Unpopular Smash Opinions (BE CIVIL)

[Swamp Sensei]

Pythra.
Pythra.
You forgot Pythra.

Pyra and Mythra absolutely should not count. They have four whole years between their Smash debut and their actual debut.

That's more time than Ike, Lucas, Lucario, Robin and even Pikachu, Inkling and Jigglypuff had.

In fact, that timeframe of four years means Pyra and Mythra were as old as Shulk was, when he made his Smash debut.

Min Min and Pyra/Mythra were blatantly not in the same ball park as Corrin or Byleth. It's not even freaking close. Min Min and Pyra/Mythra were well established and popular characters within their franchises at that point.

 

[Aligo]

Pythra.
Pythra.
You forgot Pythra.

Pythra came out years after XC2's release (late 2017 to early 2021). That is actually a longer time period than Joker (2016 to 2018). Hero was also added partially to advertise dq11 definitive edition.

Obviously xenoblade doesn't have the history or sales numbers of some of its dlc contemporaries, which is a valid complaint.

 

[ZagarTulip]

I don't like Incineroar in Smash

Spoiler: Reason

I don't like the idea of having a Gen 7 rep for the sake of having a rep
Not to mention Incineroar isn't the choice that interests me most --- I'd rather Silvally or Golisopod if we needed a rep from Gen 7
He is a Fire Type Starter --- We have Charizard
A Dark type --- We Have Greninja, which also happens to be a starter
Why do we need starters as the rep for new pokemon gens --- I don't know
Gen 7 is my least fave gen of Pokemon, but I refuse to go into my reasons for that because it is extensive

I like having more Fire Emblem characters in Smash, in fact my most wanted is Ashnard

I think having Alph as an alt for Olimar seems tacky, and using 4 out of 8 slots for Alph just doesn't work well with me, Especially when Dark Pit is literally a recolour of Pit and can have his own slot

I always thought it was kind of dumb how Pit's 6th Alt makes his outfit and wings Black, like... we already have Dark Pit
And then Dark Pit's 7th alt gives him White clothing which makes him feel more like Pit but with Dark Pit's wings

 

[FazDude]

Okay, last night I mentioned I didn't like Pythra's inclusion. Guess I oughta explain why.

My main gripe with it is that it feels like it undermines the whole driver/blade dynamic that was such a big part of XC2. Like, yeah, Rex is there and all, but he only shows up for one taunt, one victory animation, and the Final Smashes. Better that nothing, I guess, but it still doesn't feel like Rex is working alongside Pyra and Mythra as much as he should. Not to undermine the Aegis on their own, but given how much focus was given to the trio's bond in XC2, it feels like something's missing from their inclusion here.

Sakurai stated that it'd be difficult to have Rex fight onscreen alongside Pyra and Mythra, which I guess is a fair point, but there's an issue I see there too. I feel like it'd be doable in some capacity if the Aegis' models didn't have so many damn voxels. Like, look at Shulk, Pyra, and fellow DLC fighter Sephiroth side by side.

First off, Shulk looks ugly - that is true. My main gripe, though, is... well, look at Pyra compared to the other two. She has a radically different art-style - Of course, this isn't a bad thing on its own, but the way her design was handled seems to give her a lot more voxels to work with than the others, which would naturally put some strain on the CPU. If Rex and the Aegis' models were this high-def AND they fought alongside each other, I'd understand if the game had more trouble running them all than it would running an 8-player IC match. Though that begs the question; Why are the models so crazily more HQ than the majority of Ultimate's cast?

I feel like if they had optimized the models for Rex and the Aegis, I feel like it would be at least possible for them to show up alongside Rex for certain attacks, which would feel much more "right" than just having the Aegis playable and Rex showing up for a small handful of animations.

That's my problem with Pythra; I feel like a major part of XC2's core themes and gameplay feel were ignored with how downplayed the bond between the protag trio is, and even as someone who's never played the Xenoblade series and only obtained information on their bond as an observer, that is a pretty noticable problem. I don't want an affinity system mechanic or something dumb like that; I just kinda want the trio working together with just as much cohesion and purpose than what we got.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Oddly enough, people don't really know how Echoes work that well. Though the only hard fact we have is "must be the same bodyshape".

• They've already been the same weight, but the rule was never declared by Sakurai. It's why Dr. Mario could be easily one, though isn't(likely due to Melee veteran status, but he does have significantly more differences than Ken does to Ryu).
• While they're bonuses in a sense, it's more a label and sometimes the reason they are easy to add. However, it's a bit less simple.
  • Every character was added in base game(we have zero DLC Echoes. Mythra/Pyra are not an Echo character, but a regular Model Swap Fighter A.K.A. Clone)
  • Clone is actually misleading since Model Swap Fighters even apply to non-Clones, like Ness is to Mario. It's why the term Echo is not used for all Moveset Clones. They weren't made with the same mindset or rules.
  • Richter is also notable for being the only Echo who pretty much is kind of lucky to have that role in itself, as both he and Simon were intentionally added at the same time, both being equal representatives of Castlevania overall. It's probably cause Simon is more popular or was the first character in the franchise. If they didn't share the same moveset, it wouldn't mean much other than no Echo label(though Richter may not have been added at all but instead be an alt, of which was speculated).
• For a similar reason, trying to shoehorn in echo ideas doesn't work that well. Whereas Dixie Kong can be a Diddy one due to having the same bodyshape, Black Shadow is actually a different one from Falcon(and only really shares a bodyshape closer to Ganondorf, funnily enough). Basically, Echo does not mean "character with a similar concept". If they can't perform the same animations while having the same bodyshape, they wouldn't work.
  • Ironically, Boshi is the only plausible Yoshi echo, despite not being a character in the Yoshi franchise. But cross-series Echoes work just as well as Cross-series clones, so that means little. To make it clear, Birdo does not have the same proportions as Yoshi(they're fairly close), which is why I don't count her remotely as possible. Feels silly to reclarify, but if I don't mention a character, there's a good chance I don't think they count. But you could always ask anyway why I skipped a character. Aggressively going at me won't make any point have any more merit than before nor give any reason to change my mind.
• For the first thing said above, this is why Isabelle was never ever going to be an Echo. Her bodyshape is entirely different. She's a semi-clone, and could've been more different, true. But they had little time, so it's clear why she was only given so much. The game was fairly rushed enough to get out that they couldn't even get some basic bonus games like Home Run Contest out.
• Pikmin & Alph is unfortunate it's nothing more than a palette swap. Though at least it's more a case of the Pikmin than anything else. Making Alph different is easy, but the Pikmin are also part of the intended character design, so changing them up doesn't work so well as they'd need a new Pikmin. It's understandable why they aren't separately playable yet. It takes a lot more work than other Echoes by far and their only idea for a new Pikmin even during Smash 4 was purely a Purple Pikmin(which was meant for Pikmin & Olimar even then). It still should happen, but add more Pikmin so it feels like an actual unique take, but still different. This isn't a Daisy situation where it's super easy to make the moveset work. They still have only up to 3 Pikmin, so it's already implied it's difficult to code. Which is why the characters never had a chance during 4. It's probably why the Purple Pikmin didn't even show up. If it did, we could've either gotten them as a separate clone during 4 or an Echo during Ultimate. Of course, it didn't help that Pikmin was no longer a big deal during Ultimate, so choosing Pikmin & Alph wasn't a high priority on the list.
  • And yes, the character is a combination character. The US and EU names are highly misleading and suggest it's purely the Captain, but that's not how the characters are designed. We got a bad dub name that misleads people into thinking the moveset never revolved around the Pikmin. It's notably emphasized in Smash 4, where you can no longer go solo with a Captain, adding a direct Pikmin move. Solimar was fun, but not really the core plan behind the character design. It was always a group thing and always will be.
  • This is pretty much why every Captain would be a combination of Pikmin differences, as every Captain is completely interchangeable in all but personality. And that's not enough alone to create a character separately. Olimar has no personality either, so it's not like it's a special situation. For some reason, some voices aren't used for various characters. There's no distinctive reason either, as you can't say "they're too cute" with Isabelle, when we have other cute characters like various Pokemon who have full voices and damage(Jigglypuff and Pichu are notable for it). Even if we got the voices, they would mean nothing alone.
  • What's unfortunate is that we probably won't get a new slot for Pikmin & Alph. We have more new distinct Pikmin coming up(unlike Purple Pikmin who is admittedly very similar to Rock Pikmin in applications. Also, programming new A.I. is not easy, so it's not just animations like Daisy, the only real similar case that Pikmin & Alph could have been, respectively, if it was just "changing some minor animations".
• Daisy is not hard to fix up. Remove the Toads(save maybe the Neutral B move), change the vegetables to turnips, and change the turnips ability to match the odd patch. Also, Neutral B can use one of the other customs from 4. Easy.

I'm aware some are more closer to fact.

On another note, it sucks we have no Target Test. I don't mean having 80+ unique ones, but they could've done something. Getting Spirits fast by redoing the Angry Birds one could've been fun too(or getting that cool bonus stuff you can use during the Spirit Board. As well as general coins, so it's a very fast and cheap mini-game that gives you oodles of stuff while not being outright tedious. You get a high score and more). It's less tedious than the fairly long Classic Mode, or the mediocre Credits Shooting(that the controls are... not very fun to use. You need to button mash to do well, which makes it overall tedious. Nice side is not doing 80+ of a mode, but still).

 

[Aligo]

Okay, last night I mentioned I didn't like Pythra's inclusion. Guess I oughta explain why.

My main gripe with it is that it feels like it undermines the whole driver/blade dynamic that was such a big part of XC2. Like, yeah, Rex is there and all, but he only shows up for one taunt, one victory animation, and the Final Smashes. Better that nothing, I guess, but it still doesn't feel like Rex is working alongside Pyra and Mythra as much as he should. Not to undermine the Aegis on their own, but given how much focus was given to the trio's bond in XC2, it feels like something's missing from their inclusion here.

Sakurai stated that it'd be difficult to have Rex fight onscreen alongside Pyra and Mythra, which I guess is a fair point, but there's an issue I see there too. I feel like it'd be doable in some capacity if the Aegis' models didn't have so many damn voxels. Like, look at Shulk, Pyra, and fellow DLC fighter Sephiroth side by side.

First off, Shulk looks ugly - that is true. My main gripe, though, is... well, look at Pyra compared to the other two. She has a radically different art-style - Of course, this isn't a bad thing on its own, but the way her design was handled seems to give her a lot more voxels to work with than the others, which would naturally put some strain on the CPU. If Rex and the Aegis' models were this high-def AND they fought alongside each other, I'd understand if the game had more trouble running them all than it would running an 8-player IC match. Though that begs the question; Why are the models so crazily more HQ than the majority of Ultimate's cast?

I feel like if they had optimized the models for Rex and the Aegis, I feel like it would be at least possible for them to show up alongside Rex for certain attacks, which would feel much more "right" than just having the Aegis playable and Rex showing up for a small handful of animations.

That's my problem with Pythra; I feel like a major part of XC2's core themes and gameplay feel were ignored with how downplayed the bond between the protag trio is, and even as someone who's never played the Xenoblade series and only obtained information on their bond as an observer, that is a pretty noticable problem. I don't want an affinity system mechanic or something dumb like that; I just kinda want the trio working together with just as much cohesion and purpose than what we got.

If you are wondering why the pythra models in smash have so many boxes in contrast to many other fighters, it is because they use downscaled versions of the XC2 models with altered proportions. Min min also uses game textures/models.

Also, Mythra does fight solo in torna the golden country, so there is precedent for a singular fighter. Finally pythra both have more relevance to the overarching story of xenoblade and are more popular among the fanbase than rex.

 

[FazDude]

If you are wondering why the pythra models in smash have so many boxes in contrast to many other fighters, it is because they use downscaled versions of the XC2 models with altered proportions. Min min also uses game textures/models. Also, Mythra does fight solo in torna the golden country, so there is precedent for a singular fighter.

Huh, didn't know this stuff. Doesn't really change my mind about the models, but thanks for the info.

Finally pythra both have more relevance to the overarching story of xenoblade and are more popular among the fanbase than rex.

Yeah, this is true - They do appear more important story-wise and are very popular characters, so I guess I understand their inclusion from that perspective. I just wish that the driver/blade relationship was a little more pronounced, 'tis all.

 

[fogbadge]

Also, Mythra does fight solo in torna the golden country, so there is precedent for a singular fighter.

she's not really fighting solo she's part of a trio. more to the point she's part of a duo here so that's a moot point

Yeah, this is true - They do appear more important story-wise and are very popular characters, so I guess I understand their inclusion from that perspective. I just wish that the driver/blade relationship was a little more pronounced, 'tis all.

so's aerith but we still got cloud

 

[Ze Diglett]

she's not really fighting solo she's part of a trio. more to the point she's part of a duo here so that's a moot point

Did you play Torna? Something tells me you didn't.

 

[fogbadge]

Did you play Torna? Something tells me you didn't.

More than you clearly

 

[Opossum]

Ironically, Boshi is the only plausible Yoshi echo, despite not being a character in the Yoshi franchise. But cross-series Echoes work just as well as Cross-series clones, so that means little.

This is Birdo erasure. She works perfectly well as a Chrom-styled Yoshi echo, wherein only a single special would need to be swapped out (in this case, a reskinned Blunderbuss from K. Rool with the animation instead being her shooting an egg/sucking foes into her snout before shooting them out). And then you'd just need to make an incredibly minor animation change for Yoshi's grab making it a suction vortex effect instead of a tongue.

That's all that would need to change. You could also give her a more fitting Final Smash like they did for Chrom.

Everything else Yoshi does is perfectly reasonable to have Birdo do. She's encased herself in her egg before, so side special is covered. She's thrown her eggs before, so the up special is covered. Damn near every Mario character ever can ground pound, so down special is covered. She's been shown to be able to jump incredibly high, so Yoshi's flutter jump can be easily justified. All of Yoshi's normals are perfectly fine for her to do because they share damn near identical body shapes and sizes.

She'd be among the more high effort echo fighters, a la Chrom or Ken, but Birdo 100% falls in line with the established echo fighter guidelines.

 

[fogbadge]

This is Birdo erasure. She works perfectly well as a Chrom-styled Yoshi echo, wherein only a single special would need to be swapped out (in this case, a reskinned Blunderbuss from K. Rool with the animation instead being her shooting an egg/sucking foes into her snout before shooting them out). And then you'd just need to make an incredibly minor animation change for Yoshi's grab making it a suction vortex effect instead of a tongue.

That's all that would need to change. You could also give her a more fitting Final Smash like they did for Chrom.

Everything else Yoshi does is perfectly reasonable to have Birdo do. She's encased herself in her egg before, so side special is covered. She's thrown her eggs before, so the up special is covered. Damn near every Mario character ever can ground pound, so down special is covered. She's been shown to be able to jump incredibly high, so Yoshi's flutter jump can be easily justified. All of Yoshi's normals are perfectly fine for her to do because they share damn near identical body shapes and sizes.

She'd be among the more high effort echo fighters, a la Chrom or Ken, but Birdo 100% falls in line with the established echo fighter guidelines.

Did they change Yoshis grab? I never noticed

 

[Opossum]

Did they change Yoshis grab? I never noticed

I think you misread that sentence. I'm saying that changing that animation would be a very trivial thing (ie, replacing the tongue with a suction effect).

 

[fogbadge]

I think you misread that sentence. I'm saying that changing that animation would be a very trivial thing (ie, replacing the tongue with a suction effect).

Yes but it’s also possible that they changed his grab and I hadn’t noticed. Gotta check these things

 

[Opossum]

Yes but it’s also possible that they changed his grab and I hadn’t noticed. Gotta check these things

Ahhh okay, gotcha.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yoshi and Birdo are not remotely the same bodyshape, so no. Similar doesn’t cut it. She’s pretty much in Pichu territory, where they can share some animations, but cannot be an Echo.

This is not a Chrom situation in the slightest. Hell, Lucina only worked because they modified her proportions to be a costume before they had the idea of making her a clone. If it weren’t for that, she couldn’t become an Echo.

Like I said, Boshi is it. Birdo is a great choice for something along the Pythra style though(being the only new normal clone in Ultimate, as Isabelle is a semi-clone).

And yes, I compared the models. They aren't the same actual proportions(but similar). I couldn't type well on mobile, but there's no situation where they need to suddenly reproportion a character just to force an Echo when a semi-clone or clone works. That's Birdo's specific case. It has nothing to do with "oh, the few moves she can't do is easy to retool over", because that's a different situation. She isn't Dixie either.

To further explain Lucina, she's a very unique case. She had a different proportion set from Marth, so her model was modified to become a quick costume for him as a fun alt. Down the line, now that she was re-proportioned, she could become an easy clone in the same game. Her Echo status also reflects this, as only because she was already remade first was she easy to be newly labeled a specific thing.

On another note, Erasure is a purely loaded term and really needs to go away. Nobody is erasing anything and you know it. It's almost like they don't believe in that particular situation and thus have no reason to bring it up. It's also highly accusatory and weakens an argument by making it sound like something that's not there. Let's not use that, please. It doesn't actually adhere to any good argument point.

 

[Opossum]

Yoshi and Birdo are not remotely the same bodyshape, so no. Similar doesn’t cut it. She’s pretty much in Pichu territory, where they can share some animations, but cannot be an Echo.

This is not a Chrom situation in the slightest. Hell, Lucina only worked because they modified her proportions to be a costume before they had the idea of making her a clone. If it weren’t for that, she couldn’t become an Echo.

Like I said, Boshi is it. Birdo is a great choice for something along the Pythra style though(being the only new normal clone in Ultimate, as Isabelle is a semi-clone).

This is an absolutely ridiculous and reductionist take lmao.

They're both chunky, bipedal dinosaurs that are the same height and have the same limb lengths. This isn't an Isabelle/Villager or Pikachu/Pichu thing like you're trying to paint it as, no matter how much you try.

 

[Laniv]

This is Birdo erasure. She works perfectly well as a Chrom-styled Yoshi echo, wherein only a single special would need to be swapped out (in this case, a reskinned Blunderbuss from K. Rool with the animation instead being her shooting an egg/sucking foes into her snout before shooting them out). And then you'd just need to make an incredibly minor animation change for Yoshi's grab making it a suction vortex effect instead of a tongue.

That's all that would need to change. You could also give her a more fitting Final Smash like they did for Chrom.

Everything else Yoshi does is perfectly reasonable to have Birdo do. She's encased herself in her egg before, so side special is covered. She's thrown her eggs before, so the up special is covered. Damn near every Mario character ever can ground pound, so down special is covered. She's been shown to be able to jump incredibly high, so Yoshi's flutter jump can be easily justified. All of Yoshi's normals are perfectly fine for her to do because they share damn near identical body shapes and sizes.

She'd be among the more high effort echo fighters, a la Chrom or Ken, but Birdo 100% falls in line with the established echo fighter guidelines.

It's funny that if Birdo did become a Yoshi echo, she'd be the first echo to be older than the character they're cloned from.

So what would her Final Smash be?

 

[Perkilator]

It's funny that if Birdo did become a Yoshi echo, she'd be the first echo to be older than the character they're cloned from.

So what would her Final Smash be?

Probably a reference to the final battle of Super Mario Bros. 2

 

[fogbadge]

It's funny that if Birdo did become a Yoshi echo, she'd be the first echo to be older than the character they're cloned from.

So what would her Final Smash be?

The goat from Paper Mario

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I compared the proportions. Definitely not the same(their arm length is fairly different and their core bodyshape is just a tad different). So no, 100% can't think of her as an Echo with that in mind.

Still a Pichu situation where they're clearly similar, yet distinct. Albeit, slightly more similar than Pichu is to Pikachu, but not almost the same enough.

Something notable is that she actually started using different proportions in later games, having her be closer to a somewhat different model than it used to be. I compared the various Switch models, and the last time Yoshi and Birdo shared the same bodyshape was in the Wii/DS era. She'd have to be actually re-proportioned first, which doesn't really happen for characters(outside of costumes). ...And it's kind of obvious she was never going to be a Yoshi costume anyway, so she can't be a Lucina situation that luckily comes by.

 

[Ze Diglett]

More than you clearly

Apparently not, if you're so certain. Mythra's very much not in a "trio" in Torna, she's barely even a duo with Addam. Even then, she exhibits a clear willingness and ability to fight on her own in that game.
Unless you're talking about battles having three characters on the field at once, which like, okay? That's just how the Xenoblade battle system works. By that logic, Terry should always be on a team with two other people and the FE fighters should all be accompanied by an entourage of horsemen and archers and the like.

 

[Perkilator]

Apparently not, if you're so certain. Mythra's very much not in a "trio" in Torna, she's barely even a duo with Addam. Even then, she exhibits a clear willingness and ability to fight on her own in that game.
Unless you're talking about battles having three characters on the field at once, which like, okay? That's just how the Xenoblade battle system works. By that logic, Terry should always be on a team with two other people and the FE fighters should all be accompanied by an entourage of horsemen and archers and the like.

That being said I do wish Iori and Nakoruru could’ve been in Terry’s Challenger Pack even if they’re not directly a team.

 

[fogbadge]

Apparently not, if you're so certain. Mythra's very much not in a "trio" in Torna, she's barely even a duo with Addam. Even then, she exhibits a clear willingness and ability to fight on her own in that game.
Unless you're talking about battles having three characters on the field at once, which like, okay? That's just how the Xenoblade battle system works. By that logic, Terry should always be on a team with two other people and the FE fighters should all be accompanied by an entourage of horsemen and archers and the like.

the entire system in torna is built around switching between characters. you can't pretend how they are in smash is reflective is that. and a characters willingness to fight is also meaningless for smash, see lucas.

 

[Aligo]

the entire system in torna is built around switching between characters. you can't pretend how they are in smash is reflective is that. and a characters willingness to fight is also meaningless for smash, see lucas.

They quite literally have a switching move, that changes between two forms.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

This is extremely petty but I was quietly grateful for Pyra/Mythra getting in over Rex because having to repeatedly look at the latter's stupid pants from XC2 would have really irritated me.

 

[Aligo]

This is extremely petty but I was quietly grateful for Pyra/Mythra getting in over Rex because having to repeatedly look at the latter's stupid pants from XC2 would have really irritated me.

Imagine never changing out of your work clothes. Obviously there is the much cooler outfit, but that is more spoilery.

I guess my unpopular opinion is that it is a good thing to cut things out of canon if they are poorly done and interfere with continuing the series going forward. There is no point letting a series die just because one questionable game wrote the plot into a corner. Same goes for other media too.

Obviously reboot hell, like what has happened to modern comics, is to be avoided.

 

[fogbadge]

They quite literally have a switching move, that changes between two forms.

You’re not serious arguing that being able to switch between them is a key component of the battle system? You don’t switch between them taking charge of battle you switch between them supporting the main character. That’s not what they’re doing in smash it is not reflective of their game

This is extremely petty but I was quietly grateful for Pyra/Mythra getting in over Rex because having to repeatedly look at the latter's stupid pants from XC2 would have really irritated me.

And the ridiculous outfits of everyone else is fine?

 

[Jaro235]

I don’t know if this is unpopular, but Smash Bros can be just as enjoyable as a party game as it is a fighter. I was battling in an arena where the host switched from one-on-one battles to free-for-alls and the sheer chaos makes these kinds of battles a blast. It made me forget about the competitive nature of one-on-ones and it reminded me of why I loved Smash when I first played it. I like to think of Smash of having my favorite Nintendo characters destroy scary or edgy characters rather than thinking about all the technical terms for the combat. That is the biggest appeal for Smash for me.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I don’t know if this is unpopular, but Smash Bros can be just as enjoyable as a party game as it is a fighter. I was battling in an arena where the host switched from one-on-one battles to free-for-alls and the sheer chaos makes these kinds of battles a blast. It made me forget about the competitive nature of one-on-ones and it reminded me of why I loved Smash when I first played it. I like to think of Smash of having my favorite Nintendo characters destroy scary or edgy characters rather than thinking about all the technical terms for the combat. That is the biggest appeal for Smash for me.

Somewhat related to that, I have a deep fundamental respect that competitive Smash players have both built an active esport out of the series and have dug deeply into the mechanics to really build a meta out of it. Both speak to the dedication and discipline that such players have with the franchise, and that there's an active FGC scene (in spite of Nintendo's... combative relationship with it) is worthy of kudos. That being said...

...I find competitive Smash Bros pretty boring to watch. This is not even a specific thing about SSB, most competitions with traditional fighters don't really excite me that much. If I'm watching a round of Smash, give me items, give me 3 or more fighters, give me wacky stages, give me chaos. I'm glad that balanced fights can occur and there is something to be said for being the better player in a fair match, but a one on one fight with no frills has virtually no appeal to me as a viewer.

 

[Aligo]

Somewhat related to that, I have a deep fundamental respect that competitive Smash players have both built an active esport out of the series and have dug deeply into the mechanics to really build a meta out of it. Both speak to the dedication and discipline that such players have with the franchise, and that there's an active FGC scene (in spite of Nintendo's... combative relationship with it) is worthy of kudos. That being said...

...I find competitive Smash Bros pretty boring to watch. This is not even a specific thing about SSB, most competitions with traditional fighters don't really excite me that much. If I'm watching a round of Smash, give me items, give me 3 or more fighters, give me wacky stages, give me chaos. I'm glad that straight fights can occur and there is something to be said for being the better player in a fair match, but a one on one fight with no frills has virtually no appeal to me as a viewer.

Well I guess since it is an 'esport' it is like any other stuff, where you need to be a fan to truly enjoy the competitive angle. That is why the casual and single player aspects are very important, even in games intended for competitive play.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Well I guess since it is an 'esport' it is like any other stuff, where you need to be a fan to truly enjoy the competitive angle. That is why the casual and single player aspects are very important, even in games intended for competitive play.

I think it speaks to Smash's strength as a series that it can be enjoyed (both in watching and playing) competitively or as a party game. I would never want the former compromised even though my personal preference is towards the latter.

 

[Perkilator]

To be honest, I wouldn’t mind if Smash Ultimate had another year of development time just so it doesn’t feel…somewhat rushed, for a lack of a better term.

 

[UserKev]

Like Bowser, Ganondorf, Mac and K. Rool, I feel DK also deserve "armor" that'd really benefit his Forward B.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Like Bowser, Ganondorf, Mac and K. Rool, I feel DK also deserve "armor" that'd really benefit his Forward B.

Doesn't he already have armor on that move?

 

[UserKev]

Doesn't he already have armor on that move?

If he does, it left a dissatisfying impression on me. I remember it being unreliable last I used that move. That's not even the only move that needs armor. DK's Natural B should have armor due to how high risky it is. Armor could really benefit its end lag.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

If he does, it left a dissatisfying impression on me. I remember it being unreliable last I used that move. That's not even the only move that needs armor. DK's Natural B should have armor due to how high risky it is. Armor could really benefit its end lag.

Giant Punch also has armor.

As does Spinning Kong.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Smash would profit to aim towards the competitive scene fully, keep it's basic formula more or less the same as Ultimate, which was made with the competitive scene in mind more than other Smash games (Melee was unintentional after all). This would be a serious blow to the "competiton" of platform fighters who try to aim to achieve just this.

The casuals will go bonkers with items and Metal Bunny Lightning Stamina Mode anyway. Doesn't make sense to balance the game with them in mind, unless you add joke characters specifically. I'd think a character like Waluigi would be a good fit for this purpose.

 

[Diddy Kong]

****e lol lol

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

This would be a serious blow to the "competiton" of platform fighters who try to aim to achieve just this.

That would not be a good thing.