Unpopular Smash Ultimate Opinions! - Read the OP before Posting

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~?~

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Laggy DDD gordos don't carry DDDs.
Olimar is a fun character to watch and play against.
Joker is overrated, overhyped and overplayed, just like the game he came form.
Melee is better.
 
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Beth Uriel

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Sometimes it's more important that the franchise is relevant, not the character alone. Other than characters like R.O.B., Mr. Game & Watch, Ice Climbers, and other "extremely old characters with no new games as is", others have had relevancy as is via their franchise having products. Even MegaMan had something around the time he got in, which while it's only a Comic, it's still a pretty reasonable usage of the franchise. Castlevania not only had the Pachinko machines, but also had a very notable anime.

And then we have characters like Isaac where Golden Sun was definitely not relevant at the time. He's not playable. If look at relevancy as more "is the franchise active in some way?" you might see it fits Smash's design philosophy a lot more closely. Of course, relevancy is just a guideline, not a hard rule. Like, the only hard rule we even have is "no non-game 3rd parties" at this point. And that could change at any point(though I don't think it will).
 

Mamboo07

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Here's some of mine:
-Some of the Fire Emblem characters are Marth clones which is stupid (Corrin and Roy don't count)
-Everyone hates Male Corrin
-Waluigi got so much disrespect also he hasn't gotten a game of his own!
-Wario Land get's no love and representation
-Why oh why did Pichu get in and not others like Steelix or Heracross would have been better?
 

Xelrog

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So I don't think we should ask if a character is "relevant," if only because nobody can actually agree on what that actually entails. We should ask if a character is cool. That's obviously the only criterion Sakurai takes into account. Even seemingly hard rules like "Nintendo characters only" and "No realistic guns" have been utterly decimated.
But every character but Piranha Plant (curveball joke character) has been relevant, at least as I define it. I think it's most definitely a big point of consideration for the developers. Just because a majority of people don't understand the definition the devs use doesn't mean they're not using one.

-Why oh why did Pichu get in and not others like Steelix or Heracross would have been better?
Steelix and Heracross are not...

r e l e v a n t
 
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Beth Uriel

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Here's some of mine:
-Everyone hates Male Corrin
...What? That doesn't make any sense. Some like him, some don't. Of course, maybe you think everybody should? In which case, fair enough.

-Wario Land get's no love and representation
Wario does have some Wario Land stuff, so that's not true. No love is a fair enough point.

-Why oh why did Pichu get in and not others like Steelix or Heracross would have been better?
Main reason is Pichu was a clone of Pikachu. But he's also a Gen II mascot, and the Baby Pokemon mascot. Kind of had more going for it than those two in particular, who are notable, but not on the same level. Of course, not saying you should like Pichu or think it should be in the game, etc. Just pointing out there's some actual strong reasoning why it's our sole Gen II rep.
 

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...What? That doesn't make any sense. Some like him, some don't. Of course, maybe you think everybody should? In which case, fair enough.


Wario does have some Wario Land stuff, so that's not true. No love is a fair enough point.


Main reason is Pichu was a clone of Pikachu. But he's also a Gen II mascot, and the Baby Pokemon mascot. Kind of had more going for it than those two in particular, who are notable, but not on the same level. Of course, not saying you should like Pichu or think it should be in the game, etc. Just pointing out there's some actual strong reasoning why it's our sole Gen II rep.
Sorry for the opions
 

Beth Uriel

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Sorry for the opions
Well, what you said weren't opinions, just some misinformation and worded in a way to sound like facts.

I mean, nothing wrong with who you feel should get in. That's completely reasonable. I agree Wario Land should get more too. Though its lack of content is a pretty popular opinion anyway, heh. Pichu is a very controversial character. Sure, it's a very very popular veteran(part of why it's back for this game), but not everybody likes it either. Some don't like clones. Some don't like Baby Pokemon. Some don't like the fact it deals itself damage. Some might not like Gen II. I could go on. It being one of the worst characters in competitive Melee also doesn't help.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Olimar is a fun character to watch and play against.
This I can somewhat agree with, people just hate him the same reason why people are trying to ban Puff in Melee, "Not hype enough!" because god forbid a character isn't rushdown. Especially as Olimar (And Snake tbh) really want you to go overly aggressive and punish you iirc
Here's some of mine:
-Some of the Fire Emblem characters are Marth clones which is stupid (Corrin and Roy don't count)
-Wario Land get's no love and representation
-Why oh why did Pichu get in and not others like Steelix or Heracross would have been better?
The first two are actually pretty popular opinion. Pichu got in because he was a clone, which is like 6 times easier to make than a fully unique character. It sucks, especially with how cool Heracross would be but it was sadly time restraints that primarily caused it
 

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The more I play Smash Ultimate, the more I stray away with playing as my main Olimar. Now I feel too safe when I play as the character and get easily annoyed and exhausted when I am playing against an Olimar online. It is kind of ironic to say as a Pikmin fan.
 

Troykv

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The more I play Smash Ultimate, the more I stray away with playing as my main Olimar. Now I feel too safe when I play as the character and get easily annoyed and exhausted when I am playing against an Olimar online. It is kind of ironic to say as a Pikmin fan.
Ironic, but probably not unexpected; fighting as an Olimar can be funny just for the simply fact of seeing your opponent tilted (I mean, if they're the kind that overeact)

I hope the new characters surprise me; I'm not expecting anything in particular because my most wanted characters are Micaiah (a character that mostly exists in Spin-Offs recently, and is hard to see what of the options for a FE Character it's the most wanted) and Bandana Dee (kind of the opposite sittuation, existing everywhere in his franchise and being very well requested... but in a DLC Season where that can actually be a problem)
 

osby

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(kind of the opposite sittuation, existing everywhere in his franchise and being very well requested... but in a DLC Season where that can actually be a problem)
I don't think Nintendo is actively trying to refrain from adding requested characters. It's rather they are aiming for characters that can appeal a bigger audience.
 

Troykv

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I don't think Nintendo is actively trying to refrain from adding requested characters. It's rather they are aiming for characters that can appeal a bigger audience.
Okay, I think I forget to say something now that you talk about it.

It should something more like "where being expected would be a problem, specially if you're a First Party".

Being expected as a Third Party isn't actually problematic because... well... nobody from Third Party is actually expected, at least without leaks.

And as you said, they appeal to more, different and bigger audience.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Ironic, but probably not unexpected; fighting as an Olimar can be funny just for the simply fact of seeing your opponent tilted (I mean, if they're the kind that overeact)
Oh no that's objectively one of the coolest things in Smash. I have caused SO many ragequits with **** like the Belmont Axe, Rainstorm, Revenge or Alolan Whip, Space Pirate Rush, Ganoncides, it's ****ing marvelous
 

Manonymous

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Laggy DDD gordos don't carry DDDs.
Olimar is a fun character to watch and play against.
Joker is overrated, overhyped and overplayed, just like the game he came form.
Melee is better.
Hoho, we got spicy ones here. Just a question : why Melee is better ?

Piranha Plant is a good joke done badly and I'm glad all the memers have moved on after realizing it's not a great fighter.
Why does everybody says the plant is bad ? I find it great :( ...
 

pezaddict

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Joker is overrated, overhyped and overplayed, just like the game he came form.
Melee is better.
I don't know about overrated and overplayed (just because I don't frequent communities where he's popular, so I don't have an opinion here), but I think he was overhyped a bit. I'm hoping the other characters and stages are more interesting than Joker is or I'm going to feel a little cheated out of the money I spent on the DLC.

I think objectively, Smash Ultimate has the best roster, but Melee is my favorite for nostalgic reasons and because it has the best 1 player content of any SSB game. Brawl tried with Subspace Emissary and SSB64 gets points for being the original game, but Melee's 1 player is the only one I've ever felt the desire to go back and replay.

Not sure how unpopular this opinion is, but I want a sequel to Poke Floats as a stage, or at the very least have the stage from Melee brought back.
 

Idon

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Why does everybody says the plant is bad ? I find it great :( ...
It's aerials are slow and their hitboxes are small, their grounded moves are also stubby with their killing moves being slow.
Their spike projectile is slow to come out, telegraphed, and has a large deadzone.
Their down B is also extremely telegraphed.
Their side B has to be charged and can be escaped in a lot of situations.

But anyway, I digress, this isn't the conversation to be had here, you'd do better to look in the competitive thread for details on why it's a bad fighter.
 

Calamitas

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Okay, I think I forget to say something now that you talk about it.

It should something more like "where being expected would be a problem, specially if you're a First Party".

Being expected as a Third Party isn't actually problematic because... well... nobody from Third Party is actually expected, at least without leaks.

And as you said, they appeal to more, different and bigger audience.
Are you really sure about that? Because ever since Joker came out, it has felt to me like people expect third-party character more than they do Nintendo character for the Fighter's Pass.
 

CodeBlue_

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Are you really sure about that? Because ever since Joker came out, it has felt to me like people expect third-party character more than they do Nintendo character for the Fighter's Pass.
Honestly it was before that even. Between November and December we had

*Rex and Pyra deconfirmed
*Spring Man confirmed and assist
*Sakurai tweeting in English that Nintendo oversaw the character choices for DLC
*Vergeben rumors for a Square Enix rep
*Microsoft collaboration with Nintendo
*A really weird rumor involving Katalina from Granblue Fantasy being considered

I feel like all of these factors convinced people that we would be getting a predominantly third party roster. Joker just fanned the flames.
 

Beth Uriel

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Honestly it was before that even. Between November and December we had

*Rex and Pyra deconfirmed
*Spring Man confirmed and assist
*Sakurai tweeting in English that Nintendo oversaw the character choices for DLC
*Vergeben rumors for a Square Enix rep
*Microsoft collaboration with Nintendo
*A really weird rumor involving Katalina from Granblue Fantasy being considered

I feel like all of these factors convinced people that we would be getting a predominantly third party roster. Joker just fanned the flames.
As well as Reggie saying that characters would be done in a similar fashion to Joker. It's a very vague tweet in that regard as well. He wasn't clear if he meant "nobody will be a Veteran DLC" or "will be from entirely new franchises." In addition, he said they'd be generally unexpected.
 

slrigeigdew

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In light of recent events:

-Too many people confuse "broken" chatacters with "characters that are annoying for me to play against"

If you think X is broken but less than a handful of Top level X players actually get results then X is not broken you're just bad at fighting X.

-One Smash game doing well is not indicative of the other Smash games. People can enjoy multiple games especially if they're part of the same series.

-Assuming spirits deconfirm characters (I'm 50-50 on this) I can't think of a big 1st party series that doesn't already have representation in smash in some way that warrants a new stage,music and spirits.
 
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Calamitas

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Honestly it was before that even. Between November and December we had

*Rex and Pyra deconfirmed
*Spring Man confirmed and assist
*Sakurai tweeting in English that Nintendo oversaw the character choices for DLC
*Vergeben rumors for a Square Enix rep
*Microsoft collaboration with Nintendo
*A really weird rumor involving Katalina from Granblue Fantasy being considered

I feel like all of these factors convinced people that we would be getting a predominantly third party roster. Joker just fanned the flames.
Excellent point. Though the way I remember it, the confirmation that Nintendo would be picking the DLC moreso lead to people assuming that we would get promotional DLC picks, not more third party ones. Admittedly though, that didn't last long until Joker was announced and changed that perception.

As well as Reggie saying that characters would be done in a similar fashion to Joker. It's a very vague tweet in that regard as well. He wasn't clear if he meant "nobody will be a Veteran DLC" or "will be from entirely new franchises." In addition, he said they'd be generally unexpected.
I think he only ever really said that they will be "characters entirely new to Smash Bros.", or something to that effect. Very vague at any rate, just like you said.
 

Beth Uriel

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I think he only ever really said that they will be "characters entirely new to Smash Bros.", or something to that effect. Very vague at any rate, just like you said.
He said the other stuff too. Though that's a better quote of one of his exact statements.
 
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But every character but Piranha Plant (curveball joke character) has been relevant, at least as I define it. I think it's most definitely a big point of consideration for the developers. Just because a majority of people don't understand the definition the devs use doesn't mean they're not using one.
Is Piranha Plant really irrelevant, though? I think they've been in every Mario game except SMB2/USA. They're like the Octoroks of Mario. And one generic enemy making playable status is good news for Waddle Dee.
 

~?~

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Smash 5 has a more unbalanced roster than people admit.
999 out of 1000 Smash 5 players online are worse than level 9 CPUs.
Smash 5 mechanics feel incomplete just like Smash 4.
Link's bomb is the best character.
 

The DanMan051

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Agreed. While I've never seen Assist Alliance fans actively get hostile toward each other, I have seen hostility on support threads where people have the "all or nothing" mentality or that there's only so much room for newcomers. Basically, some people think that only X amount of AT's or spirits have a chance to become a fighter, so it becomes an up for grabs free for all to decide who that should be.

For example, a few months ago on the Bandana Waddle Dee support thread there was a huge argument over whether or nor BWD should get in over Marx. The mentality was that only one Kirby character had the possibility to become a fighter and it became a huge dispute over who should own that spot.

I can kind of see the same thing happening to AT's. If Nintendo ever announces a poll and says that there's a possibility of an AT becoming a figher, fans of Waluigi, Isaac, Shadow, etc. will be tearing at each others' throats to decide who the top AT is.
And then it'll be Zero who gets promoted and he becomes Bayonetta 2.0 for some people.

I don't always agree with his picks but I think Delzethin's mentality when it comes to speculating characters is very refreshing and much needed in the smash community.

On that note, the biggest hurdle in me supporting a character is their moveset and playstyle. I'd take a unique "nobody" over a beloved fan favorite that's more of the same anyday.
He's a bit of a paradox-- he's both refreshingly varied yet at the same time also displays some crazed mania towards his most wanted (refusing to acknowledge Incineroar at all and then getting low-key pissy in a video when he was revealed while to this day going on about how it's unreasonable for people to expect an 8th gen Pokemon and hoping for Lycanroc long past the point the train has passed.

Sometimes it's more important that the franchise is relevant, not the character alone. Other than characters like R.O.B., Mr. Game & Watch, Ice Climbers, and other "extremely old characters with no new games as is", others have had relevancy as is via their franchise having products. Even MegaMan had something around the time he got in, which while it's only a Comic, it's still a pretty reasonable usage of the franchise. Castlevania not only had the Pachinko machines, but also had a very notable anime.

And then we have characters like Isaac where Golden Sun was definitely not relevant at the time. He's not playable. If look at relevancy as more "is the franchise active in some way?" you might see it fits Smash's design philosophy a lot more closely. Of course, relevancy is just a guideline, not a hard rule. Like, the only hard rule we even have is "no non-game 3rd parties" at this point. And that could change at any point(though I don't think it will).
Sakurai himself has said that "characters from series with no future are unlikely to be picked".
That should be the end of it; aside from the odd NES era retro pick, if the series a character is from isn't actively being utilized in some fashion then they have virtually no chance of getting in (this is especially applicable in regards to the "fan favorites" that got into Ultimate).

Are you really sure about that? Because ever since Joker came out, it has felt to me like people expect third-party character more than they do Nintendo character for the Fighter's Pass.
Because 3/4 of Smash 4's unique DLC characters were 3rd party, with the one that was 1st party being from a set aside list of promotional picks.

With Joker out there and Erdrick/DQ representation being the worst kept secret, past trends are gonna continue; heck, Nintendo themselves said in an investors' meeting that Smash DLC is going to be used to reach out to broader audiences.

Thus, it's only realistic and logical to expect the DLC to be mostly relevant 3rd party characters.
 

UserKev

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You can hate on Melee all you want. Melee perfected Smash with its amazing flaws and peak single player modes.

Funky Kong and Bandana Waddle Dee are forced picks, but you can still support them.

Mimikyu is a massive missed opportunity.

Skull Kid is hyped and for good reasons but his move set has potential to be underwhelming.

Toon Link is a perfect replacement for Young Link. Young Link was replaced because, he's bland.

I'm happy third party were neglected due to time constraints in Melee.
 

Oddball

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Thus, it's only realistic and logical to expect the DLC to be mostly relevant 3rd party characters.
Smash Bros has never been "logical" about what characters it picks. Trying to create rules based on vaguely worded statements or trying to establish patterns based on the weird choices they've made so far can only lead to madness.

Support who you want. It's Nintendo. Who knows what the heck they're going to do at any given moment.
 
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I really dislike the changes to Link in this game. This is first time in any Smash game where I don't even so much as touch the character, let alone main him. His bombs in Smash 4 were one of his best tools and they got replaced by bombs that you need to be halfway across the stage to safely detonate and they can be invalidated just by the opponent casually holding them. He lost his hookshot, along with it a midair poking tool and recovery option. His recovery with up-b is as bad as it's been since Smash 64 and I read that trying to bomb jump with him is tricky and can screw you over. Also read that his frame data on a lot of moves is slightly worse than it was in Smash 4. He has pointless gimmicks like sword beams at 0% that probably never seen any use ever and he can pick up and throw arrows despite never doing that in any Zelda game.

Good think Young Link is here at least, so I have something resembling the old Link to play as.
 

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Here's one of more of mine:

I think people are really, really jumping the gun in terms of a Gen 8 or FE Three Houses rep. Sakurai has only developed a character prior to their game releasing twice, :roymelee: and :4greninja:. Not only was Roy a special case as he was a last minute echo, but Sakurai actually got some of his character details wrong due to using an older build, which bothered him enough to change Roy's depiction when he returned in Smash for. Greninja, on the other hand, had his general development begin near the beginning of Smash for's general development and only had his details filled in once Pokemon X/Y were nearing completion. Without the time of Greninja to develop a character at a more leisurely pace and later fill out the details, Sakurai may risk once again pulling a Roy and misrepresenting the character, something which really goes against his philosophy of trying to make characters as close to their home game as possible.
 

~?~

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His bombs in Smash 4 were one of his best tools and they got replaced by bombs that you need to be halfway across the stage to safely detonate and they can be invalidated just by the opponent casually holding them.
I don't have any issue safely detonating. In fact, high level Links mitigate this issue simply by moving through the air while they pull the bomb, or detonate it. I find pulling the bomb more risk than detonation. At least during detonation, there is a hitbox provided. The bomb is actually why Link is a high tier in this game, and not a low tier like in Smash 4. The majority of characters have little to no value in maintaining Link's bomb because they can't do extensive combos with it. You could argue that a Peach, Rob or Diddy is the last thing you want holding the bomb, but let's be honest, most people and characters have no use for it, other than the fact that you can't use it. Also, they aren't prepared for keeping track of the timer, so they'll eventually get hit with it anyway, lest they toss the bomb before the timer runs dry.

He lost his hookshot, along with it a midair poking tool and recovery option. His recovery with up-b is as bad as it's been since Smash 64 and I read that trying to bomb jump with him is tricky and can screw you over
While hookshot was a multi purpose tool that I sometimes miss, as far as for grabs, I prefer the normal one. The increased speed has been mucho helpful. To address the Up Special recovery issue you mentioned, I don't experience it. I play Link in 64, and his Up Special is probably about 1/5 the distance travel as it is today, so to say it is just as bad isn't really an opinion, but objectively false and provably. BOTW Link may not have hookshot, but now he has his bluebomb recovery, which mind you, is infinitely more effective than the standard bomb recovery methods used in past games. I also personally believe that he has a top 10 recovery (when applying advanced methods). Just because the advanced recovery options are strict doesn't mean they are bad, it just means they require practice and execution skill.

Also read that his frame data on a lot of moves is slightly worse than it was in Smash 4
Well, you're sort of right, and sort of wrong. Some moves have more buffer time, like dash attack, but now dash attack kills, and at ledge, it kills at percents that outrage the people receiving the blow. Also, need I remind you that I can just space a turnaround downtilt to kill you?

LASTLY, let me introduce you to Link's FRAME FOUR Nair, which also happens to be a sex kick that lasts forever. Link is virtually tied for the BEST Nair in the game, and everyone knows it. That's because of how fast it is and as mentioned before, it's a sex kick.


Anywho, hope you change your mind about the character someday and just practice the character. His neutral game is a skillset to behold. I just had to refute the bomb issue that I don't experience ever, as well as the recovery issue that you seem to have, which I don't. Good kill power, AMAZING edge guarder, tough neutral that about half the cast has to really struggle against. I think Link is fine. As you said, Young Link can mitigate your desire for the older style of bomb play. So good luck on your adventure.
 
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Guynamednelson

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Here's one of more of mine:

I think people are really, really jumping the gun in terms of a Gen 8 or FE Three Houses rep. Sakurai has only developed a character prior to their game releasing twice, :roymelee: and :4greninja:. Not only was Roy a special case as he was a last minute echo, but Sakurai actually got some of his character details wrong due to using an older build, which bothered him enough to change Roy's depiction when he returned in Smash for. Greninja, on the other hand, had his general development begin near the beginning of Smash for's general development and only had his details filled in once Pokemon X/Y were nearing completion. Without the time of Greninja to develop a character at a more leisurely pace and later fill out the details, Sakurai may risk once again pulling a Roy and misrepresenting the character, something which really goes against his philosophy of trying to make characters as close to their home game as possible.
As well, Sakurai understands your concerns about the number of FE reps. Corrin and Chrom are just special cases because Sakurai thought one could be unique with dragon transformations and the other is a quick cash-in on his popularity.
 

Lacrimosa

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Is this still unpopular?
Anyway: Roy is much, much better than Chrom. Both on stage and off stage (sourspots aren't a bad thing when they can lead into more stuff).
 

~?~

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Is this still unpopular?
Anyway: Roy is much, much better than Chrom. Both on stage and off stage (sourspots aren't a bad thing when they can lead into more stuff).
Let's be real. Sour Spot Upair is one of the best combo extenders in the game lol
 

slrigeigdew

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He's a bit of a paradox-- he's both refreshingly varied yet at the same time also displays some crazed mania towards his most wanted (refusing to acknowledge Incineroar at all and then getting low-key pissy in a video when he was revealed while to this day going on about how it's unreasonable for people to expect an 8th gen Pokemon and hoping for Lycanroc long past the point the train has passed.
I don't disagree, it's ironic how he always says it's up to Sakurai who ends up in smash but describes Incineroar as an "un Sakurai like" decision. Even by his own made up rules Incineroar fits in. Incineroar is unique, relevant and far from the obvious pick for a gen 7 rep (leaks aside).Just goes to show no one knows Sakurai better than the man himself.
Smash Bros has never been "logical" about what characters it picks. Trying to create rules based on vaguely worded statements or trying to establish patterns based on the weird choices they've made so far can only lead to madness.

Support who you want. It's Nintendo. Who knows what the heck they're going to do at any given moment.
This. After plant and joker, nothing is certain. I think people should just enjoy forget the rules and go along for the ride.
 
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