Unpopular Smash Ultimate Opinions! - Read the OP before Posting

[Deleted member]

That's a weird way to spell Pac-Land.

I kinda like Pac Land, though its far from great, and an odd inclusion. Why not a stage from Pac Man World?

 

[kaithehedgefox]

Of all characters, why would JOKER be an assist trophy?

Spoiler: My sliding scale of iconicness (estimated)

Here's my sliding scale of 3rd party character iconicness:

These characters are significantly iconic to be playable:

1st: Sonic

2nd: Megaman

3rd: Pacman

4th: Ryu

5th: Cloud/Simon

6th: Bomberman/Heroes (dragon quest)

7th: Reimu (Touhou)/Kyo (king of fighters)

8th: Banjo/Arthur (Ghost and Goblins)/Rayman/Akira (virtura fighter)/Ryu Hayabusa/Sora/Bill Rizer

These characters are not significantly iconic to be playable:

9th: Protagonist (persona)

10th: Jibanyan

11th: Shantae/Fatal Frame Protagonist/Frisk/Klonoa

12th: Shovel Knight/Quote (cave story)/Lilac (freedom planet)/Beck (mighty no 9)

The reason why Joker/Ren should be an assist trophy is because if you look at my sliding scale of iconicness, you can clearly see that Joker/Ren should be an assist trophy because he shouldn't be playable due to low iconicness levels, but still be included in the game. I don't think Persona should have any playable characters as of now, just Joker/Ren as an assist trophy and a few spirits.

It's not only Joker/Ren who should be an assist trophy, many of the character on my sliding scale who are less iconic than Joker/Ren also merit to be assist trophies.

I have several questions

1. You've admitted that these are just your personal opinions. What did you use to base these estimations on?

2. Why should the "amount" of a characters "iconicness" (for lack of a better word) alone be the deciding factor in their inclusion?

3. Why should your personal feeling on how iconic a fighter determine their position in relation to an assist trophy?

I based the iconicness estimations on my senses and logic.

It's because Smash is a celebration of gaming, but not every single videogame character/superstar needs to be playable, or merits to be playable. On the sliding scale of character position, Playable characters are the best, assist trophies are the 2nd best, and spirits are the 3rd best. But when it comes to those who have a potential to be playable, being an assist trophy can be worse than not including them in the game at all.

So if a 3rd party character is significantly iconic they merit to be playable (such as Megaman). If a character doesn't merit to be playable due to being insignificantly iconic, they deserve to be an assist trophy and a spirit (such as Klonoa). If a character is too uniconic to merit being playable nor an assist, they should just be a spirit (such as Pulseman). If a character is so too uniconic or obscure (such as Willy Beamish) to be a spirit nor an assist trophy, they shouldn't be included in the game at all.

 

[Deleted member]

The reason why Joker/Ren should be an assist trophy is because if you look at my sliding scale of iconicness, you can clearly see that Joker/Ren should be an assist trophy because he shouldn't be playable due to low iconicness levels, but still be included in the game. I don't think Persona should have any playable characters as of now, just Joker/Ren as an assist trophy and a few spirits.

It's not only Joker/Ren who should be an assist trophy, many of the character on my sliding scale who are less iconic than Joker/Ren also merit to be assist trophies.



I based the iconicness estimations on my senses and logic.

It's because Smash is a celebration of gaming, but not every single videogame character/superstar needs to be playable, or merits to be playable. On the sliding scale of character position, Playable characters are the best, assist trophies are the 2nd best, and spirits are the 3rd best. But when it comes to those who have a potential to be playable, being an assist trophy can be worse than not including them in the game at all.

So if a 3rd party character is significantly iconic they merit to be playable (such as Megaman). If a character doesn't merit to be playable due to being insignificantly iconic, they deserve to be an assist trophy and a spirit (such as Klonoa). If a character is too uniconic to merit being playable nor an assist, they should just be a spirit (such as Pulseman). If a character is so too uniconic or obscure (such as Willy Beamish) to be a spirit nor an assist trophy, they shouldn't be included in the game at all.

LOW ICONICNESS LEVELS!?
AN ICONICNESS SLIDER!?
SENSES AND LOGIC!?!?


HOHOHOHOGOHOHOHOHOHOHHAHAHAHAHAHA


I can't breathe

 

[SmasherMaster]

The reason why Joker/Ren should be an assist trophy is because if you look at my sliding scale of iconicness, you can clearly see that Joker/Ren should be an assist trophy because he shouldn't be playable due to low iconicness levels, but still be included in the game. I don't think Persona should have any playable characters as of now, just Joker/Ren as an assist trophy and a few spirits.

It's not only Joker/Ren who should be an assist trophy, many of the character on my sliding scale who are less iconic than Joker/Ren also merit to be assist trophies.



I based the iconicness estimations on my senses and logic.

It's because Smash is a celebration of gaming, but not every single videogame character/superstar needs to be playable, or merits to be playable. On the sliding scale of character position, Playable characters are the best, assist trophies are the 2nd best, and spirits are the 3rd best. But when it comes to those who have a potential to be playable, being an assist trophy can be worse than not including them in the game at all.

So if a 3rd party character is significantly iconic they merit to be playable (such as Megaman). If a character doesn't merit to be playable due to being insignificantly iconic, they deserve to be an assist trophy and a spirit (such as Klonoa). If a character is too uniconic to merit being playable nor an assist, they should just be a spirit (such as Pulseman). If a character is so too uniconic or obscure (such as Willy Beamish) to be a spirit nor an assist trophy, they shouldn't be included in the game at all.

Why doesn't your list include Bayonetta and Snake?

 

[Deleted member]

Why doesn't your list include Bayonetta and Snake?

They are so uniconic, they don't even rank

 

[kaithehedgefox]

They are so uniconic, they don't even rank

Actually Snake is iconic enough to be playable.

 

[Deleted member]

Actually Snake is iconic enough to be playable.

Then why wasn't he ranked? You've been caught in lies! Your career is over!

 

[Jomosensual]

Spoiler: My sliding scale of iconicness (estimated)

Here's my sliding scale of 3rd party character iconicness:

These characters are significantly iconic to be playable:

1st: Sonic

2nd: Megaman

3rd: Pacman

4th: Ryu

5th: Cloud/Simon

6th: Bomberman/Heroes (dragon quest)

7th: Reimu (Touhou)/Kyo (king of fighters)

8th: Banjo/Arthur (Ghost and Goblins)/Rayman/Akira (virtura fighter)/Ryu Hayabusa/Sora/Bill Rizer

These characters are not significantly iconic to be playable:

9th: Protagonist (persona)

10th: Jibanyan

11th: Shantae/Fatal Frame Protagonist/Frisk/Klonoa

12th: Shovel Knight/Quote (cave story)/Lilac (freedom planet)/Beck (mighty no 9)

Arguing that Reimu is more iconic than Joker is ..... uh...... bold to say the least

 

[Hadokeyblade]

While I do get hyped for 3rd party characters, I do have a nagging feeling in the back of my mind that like every other fighting game, these are only guest fighters. When the next installment comes, they are the first ones to be on the chopping block and need to be negotiated back. With 1st parties, I can rest easy knowing that since they're home owned they can always come back without outside companies refusing them.

Personally I think this is only an issue for the square gang. Every other company involved seems more than willing to participate

 

[slrigeigdew]

While I do get hyped for 3rd party characters, I do have a nagging feeling in the back of my mind that like every other fighting game, these are only guest fighters. When the next installment comes, they are the first ones to be on the chopping block and need to be negotiated back.

That's a good way of viewing them and how I see them aswell.

Something not alot of people will agree with me on is that I'd rather get a new character from a third party series than to buy a cut third party veteran from the same series. As an example I would prefer Akuma and Raiden DLC over Ryu and Snake DLC in Smash 6 (assuming that those 2 are cut and sold as DLC like in smash 4)

 

[Xelrog]

While I do get hyped for 3rd party characters, I do have a nagging feeling in the back of my mind that like every other fighting game, these are only guest fighters. When the next installment comes, they are the first ones to be on the chopping block and need to be negotiated back. With 1st parties, I can rest easy knowing that since they're home owned they can always come back without outside companies refusing them.

I think it depends on the first parties. I honestly think we're a lot more likely to see Sonic and Mega Man next game than we are Young Link.

 

[Perkilator]

The CPU doesn’t even try when recovering with Bayonetta. It just uses her Up-B once, and doesn’t even bother following up with an aerial Side-B.

 

[StormC]

The reason why Joker/Ren should be an assist trophy is because if you look at my sliding scale of iconicness

Nobody cares about the scale dude. This is all made up nonsense. Just say you don't like Joker being in Smash. It's okay. No need to justify it by making up some scale to say it should have been Bomberman first. This is the unpopular opinions thread, after all.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

All this iconic talk is bumming me out.

Anyway, there's tons of value in every Smash fighter regardless of choice.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

The reason why Joker/Ren should be an assist trophy is because if you look at my sliding scale of iconicness, you can clearly see that Joker/Ren should be an assist trophy because he shouldn't be playable due to low iconicness levels, but still be included in the game. I don't think Persona should have any playable characters as of now, just Joker/Ren as an assist trophy and a few spirits.

It's not only Joker/Ren who should be an assist trophy, many of the character on my sliding scale who are less iconic than Joker/Ren also merit to be assist trophies.



I based the iconicness estimations on my senses and logic.

It's because Smash is a celebration of gaming, but not every single videogame character/superstar needs to be playable, or merits to be playable. On the sliding scale of character position, Playable characters are the best, assist trophies are the 2nd best, and spirits are the 3rd best. But when it comes to those who have a potential to be playable, being an assist trophy can be worse than not including them in the game at all.

So if a 3rd party character is significantly iconic they merit to be playable (such as Megaman). If a character doesn't merit to be playable due to being insignificantly iconic, they deserve to be an assist trophy and a spirit (such as Klonoa). If a character is too uniconic to merit being playable nor an assist, they should just be a spirit (such as Pulseman). If a character is so too uniconic or obscure (such as Willy Beamish) to be a spirit nor an assist trophy, they shouldn't be included in the game at all.

Oh I see lol I totally agree now makes absolute sense no question about it.

Just kidding. This is nonsense. Hooooo boy, this is a doozy.

First of all I should point out that your list of "iconic" characters is flawed in several ways that I don't think you'd ever understand considering this ooga-booga back and forth conversation you've been trying to push. But here goes:

1. How iconic a character is does not have a quantifiable value and cannot be compared in any way unless on the superlative level (which you do not use)
2. How iconic a character is has never stopped them from being in Smash. Banjo-Kazooie, Lucas, Corrin, and the Ice Climbers are in this game. Being iconic or not has never mattered.
3. You don't seem to be willing to acknowledge that these are your subjective, personal opinions and should never be used to justivy if a character should or should not be in Smash. Imagine how badly designed of a roster we would have if the decision to add someone was made purely on how iconic the devs perceived them to be.

Second of all I disagree with it heavily. Nobody cares about some drivel scale you created on the spot to justify who you think objectively deserves to be in Smash or not. You have failed to make a point whatsoever and continue to refer to your personal opinions about characters beneath the mask (If anyone gets that reference your argument that Joker is not iconic is irrelevant) of your idea that each character has a quantifiable level of "iconicness" and can be fairly compared to one another. Yet you continue to refuse to show us how you came to these conclusions and how you so skillfully and masterfully calculated the "iconicness" of each of these characters, instead diverting us saying you used "senses" and "logic" (which I doubt).

News flash! Your opinions are subjective and should never be treated as fact. This "list" of "iconicness levels" is purely your perception of things and isn't official, nor should you be using it to dictate how fighters and assist trophies are arranged. When I asked for the iconic-o-meter in a previous post, I asked for undeniable scientific evidence that this is how iconic each character is, not your "senses and logic"

Besides, if we were to take these ranking of yours into account, let's see.....
Your list says that Jibanyan from (checks google) Yo-Kai Watch is more iconic than Shantae, Shovel Knight, and Quote, three characters from massively successful and critically acclaimed indie games that can be credited for the recent streamlining of indie games across all platforms?

That's....bold.

I also have to agree with SmasherMaster and beg the question, why are Snake and Bayonetta absent from your whimsical list? I find that to be quite odd to say the least.

 

[Sebas22]

Did you all know that due to time constraint, Sakurai couldn't add his cat to the Brawl roster, so he put it on the Pokémon Stadium 2 stage?
I know, it sounds crazy! But if you check the scale below, you'll understand.

Spoiler

Scale of Facts:

1) The Cat
2) Waluigi
3) Everyone else

Ok, seriously speaking. This is something that I absolutely disliked and I was 100% against it in the past, but now my opinion is a bit different.
I wouldn't be mad if we get a Smash Bros X JUMP DLC Pack at some point. Like, not just Goku, but content from the classic series, like One Piece, Dragon Ball, Naruto, etc. Now, hear me out. I know they are not videogame characters, and Sakurai has stated that only videogame characters will get in Smash. And if it stays that way forever, great! But if we ever get to the point that there are no more "hypeable" characters, or any available game characters for that matter, and they decide that anything can get in, I'm just saying I'd be ok with it. But only if it's DLC, so if someone doesn't like it, they can ignore it.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Something to be made clear; if you disagree with a user and don't want to debate, don't respond. You may ignore a user if you simply don't want to read their posts(or other reasons like they're causing issues when responding to you). However, this is something that should never be suggested by regular users.

It is normal for two users who have issues with each other to overall decide to ignore each other to prevent further drama. But one should not be going around trying to suggest multiple users ignore one person. This is to be treated as Harassment and Bullying. It will not be tolerated. Keep that kind of stuff to yourself if you want to personally Ignore someone. It's nobody's business but your own and we never want people to feel like they're being driven out of threads. Again, if there's problematic posters, that's something we need to be reported so the Moderation can properly handle it.

 

[Wyoming]

Did you all know that due to time constraint, Sakurai couldn't add his cat to the Brawl roster, so he put it on the Pokémon Stadium 2 stage?
I know, it sounds crazy! But if you check the scale below, you'll understand.

Spoiler

Scale of Facts:

1) The Cat
2) Waluigi
3) Everyone else

Ok, seriously speaking. This is something that I absolutely disliked and I was 100% against it in the past, but now my opinion is a bit different.
I wouldn't be mad if we get a Smash Bros X JUMP DLC Pack at some point. Like, not just Goku, but content from the classic series, like One Piece, Dragon Ball, Naruto, etc. Now, hear me out. I know they are not videogame characters, and Sakurai has stated that only videogame characters will get in Smash. And if it stays that way forever, great! But if we ever get to the point that there are no more "hypeable" characters, or any available game characters for that matter, and they decide that anything can get in, I'm just saying I'd be ok with it. But only if it's DLC, so if someone doesn't like it, they can ignore it.

Pretty sure it was debunked that it is Sakurai's cat if I recall.

There's no way they'll run out of characters that would garner interest. When a character gets in, another takes its place as the most requested.

 

[Sebas22]

Pretty sure it was debunked that it is Sakurai's cat if I recall.

There's no way they'll run out of characters that would garner interest. When a character gets in, another takes its place as the most requested.

B-b-but, the Scale has never failed!!



... Soo, it's just a random cat? What does it mean?

 

[slrigeigdew]

I think it depends on the first parties. I honestly think we're a lot more likely to see Sonic and Mega Man next game than we are Young Link.

Oh snap, I didn't even consider that. Characters like Young link and Pichu are really only here because of the "Everyone is here" marketing. They could very well substitute some of the 1st party veterans the same way they replaced young link with toon link in Brawl and Smash 4.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Unpopular opinion: This thread has gotten positively headache-inducing to keep up with.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Let's keep our opinions about Smash Ultimate in general, please. We don't need crass comments on issues with the thread. That's something reports can solve. In addition, it adds nothing useful whatsoever and creates a poor atmosphere. People should be allowed to post the opinions they have without being dogpiled or others making crass comments on them. That's the point. There's a vast difference between reasonable discussion and replies, and a lot of these are more Ad Hominem than actual pointing out flaws. Knock it off. We are willing to shut down the thread if people cannot keep themselves civil and respect others.

 

[osby]

While I do get hyped for 3rd party characters, I do have a nagging feeling in the back of my mind that like every other fighting game, these are only guest fighters. When the next installment comes, they are the first ones to be on the chopping block and need to be negotiated back. With 1st parties, I can rest easy knowing that since they're home owned they can always come back without outside companies refusing them.

That's kinda ironic, considering only 11 fighters were ever cut and only one of them is owned by a third party.

 

[VodkaHaze]

I personally prefer World of Light to Subspace Emissary. I've frequently heard people say WoL is worse than SSE, but I disagree. I think avoiding the SSE level design is an improvement, and just battling regular characters with special bonuses is interesting. The boss fights were also cool.

My biggest gripes are WoL has very little replayability unless you start on a new account. Once you get some spirits to a certain level and even put them in the right gym, they slaughter everything. The other was when you obtain your main. If you main Kirby or Mario, great; if you main characters that you unlock at the very end, bad luck.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

1. How iconic a character is has never stopped them from being in Smash. Banjo-Kazooie, Lucas, Corrin, and the Ice Climbers are in this game. Being iconic or not has never mattered..

The iconicness as a factor according to my sliding scale only applies to 3rd parties not first parties.

Arguing that Reimu is more iconic than Joker is ..... uh...... bold to say the least

You are correct! Reimu and Bomberman are both 100 times more iconic than Joker/Ren. Which justifies why they would both make better additions.

 

[Sebas22]

You are correct! Reimu and Bomberman are both 100 times more iconic than Joker/Ren. Which justifies why they would both make better additions.

... This thread is going to get nuked, isn'it?

 

[osby]

You are correct! Reimu and Bomberman are both 100 times more iconic than Joker/Ren. Which justifies why they would both make better additions.

Iconicness is not a quantifiable measure, why are you so stuck on that 100?

 

[RouffWestie]

Crusade's Ganondorf is the most faithful and fun interpretation of him in any Smash Bros game.
SSF2's Black Mage is the both the best playable representation Final Fantasy has ever had in Smash Bros history and the best "turn-based RPG magic-user" type moveset I've ever seen implemented into Smash.

 

[Megadoomer]

The iconicness as a factor according to my sliding scale only applies to 3rd parties not first parties.


You are correct! Reimu and Bomberman are both 100 times more iconic than Joker/Ren. Which justifies why they would both make better additions.

Stop talking about "iconicness" as if it's something that can be objectively measured. You've already been told multiple times that something like that can't be quantified or measured, and you're refusing to listen or even acknowledge it in any way. This is honestly starting to come across as trolling.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

The iconicness as a factor according to my sliding scale only applies to 3rd parties not first parties.

I see. Banjo-Kazooie is first party. Thank you for clarifying.

Like I said, it's better to fact check your posts before making them.

 

[FalconFire93]

I’d actually like to unironically see Filia (Skullgirls) make it in as a character, but I know she has a 0% chance.

Spoiler: Filia Pic

 

[Deleted member]

I think that Chase McCain has a minor shot at getting in Smash.

Not a huge or worthy one, but still an existing shot.

Mostly because he could be a potential videogame character.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I think that Chase McCain has a minor shot at getting in Smash.

Not a huge or worthy one, but still an existing shot.

Mostly because he could be a potential videogame character.

I never really thought about this before, despite the game using Lego as a base everyone in that game is original characters for a game.

 

[Megadoomer]

I never really thought about this before, despite the game using Lego as a base everyone in that game is original characters for a game.

It seems similar to Android 21 from Dragon Ball FighterZ - the character is original to a particular game, but it's still a licensed franchise as opposed to one that started out in video games.

 

[Deleted member]

It seems similar to Android 21 from Dragon Ball FighterZ - the character is original to a particular game, but it's still a licensed franchise as opposed to one that started out in video games.

Ok, that is kind of true.

While everything in the game regarding characters and plot was made solely for it, the game is still based on the LEGO City line of sets.

 

[Garteam]

I really don't like the rhetoric that Smash is now a "gaming crossover" rather than a "Nintendo crossover"

Obviously, with the addition of 3rd parties, many people now think "we're beyond Nintendo at this point". However, I'd instead argue that the 3rd parties we've received enchance Smash's identity as a Nintendo crossover, rather than demeaning it. While franchises like Mega Man, Castlevania, and Dragon Quest are not Nintendo owned, they're so heavily associated with the Nintendo brand that their presence seems logical when imagining a crossover between Nintendo's greats. Heck, the demand for Banjo was pretty much exclusively because he's a long lost Nintendo icon, hence why most people associated his inclusion with homecoming above all else. If Smash really were just a generalized gaming crossover, the 3rd parties we'd be receiving would be completely different. We'd probably see massive games like GTA or God of War getting into Smash if this was the case.

While we do have a few exceptions to this such as Snake, Cloud, and Joker, they kinda get a free pass as they're the icon of their respective series (all of which have at least some healthy ties to Nintendo).

 

[UserKev]

Ignoring that dragged on a** and tedious iconic debate, Little Mac needs a new Final Smash.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I really don't like the rhetoric that Smash is now a "gaming crossover" rather than a "Nintendo crossover"

Obviously, with the addition of 3rd parties, many people now think "we're beyond Nintendo at this point". However, I'd instead argue that the 3rd parties we've received enchance Smash's identity as a Nintendo crossover, rather than demeaning it. While franchises like Mega Man, Castlevania, and Dragon Quest are not Nintendo owned, they're so heavily associated with the Nintendo brand that their presence seems logical when imagining a crossover between Nintendo's greats. Heck, the demand for Banjo was pretty much exclusively because he's a long lost Nintendo icon, hence why most people associated his inclusion with homecoming above all else. If Smash really were just a generalized gaming crossover, the 3rd parties we'd be receiving would be completely different. We'd probably see massive games like GTA or God of War getting into Smash if this was the case.

While we do have a few exceptions to this such as Snake, Cloud, and Joker, they kinda get a free pass as they're the icon of their respective series (all of which have at least some healthy ties to Nintendo).

It's not because of multiple 3rd parties, it's because Sakurai and Reggie both declared it's now a "Gaming crossover". That pretty much seals what it's officially. Of course, it might change come next game depending what cuts could happen, if things like a new Director comes up, etc. But yes, that's what Ultimate is officially declared as.

Whether or not more characters from stuff not remotely related to Nintendo gets in doesn't really change the Director's own statement. People can disagree and all, and that's fine, but it's official regardless of that. It also really didn't keep the hard "Nintendo All-Stars" thing once Brawl hit, and didn't really emphasize it during Melee much at all either(Sakurai was even offered to have Sonic and Snake in it, but couldn't due to time constraints. He never said anything about the 3rd party factor, or some idea he cares about whether they're Nintendo-related or not. Then again, he did say Console Wars should be ignored, so it's safe to say he doesn't care that much about the Nintendo factor as people like to think he does. He easily takes it into account, but calling it a key factor is misleading. All his statements so far show it's only something he looks at at best, but isn't an actual criteria they need a Nintendo relation(never mind an appearance).

There's also little reason to believe most 3rd party characters having some Nintendo connection is the key factor. Banjo-Kazooie is one of the few where it partially mattered, and that was more due to the massive amount of votes they got in the ballot. Bayonetta likely was getting in due to the whole Nintendo publishing her games, as there's good reason to believe that she was chosen before the Ballot results were in(though it doesn't change how she was voted for. Sakurai literally did not say she got in due to the ballot, but that she was added(for vague reasons) and that she also happened to be one of the most voted characters worldwide among realizable characters. Due to the data we have, there's a fair chance it's a coincidence overall). And I can't remember, but I think Sakurai mentioned MegaMan being on Nintendo as a notable thing. But that was really it for any actual mentions or something where it's pretty clear as day. Cloud didn't get in for some Nintendo factor, he got in because FF was a juggernaut series and the most popular was the best choice. It was coincidence it started on Nintendo, not something he even mentioned. Closest he mentioned is an afterthought about his inclusion, which is that he might've said no if he had no Nintendo appearances, making it a "maybe" by his wording and various statements backing up his very clear opinion of 3rd parties in general.

 

[Xelrog]

I really don't like the rhetoric that Smash is now a "gaming crossover" rather than a "Nintendo crossover"

Obviously, with the addition of 3rd parties, many people now think "we're beyond Nintendo at this point". However, I'd instead argue that the 3rd parties we've received enchance Smash's identity as a Nintendo crossover, rather than demeaning it. While franchises like Mega Man, Castlevania, and Dragon Quest are not Nintendo owned, they're so heavily associated with the Nintendo brand that their presence seems logical when imagining a crossover between Nintendo's greats. Heck, the demand for Banjo was pretty much exclusively because he's a long lost Nintendo icon, hence why most people associated his inclusion with homecoming above all else. If Smash really were just a generalized gaming crossover, the 3rd parties we'd be receiving would be completely different. We'd probably see massive games like GTA or God of War getting into Smash if this was the case.

Who says we won't?

That said, I hope interesting aesthetic/abilities continue to be considered with the inclusion of new characters, third party or otherwise. If half of modern gaming's IP's get added, the game will be full of dishwater John Actionheroes. My problem with a series like GTA in Smash has nothing to do with the fact that it's third party, it's that the series strives for realism and thus makes for an extremely boring character that will inherently be very similar to every other character from a game that strives for realism. Just a dude in a tanktop with guns.

 

[Lenidem]

It's not because of multiple 3rd parties, it's because Sakurai and Reggie both declared it's now a "Gaming crossover". That pretty much seals what it's officially. Of course, it might change come next game depending what cuts could happen, if things like a new Director comes up, etc. But yes, that's what Ultimate is officially declared as.

Whether or not more characters from stuff not remotely related to Nintendo gets in doesn't really change the Director's own statement. People can disagree and all, and that's fine, but it's official regardless of that. It also really didn't keep the hard "Nintendo All-Stars" thing once Brawl hit, and didn't really emphasize it during Melee much at all either(Sakurai was even offered to have Sonic and Snake in it, but couldn't due to time constraints. He never said anything about the 3rd party factor, or some idea he cares about whether they're Nintendo-related or not. Then again, he did say Console Wars should be ignored, so it's safe to say he doesn't care that much about the Nintendo factor as people like to think he does. He easily takes it into account, but calling it a key factor is misleading. All his statements so far show it's only something he looks at at best, but isn't an actual criteria they need a Nintendo relation(never mind an appearance).

There's also little reason to believe most 3rd party characters having some Nintendo connection is the key factor. Banjo-Kazooie is one of the few where it partially mattered, and that was more due to the massive amount of votes they got in the ballot. Bayonetta likely was getting in due to the whole Nintendo publishing her games, as there's good reason to believe that she was chosen before the Ballot results were in(though it doesn't change how she was voted for. Sakurai literally did not say she got in due to the ballot, but that she was added(for vague reasons) and that she also happened to be one of the most voted characters worldwide among realizable characters. Due to the data we have, there's a fair chance it's a coincidence overall). And I can't remember, but I think Sakurai mentioned MegaMan being on Nintendo as a notable thing. But that was really it for any actual mentions or something where it's pretty clear as day. Cloud didn't get in for some Nintendo factor, he got in because FF was a juggernaut series and the most popular was the best choice. It was coincidence it started on Nintendo, not something he even mentioned. Closest he mentioned is an afterthought about his inclusion, which is that he might've said no if he had no Nintendo appearances, making it a "maybe" by his wording and various statements backing up his very clear opinion of 3rd parties in general.

They can officially say whatever they want, the speech about the game is not the game. Adds are full of slogans proclaming the stuff they're selling is this or that.