Unpopular Smash Ultimate Opinions! - Read the OP before Posting

[BonafideFella]

How did you procces another character as making a full fledged fighter?

I clearly said
As in time and effort into making a clone character should've been spent on another character that could be a clone.

Ah, I misunderstood.
Could you provide an example of who you’d replace then?

 

[Deleted member]

Ah, I misunderstood.

Dont worry its all good.

Edit: i just saw your edit and i'd replace Dr. Mario for either Jeanne or Blood Falcon.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Dont worry its all good.

Edit: i just saw your edit and i'd replace Dr. Mario for either Jeanne or Blood Falcon.

Unpopular: Blood Falcon would be more hype than Black Shadow.

I mean really any F-Zero echo would be more exciting than most proposed clones.

 

[UserKev]

Smash having pre-fight cut scenes would be amazing.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Smash having pre-fight cut scenes would be amazing.

I love pre-fight cutscenes but I’m not sure how they would work in Smash, are we talking Mortal Kombat/ Injustice 2 pre-fight cutscenes or are we talking Soul Caliber/PSABR pre-cutscenes for destined battles in single player modes? Or something else entirely different?

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Smash having pre-fight cut scenes would be amazing.

Oh, please no. The less Smash imitates other fighting games, the better, and preflight cut scenes always come off as super stiff to me since they have to work with so much of the roster. They also pretty much feel like a waste of time as soon as you’ve seen them a couple of times and you just end up button mashing in an attempt to get through them.

The current battle intros will more than suffice honestly in giving some character, no need to waste all those resources on pre-game cut scenes for 82 characters.

 

[UserKev]

I love pre-fight cutscenes but I’m not sure how they would work in Smash, are we talking Mortal Kombat/ Injustice 2 pre-fight cutscenes or are we talking Soul Caliber/PSABR pre-cutscenes for destined battles in single player modes? Or something else entirely different?

They'd be Smash styled with Nintendo easter eggs and quirky, voice acting would be barely existent. Smash pre-fight cutscenes would be more facepalms, hints to rivalries, taunts, awkward gawks,, etc of the like. A Peach and Bowser fight would start with Peach being the classic damsel in distress. Just temporary it could be really great and memorable.

If you don't see it its because you literally lack imagination and don't know the characters.

 

[Xelrog]

If you don't see it its because you literally lack imagination and don't know the characters.

You know, your post was perfectly reasonable and respectful until this unnecessary inclusion.

 

[UserKev]

You know, your post was perfectly reasonable and respectful until this unnecessary inclusion.

This post was unnecessary, which is completely irrelevant to the topic. Leave the manners checklist to the mods.

 

[Megadoomer]

Please don't backseat mod, both of you. UserKev, don't insult others because they don't agree with you. They were just asking how that sort of thing would work - there's no need to say that King Sonnn Dededoo lacks imagination because they weren't clear on what type of "intro cutscenes" you were talking about. (like they said, there are many different kinds of those in games)

 

[kaithehedgefox]

There's moveset potential in everyone. I dare say Sakurai picking Yuri as an Assist in the first place could lead to a Fatal Frame representative someday.

Well being an assist trophy can be a step to becoming playable. Remember when Little Mac was an assist trophy in Brawl, but he got promoted in Smash 4.

Spoiler

Now here are quotes from a previous thread.

That isn't how that works. They chose the roster when the project plan started. They didn't say "Hey, let's make this character an assist to piss of their fans." They actually are more like "Hey, we don't have enough time and resources set aside to make this character, but we really think they have fans/are important to the industry/Nintendo- maybe we can make them an assist because it takes less time and resources to do." It still takes time and effort, but not as much. They got added as an assist because of their fans and importance. Smash Bros will never have a roster containing every character somebody in the world wants, but they try and give nods to the more popular and important characters in many different ways- Assists, Items, Stage elements, etc.

I mean you realize that judging by the files in game Plant was planned for base but had to be pushed back so the rest of the roster could be finished in time hence why it was released as free DLC for a while yeah

If they had infinite time to add every character ever then Bomberman would be in. The devs don't want to leave characters out- they try to squeeze in as many as possible (Which is why assists even exist in the first place.) It seems that there were circumstances that led to Bomberman not being chosen as a playable character so they included him as an assist for the fans.

I think the fact that needs to be stressed is that the Playable fighters are picked FIRST. They don't choose the assists first and the choose the playable characters and say "Oh darn, we were going to pick bomberman but we are already planning to make him an assist... so guess no bomberman."
The reality is that assists are picked after the playable roster. So even if they didn't include bomberman as an assist, it doesn't mean he would be playable. It is very likely he wouldn't have appeared at all. A bomberman references is better in my book then no reference at all. Especially with Nintendo choosing DLC- who knows what they'll pick.

But if playbale characters are chosen first, and assist trophies are chosen afterwards. Why didn't they just not have Bomberman as an assist trohpy, and release him as a DLC fighter after the release of smash ultimate?

Joker is not going to be turned into an Assist Trophy, deal with it.

Although I can deal with that, I good idea would've to not have Bomberman as an assist trophy, and release him as a DLC instead of Joker/Ren, and have Joker/Ren as an assist trophy, but have Joker/Ren be promoted to playable in Smash 6.

 

[StormC]

Although I can deal with that, I good idea would've to not have Bomberman as an assist trophy, and release him as a DLC instead of Joker/Ren, and have Joker/Ren as an assist trophy, but have Joker/Ren be promoted to playable in Smash 6.

No. There is no "order" to these things. The very first third party character was Solid Snake. Bomberman missed his chance. He'll get another chance next game. Joker doesn't need to be held back because of Bomberman not being in.

 

[Deleted member]

Daisy should've been a skin, made more unique, or not included at all

 

[kaithehedgefox]

No. There is no "order" to these things. The very first third party character was Solid Snake. Bomberman missed his chance. He'll get another chance next game. Joker doesn't need to be held back because of Bomberman not being in.

But Bomberman was relegated to an assist trophy because they didn't have enough time to make him a playable character. What I was saying that instead of using that time and resources to make Bomberman an assist trophy, they could've used it to make Joker/Ren an assist trophy instead. And then they could've spent the time they had later after the release of Smash Ultimate, to make Bomberman a DLC fighter instead of Joker/Ren. This would make sense because Bomberman is about 100 times more iconic than Joker/Ren.

Or they could've just not have Joker/Ren nor Bomberman as an assist trophy, and still release Joker/Ren as a DLC in the Spring, but still release Bomberman alongside Piranha Plant to prevent delaying the release of Smash Ultimate.

Daisy should've been a skin, made more unique, or not included at all

Nah I think that they could've still made Daisy an echo. Even if they included her, they could've still made Waluigi a playable character. And have King Boo as an assist trophy instead.

 

[Deleted member]

But Bomberman was relegated to an assist trophy because they didn't have enough time to make him a playable character. What I was saying that instead of using that time and resources to make Bomberman an assist trophy, they could've used it to make Joker/Ren an assist trophy instead. And then they could've spent the time they had later after the release of Smash Ultimate, to make Bomberman a DLC fighter instead of Joker/Ren. This would make sense because Bomberman is about 100 times more iconic than Joker/Ren.

Or they could've just not have Joker/Ren nor Bomberman as an assist trophy, and still release Joker/Ren as a DLC in the Spring, but still release Bomberman alongside Piranha Plant to prevent delaying the release of Smash Ultimate.

My brain hurts

 

[StormC]

But Bomberman was relegated to an assist trophy because they didn't have enough time to make him a playable character.

How do you know Bomberman would be playable if they had more time?

This would make sense because Bomberman is about 100 times more iconic than Joker/Ren.

Yeah, nah. I've supported Bomberman since Brawl but this is hogwash. And if "iconic" was the only factor that mattered, we wouldn't have 1/3 of the Smash roster. This "iconic" discussion is going in circles because your argument is based on literally nothing.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

How do you know Bomberman would be playable if they had more time?

It was stated in the quotes in my previous post above.

 

[StormC]

It was stated in the quotes in my previous post above.

Those quotes are indiscernible. Show me proof that Bomberman would be playable if they had more time. Not speculation. Proof.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Bomberman is owned by Konami. Joker is owned by Sega. The only character who could've potentially gotten in over Joker is maybe another Sega character, but that's assuming they were trying to go for another one. The character was chosen and then asked for.

Another character from another company being iconic or not is irrelevant to that. They have nothing in common whatsoever. We don't have Konami characters as DLC at this time, nor even as costumes. There's nothing to suggest Bomberman was ever on the table for DLC.

We don't know why Bomberman is only an AT anyway. Could be the Belmonts and Snake were higher priority, could be he wasn't even considered for playable(not every AT is literally considered for playable first. Just some are, which would be a case of a consolation prize), could be Sakurai had a lot of trouble making a workable moveset with the time given. Bomberman didn't lack requests or anything like that, but requests don't automatically make a character considered. Who knows what's going on. He's never spoken on it.

 

[kaithehedgefox]

How do you know Bomberman would be playable if they had more time?

It's because it was stated that Piranha Plant was originally going to be included in the base game, but had to be DLC due to time management. So if they had more time, Piranha Plant would've been included in the base game. So the same could've gone with Bomberman. If only they had more time they could've made Bomberman playable.

 

[StormC]

It's because it was stated that Piranha Plant was originally going to be included in the base game, but had to be DLC due to time management. So if they had more time, Piranha Plant would've been included in the base game. So the same could've gone with Bomberman. If only they had more time they could've made Bomberman playable.

Piranha Plant was never actually confirmed to be planned for the base game even though there is strong evidence in favor of it. Even so, what makes you think Sakurai would pick Bomberman? There is no actual evidence to support this claim, other than the fact that you want Bomberman to be in before Joker. Show me actual proof that Bomberman would be in the game if they had more time.

I'm trying to be patient with you but your arguments are constantly nonsensical and go in circles. There is no basis other than your claim that Bomberman is more iconic thus he should and would be in before Joker.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Although I can deal with that, I good idea would've to not have Bomberman as an assist trophy, and release him as a DLC instead of Joker/Ren, and have Joker/Ren as an assist trophy, but have Joker/Ren be promoted to playable in Smash 6.

No. That would have been a terrible idea IMO. Consider this: Konami liquidated most of the assets used to make Bomberman games when they took over. It's a miracle we even had another Bomberman game afterwards. Whereas Persona has been a popular and vastly successful series for ages. Persona is much more relevant today than Bomberman.

This would make sense because Bomberman is about 100 times more iconic than Joker/Ren.

Show us the iconic-o-meter that states this, please.

It's because it was stated that Piranha Plant was originally going to be included in the base game, but had to be DLC due to time management. So if they had more time, Piranha Plant would've been included in the base game. So the same could've gone with Bomberman. If only they had more time they could've made Bomberman playable.

This falls under circular reasoning. (Edit: More like association but my point is the same). "If they did so with Piranha Plant, they obviously did with Bomberman too." You do not know that. PROVE to us with FACTS and not just ASSUMPTIONS that Bomberman was relegated to an assist trophy.

Besides, it is not official that Piranha Plant was considered for the base game anyway.

You know a good idea would be to fact check your posts before you make them.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's because it was stated that Piranha Plant was originally going to be included in the base game, but had to be DLC due to time management. So if they had more time, Piranha Plant would've been included in the base game. So the same could've gone with Bomberman. If only they had more time they could've made Bomberman playable.

It was never stated he was going to be in the base game whatsoever. That's a rumor that people created due to many things that happened. Like being found in the coding early on, and having a Palutena's Guidance. Sakurai made his project plan very early on, which nobody was actually added or removed from it. If If PP was ever part of the base game, he can be considered "removed from it", which contradicts his words. He had the plant planned for DLC from the start most likely, but more importantly, Sakurai had enough time to work on it after the regular characters were done. It was also being worked on during base game(which doesn't mean meant for base game), which would give them time to record a Palutena's message for a unique character.

Which also is irrelevant to Bomberman, who wasn't spoken on at all. They have nothing to do with each other.

 

[Deleted member]

But Bomberman was relegated to an assist trophy because they didn't have enough time to make him a playable character. What I was saying that instead of using that time and resources to make Bomberman an assist trophy, they could've used it to make Joker/Ren an assist trophy instead. And then they could've spent the time they had later after the release of Smash Ultimate, to make Bomberman a DLC fighter instead of Joker/Ren. This would make sense because Bomberman is about 100 times more iconic than Joker/Ren.

Or they could've just not have Joker/Ren nor Bomberman as an assist trophy, and still release Joker/Ren as a DLC in the Spring, but still release Bomberman alongside Piranha Plant to prevent delaying the release of Smash Ultimate.


Nah I think that they could've still made Daisy an echo. Even if they included her, they could've still made Waluigi a playable character. And have King Boo as an assist trophy instead.

This is a lot to unpack, so lets move through this slowly.

1. How do you know Bomberman was made an assist due to time constraints? Its more likely that Sakurai or his team figured that they couldnt do Bomberman justice as a fighter

2.Joker was apart of a deal with Sega, and that deal obviously required that Joker be playable.

3. Of all characters, why would JOKER be an assist trophy?

4. Waluigi was impossible to add due to time constraints. Not only did they add new characters, but also nearly every stage in Smash History, every character, and they had to balance it all, so characters like WALUIGI, Ashley, Elma and Isaac weren't added because they were low priority when compared to the other newcomers

5. What is a HEDGEFOX?

 

[kaithehedgefox]

No. That would have been a terrible idea IMO. Consider this: Konami liquidated most of the assets used to make Bomberman games when they took over. It's a miracle we even had another Bomberman game afterwards. Whereas Persona has been a popular and vastly successful series for ages. Persona is much more relevant today than Bomberman.

Show us the iconic-o-meter that states this, please.

Spoiler: My sliding scale of iconicness (estimated)

Here's my sliding scale of 3rd party character iconicness:

These characters are significantly iconic to be playable:

1st: Sonic

2nd: Megaman

3rd: Pacman

4th: Ryu

5th: Cloud/Simon

6th: Bomberman/Heroes (dragon quest)

7th: Reimu (Touhou)/Kyo (king of fighters)

8th: Banjo/Arthur (Ghost and Goblins)/Rayman/Akira (virtura fighter)/Ryu Hayabusa/Sora/Bill Rizer

These characters are not significantly iconic to be playable:

9th: Protagonist (persona)

10th: Jibanyan

11th: Shantae/Fatal Frame Protagonist/Frisk/Klonoa

12th: Shovel Knight/Quote (cave story)/Lilac (freedom planet)/Beck (mighty no 9)

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Spoiler: My sliding scale of iconicness (estimated)

Here's my sliding scale of 3rd party character iconicness:

These characters are significantly iconic to be playable:

1st: Sonic

2nd: Megaman

3rd: Pacman

4th: Ryu

5th: Cloud/Simon

6th: Bomberman/Heroes (dragon quest)

7th: Reimu (Touhou)/Kyo (king of fighters)

8th: Banjo/Arthur (Ghost and Goblins)/Rayman/Akira (virtura fighter)/Ryu Hayabusa/Sora/Bill Rizer

These characters are not significantly iconic to be playable:

9th: Protagonist (persona)

10th: Jibanyan

11th: Shantae/Fatal Frame Protagonist/Frisk/Klonoa

12th: Shovel Knight/Quote (cave story)/Lilac (freedom planet)/Beck (mighty no 9)

I have several questions

1. You've admitted that these are just your personal opinions. What did you use to base these estimations on?

2. Why should the "amount" of a characters "iconicness" (for lack of a better word) alone be the deciding factor in their inclusion?

3. Why should your personal feeling on how iconic a fighter determine their position in relation to an assist trophy?

 

[Calamitas]

Hokay, seemingly endless discussions about "iconicness" aside for a moment, here's a new one:

No offense to its fans, but Earthbound already has more than enough content. It doesn't need any more Spirits and music tracks, and especially no stages and fighters. Two unique fighters (well, semi-clones, but they're not classified as echoes, so I'll just put them as unique) and four stages is already plenty to represent a series that consists of three games and that has officially concluded thirteen years ago. Thinking that Porky needs to be playable fighter is just ludicrous to me.

 

[UserKev]

Please don't backseat mod, both of you. UserKev, don't insult others because they don't agree with you. They were just asking how that sort of thing would work - there's no need to say that King Sonnn Dededoo lacks imagination because they weren't clear on what type of "intro cutscenes" you were talking about. (like they said, there are many different kinds of those in games)

Huh? I wasn't. The "You" I used was a reference to whoever immediately dismiss the concept. King Sonnn Dededoo, at least tried to understand my post, hence why I Liked his post.

 

[Perkilator]

Huh? I wasn't. The "You" I used was a reference to whoever immediately dismiss the concept. King Sonnn Dededoo, at least tried to understand my post, hence why I Liked his post.

You said he lacked imagination when he was wondering how pre-fight cutscenes would work.

Anyways, another missed Classic Mode opportunity: Sheik vs. Galleom. The latter has a giant metallic mask on his face, I figured this would be obvious.

 

[UserKev]

You said he lacked imagination when he was wondering how pre-fight cutscenes would work

False. And really, my bro can speak for him self. Otherwise, the rest of you are just really overacting.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Drop it. The moderation will handle it. And yes, we don't want comments on it from others. We'll handle it in private, the way it should be done if a User is questioning a Moderator decision. Flinging accusations at users is something we don't want to see, no matter if it's correct or not. That's just a personal jab at others. If a user is doing something wrong, the Moderation not only is able to handle it better, but we're able to give disciplinary actions to those who refuse to follow the rules.

Another way to put it is Users trying to handle this are overall backseat moderating. This does not help in fixing the issue at all and only makes more messes for us to clean up. It's why we encourage reports and to fully let us handle it.

 

[Garteam]

Here's one I don't think will earn me many popularity points:

While I do enjoy what the 3rd party fighters bring to Smash, expanding the crossover and being fun characters in their own right, I would like to see one first party in the Fighter's Pass. I would be a little bit bummed to see many potentially unique fighters be glossed over simply for being Nintendo owned. Even if it's someone predictable from Sword/Shield or Three Houses, it would be nice to have a first party thrown a bone.

Alternatively, I would love to see first parties play some role in a second Fighter's Pass. However, that seems to be the general consensus for how a second pass should go among the community (at least in my experience) so this point may not be entirely on the thread's theme, but I figured it was worth mentioning.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Here's one I don't think will earn me many popularity points:

While I do enjoy what the 3rd party fighters bring to Smash, expanding the crossover and being fun characters in their own right, I would like to see one first party in the Fighter's Pass. I would be a little bit bummed to see many potentially unique fighters be glossed over simply for being Nintendo owned. Even if it's someone predictable from Sword/Shield or Three Houses, it would be nice to have a first party thrown a bone.

Alternatively, I would love to see first parties play some role in a second Fighter's Pass. However, that seems to be the general consensus for how a second pass should go among the community (at least in my experience) so this point may not be entirely on the thread's theme, but I figured it was worth mentioning.

This is pretty fair, although I doubt we'll see another fighters' pass. If we got a first party I'd at least enjoy someone unexpected.

 

[Xelrog]

It's not that I want third parties because they're third parties necessarily, but all the Nintendo first party bases have been covered. I don't think there's a single first party Nintendo character not yet included who's significant enough to be a higher priority than other third-party figures of gaming history not yet in the game. Dixie and and Bandanna Dee are "we're out of characters" characters. Crash Bandicoot is a "my childhood is now in Smash" character.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Dixie and and Bandanna Dee are "we're out of characters" characters.

I disagree. Considering how long their respective fanbases have been pushing for them as well as their recent appearances in Switch games, I'd say those two, among others, would be the ideal candidates should Nintendo ever look to adding more first party characters. Someone like another generic enemy or some forgotten character from an old game would better telegraph that Nintendo is running out of characters.

 

[slrigeigdew]

If they're going to add new 1st party characters I hope it's ones alot of people actually want and not another "Oh hey this game just came out in Japan let's remind people about it by putting the new protag in". Or at the very least wait until the game comes out outside of Japan so people can actually form some attachment to the new character

 

[SmasherMaster]

As much as I love the guy, I think that out of all the Assist trophies, Waluigi would be the one I consider the point where we reach the bottom of the barrel of Nintendo characters. This is solely because of why he was created as a character, as a filler spot in the spinoffs, so Wario would have a Tennis partner.

 

[Deleted member]

Flat Zone is the worst non huge stage in the game

 

[Garteam]

Flat Zone is the worst non huge stage in the game

That's a weird way to spell Pac-Land.

 

[Idon]

While I do get hyped for 3rd party characters, I do have a nagging feeling in the back of my mind that like every other fighting game, these are only guest fighters. When the next installment comes, they are the first ones to be on the chopping block and need to be negotiated back. With 1st parties, I can rest easy knowing that since they're home owned they can always come back without outside companies refusing them.