Q&A Unleashing a 2-D Horror - A Game and Watch Thread

[Oracle]

i think dk is sort of bad for gnw but not really that bad i was just too tired lol

 

[Juushichi]

So something like 6-4 or slightly disadvantage?

I could see that. It looks kinda hard to uproot him, but once we do it seems kinda free.

 

[leelue]

GW is the best character I have against Eli's DK, by far.

 

[Yung Mei]

i would go with even, since its one of those matchups where if either character has momentum, gg

 

[Nemiak temp]

There's a few pretty good DKs around my area that I play with every week and I'd argue this is a pretty even matchup. Last time I played Eli I got smacked across the globe but I've improved a lot since then and no longer think it was the fault of a bad matchup. I was just bad lol. But I would totally agree with the momentum thing, once G dubZ gets going he can combo/gimp DK all over the place but at the same time he's a piece of paper and DK is an angry monkey so...

 

[Nausicaa]

Found out bair at mid percents combos into footstool > dair > usmash really well.

B-air combos into everything.
Jiggs dies to it too.
DK shouldn't be able to touch G&W.
Because B-air. (and other stuff)

Up-B > Falling B-air > repeat.
It's all you ever need.
With maybe Falling Bacon if the Turtle is hungry.

 

[Dakpo]

i think dk is sort of bad for gnw but not really that bad i was just too tired lol

DK IS SUPER FREE
It is easily our 6-4
Oracle didnt even try :'/

 

[Planet Piss]

DK IS SUPER FREE
It is easily our 6-4
Oracle didnt even try :'/

DK main here, this is accurate

Spamming the b button destroys DK's neutral game to the point where you have to do really awkward platform jumping in order to not get hit. If you're aiming the breakfast foods properly then DK's only defense is to go to a stage where the platforms can protect him, but the bacon still controls the whole match. DK has to run away constantly and hope that he can find an opening in the shroud of hitboxes which, due to KB stacking, can result in 80-90% combos if not death after one connects.

Basically, throw a bunch of food around and DK can't get grabs pretty much ever. He can bair you out of skillet and hit confirm into a grab, but if he ever goes into his shield (which is an optimal place for him in most MUs) then he's royally ****ed. If he grabs you out of skillet he's going to get hit by the bacon which generally always goes into a combo. Yeah, he can kill/edgegaurd GAW very well but the combos are plentiful with the paper man and you should be controlling the stage the entire time.

 

[Dakpo]

That, ladies and gentlemen, is how you play the match-up.

 

[Metmetm3t]

That's about how it goes for me. Though my local DK's aren't good anyway.

 

[Yung Mei]

ill check that **** with Eggz this weekend and see what he says

ill be going for sure this time, any matchups anyone wants me to record? 3 gnw's are attending (myself, friend and Meta),so we're bound to get plenty of footage

 

[Nausicaa]

It's nearly impossible for GW to grab himself in dittos...
Let alone a big furry monkey.

Or you know, that whole B-air thing is good. B-air battles, Turtle > Monkey

 

[Yung Mei]

bacon (pan hit) can lead to bacon on some chars

 

[Juushichi]

It also can depending on what it does when it hits, Calvo. If they DI down and are forced to tech no, but it seems more to have to do with the bacon tradjectory+% than character dependency.

also im bad

 

[Metmetm3t]

(╥﹏╥)
Mario is a tough matchup, but I think we win it. Standing jab should beat his nair, and when you guys are close it's either more jabs or Up-B because otherwise you're just going to eat his DSmash.

 

[Juushichi]

I need to channel more Dakpo and put out enough bacon that I don't have to worry about approaches.

I felt like my jab/jab cancels weren't on point at this tournament, so I gotta go back in the lab and work on that. Zinoto plays against Ally all of the time so he's pretty cognizant of jab pressure and mixups (you know, Ike and Falcon and all), but I will try to be mindful of it in the future.

 

[QraQ]

I need to channel more Dakpo and put out enough bacon that I don't have to worry about approaches.

I felt like my jab/jab cancels weren't on point at this tournament, so I gotta go back in the lab and work on that. Zinoto plays against Ally all of the time so he's pretty cognizant of jab pressure and mixups (you know, Ike and Falcon and all), but I will try to be mindful of it in the future.

More Skillex

 

[Yung Mei]

eggz said "dk raaapes" and "only noobs use the boards lool"

also, gc today, match requests gogogogogogogo

 

[dettadeus]

g&w vs the world

 

[arata18]

DK main here, this is accurate

Spamming the b button destroys DK's neutral game to the point where you have to do really awkward platform jumping in order to not get hit. If you're aiming the breakfast foods properly then DK's only defense is to go to a stage where the platforms can protect him, but the bacon still controls the whole match. DK has to run away constantly and hope that he can find an opening in the shroud of hitboxes which, due to KB stacking, can result in 80-90% combos if not death after one connects.

Basically, throw a bunch of food around and DK can't get grabs pretty much ever. He can bair you out of skillet and hit confirm into a grab, but if he ever goes into his shield (which is an optimal place for him in most MUs) then he's royally ****ed. If he grabs you out of skillet he's going to get hit by the bacon which generally always goes into a combo. Yeah, he can kill/edgegaurd GAW very well but the combos are plentiful with the paper man and you should be controlling the stage the entire time.

Very well said sir I do appreciate the othe perspective from your end that helps in the match up quite a bit. Still a little nooby over here I play dk occasionally and I understand how hard it can be to get around shrouds of hitboxes and spacing. Especially considering that DK has not a single projectile... Just those angry monkey arms and feet. I still say that it can be an even match although it may be slightly in G&W's favor just cause of the bacon shenanigans. DK can kill G&W at ridiculousely low percents for sure. You just have to be able to hit the little guy first.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Fighting DK optimally is very boring with GnW, the reach on his tilts and the percents we die at makes the MU very volatile (like against Luigi)

But once you get a good confirm...

 

[Yung Mei]

its nearly 1 am, im tired and just got back from GC

played against Ciz, Meta, Bladewise, Apples, and a few other people

random matchup discussion

Diddy Kong - If you stay on top of him with bacons (platform pressure works wonders too), matchup is mostly in our favor. He hits hella hard though, watch out for bananas

Wario - Holy ****ing ****, Apples was so good with wario. IMO, its hella in Wario's advantage, but i cant put a number on it. Watch out for Side B, Bite, (he can more or less avoid our bacon with sideb-Crouch, you have to be careful though, because if he does it, the hit doesnt turn you around, so he can **** you up with your back turned). Jab is hilariously good against GNW. Recovery is a pain in the ass because of DSmash and Dair. best bet would be to try (if you have a jump available), jump and toss a few bacons on stge to push him away from the ledge so you can recover safely

Peach - Peach's favor. easily. dsmash is really good, turnips are fantastic, and pretty much all her aerials **** the **** out of ours. If youre like me and like to apply platform pressure by tossing bacons at them and upB'ing, be careful as ****. If she reads your UpB welcome to dsmash. Just in general, be careful of her on platforms when shes above you, cuz as far as i could tell (and remember ;-, her smash beats most of our aerials.

Wolf - wolf ***** us.

Ganon - we **** ganon still

Lucas - Lucas is weird as ****, i played 3 different lucas's and could get much out of it


I went 2-0 against Ciz, 2-1 against Apples, 0-2 against Bladewise and 0-2 against Meta

highlights
Got ciz trapped on a platform on Fountain of Dreams, did 3 usmash in a row - FIrst missed, immediately did another, and it hit his shield, then dash forward a lil bit for a 3rd and it hit for the kill

Broke Apple's shield without using Judgement - IIRC, usmash, he jumped onto a platform, then i tossed a bacon and fair to break his shield. Killed at about 36 percent on Warioware (**** this stage). Last stock, got an incredibly HARD read on him and killed him with charged usmash

Also everyone got hyped because i kept getting kills and combos with DACUS.

and gimpyfish agreed with some of the things i said to fix gnw, suck it nerds

(he also said, that people say gnw sucks cuz hes GNW, and because people are trying to play him like Melee GNW, which is a horrible idea, so they immediately dismiss him as bad. He said that i play GNW as PM GNW and likes that, especially with combos that use upB effectively.)

 

[Dakpo]

its nearly 1 am, im tired and just got back from GC

played against Ciz, Meta, Bladewise, Apples, and a few other people

random matchup discussion

Diddy Kong - If you stay on top of him with bacons (platform pressure works wonders too), matchup is mostly in our favor. He hits hella hard though, watch out for bananas- Disco bunny made this match up seem really hard. I gotta play it more

Wario - Holy ****ing ****, Apples was so good with wario. IMO, its hella in Wario's advantage, but i cant put a number on it. Watch out for Side B, Bite, (he can more or less avoid our bacon with sideb-Crouch, you have to be careful though, because if he does it, the hit doesnt turn you around, so he can **** you up with your back turned). Jab is hilariously good against GNW. Recovery is a pain in the *** because of DSmash and Dair. best bet would be to try (if you have a jump available), jump and toss a few bacons on stge to push him away from the ledge so you can recover safely- agreed, wario is great and oddly beats us in the air

Peach - Peach's favor. easily. dsmash is really good, turnips are fantastic, and pretty much all her aerials **** the **** out of ours. If youre like me and like to apply platform pressure by tossing bacons at them and upB'ing, be careful as ****. If she reads your UpB welcome to dsmash. Just in general, be careful of her on platforms when shes above you, cuz as far as i could tell (and remember ;-, her smash beats most of our aerials.- Completely disagree with this. This match up is in our favor 4sure. Our uptilt beats everything she has in the air. We can stop hovering with bacon. We can kill a lot easier. Turnips are ok at best.... Seriously we can run and duck under them. If they throw them in the air, man up and catch them (Being a zss main, I kinda have a lot of item experience though :3)

Wolf - wolf ***** us.- Wolf is 50/50 imo We both have tools to body each other. Im not sure why you think he ***** us

Ganon - we **** ganon still- We die so low and he beats us in the air this one is tough for me

Lucas - Lucas is weird as ****, i played 3 different lucas's and could get much out of it- Its a pretty tough match-up. Im not sure what to think either

 

[Strong Badam]

DK IS SUPER FREE
It is easily our 6-4
Oracle didnt even try :'/

this man knows....

 

[Juushichi]

Wish I would have gotten to play Apples more when he was in Ohio (especially in 2.5/b), but I've been playing the Wario matchup since 2.1 and it's probably the MU I have played the most often outside of Puff.

It's like no worse than 60-40 Wario. Jab, dtilt and stuff are annoying and really do a number on GnW and his mobility in the air is very annoying to contend with (jump/DJ bair is a huge pain). DSmash isn't really a problem at the ledge, especially since they nerfed the distance that he was able to meteor you at the ledge (you can immediately up-B and get back safely) and you can bait out dair or just sweetspot the ledge properly.

Side-B to Crouch Jab or Down Tilt is great vs Game and Watch because not only is a pretty safe stagger on the back of his shield... you can actually get stuffed trying to up-B OoS or just get jab-grabbed. In terms of the CC game, for some reason he is so fat that at most %s he can actually dtilt twice before you get your own out... or he can Dtilt in reaction to your dtilt/jab. It's stupid stuff.

However, for the most part you can roll out of his Side-B crouch and at any point he does the full one and you don't get shield poked, which is a real thing because you will have to shield vs Wario a lot, you can WD OoS -> just about anything. Even with his large aerial mobility, he can still be hit in the air and you can take his jumps somewhat well. He's pretty susceptible to up-B combos out of uthrow and other throw mixups and it's slightly easier to edgeguard him than it was in 2.5. Watch out though for his up-B at the ledge, because it seems no matter how much I try to stall in order to get a ledgeroll or ledgeguard, it lingers long enough to either hit me off or grab the ledge.

Oh and speaking of, his up-B can kill GnW around the top of the screen at 125 (and it's very hard to punish even if you don't die from it).

---

Lucas is weird as ****, still learning that MU.

You have to play Peach like you're playing a Brawl game (or like playing against P:M Snake) and then go ham with nair offstage or when she is above you. Try your very hardest not to trade *nair especially and only take stray hits that you are given. If she is preparing to hold down, try to fall on her with Nair or Dair, the only aerial moves that can really break CC otherwise just leave her alone and try to bait out dash attack distance. Oh, plus everything Dakpo says. We don't really lose to any floaty character, I feel. Play this MU really really gay and maybe you will win. Large stages or close side blastzones (Stadiums are good, Dreamland... maybe?, BF is okay).

Wolf? I have to play it again. He seemed the easiest of all the Spacies before (and a 50/50 MU), but we'll see.

What is your guy's opinion on the Sheik MU?

 

[Yung Mei]

everybody at the tournament agreed with "who the **** thought fat as hell bacons with no end lag was a good idea"

SPEAKING OF WHICH

gnw dittos is probably the gayest matchup in all of PM
it literally came down to "Who bacon's more"

 

[Juushichi]

GnW is also susceptable to just about every combo that he has and you should know how to stuff your own recovery, lol.

 

[Yung Mei]

what? when we played, there was close to no having to recover, most of it was on stage blasting bacons at each other

 

[Metmetm3t]

Wolf eats a guaranteed U-Throw to Nair at kill percents. That alone puts the matchup in our favor. In neutral we are pretty even with them, and Wolf's damage output keeps up with ours. But G&W should be consistently getting kills first because all it takes is a grab.

 

[Yung Mei]

my opinions on the matchup is based solely on the fact that its ****ing META who i was playing. As wrestlmania eloquently put it, "****s crazy I kinda just sat there at watched.."

 

[dettadeus]

Yeah, at EVO I beat Meta's G&W 2-0 in a MM with ROB and then he double-or-nothing'd me with Wolf and won his money back 2-0. :T

That Wolf is crazy.

 

[Yung Mei]

meta plays both GNW and Wolf, and says wolf ***** the **** out of GNW

ive played against him several times now and 100% agree

idk what wolf you've been playing darkmetroid, but i can prolly guarantee he's nowhere near Meta's level

 

[Metà]

yeah wolf kinda disrespects all of GW's approach options, even food. Side-b KO's GW at like 60% on some stages and it's not that hard to combo him into it

 

[QraQ]

Wolf just gets under GnWs only real approach, Breakfast

 

[dettadeus]

Wolf only eats his meat raw, none of that cooked and processed crap.

 

[Artimus]

Wolf MU blows.

 

[KayB]

How do you do the Dash Attack into Up Smash? That looks like crazy fun to try out.

 

[Artimus]

Two ways. DACUS startup hitbox will send them into the Usmash, or the Gatling combo works by down c-stick and then up c-stick on first hitbox of DA. It was answered and discussed in more detail earlier in the thread if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Yung Mei]

cstick v^ is the way i do it, second way that artimus listed. Try doing Falco's gatling combo in brawl its essentially the same input, though you gotta time it so that the dash attack sends them forward instead of back. Doing it late causes them to go behind you


also, does anyone else think that none of the spacies matchups is in our favor? cuz thats what i think, i think our most favorable matchup is falco, and at most, its 50/50

 

[Nemiak temp]

cstick v^ is the way i do it, second way that artimus listed. Try doing Falco's gatling combo in brawl its essentially the same input, though you gotta time it so that the dash attack sends them forward instead of back. Doing it late causes them to go behind you


also, does anyone else think that none of the spacies matchups is in our favor? cuz thats what i think, i think our most favorable matchup is falco, and at most, its 50/50

Falco 50/50 for us? Bull****. I'd say we might be able to deal with Wolf but Falco takes a nice big **** on GW. I play with MattDotZeb every week and he puts me to shame when I go GW. I'd put it at 70/30 Falco's favor and the only reason being that and not worse is if we can take him onto a stage with platforms. Chain grab him a bit then get him on a platform and keep him up there with bacon. Fox has upsmash so that matchup is easily 80/20. Doesn't matter how many buffs you give Game and Watch he still dies at 70 or earlier to fox.