Q&A Unleashing a 2-D Horror - A Game and Watch Thread

[Oracle]

learn expected returns and hammer gets way better

probability pls

 

[Juushichi]

If you want to create a blockstring on sheild, learn a super viable way to hit chef on them.

Move is +6/+7 for a reason.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

What frame does Chef come out on?

 

[Juushichi]

Dunno, but m3t might be able to help out.

We really need a frame data thread here.

 

[Metmetm3t]

I'm hardly a code reader, but the tea leaves say frame 9.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

After trying out other characters for a while after 2.5 came out, I'm finally getting back into using GW. I've got one glaring problem with my gameplay though, I can't manage to get his up-smash from dash gatling combo to come out. The grab is no problem at all, but any time I manage to somehow pull the smash out in training, it's not very consistent and I can't duplicate it a second time. Any tips towards getting better at this?

 

[Yung Mei]

what method are you using? if youre doing the gatling combo (aka the best combo in the universe), just cstick down to dash attack into then, then immediately hit cstick up, the dash attack now autocombos into usmash this way (which personally i think is WAYYY too good, and should get nerfed, aka, old dash attack)

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

I've been doing just that, Cstick down for the DA and then up on the stick, but it doesn't come out for me. He stays in DA most of the time and doesn't even try to up smash, I'm pretty fast when it comes to hitting buttons, but it still could be my timing is off.

I've been trying to do this for over an hour and it's just refusing to work. It happens in 2/3 speed with no issue, but it's like the controller refuses to receive inputs that quickly when it happens in 1x speed.

 

[Metmetm3t]

If you are consistently getting the grab, but not the UpSmash it means you are simply missing the input. Maybe you should try switching to whatever input method you use for DACUS.

 

[Yung Mei]

asking a bit of a personal question here, is there anything out of the ordinary with your finger, specifically your thumb? my friend also uses several characters who could gatling in PM/Brawl, and its impossible for him to do Cstick Only because his thumb is double jointed and cant move it fast enough because of it

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

If you are consistently getting the grab, but not the UpSmash it means you are simply missing the input. Maybe you should try switching to whatever input method you use for DACUS.

My biggest problem here is that when I try to do this like that, the grab comes out instead. GW seems to be the only character where Z prioritizes the grab over a smash for DACUS.

asking a bit of a personal question here, is there anything out of the ordinary with your finger, specifically your thumb? my friend also uses several characters who could gatling in PM/Brawl, and its impossible for him to do Cstick Only because his thumb is double jointed and cant move it fast enough because of it

Not as far as I know. There should be nothing wrong with my thumb that would impede me from quickly going down to up. When I'm in 2/3 speed, I can see that the hit needs to be canceled before he makes his beep sound, basically right after a headbutt, but quickly alternating from down to up at this point doesn't seem to work. It's maddeningly frustrating, because I know it's do-able, but I don't seem to manage it.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

And it will be less unpredictable and therefor less fun.

Fun is a subjective term. I prefer things to be useful. "Fun" follows shortly after that.

 

[Metmetm3t]

My biggest problem here is that when I try to do this like that, the grab comes out instead. GW seems to be the only character where Z prioritizes the grab over a smash for DACUS.

G&W can't DACUS with Z because he has a 1 frame DACUS. There are actually a few characters like this. To do a DACUS without using Z you will either have to claw the A button or set a shoulder button to attack. Both of those methods also work for the Gatling Combo.

bonus:

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

G&W can't DACUS with Z because he has a 1 frame DACUS. There are actually a few characters like this.

This is true. Marth is one of them. I set my R button to Attack specifically for easier DACUSing.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

G&W can't DACUS with Z because he has a 1 frame DACUS. There are actually a few characters like this. To do a DACUS without using Z you will either have to claw the A button or set a shoulder button to attack. Both of those methods also work for the Gatling Combo.

That explains my problem then. Is his gattling combo ridiculously easy as a c-stick only method naturally though? I feel really bad that I can't get something down that only takes one form of input.

In any case, I'll swap over to brawl for a controller change, then test it out with a shoulder button.

Okay, swapped to a shoulder button for it and I seem able to get it without much effort. Thanks for your suggestions.

This is true. Marth is one of them. I set my R button to Attack specifically for easier DACUSing.

That's actually the button I swapped mine to just now, it works great. Thanks for the button suggestion.

 

[Artimus]

I've been doing just that, Cstick down for the DA and then up on the stick, but it doesn't come out for me. He stays in DA most of the time and doesn't even try to up smash, I'm pretty fast when it comes to hitting buttons, but it still could be my timing is off.

I've been trying to do this for over an hour and it's just refusing to work. It happens in 2/3 speed with no issue, but it's like the controller refuses to receive inputs that quickly when it happens in 1x speed.

If you're using just the c-stick then it must be returned to neutral before smashing another direction or the input won't register, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Yung Mei]

yes that too, though, it never passes my mind since when youre moving to cstick up, you pass by neutral anyways

Also, Puff is now 1110/0 our favor because bacon

 

[Artimus]

Yeah, but if you don't pass neutral then it won't register. So, if you're too fast, it could be input error, missing the neutral position.

Like, instead of directly smashing down, then up, he's accidentally rolling the c-stick a bit? idk, DACUS is more fun.

Wasn't Jiggly always 1110/0 our favor because u-smash kills at 12%?

 

[Yung Mei]

yes that too

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Yeah, but if you don't pass neutral then it won't register. So, if you're too fast, it could be input error, missing the neutral position.

Like, instead of directly smashing down, then up, he's accidentally rolling the c-stick a bit? idk, DACUS is more fun.

It very well could be that I was doing it too quickly, but when you've got such a small frame of time in order to go from DA to USmash, quickly is all I can think of doing. As far as rolling the stick, I don't think that's it. I was probably just not letting it return to neutral. In any case, R for attack fixes my inability to do it, so I'm happy. May my opponent's suffer at the hands of Game and Watch.

 

[leelue]

As far as rolling the stick, I don't think that's it. I was probably just not letting it return to neutral.

Are these not the same thing?

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Are these not the same thing?

They are, but I assumed that by moving the C-stick too quickly, it would ignore the neutral input on the path from down to up, as if it just jumped over neutral altogether.

 

[Artimus]

Or you were doing it too soon or too late, you have to wait for the hit of DA to cancel it. But, if you've found a new way to do it then kudos! And yes, moving it too quickly will ignore the neutral position.

 

[Juushichi]

yes that too, though, it never passes my mind since when youre moving to cstick up, you pass by neutral anyways

Also, Puff is now 1110/0 our favor because bacon

55-45.

Her air mobility (and air mobility in general) is a problem for GnW in general since he still has a bit of a linear approach. She's one of some-odd characters who can really bone GnW on his recovery if she's focusing on just trading where he appears and not when he's just starting his recovery and does pretty well sometimes trapping him off the ledge. Bair still can and will stuff a jump/whatever GnW wants to do.

Someone trying to learn how he works though...
That **** is like 70-30, our favor. It's really hard for them to "get" it until they do.

 

[Oracle]

puff is our favor because shield breaks

 

[Artimus]

Found out bair at mid percents combos into footstool > dair > usmash really well.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

How long does the tumble last before someone can perform an action when you footstool? I've been trying to incorporate footstools in my game but always forget to do that when I hit the lab.

 

[Artimus]

Footstools count as a spike, so its a relatively long stun. Off stage is devastating but it can be techd on stage, but its awkward and isn't used much, so don't expect many people to be prepared for a wonky on stage footstool if you combo in to it properly

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Ah. I thought there was a property that prevented teching from footstools.

That's unfortunate.

 

[Artimus]

Its possible, just not very likely. Footstools are really awkward.

 

[Metmetm3t]

When it comes to footstools it's not any more awkward to tech it's just a matter of them being more unexpected. As for your combo Art, it would probably be easier to just Dair from the start. The only advantage the footstool affords you is a tiny bit of mind games. Another, even easier thing to combo out of Bair, is raw FSmash. If you get a two hit FSmash you are sacrificing 17%, but it's a more guaranteed setup.

 

[Artimus]

Yes, but dair is buttcheeks for spacing. Shffld bairs are good for that, and under the right circumstances can lead to the footstool. Its unorthodox, but we are playing the jankiest character anyway so to hell with being conventional.

 

[Metmetm3t]

Ah, no I meant Bair>Dair1>Dair2>Usmash. Over Bair>Footstool>Dair2>Upsmash

 

[Artimus]

Oh, yeah, that makes more sense. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Yung Mei]

went to a melee tourney (that was suprisingly successful) with my PM set up being teh only pm setup

played some matches against squirtle, that matchup is SOOOO much fun, though, i would put that matchup anywhere between 4-6, 6-4, or 5/5

we **** ganon still
falcon matchup got a little tougher, we got some hella easy stuff on him, but if he gets a combo or momentum going, prepare your butthole

rob is easy, though watch out for nearly all of his forward moves, especially ftilt, holy **** ftilt is hilariously good against GNW (imo)

also, wavebounced Judgement is the greatest thing in the universe

also, i broke someones shield twice in the same match

without using 3

 

[Juushichi]

went to a brawl tournament today with my PM setup (and 5 others), so I kinda ran a PM tournament.

played some matches vs some ikes and i really don't have any fun in that MU, so I play Link instead. would probably put it at 4-6.

we **** ganon still and beat puff pretty solidly.\
falcon matchup is still pretty easy, we still have hella stuff on him, but we basically have everything we had in 2.5. if he does get momentum though, he does falcon things.

watch out for mario though, unless you're dakpo and can use bacon like a god or something. otherwise he CCs everything and just kinda does things and stuff.

i broke a jigglypuff's sheild in friendies it was funny. just used a 3.

tourney wise though, i lost to Ally Ike in WSF (played link though) and lost to Zinoto Mario in LSF after beating SoulPech Jiggs 2-0 in a close set. Dunno why he gave me Yoshi's Island: Brawl to start, but he did. I'll take what I can get. Placed 4th. I'm bad.

Good luck to Dakpo today at LTC in the losers side of Top-6 (winners side of doubles T-8 with Sethlon, iirc). Do work. Go watch him around 2PM EST (1PM CST), though from what I heard of DMG venue opens at 12 CST.

Also congrats to Oracle for getting 9th, iirc, though I only saw him use Lucas on stream. Also, anti-shoutouts for getting mauled by Strong_DK (0-3), but not really it's all love. What would you say that MU is, Oracle?

 

[Nahpro]

Just from what I noticed about Ike:

Ike is strange because he has two effective ranges. One is his f-tilt distance that out ranges G&W pretty soundly and the other is his quickdraw distance, which is several character distances away. So the safest/best place to engage is either up in his face or super far away and have him come to you instead. You can tangle with him at his quickdraw distance but it's a guessing game. You can duck to avoid the jc grab or shield grab the actually quickdraw attack. But you can't use aerials reliably (bair backwards) because quickdraw attack actually out ranges it unless you get a good drop angle. And then you have to worry about the third and fourth options of Ike just zooming past you (a reset) or committing to a short hop dair/ aerial (not fun). Anyway, you can force him to approach with bacon at long range and pop a premature quick draw with bacon at quickdraw range.

Overall, get up close and you can wreck him. His recovery is also quite predictable albeit safer than it looks so you can try for a gimp. I'd personally put the match at 5-5 although metroid (the Ike one) says that he thinks it's slightly in G&W's favor.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

I don't like the match-up, because not only do we get out-poked, but GnW is as light as a feather. Our tools to get in and harass him aren't as powerful/pressuring as some other lightweights that CAN deal with him (and there aren't a lot of lightweights as light as we are, either)

 

[leelue]

Seriously his dacus is bananananananananas

 

[Yung Mei]

http://www.twitch.tv/mimimimi253/b/437899191

recorded a bunch of matches today (mostly friendlies), if anyone wants to poke around for gnw matches, otherwise, when i have the time, ill reupload to yt and mark down the times i used GNW