Unpopular Smash Ultimate Opinions! - Read the OP before Posting

[Mamboo07]

Upset that Waluigi got disrespected staying as an Assist Trophy for the 3rd time in Ultimate instead of being playable (I got over this, while he won't be DLC, He will be playable in my heart)

 

[slrigeigdew]

I find it weird that some Smash players are so deadset aganist comeback mechanics like Lucario's aura or Rage when they've practically become a staple of most modern fighting games.

 

[The DanMan051]

https://twitter.com/NintenZ/status/1130813827589844992
I'd be 100% fine with this lineup.
Erdrick/Steve/Artorias/Jonesy

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I find it weird that some Smash players are so deadset aganist comeback mechanics like Lucario's aura or Rage when they've practically become a staple of most modern fighting games.

Because Smash isn't like most fighting games. It's meant to be a platform party game at its fundamental level.

People were bent against rage since it's original concept was to benefit heavies for having slow movements and laggy attacks. It was a way of at least giving them some upside since they were all combo food. But since rage was a universal mechanic, it could also be applied to lightweights and combo-heavy fighters as well. That meant that fighters like Sheik or Diddy Kong could also benefit the same way as heavies with rage and could get early KO's just as easily. It became common knowledge that getting the first KO in a game was top priority since then you not only had the lead but you also kept all of your rage and had the chance to create a serious upset (especially on maps with low blast zones like Town and City).

As for other comeback effects, only have true passive effects that give them buffs for taking damage, and get huge rewards for landing a down B counter, but they not necessarily comeback moves.

I genuinely dislike the passive comeback effects. It's annoying to see your opponent getting free benefits off of taking damage. In the case of I understand that it has almost no decent neutral options or KO options at low percents, but it's still really frustrating to go from 0 to 40 in a string of attacks after respawning if they get the first KO.

As for , they already have decent enough options on their own that I'd argue they'd still be fine and viable without limit or Arsene. Their bonuses are basically giving them a cherry on top. Cloud's limit, if executed properly, is like giving him a free final Smash (also considering how hard limit cross slash is to punish). Joker is already a combo heavy fighter with decent KO options. Arsene buffs all of his specials, gives him a ridiculous counter, and makes all of his moves kill earlier and deal much more damage.

What I'm trying to say is that the comeback mechanics give some fighters unneeded rewards that make them much stronger than they already are, and it's really annoying to lose to or at least take a lot of damage from a comeback. It's as if the game is saying "Oh, you're beating your opponent? Too bad, they get a free comeback!"

 

[DMTN]

- I consider the 1st party roster to be complete. That's why I welcome the focus on 3rd parties.
- I think Heihachi would be pretty boring, even though it's undeniable that he's an important fighting game icon.
- Melee has more characters I enjoy playing than Ultimate.
- Corneria is the best stage in Smash.
- Ultimate is fun to play, but boring to watch.

 

[Mamboo07]

- I consider the 1st party roster to be complete. That's why I welcome the focus on 3rd parties.
- I think Heihachi would be pretty boring, even though it's undeniable that he's an important fighting game icon.
- Melee has more characters I enjoy playing than Ultimate.
- Corneria is the best stage in Smash.
- Ultimate is fun to play, but boring to watch.

Eh i agree

 

[Guynamednelson]

"Only the Smash Bubble would like this character"="I am using the supposed narrow minds of the public to justify my own"

 

[UserKev]

Sukapon is the most deserving next retro rep.
Cranky Kong is the next logical DK rep after Dixie Kong if not first.
Ditto should replaced Mii's to continue The Fighting Polygon Team's legacy.
Tyranitar, Arcanine and Dugtrio are missing Pokeball summons.
F.L.U.D.D is the absolute Worst thing to have happened to Mario. Where the ** is his iconic Down B tornado?! Not unpopular? Good.
Pokémon Trainer should have NEVER! happened, period. Disgusting.
Kirby's nature B needs a buff.
Super Mario Bros. 2 for NES got the stage it deserved.

 

[Dee Dude]

-While I still don’t like ‘s inclusion, I can atleast respect and understand’s Sakurai’s decision to why he added it being it was a very unimportant character and while it had horrible timing in the Direct, the plan to making it a free bonus was actually brilliant.

-I’m perfectly fine with Fighter Pass being solely 3rd Party, more possible Waves in the future can be 1st-Party focused again.

 

[osby]

Where the ** is his iconic Down B tornado?!

In his down aerial.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I genuinely dislike the passive comeback effects. It's annoying to see your opponent getting free benefits off of taking damage. In the case of I understand that it has almost no decent neutral options or KO options at low percents, but it's still really frustrating to go from 0 to 40 in a string of attacks after respawning if they get the first KO.

The sad thing about Lucario is that its current damage actually has to be high for it to become an actual offensive threat. But even when Lucario's Aura is strong enough to start KOing, just taking one strong attack is enough to wipe it out.

 

[PhantomShab]

Groose would have been a way better "joke" character than Plant. I could see him being a brawler type with the obvious final smash being the Groosenator. He's bursting with an inflated ego that would be pretty entertaining to see put into his animations and expressions. He already has an actual fanbase so unlike Plant people wouldn't solely be playing as him just "to drink salty tears xD". He also breaks the "heroes and villains" thing that Sakurai used to reason adding Plant in by being a supporting character.

I find it weird that some Smash players are so deadset aganist comeback mechanics like Lucario's aura or Rage when they've practically become a staple of most modern fighting games.

I can't speak for Ultimate's rage mechanic since I disabled it immediately, but in Smash 4 rage stacked with the power/knockback buff of Lucario's aura mechanic was ridiculous. There's "comeback mechanics" and then there's "straight up rewarded for getting your ass kicked the whole fight".

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Groose would have been a way better "joke" character than Plant. I could see him being a brawler type with the obvious final smash being the Groosenator. He's bursting with an inflated ego that would be pretty entertaining to see put into his animations and expressions. He already has an actual fanbase so unlike Plant people wouldn't solely be playing as him just "to drink salty tears xD". He also breaks the "heroes and villains" thing that Sakurai used to reason adding Plant in by being a supporting character.


I can't speak for Ultimate's rage mechanic since I disabled it immediately, but in Smash 4 rage stacked with the power/knockback buff of Lucario's aura mechanic was ridiculous. There's "comeback mechanics" and then there's "straight up rewarded for getting your *** kicked the whole fight".

Since when could you turn rage off?

Also I like how Smash 4 rage is apparantly the worst yet people who know what they're talking about point at Level 3 X Factor in Mahvel. ESPECIALLY with no glasses Wesker and DT Vergil lmao

 

[Idon]

Because Smash isn't like most fighting games. It's meant to be a platform party game at its fundamental level.

People were bent against rage since it's original concept was to benefit heavies for having slow movements and laggy attacks. It was a way of at least giving them some upside since they were all combo food. But since rage was a universal mechanic, it could also be applied to lightweights and combo-heavy fighters as well. That meant that fighters like Sheik or Diddy Kong could also benefit the same way as heavies with rage and could get early KO's just as easily. It became common knowledge that getting the first KO in a game was top priority since then you not only had the lead but you also kept all of your rage and had the chance to create a serious upset (especially on maps with low blast zones like Town and City).

As for other comeback effects, only have true passive effects that give them buffs for taking damage, and get huge rewards for landing a down B counter, but they not necessarily comeback moves.

I genuinely dislike the passive comeback effects. It's annoying to see your opponent getting free benefits off of taking damage. In the case of I understand that it has almost no decent neutral options or KO options at low percents, but it's still really frustrating to go from 0 to 40 in a string of attacks after respawning if they get the first KO.

As for , they already have decent enough options on their own that I'd argue they'd still be fine and viable without limit or Arsene. Their bonuses are basically giving them a cherry on top. Cloud's limit, if executed properly, is like giving him a free final Smash (also considering how hard limit cross slash is to punish). Joker is already a combo heavy fighter with decent KO options. Arsene buffs all of his specials, gives him a ridiculous counter, and makes all of his moves kill earlier and deal much more damage.

What I'm trying to say is that the comeback mechanics give some fighters unneeded rewards that make them much stronger than they already are, and it's really annoying to lose to or at least take a lot of damage from a comeback. It's as if the game is saying "Oh, you're beating your opponent? Too bad, they get a free comeback!"

Also, the argument that "other FGs have it so Smash is okay having it too" seems a bit weird. Like, every FG has cinematic super moves, but we aren't going to legalize final Smashes anytime soon.

And name me one person who liked SF4 Ultras like Elena, MvC3 Phoenix or Lvl 3 X factor Vergil or Akuma and I'll show you a liar.

When Daigo ****ing Umehara is tired of FG comeback mechanics, I'd like to think we've grown past them.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I can't speak for Ultimate's rage mechanic since I disabled it immediately

Underdog Boost is a different thing from Rage, which has been toned down from Smash 4.

 

[PhantomShab]

Underdog Boost is a different thing from Rage, which has been toned down from Smash 4.

Ah. I heard there was a rage option before the game came out and never looked into it anymore after that.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

Smash isn't strictly a party game or a fighting game, it's both.

 

[osby]

He already has an actual fanbase so unlike Plant people wouldn't solely be playing as him just "to drink salty tears xD".

You know people can like a character in Smash even though they didn't know or support them beforehand, right? That's why people play or .

He also breaks the "heroes and villains" thing that Sakurai used to reason adding Plant in by being a supporting character.

I don't recall Sakurai ever mentioning such a theme. Do you have proof for it or are you making that up?

 

[Ze Diglett]

Groose would have been a way better "joke" character than Plant. I could see him being a brawler type with the obvious final smash being the Groosenator. He's bursting with an inflated ego that would be pretty entertaining to see put into his animations and expressions. He already has an actual fanbase so unlike Plant people wouldn't solely be playing as him just "to drink salty tears xD". He also breaks the "heroes and villains" thing that Sakurai used to reason adding Plant in by being a supporting character.

I know people are inevitably gonna jump on you for this post, but I just wanna say that I would unironically pop the **** off if Groose ever got added to Smash.

and no one else would even be able to get mad since we'd finally get our new Zelda rep

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You know people can like a character in Smash even though they didn't know or support them beforehand, right? That's why people play or .



I don't recall Sakurai ever mentioning such a theme. Do you have proof for it or are you making that up?

Sakurai said Piranha plant was more outstanding to him than the average hero. Granted even with this, Groose is still arguably a secondary protagonist post development

 

[PhantomShab]

You know people can like a character in Smash even though they didn't know or support them beforehand, right? That's why people play or .

Right but neither of those characters garnered a fanbase for no other reason than to spite people who were disappointed. I've never seen a G&W Gang or Lucas Gang.

I don't recall Sakurai ever mentioning such a theme. Do you have proof for it or are you making that up?

https://www.gameinformer.com/index....lant-spirits-and-20-years-of-super-smash-bros

"However, if we don’t have these types of fighters, and we only had typical “hero/heroine” type fighters in the lineup, there’s not much difference. It’s probably not very interesting. Correct?"

 

[UserKev]

In his down aerial.

You completely missed the point.

 

[Opossum]

I'd take F.L.U.D.D., an actually canonical move, over something that only kinda-sorta resembles the SMW spin jump any day.

Plus it's a fun edgeguarding tool.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

FLUDD is a great move you guys just don't know how to actually edgeguard.

Side note, Mario gameplay is always so goddamn boring to me because EVERY ****ing highlight video or clip has Mario finish things up with a Fair, haven't ****ing seen that before

 

[Idon]

I blame Brawl Dedede.

I blame Melee Peach.

Pour one out for those 9 Toad fans out there.

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

Here's mine:
-Mimikyu would have been ten times better than Wasted opportunity.
-Literally EVERY argument against Banjo-Kazooie being added is the same arguments people would throw at : "He's dead, he's irrelevant, kids don't know who he is, he hasn't been in a game in years, the creators don't care, there are millions of OTHER characters they could pick over him!"
- got a bad rap overall. Sure, wobbling BREAKS Melee and has recently become a hot-button issue that's tearing the Melee community apart. Sure, Fox and Final Destination are so overused it became a meme. Sure, Metaknight is the ONLY character in Smash history to be outright banned in competitive play, but let's all pretend is the straw that broke the camels back
-I'm not a fan of 's new cape animation, I feel like it comes out slower for some reason
-I don't like the washed out colors, I wish they'd turn the saturation up just a little bit
-I believe Spirits DO deconfirm fighters, It's the bronze medal to assist trophies silver medal
-Waluigi is absolutely worthy enough to be in Smash, but thanks to the fan base no one is allowed to say that anymore without getting dog-piled...

Spoiler: A long one

And lastly: While I do admittedly have a bias for Banjo, I have nothing personally against Minecraft Steve... my issue though is that his potential moveset presents too many logistical problems

For example, building and mining are core parts of his home series and would need to be represented... but building could seriously break the game.
Build a wall and use it to jab-lock your opponent
Build a cave of life
Build a wall to keep your opponent from recovering
Build a platform towards the blast zone, bait them and backthrow them for early killthrows.

"Make the blocks easy to break!" Then what's even the point if your structures can't last?
"Make the blocks temporary!" Again that seems to defeat the purpose of building if what you build vanishes quickly
"Make it so you can only place three blocks!" Then your opponent can just jump over it, and trying to bait a jump for an up-tilt/smash is an easy read

And what about Mining? Having to stand around in one place and dig at the ground would leave you wide open while Fox runs in 0 to death's you. And if you DO mine, does that leave a gaping hole in the stage?

All this and more makes it seem like he'd be really unfun to play and play against. But if you remove building and mining then you lose what makes Steve, Steve... He'd just be a pseudo Villager/Link.

I've seen ideas thrown around where you can craft new weapons and armor akin to Shulk's Monado Arts; but they made Shulk's moves snappy and faster in Ultimate for a reason. If you have to keep hitting your opponents and HOPE you get diamonds to make a Diamond sword it comes down to pure luck..

I have no doubts Sakurai could make Steve work... but from the outside looking in I just see too many issues

 

[Opossum]

I blame Melee Peach.

Pour one out for those 9 Toad fans out there.

I legitimately forgot about the Toad counter lol.

At least we may get Captain Toad one day.

Maybe.

 

[slrigeigdew]

As for other comeback effects, only have true passive effects that give them buffs for taking damage,

I genuinely dislike the passive comeback effects. It's annoying to see your opponent getting free benefits off of taking damage. In the case of I understand that it has almost no decent neutral options or KO options at low percents, but it's still really frustrating to go from 0 to 40 in a string of attacks after respawning if they get the first KO.

I wouldn't call being at kill percent a "free benefit". Also if he has no decent options in neutral and ko power what's the harm in giving him some extra power?

As for , they already have decent enough options on their own that I'd argue they'd still be fine and viable without limit or Arsene. Their bonuses are basically giving them a cherry on top.

What I'm trying to say is that the comeback mechanics give some fighters unneeded rewards that make them much stronger than they already are, and it's really annoying to lose to or at least take a lot of damage from a comeback. It's as if the game is saying "Oh, you're beating your opponent? Too bad, they get a free comeback!"

Limit and Arsene are:

1. Essential parts of both character's games and simply can't be cut from their movesets.
2. Need to be built up and are not just simply given.
3. Need to be powerful for how much time you spend trying to get it.
4. On a time limit that's not even a minute long.
5. Have a clear strengths and weaknesses and can be countered in multiple ways.

 

[Ze Diglett]

And lastly: While I do admittedly have a bias for Banjo, I have nothing personally against Minecraft Steve... my issue though is that his potential moveset presents too many logistical problems

For example, building and mining are core parts of his home series and would need to be represented... but building could seriously break the game.
Build a wall and use it to jab-lock your opponent
Build a cave of life
Build a wall to keep your opponent from recovering
Build a platform towards the blast zone, bait them and backthrow them for early killthrows.

"Make the blocks easy to break!" Then what's even the point if your structures can't last?
"Make the blocks temporary!" Again that seems to defeat the purpose of building if what you build vanishes quickly
"Make it so you can only place three blocks!" Then your opponent can just jump over it, and trying to bait a jump for an up-tilt/smash is an easy read

And what about Mining? Having to stand around in one place and dig at the ground would leave you wide open while Fox runs in 0 to death's you. And if you DO mine, does that leave a gaping hole in the stage?

All this and more makes it seem like he'd be really unfun to play and play against. But if you remove building and mining then you lose what makes Steve, Steve... He'd just be a pseudo Villager/Link.

I've seen ideas thrown around where you can craft new weapons and armor akin to Shulk's Monado Arts; but they made Shulk's moves snappy and faster in Ultimate for a reason. If you have to keep hitting your opponents and HOPE you get diamonds to make a Diamond sword it comes down to pure luck..

I have no doubts Sakurai could make Steve work... but from the outside looking in I just see too many issues

Agreed. The common idea of Steve being able to build and dig away the stage really rubs me the wrong way, especially considering Smash doesn't adhere to a strict grid like Minecraft does and some really janky stuff could happen as a result. What happens if you dig down at the ledge, for instance? Does the ledge just not exist anymore for the opponent to use? We all know how janky and weird Stage Builder collision is, do we really want a character who could potentially invoke that on every stage in the game? And then there's the possibility of wall combos on literally any stage, and ugh... no thanks. I just don't think terraforming is an at all good idea for a game as fluid and dynamic as Smash, which is a large part of why I'd hate to see Steve get in.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I blame Melee Peach.

Pour one out for those 9 Toad fans out there.

Cheers pal, glad I wasn't forgotten by everyone. Why can't you be more like Idon, Sakurai?

 

[Idon]

Cheers pal, glad I wasn't forgotten by everyone. Why can't you be more like Idon, Sakurai?

Probably because he doesn't waste alcohol on lost causes.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Probably because he doesn't waste alcohol on lost causes.

I'm sitting in a waiting room right now waiting for a CT scan result, but this upset me more than potentially having a life threatening blood clot on the brain.

Thanks man.

 

[Idon]

I'm sitting in a waiting room right now waiting for a CT scan result, but this upset me more than potentially having a life threatening blood clot on the brain.

Thanks man.

Ah dude, I'm sorry, I didn't actually mean it, was just poking fun is all.

I honestly think Toad would be great, especially if you give him some Captain Toad stuff.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Ah dude, I'm sorry, I didn't actually mean it, was just poking fun is all.

I honestly think Toad would be great, especially if you give him some Captain Toad stuff.

No, it's alright Idon!
Sorry, just got the all clear, just **** was scary for a sec. Don't feel bad, how the hell would you know?

I probably will still die before Toad gets in though...even if I die from old age

 

[Roguewolf]

I unironiacally crave dry bones for smash god i want this

 

[Idon]

I unironiacally crave dry bones for smash god i want this

Just Dry Bones or like, all the Koopa Troopas?

 

[Roguewolf]

Just Dry Bones or like, all the Koopa Troopas?

Specifically dry bones for a multitude of reasons. Like I love dry bones and play him in any mario game I can. And I like the potential moveset for him with him disconnecting and taking off his bones for attacks.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I unironiacally crave dry bones for smash god i want this

Personally I would prefer Dry Bowser more, but hey, to each his own in this case.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I wouldn't call being at kill percent a "free benefit". Also if he has no decent options in neutral and ko power what's the harm in giving him some extra power?

My point was that it would be infinitely easier to give Lucario a normal moveset and an aura-based move (Like Incineroar's revenge) that wasn't a passive effect, but still played well into the character's design.

it's just frustrating how hard it is to play neutral as Lucario without Aura in effect.

1. Essential parts of both character's games and simply can't be cut from their movesets.

I never said they weren't. I was arguing that they were annoying in the game.

1. Need to be built up and are not just simply given.

...Except both can be gained passively by taking and/or receiving damage.

You forgot about that.

1. Need to be powerful for how much time you spend trying to get it.

I would agree if the effect gained had to be manually built up. But for buffs that can come automatically from simply playing the game, I can't bring myself to say they aren't stronger than they need to be.

1. On a time limit that's not even a minute long.

Fair, but did you read my post? I said it was like having an extra Final Smash, not like getting buffs that last for the entire game. I understand the time limit function and how it can be played around, but that still doesn't deny how easy it can be to get a cheesy KO off of them.

1. Have a clear strengths and weaknesses and can be countered in multiple ways.

Explain. I've never heard of nor seen counterplay against Limit or Arsene (other than waiting it out I guess). I want to hear about this because that would really help.

 

[Xelrog]

Mimikyu would look incredibly boring onscreen. He would have all of two animations: waddle, and grab with giant hand. That would be the entire character.

**** no Mimikyu would not have been a good choice for Smash.