Under Construction (FAQ + Q&A)

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I have a MU related question. How do I defend against a Wario that stays in the air all of the time and abuses Dair? So basically I'm asking tips on how to handle Wario. I generally use D3 for that matchup but I need to learn this for Snake.

 

[Limeee]

cook grenades, so that they blow up in the air. uptilt his dair

its a difficult MU however. Just don't get fooled

 

[ChomP]

They shouldn't be using it at the VERY edge, but it's some good pressure if you put it just a bit away from the edge.

hmm I should try that more. I usually just plant a c4 or pull out a grenade.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

I have a MU related question. How do I defend against a Wario that stays in the air all of the time and abuses Dair? So basically I'm asking tips on how to handle Wario. I generally use D3 for that matchup but I need to learn this for Snake.

Predict his jumps and hit him with nair/uair/bair. You can also pivot grab it, just don't stay in your shield trying to shield it, try to move out of the way. His dair can shieldpoke well, plus it autocancels to allow followups.

 

[Underload]

C4 works, too. He's gotta land sometime, right? Try to find the spot where he lands the most, and pop a C4 there. Usually works for me.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Why must most of the good Wario's be scattered across my region? Lol but yes I have figured out the hard way that not to allow yourself to be a sitting duck vs Wario's Dair. It is indeed a great shield poke. I will try Underload's C4 strategy also as I overlooked that. I think I just need to get better at predicting him. The perspective I have as Snake as opposed to D3 vs Wario is totally different. It's a little more scary when you feel like you can't leave the ground.

Thanks for the advice all.

Another MU question. What's a good stage to take Falco to?

 

[ChomP]

What should I be doing if a ddd keeps using ftilt on me? Should I keep nade camping?

 

[g2g4gold]

Yo, Snake forums! You guys've been a great help in the past, and I'll be relying on you in the future. Anyhow, my first tourney's on Friday, and every time I get a question answered here there's usually a few more soon after.

So, here goes, I'm indebted to all you guys.
1. Neutral air. Every now and then, this connects and it's beautiful, but far and away I get punished for it. Is it more of a defensive retreating thing, or should I try and use it as a more situational part of my game? And never when coming from above (if he's below me?)?

2. Boost pivot grabs are still messing with my mind, I always end up DACUSing or dash attacking or even an f-smash now and then when I try to do one. Definitely not able to use this in battle yet, but any tips? And how much do you feel it's helped your game as a Snake?

3. Grenade game. I know this is something I work out for myself, but if there's anything neat you've got I oughta try out? I've been experimenting with soft/medium tossing more often instead of shield drop/throw all the time, or even just dropping the grenade and leaving it there, with a bit more success. Is this a development for me, or is this something I may not be able to rely on in higher levels of play?

Like, are cooked grenades on each throw something I should be striving toward? Thanks!

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

1. All of Snake's aerials classify as situational. It's fairly easy to punish Nair since it's a four hit move and can be DI'ed out of. It's general uses are keep people out of your face in the air when you're being pressured or as a mixup. A decent punisher also if you can bait the airdodge. However most people aren't afraid of Snake in the air as he's mediocre when it comes to aerial combat. It's also a decent edgeguard. For edgeguarding you'll more or less want to hit with the last hit (the strongest) of Nair. Fastfalling it creates some decent mindgames also for the last hit to connect. But generally if you're trying to hit with the whole thing you don't want to be too far as a good player will DI and punish accordingly.

2. You shouldn't be accidentally Forward Smashing when performing this move unless you're hitting the C-stick to the side and not downward. You CAN perform like that but if you mess up the price is fatal. Sounds like you aren't hitting grab soon enough. Also if you're Mortarsliding you'll just have to consciously tell yourself not to tap up on the Control Stick. It's hard when Mortarsliding becomes second nature ( I used to do it to)

Its Dash >[ Grab + Down-C-stick+Back ]

The stuff I put in brackets should all generally be done at the same time for one fluid motion with the hands. Difficult to get down at first but invaluable to learn. This helps your grab and overall spacing game A LOT. Snake's pivot grabs are already pretty good, the range is deceptively long. And the more grabs you get, the more chances for tech chasing <3 Which means more damage.


If still have trouble doing this before you're tournament just stick to regular pivot grabs. It's not worth trying to use a technique you haven't fully mastered yet in a high pressure situation. I learned that the hard way.

3. Snake's grenades are highly versatile and can be used in a myriad of ways. Be sure that when you are shield dropping them you are staying alert to the timer on them for more successful attacks. I also just chuck grenades at people for the damage they deal when they just hit someone before exploding.

You have options though. Try Z dropping them in the air. You can also immediately re catch them again with Z. It's a cute mindgame.

You can also pick them up with dash attacks or Mortarslides also. I love using the slide to pick them up when they're already on the defensive.

You can also just drop them for spacing. Like I said grenades are very versatile.

There's no true wrong way to use them just use them accordingly to the situation at hand.

Hope this helped.

 

[AvoiD]

Anyone got some advice on the Olimar mu?

 

[etecoon]

my advice for the olimar matchup

is to not use snake against olimar

D:

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

That MU isn't that bad. At the worst its 45-55 for Snake. The roadblock that most Snake's encounter with this matchup is that they're too aggresive. You need to play VERY safe and your spacing needs to be correct as well. Olimar, like Snake is a ground combat character but has better spacing options with his **** grab range and red pikmin that don't die from explosives.

Your grenade game has to be on point here and you have to be very patient. Pay very close attention to what Pikmin he has in front and which one is second. Olimars often like to bait players with obvious grabs and then punish them accordingly with the next Pikmin. Remember:

Red - Immune to fire damage (your explosives), their aerials kill. They are always the first Pikmin called to the front when Pikmin Whistle is used.

Yellow- High priority, creates disjointed hitboxes, their spikes are lethal, quick and disjointed. Their Up airs juggle well also. Next in line after Red.

Blue - Extremely long grab range and great grabbing power. Average in all other aspects. Next after Yellow.

White - Quickest grabs and their range is about as good as blues. Their overall power for KO, grabbing, damage is very weak. When they latch on to you though they do the most damage. 40% if uninterrupted.Oh and their pummels on their grabs do a lot of damage too 3 to 4% each hit. Next after Blue.

Purple: Their grab range is horrid. Olimar won't be grabbing you with this unless your within KO range most likely. They don't latch on when thrown they just turn into decent knockback projectiles. Due to their weight, their Up Smashes and Up Throws are LETHAL. Remember this. Also they live longer than other Pikmin.

Know how these affect Olimar's playstyle. What seems like a random, erratic playstyle is actually somewhat telegraphed for you.

Okay anyway, play smart, and I reccomend saving Up-Tilt if you can. You want him to die asap as he racks up the damage insanely fast on you. Don't get demoralized if you get comboed for 60%, it can happen easily. Camp with Nades effectively and wait for your opportunity. When you gain momentum don't give up. Olimar succumbs to pressure much like Snake does.
And if you can land a grab on him its very valuable. It's not hard to tech chase him at all but at the very least get him off the stage. B-Throw, F-Throw, whatever.
EDGEGUARD. Not enough Snakes do this. He has a tether recovery!! Get him off the stage and make it hell for him to get back on. He can be gimped if you're smart.

If he gets you off the stage and you have to get back on it don't get predictable. Pivot grabs **** predictable Snakes and then you're flung off the stage again. B-Reversal your specials, soft throw grenades, drop C4, just switch it up. You don't want to be grabbed here at all.

There's more but I'm at work and feeling lazy. Hope this helped.

 

[g2g4gold]

1. All of Snake's aerials classify as situational. It's fairly easy to punish Nair since it's a four hit move and can be DI'ed out of. It's general uses are keep people out of your face in the air when you're being pressured or as a mixup. A decent punisher also if you can bait the airdodge. However most people aren't afraid of Snake in the air as he's mediocre when it comes to aerial combat. It's also a decent edgeguard. For edgeguarding you'll more or less want to hit with the last hit (the strongest) of Nair. Fastfalling it creates some decent mindgames also for the last hit to connect. But generally if you're trying to hit with the whole thing you don't want to be too far as a good player will DI and punish accordingly.

2. You shouldn't be accidentally Forward Smashing when performing this move unless you're hitting the C-stick to the side and not downward. You CAN perform like that but if you mess up the price is fatal. Sounds like you aren't hitting grab soon enough. Also if you're Mortarsliding you'll just have to consciously tell yourself not to tap up on the Control Stick. It's hard when Mortarsliding becomes second nature ( I used to do it to)

Its Dash >[ Grab + Down-C-stick+Back ]

The stuff I put in brackets should all generally be done at the same time for one fluid motion with the hands. Difficult to get down at first but invaluable to learn. This helps your grab and overall spacing game A LOT. Snake's pivot grabs are already pretty good, the range is deceptively long. And the more grabs you get, the more chances for tech chasing <3 Which means more damage.


If still have trouble doing this before you're tournament just stick to regular pivot grabs. It's not worth trying to use a technique you haven't fully mastered yet in a high pressure situation. I learned that the hard way.

3. Snake's grenades are highly versatile and can be used in a myriad of ways. Be sure that when you are shield dropping them you are staying alert to the timer on them for more successful attacks. I also just chuck grenades at people for the damage they deal when they just hit someone before exploding.

You have options though. Try Z dropping them in the air. You can also immediately re catch them again with Z. It's a cute mindgame.

You can also pick them up with dash attacks or Mortarslides also. I love using the slide to pick them up when they're already on the defensive.

You can also just drop them for spacing. Like I said grenades are very versatile.

There's no true wrong way to use them just use them accordingly to the situation at hand.

Hope this helped.

Technical Chase, had my first tourney today, and I gotta hand it to you. I couldn't get boost grabs at all for a while, but it clicked halfway through one of the tournament games, actually, and it seems like I got it!

Aerial use is getting smarter in general, too, this was just a good post, hands down. 'preciate it!

 

[Attila_]

@tech chase: i still wouldnt use snake against olimar. the mu is most certainly worse than that. oli should be outcamping snake, and can most assuredly stop snake from approaching with properly spaced grabs. in fact, all characters that beat oli do so because they can come at him from the air; snake can't even think about doing that. this mu is snake's worst imo, second to d3.

oh, and take falco to lylat, stay on the lower end and he can't actually hit you at all. if he bans it, yi and delphino are good choices too.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Technical Chase, had my first tourney today, and I gotta hand it to you. I couldn't get boost grabs at all for a while, but it clicked halfway through one of the tournament games, actually, and it seems like I got it!

Aerial use is getting smarter in general, too, this was just a good post, hands down. 'preciate it!

No problem. I have a lot of tournament experience as Snake here in Michigan and I like to help. Though I rarely visited the Snake boards before lol But I want to be a more established member of the Snake community (this is a new account, wanted a name change) so here I am. And that's pretty funny you mention that. I remember when I was first trying to learn Mortarsliding and I had only half learned it before my very first tournament. Then when I entered the tournament I get paired off against a way more experienced Snake and the rush of the battle made me learn the slide lol Almost beat him but got timed out. SO CLOSE lol But anyway should you need more advice feel free to hit me up.

@shmot: D3 vs Snake isn't even that bad either. I agree that D3 is our worst matchup but that's very doable as well. Just requires a LOT of patience. Seriously none of Snake's bad matchups are that bad. They require more defensive, safe play but certainly doable. And as far as Olimars go I have L_Cancel and Coco in my state. Lain occasionally uses D3 but we don't have any except me (I consider myself a D3/Snake main). So I have the experience.


Also thank you for the info. I hate YI and Delphino as Snake though lol But Lylat is a personal favorite. I generally like Frigate but Falco can camp well there also.

 

[GTR!]

Whats a good CP stage when fighting against a Kirby (when the kirby bans Halberd )?

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Final Destination is great because Kirby doesn't do that great on wide open spaces. No platforms to abuse his jumps, aerials and up-throws. No slants in the stage to do his Stone tricks. All he can do is try to approach and take advantage when he gets inside. Snake camps very well here.

Smashville is great for the main reasons listed above. Then add a moving platform for added stage control (C4 and Landmines) and you've got some fun tricks. These two stages are great against Kirby. Anything that allows you to camp and use your stage control to the fullest.

Brinstar is also good. Prevents stupid Kirby gimps, and the low blastzones, platforms and dark stage allow for early kills and fun stage control. The acid will save your *** here more than you realize. Up-tilt will kill retardly early here. Practice here if you don't know nice this stage can be.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

lol Brinstar, please don't ever take Kirby there, its baaaaaddd

I rly like Battlefield against Kirby, you can put nades and C4s on platforms to disrupt his airgame. And the platform gives you some more landing options, esp the high platform.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I've never had issues against Kirby on Brinstar but then again I don't have anyone like Chudat, Y.b.M or Falln in my state. Plus I've had Kirby's john about that stage on me. But I am just going by personal experience.

I like Battlefield but I think it benefits Kirby about as much as it benefits us. They can air camp pretty well here while we can stage control easier here. I love platforms but against a character like Kirby I prefer open spaces more.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Brinstar is a stage solely for characters with good air game. The platform and the small stage and the lava basically forces most of the fighting into the air. Plus the tight blastzones takes away some of Snake's survivability, esp horizontally. I personally like this stage, but it is def not a good stage for snake, the disadvantages outweigh the advantages. Against characters with good airgames like Kirby, MK, Marth, Ganon you should def avoid.

 

[GTR!]

Well to put it in context, the first match was on SV. It was really close. We were both on last stock but he ended up winning. Eventually I CPd FD, but the Kirby kept comboing me in the air with his utilt and grab combos. Partly it was my fault for horrible spacing etc. but I was thikning that the platforms on BF would have helped w/ the combos and spacing/stage control.

So between BF and FD which would be better?

 

[Yumewomiteru]

b f

 

[GTR!]

alright thanks.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

n p

 

[TheOriginalSmasher]

It is smarter / safer to try and spike with fair, or set down a nade and maybe a mine at the ledge?

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Running off the stage and spiking with fair is MUCH safer, this doesnt even need to be asked.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Sorry bout the double post, but ppl may not notice my post if I edit the above one.

I think everyone knows about the hit opponent off platform -> jab reset -> f-smash. But it is easy to see coming and can be avoided by teching. I'm just wondering if they can avoid the fsmash by SDIing the Jab, or if we can still walk a lil then fsmash, or if the fsmash has good enough range to hit them even if they SDI.

Speaking of SDI, how often do you guys use it? Does it help DI survivability at all? if so is it practical? Also I know about QCDI but haven't practiced it, anyone use it and find it rly helpful?

 

[Limeee]

i'm really lazy when it comes to smash DI. i usually DI things like falcos jab or w/e and kill moves, just general hits i use normal DI

 

[Hipster]

How do you do a soft grenade throw?

 

[Underload]

Hold back on the control stick before you let go of B to throw a grenade.

Also, love the name.

 

[RATED]

Sorry bout the double post, but ppl may not notice my post if I edit the above one.

Speaking of SDI, how often do you guys use it? Does it help DI survivability at all? if so is it practical? Also I know about QCDI but haven't practiced it, anyone use it and find it rly helpful?

I use SDI a lot, since is not only used to survive it can be used also to punish things like DDD's Uair and multihits like that. examples wario can SDI MKs fair and fart MK right away.

SDI Diddy's Fsmash to survive it even more to get launched at diddy's back , Pit's Fsmash and some things like that.

IMO is reaaaaaaally useful.

if u didnt understood something bcuz of my bad english, PM me or post here.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

I get the idea, which method do you use to SDI? QCDI or conventional SDI method?

 

[RATED]

I get the idea, which method do you use to SDI? QCDI or conventional SDI method?

both, depending the move or the situation or sometimes I just do it by reaction or instinct

 

[phi1ny3]

Snake v. DDD MU...

I need halp on it D:

The only thing I've really learned is backwards sliding grenade grab > ddd grab, usmash helps in disruption, but it's still really silly.

Like what grenade patterns should I be working for? I thought about keeping a grenade behind me at a distance, but eh.

edit: one other question I guess, when falco gets air released by snake, can you boost grab to regrab him?

 

[Technodeath]

I always try and keep a nade infront and behind me at most intervals. But it mainly depends on the positioning of the DDD.

Other than that I always place a landmine/bomb somewhere to interfere with things.
And just space myself well.

My biggest problem I have with anything is Olimar. I hate his guts.
I might not have looked hard enough, but where do I want to take him?
And how do I deal with him, do I try and rival his camping, or just try and get in?

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Both DDD and Olimar have being thoroughly discussed in the matchup thread.

 

[AvoiD]

What do you guys think of a Snake/Peach team?

Tips or advice porfavor?

 

[Technodeath]

Yeah I finally went and read through the Oli matchup thread

All sorted now. I shouldn't be so lazy D:

 

[phi1ny3]

Can we boost regrab falco out of an air release?

 

[Yumewomiteru]

yu s