a unique Dark Samus too. I'd like that too. She has way more potential. Doesn't mean she was actually on the table either.

Keep in mind the first character he added for the sake of being an antagonist alone was Piranha Plant. Bowser was constantly active as not just an antagonist and part of the main Mario ensemble. PP was literally added cause he wanted someone who wasn't a protagonist. Not even Ganondorf was added for more villains, but because he worked out as a clone and had some requests. When you have characters like King Dedede and Meta Knight, they were only borderline antagonists and often on the hero side in most cases, or not even being remotely evil in the actual canon games. So of course they were thought of first. Coupled with, again, Metroid doing poorly in Japan, his choices were still limited. The gimmick is probably what pushed ZSS over the edge of others if he even thought of others. He's very rarely done clones that are the same person as is(with literally Dr. Mario being the sole one, and he wasn't received that well anyway). So Fusion Suit Samus was probably not on the table either, at least before a completely unique version of Samus who also plays an important role in the story, the fact that Samus is still a human underneath, something that you actually are trying to unlock via an ending quite often. Still better than the bikini design, despite obviously a fanserivecy design.

Dark Samus is way more unique than ZSS ever was. Most of what ZSS is today comes from the moveset made for her in smash, not anything she ever did in Metroid. Now, I haven't played the Metroid Prime games so I could be wrong, but Dark Samus doesn't really use Samus' abilities at all, she predominantly uses her own unique abilities like the attacks she uses in her Sm4sh assist trophy. Sakurai doesn't seem opposed to adding antagonists either, considering he added Meta Knight, King Dedede, Wolf, and Wario in Brawl. Sure, they aren't straight up antagonists, but they've all had very antagonistic roles.

Also, plant wasn't added because he was an antagonist, he was added because he was an unorthodox character. That full quote was "...a game full of protagonists and major players isn't terribly interesting". He was just commenting on how the game mostly had heroes and didn't have any less important characters like plant in it.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

She's the next most popular and well-known Star Fox character. People who aren't Star Fox fans don't know who Panther is.

I have never played a Star Fox game and the series as a whole has never interested me but I've wanted Panther in the game over Krystal for well over a year. You should stop using superlatives in ways like that.

 

[Deleted member]

Good job at ignoring everything that was said like how you ignored what you said during this whole thing but hey let's add Marth Without Pants as a unique newcomer alongside Donkey Kong With Boxing Gloves as a unique newcomer as clearly, those franchises couldn't possibly have any addition as worthwhile as that

Just out of curiosity, apart from Dark Samus which other would have made a good choice for Metroid?

Ridley wasn't added due to Sakurai having difficulties implementing him, a lot of the bosses don't really seem adaptable for the game and the other Hunters were in a game released about 3 months before Brawl's announcement and most likely were developed around the same time.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Just out of curiosity, apart from Dark Samus which other would have made a good choice for Metroid?

Ridley wasn't added due to Sakurai having difficulties implementing him, a lot of the bosses don't really seem adaptable for the game and the other Hunters were in a game released about 3 months before Brawl's announcement and most likely were developed around the same time.

Literally any of the Hunters and even Fusion Suit Samus with a different moveset would have been better than Zero Suit Samus, I'm not saying a 'good' Metroid contender should have gotten in, I'm saying a subpar Metroid contender would have been better than Zero Suit Samus, Again, imagine if the next Marvel VS Capcom update was Drunk Tony Stark. He doesn't have anything in his moves about what makes Iron Man cool, he's just drunk, holding a glass of wine and in his underwear or something. That's the level of "Could you not?" Zero Suit Samus always will be

 

[BlueMonk]

Just out of curiosity, apart from Dark Samus which other would have made a good choice for Metroid?

Ridley wasn't added due to Sakurai having difficulties implementing him, a lot of the bosses don't really seem adaptable for the game and the other Hunters were in a game released about 3 months before Brawl's announcement and most likely were developed around the same time.

I believe Rundas actually had decent support during the Brawl era, but I wasn't around then

 

[Deleted member]

I see all this talk about whether or not Zero Suit Samus is really a good character addition.

And I’m here just happy about the load of Metroid content we got in Ultimate as a Metroid fan, hoping to see the franchise rise back to life with Prime 4 and other potential new games.
Not saying that people can’t dislike Zero Suit Samus doh, it’s a game after all and people are free to like or dislike anything if they want.

I personally find every single character in Ultimate’s roster better than Bone Claw Wolverine doh.

I believe Rundas actually had decent support during the Brawl era, but I wasn't around then

Rundas would be fantastic.

 

[meleebrawler]

Literally any of the Hunters and even Fusion Suit Samus with a different moveset would have been better than Zero Suit Samus, I'm not saying a 'good' Metroid contender should have gotten in, I'm saying a subpar Metroid contender would have been better than Zero Suit Samus, Again, imagine if the next Marvel VS Capcom update was Drunk Tony Stark. He doesn't have anything in his moves about what makes Iron Man cool, he's just drunk, holding a glass of wine and in his underwear or something. That's the level of "Could you not?" Zero Suit Samus always will be

Don't know why you're insisting on comparing a genius millionaire playboy philanthropist to a woman infused with alien DNA meant to enhance her physical potential, trained since infanthood from said aliens before even getting her suit, then got military training on top of all that. Armorless Doomguy seems like a better comparison, and that's a guy who can pulp zombie's heads with his bare hands.

 

[Deleted member]

Literally any of the Hunters and even Fusion Suit Samus with a different moveset would have been better than Zero Suit Samus, I'm not saying a 'good' Metroid contender should have gotten in, I'm saying a subpar Metroid contender would have been better than Zero Suit Samus, Again, imagine if the next Marvel VS Capcom update was Drunk Tony Stark. He doesn't have anything in his moves about what makes Iron Man cool, he's just drunk, holding a glass of wine and in his underwear or something. That's the level of "Could you not?" Zero Suit Samus always will be

I believe Rundas actually had decent support during the Brawl era, but I wasn't around then

That would imply that Sakurai was fully aware of the Hunters when he started development, as that game was released a few months after Brawl development started. If he was aware, its difficult to select one of them as most likely he didn't knew any future plans for them.

I can imagine that the among the reasons he added ZSS was because she looked aesthetically different to regular Samus (in comparison to Fusion Suit and Dark Samus), could be integrated to the Final Smash transformation gimmick and was an option that also covers the atlethic female adventurer. She might not be the best option but is one that Sakurai at the time thought it would work.

 

[Wiinner159]

The issue I have with ZSS is how except neutral B, she is literally just creative liberties the character.
She is based off of canon information about Samus being very acrobatic and flexible due to her Chozo DNA, however in canon it is also shown that when in that form she is practically defenseless with the stun pistol being a sort of last resort, get out of jail tool. It is Samus at her absolute weakest, and so it feels jarring when she’s still able to compete with all the other characters, including power suit Samus.
Secondly the acrobatic parts of her moveset aren’t even the full kit, she’s got a plasma whip and jet boots that while you can argue are references to high jump boots and grapple beam it feels so far removed and in the boots case not at all what they actually do or even look like that it feels more like an excuse.
Now another argument I can see is Sheik, who is in pretty much the exact same boat, being a transformation gimmick character at first who had basically nothing for a moveset to start and was made up entirely. The difference here lies in how the characters are presented in their games of origin. Sheik is portrayed as this capable companion who shows up to provide guidance and teleport songs to Link, and is Zelda hiding her identity so Ganondorf can’t find her. We don’t know her actual combat capabilities but given the timeskip that happens in the game we can presume she can handle herself based off the training from Impa and the years of experience.
With ZSS we don’t need to presume anything as the game she debuts in shows her being a weaker form of herself who can’t even kill a single enemy, just stun them.
Lastly I just wanna say as a moveset ZSS isn’t at all bad, she’s got a unique moveset and gameplay style. But it doesn’t really feel like Samus, it just feels like an original character wearing a Samus costume. Ultimately I can understand why people like her, but those are my grievances with the character.

 

[Idon]

The issue I have with ZSS is how except neutral B, she is literally just creative liberties the character.
She is based off of canon information about Samus being very acrobatic and flexible due to her Chozo DNA, however in canon it is also shown that when in that form she is practically defenseless with the stun pistol being a sort of last resort, get out of jail tool. It is Samus at her absolute weakest, and so it feels jarring when she’s still able to compete with all the other characters, including power suit Samus.
Secondly the acrobatic parts of her moveset aren’t even the full kit, she’s got a plasma whip and jet boots that while you can argue are references to high jump boots and grapple beam it feels so far removed and in the boots case not at all what they actually do or even look like that it feels more like an excuse.
Now another argument I can see is Sheik, who is in pretty much the exact same boat, being a transformation gimmick character at first who had basically nothing for a moveset to start and was made up entirely. The difference here lies in how the characters are presented in their games of origin. Sheik is portrayed as this capable companion who shows up to provide guidance and teleport songs to Link, and is Zelda hiding her identity so Ganondorf can’t find her. We don’t know her actual combat capabilities but given the timeskip that happens in the game we can presume she can handle herself based off the training from Impa and the years of experience.
With ZSS we don’t need to presume anything as the game she debuts in shows her being a weaker form of herself who can’t even kill a single enemy, just stun them.
Lastly I just wanna say as a moveset ZSS isn’t at all bad, she’s got a unique moveset and gameplay style. But it doesn’t really feel like Samus, it just feels like an original character wearing a Samus costume. Ultimately I can understand why people like her, but those are my grievances with the character.

Yeah Smash kinda makes it seem like the Suit is just holding her back when in reality that's where her most powerful abilities come from.

 

[meleebrawler]

Canon strength went out the window the day fighters were able to defeat Ganondorf without resorting to holy weapons like the Master Sword.

 

[KonnerD07]

Bowser Jr. and Little Mac are not bad characters.