Bandana Waddle Dee could probably work if you had him switch between a Spear and a Parasol for his moveset (here's my take on this concept).
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Unpopular Smash Opinions (BE CIVIL)
- Thread starter Perkilator
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Lenidem
Smash Lord
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I disagree. That would mean no Bowser, no Peach, no Zelda, no Diddy Kong... Street Fighter can do that kind of stuff because it's not a cross-over, but Smash Bros. is.
I may not see clones as too big of a deal now (and in fact, I actually welcome more Echoes), but I'll still stand by what I said: Smash4 did a HORRIBLE job of handling its roster (at least in single-player), and as a result, its clone characters only ended up feeling like unnecessary bloat.
Not to mention representation for SEVERAL first-party IPs, including some that are still very much relevant today (Wario, Animal Crossing, Splatoon, Pikmin, Xenoblade...... and yes, even Fire Emblem, which couldn't NOT have Marth).
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crazybenjamin
Smash Journeyman
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Again, not every point of view is created equal, and if people have a problem with Daisy's "illusion" being broken, then defending the idea of her being a costume goes against this reasoning. This is the main point I'm trying to get across: "Daisy's current moveset doesn't fit her character, but it would be OK for her to have the exact same taunts and victory animations as Peach" is inherently contradictory, no matter how you slice it.
But that's the thing, what would you actually achieve with such a miniscule amount of saved dev time? Coding the AI for an AT isn't exactly a trivial task, if Dark Samus reverted to being an AT she'd be more likely to be cut from playable status outright, rather than pulling double duty as both a costume and an AT. If people instead advocated for the characters to be cut outright, I would still kick up a fuss, but at least they would actually be making more of an attempt to commit to the "free up dev time for other things" angle. In addition, they wouldn't be outright contradicting the "Daisy being a clone breaks the illusion of the character" argument.
Another point: if people simply believe that the dev time that went to characters like Daisy should have gone elsewhere in the first place, then it wasn't really about "clones bad" in the first place, yet I still run into people with a blanket "clones bad" mentality, which fails to take into account factors such as how not every clone is inherently "disrespectful" like Daisy or Dark Samus (or Ganondorf) are.
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Lenidem
Smash Lord
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Even if you were right about this alleged nonsense, that's not how politeness works. You're not supposed to be polite only with people whose opinion you agree with... But clearly, you're not even trying to understand.
Yeah, because those damned "people" just want the roster to be downsized for no reason at all... Also, I don't see why a Dark Samus AT would mean no Dark Samus alt: it's just a skin, they're quickly done.
But I give up.
Guys, let's chill down with the arguing.
...
Anyways, I think Sakura Shinguji would be a cool character to represent one of SEGA's more obscure series.
...
Anyways, I think Sakura Shinguji would be a cool character to represent one of SEGA's more obscure series.
Lenidem
Smash Lord
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Oh, by the way.
Do you hate Daisy so much?
Yes
Lenidem
Smash Lord
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May I ask why?
not really sure. she just irritates me
Lenidem
Smash Lord
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Fair enough. That happens.
it certainly does
chocolatejr9
Smash Hero
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Well, I guess if we're hating on characters atm...
Waluigi doesn't deserve to be in Smash. He's just a side character in the Mario spinoffs, so it's only fitting he remain as the Smash equivalent of that.
Waluigi doesn't deserve to be in Smash. He's just a side character in the Mario spinoffs, so it's only fitting he remain as the Smash equivalent of that.
crazybenjamin
Smash Journeyman
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Something I forgot to ask you: if you would actually welcome more Echoes, why did you say before that "there really was little if any reason not to just make them an alternate costume?"
It's not about disagreement, it's about outright double standards. Are you telling me that you're perfectly willing to be polite with outright hypocrites?
Considering the justifications that they use, why should I believe otherwise?
Do you believe that assist trophies deconfirm? If so, then it's the same reason as that. If not, then at least you're consistent on that front
Oddball
Smash Lord
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It says "Be civil" right there in the topic title.
And there are a LOT of people in this world you're going to disagree with. There's no reason to go around starting trouble when you don't have to.
I was talking about the Smash4 clones, and as I already stated, bloat WAS an issue in Smash4 so far as I'm concerned.
crazybenjamin
Smash Journeyman
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Again, there's a difference between merely disagreeing and being a hypocrite about it. I call out these double standards because these kinds of misconceptions have a tendency to get out of control. And going back to a previous point that I made: the reason I made my "there's no excuse to complain about bloat" argument that people considered to be uncivil in the first place is because that entire argument hinged on an aspect that no longer exists in Ultimate. Do you have any suggestions as to a better way that I could have communicated that point, and is there a way for me to call out these aforementioned double standards while being less forceful about it?
You weren't exactly clear about that before, your wording of "The thing that people dislike about clones" implied that it's the reason why people complain about clones in the present day, and as I mentioned before Ultimate has already removed that excuse.
We need more competitively legal stages.
In fact, we did. We got a good handful of them, either due to them coming from the 3DS or with the introduction of hazards on/off. But some ***** ass complainers ruined everything and had to make everything literally the exact same as it was last game. "Oh, but Unova Stadium is so similar to Kalos!" How? How is it? It's not even the same stage structure. Even with DLC we can't enjoy new stages. Northern Cave being "too distracting" is so stupid. Why are you looking at the background then? It's not gonna suddenly change. Just play the game.
I want a long talk in a private room with whichever boogeyman gets to suddenly dictate the law on what stages are viable.
In fact, we did. We got a good handful of them, either due to them coming from the 3DS or with the introduction of hazards on/off. But some ***** ass complainers ruined everything and had to make everything literally the exact same as it was last game. "Oh, but Unova Stadium is so similar to Kalos!" How? How is it? It's not even the same stage structure. Even with DLC we can't enjoy new stages. Northern Cave being "too distracting" is so stupid. Why are you looking at the background then? It's not gonna suddenly change. Just play the game.
I want a long talk in a private room with whichever boogeyman gets to suddenly dictate the law on what stages are viable.
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Brawl should've gotten a definitive edition to fix a lot of the problems of the original release (and maybe add Mewtwo, Roy and WFT as characters)
While I'm happy with the roster as is, Euden from Dragalia Lost would've been cool in Smash (be as it a Spirit or a fighter)
chocolatejr9
Smash Hero
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You. I like you. Keep talking.
I think Ultiumate should've gotten a few more modes throughout its life cycle.
i would have thought that would be a popular one
I would rather have a new Adventure mode similar to Melee's over another Story mode with fancy cutscenes or the chance to hear non-bri'ish Zelda.
Like ****, I wanna beat up Mechon and Territorial Rotbart on Bionis' leg, or go through the Minecraft world, or clear an actual Castlevania stage with all different kinds of characters. To be fair, World of Light kinda did that last part except not really.
Like ****, I wanna beat up Mechon and Territorial Rotbart on Bionis' leg, or go through the Minecraft world, or clear an actual Castlevania stage with all different kinds of characters. To be fair, World of Light kinda did that last part except not really.
what do you mean by that?
BOTW Zelda
was she meant to have a British accent?
sounds like one to me, or something very posh
fair enough
KingofPhantoms
The Spook Factor
Well...I don't normally post here anymore, but here's what might be a hot take.
Hero is probably the worst newcomer addition in the series, not by virtue of anything concerning Dragon Quest itself, mind you. I'd like to make it clear that I have absolutely nothing against the series itself and would like to try some of the games in the franchise myself some day.
But the sheer RNG-based moveset Hero has gives them way too many options and makes playing against the character more of a chore than anything else, both in casual or competitive play alike, and regardless of whether or not the opponent is on the winning or losing side. It's no fun fighting a character who could easily screw you over based on random chance, nor is having to pay close attention to Hero's spell menu to know exactly what you need to do to counter or dodge one of their many powerful offense spells at just the right time. That his smash attacks can land critical hits that can K.O. on the spot doesn't help.
Granted, Mr. Game & Watch also has a lethal attack in an RNG-based move known as Judgement, but at least that's limited to one, very close-ranged move with a slight delay. Cautious players can generally work around that. You have a lot of other possibilities to worry about when fighting Hero. I'm not even calling the Hero OP, I don't think any character in Ultimate is truly OP, much less Hero. The RNG of his spells and critical hits just takes the fun out of fighting the character.
Hero is probably the worst newcomer addition in the series, not by virtue of anything concerning Dragon Quest itself, mind you. I'd like to make it clear that I have absolutely nothing against the series itself and would like to try some of the games in the franchise myself some day.
But the sheer RNG-based moveset Hero has gives them way too many options and makes playing against the character more of a chore than anything else, both in casual or competitive play alike, and regardless of whether or not the opponent is on the winning or losing side. It's no fun fighting a character who could easily screw you over based on random chance, nor is having to pay close attention to Hero's spell menu to know exactly what you need to do to counter or dodge one of their many powerful offense spells at just the right time. That his smash attacks can land critical hits that can K.O. on the spot doesn't help.
Granted, Mr. Game & Watch also has a lethal attack in an RNG-based move known as Judgement, but at least that's limited to one, very close-ranged move with a slight delay. Cautious players can generally work around that. You have a lot of other possibilities to worry about when fighting Hero. I'm not even calling the Hero OP, I don't think any character in Ultimate is truly OP, much less Hero. The RNG of his spells and critical hits just takes the fun out of fighting the character.
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I mean, I wouldn't mind something like Subspace but with few if any cutscenes (or only real-time cutscenes like in Melee). My main beef with Melee's Adventure is that it's too short, whereas Subspace gave you a large amount of stages, sprawled out across a map that isn't intended to be cleared in a single sitting (in fact, it's pretty comparable to the full-length platformer titles from the SNES era onward). And sure, at the time, I thought Melee's Adventure was amazing, but going back to anything like it (or Smash Run) after Brawl just feels like a step backwards. Still, after Smash WiiU and Ultimate, Melee Adventure (or Smash Run) is at least preferable to having no platforming mode at all.
Laniv
Smash Champion
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- Apr 20, 2014
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- 2,290
I'd prefer Paula as a Ness echo rather than Ninten.
Incineroar was not the ideal choice for a Gen VII Pokemon (that honor goes to Buzzwole or Pheromosa), but it was a much better choice than Decidueye could've ever been. I'd rather keep it around than Greninja.
Speaking as someone who doesn't care for Geno that much, his disconfirmation was far and away the most brutal of any requested character.
Incineroar was not the ideal choice for a Gen VII Pokemon (that honor goes to Buzzwole or Pheromosa), but it was a much better choice than Decidueye could've ever been. I'd rather keep it around than Greninja.
Speaking as someone who doesn't care for Geno that much, his disconfirmation was far and away the most brutal of any requested character.
Nah man, I think Shadow (or Isaac) got it the worst considering he was deconfirmed, IIRC, in the last Direct. People were hyping them up the entire speculation season because they weren't even revealed up until that point. And everyone banked on a Shadow echo.
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Mamboo07
Smash Hero
The three of them were in a fake leak which didn't become real cause Smash fans believe in fake rumours.
Lenidem
Smash Lord
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What about Skull Kid? After showing the new Moon assist and keeping Young Link's final smash secret all along, he was deconfirmed... on the website, after the last Direct.
StrangeKitten
Smash Lord
Sorta agree with both of these. While I don't like Buzzwole or Pheromosa very much and would rather have Decidueye over either of them, I think Incineroar was the better choice over Decidueye. For one, Decidueye got into Pokken, so it's cool that another Pokemon from gen 7 got the nod for Smash. For another, Decidueye would have been an archer who can fly... that's basically Pit, though could have some overlap with the other archers (the Links and to a lesser extent, Byleth) as well. I'm sure they could have done plenty to differentiate Decidueye, mind you, but when I think about that in comparison to a grappling wrestler, I can't help but feel that Incineroar is more unique by a pretty wide margin. And might be worth mentioning here: I like Decidueye a lot, so I'm not coming from a place of any dislike towards it.
As for Geno, I definitely think an argument can be made that his disconfirmation was indeed the most brutal. Isaac, Shadow, and Skull Kid were definitely rough ones, but at least it only took around... 3 months? between when people were getting hyped for them and when they were disconfirmed. Geno took two years and change.
For the uninitiated, it's worth noting Geno had kind of a lot going for him. You can say us Geno fans hyped ourselves up too much and I wouldn't entirely disagree, but try looking at it from our perspective:
- Ridley, K Rool, and Banjo all make it in. Three characters who had lost almost all relevance, but made it because of fan demand. There's a sizable fan demand for Geno, enough that he should be pretty likely to be next!
- Sakurai's past mention of how he likes Geno and wanted to make him a character in Brawl. So there's fan demand and Sakurai likes him too.
- The Smash 4 Mii costume. Clearly an acknowledgment of his popularity among fans post-ballot. K Rool and Inkling had Mii costumes in Smash 4 (and I think also Chrom and Isabelle had em but I'm not certain), presumably because they were popular among fans. And they made it in as playable for Ultimate!
- Viridi mentions Megasmilax in Piranha Plant's Palutena's Guidance. That's a type of Piranha Plant unique to Super Mario RPG, so they probably would have had to negotiate with Square-Enix to put it in there. It's especially eyebrow-raising when you take into account there being so many types of Piranha Plant that there are more than enough for the gag of Viridi listing off a ton of them without including Megasmilax.
- There was a copyright take down of uploads of Beware the Forest's Mushrooms and Fight Against an Armed Boss. While of course it could mean nothing (which it eventually did), it's kinda suspicious when it's just those two.
- Hero doesn't include Geno's Mii costume with his Challenger Pack.
- Min Min gets in. It was up in the air whether Geno's spirit might disconfirm him, but now we know spirits don't disconfirm! At least, the ones from base game don't.
But, the real kicker in all of this? A lot of us were saying we'd be happy with a deluxe Mii costume, like what Sans and Cuphead got. Presumably wouldn't be too much work to fix Geno's horrible Mii costume from Smash 4, and he could even do the music track thing two did, Instead, we got the same hideous costume just polished up a tiny bit, and Beware the Forest's Mushrooms played during the costume showcase but didn't actually get added to Ultimate.