#UltimateDLCSoMale: The Female DLC Character Discussion

[Dinoman96]

I don't know, the WarioWare cast is funny and all, but none of them really feel like they're iconic or important enough to be in Smash Bros., and they can't really get away with making them clones like with the additional Mother or Star Fox characters.

 

[Deleted member]

Though, I shouldn't hold my breath, as I've always found it jarring that Wario's default is his biker gear rather than his normal look. Hasn't changed in 12 years.

I dig the biker outfit. Looks more believable if you ask me.

 

[Wrathful_Scythe]

He literally has a bike as a move. Fits perfectly.

Now if he hadn't his original outfit and just color variations of his biker outfit, then I would be grumpy.

 

[Neoxon]

Yea. Corrin is generally depicted as female by default. I don't know why the male alt is the default in Smash.
Though, I shouldn't hold my breath, as I've always found it jarring that Wario's default is his biker gear rather than his normal look. Hasn't changed in 12 years.

To be fair, Intelligent Systems made the pivot after Fates came out. But the decision to stick with Male Corrin as the default in Smash Ultimate despite IS changing course kinda comes off as Sakurai pointlessly standing against the tide. Smash Wii U/3DS I can understand, as that decision was likely made before Sakurai could have known that Female Corrin was the more popular version of the character by a wide margin.

 

[Melonsismyusername]

I’m very confused as to why anyone would want a female character just because they are a female, its like wanting a blue character, pointless due to it only being one characteristic and anything else could be different, therefore it’s sorta like saying “I want a character who is a Lefty, it has no effect on weather or not the character should be in smash.

 

[Ben Holt]

I’m very confused as to why anyone would want a female character just because they are a female, its like wanting a blue character, pointless due to it only being one characteristic and anything else could be different, therefore it’s sorta like saying “I want a character who is a Lefty, it has no effect on weather or not the character should be in smash.

Because people relate to characters, and they want characters to whom they can most relate.

 

[TheYungLink]

I’m very confused as to why anyone would want a female character just because they are a female, its like wanting a blue character, pointless due to it only being one characteristic and anything else could be different, therefore it’s sorta like saying “I want a character who is a Lefty, it has no effect on weather or not the character should be in smash.

If you're confused, you can look back at the past few pages and look at posts made by women.

That's all I'll say this time.

 

[Deleted member]

If you're confused, you can look back at the past few pages and look at posts made by women.

That's all I'll say this time.

But don't let that give you the impression that all women feel the same way you do either. I think a lot of women also believe that merit should come before gender and those that only focus on gender are in the minority.

 

[Deleted member]

But don't let that give you the impression that all women feel the same way you do either. I think a lot of women also believe that merit should come before gender and those that only focus on gender are in the minority.

Merit and gender are two criteria I take in hand. Merit usually comes before gender, but due to how things are shaping up lately, it's more like "gender and merit".

 

[Neoxon]

If you're confused, you can look back at the past few pages and look at posts made by women.

That's all I'll say this time.

This, basically. We explained why this matters several times in the thread already. Long story short, representation matters & it helps women & minorities better connect with the characters (I can attest to this thanks to my own little cousins taking a liking to Twintelle & Min Min in ARMS, which eventually pushed them to ask for a Switch of their own for Christmas).

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

But don't let that give you the impression that all women feel the same way you do either. I think a lot of women also believe that merit should come before gender and those that only focus on gender are in the minority.

exactly, I dont care if the character is a chick, all I care is if the character is fun. Be it male or female, idgaf, make them fun to play

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I’m very confused as to why anyone would want a female character just because they are a female, its like wanting a blue character, pointless due to it only being one characteristic and anything else could be different, therefore it’s sorta like saying “I want a character who is a Lefty, it has no effect on weather or not the character should be in smash.

I'm very confused by the fact that people like you are still using this strawman even though we've debunked this like 10 times in the thread before.

I genuinely don't understand how some people here think that people can't want female characters because of their credentials AND because they're female and they want more characters that match their own gender. A worrying number of people think it's solely because of the latter and not both the former and latter.

Okay, let's pretend that the supposed "worst thing ever happens" and we HAVE to get a female character next "to fill an arbitrary quota" like all the boogeymen are saying.

Working with that limitation, name all the women you genuinely want to see in Smash. All the people who are against the quota? I especially want YOU to participate as well. Just sit there and think, or do research if you have to. I'll start:

Nintendo:

Dixie Kong
Toadette
Midna
Style Savvy character
Elma
Fiora
Byleth with a female alt
Edelgard
Lyn
Caeda

Third-party:

Lara Croft
2B
Female alts for The Hero (specifically Dragon Quest III and IV)
Carmen Sandiego (thanks to this thread for bringing it up, I really want this now lol)
Jill Valentine
Chun-Li

Even working with this "limitation", there's a ton of great characters in here. They have as much reason to be here as many of the other characters already in Smash. So all the people scared of or disgusted by the prospect of "adding a female character JUST to fill a quota", try it for yourself and see if you REALLY think it's so bad.

 

[StarBot]

I’m very confused as to why anyone would want a female character just because they are a female, its like wanting a blue character, pointless due to it only being one characteristic and anything else could be different, therefore it’s sorta like saying “I want a character who is a Lefty, it has no effect on weather or not the character should be in smash.

Ya know, I sorta agree with this statement, but lordy

You know people have already answered this since the first page

 

[Deleted member]

exactly, I dont care if the character is a chick, all I care is if the character is fun. Be it male or female, idgaf, make them fun to play

Takes a lot of balls for a woman to admit that these days. Props to ya!

I also don't think that relating to a character is mutually exclusive to gender either. There's plenty of women in media that I can relate to and I'm sure there's plenty of men that women can relate to as well. I personally like relating to a characters personality, strengths and charisma; not their genitalia.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Takes a lot of balls for a woman to admit that these days. Props to ya!

I also don't think that relating to a character is mutually exclusive to gender either. There's plenty of women in media that I can relate to and I'm sure there's plenty of men that women can relate to as well. I personally like relating to a characters personality, strengths and charisma; not their genitalia.

Lets take Kingdom Hearts for example

I share no connection to Kairi or Aqua but man, do I feel for Ventus and Roxas( these poor boys deserve better in life) and I like them waaaay more

 

[StarBot]

Takes a lot of balls for a woman to admit that these days. Props to ya!

Alot of women (myself included) have already had this opinion on here, we aren't a hivemind

I share no connection to Kairi or Aqua

Probably because how badly written there are

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Probably because how badly written there are

That is true, If anything, I feel a stronger relationship between Sora and Riku then I do with Sora and Kairi, Kairi is just there most of the time. Doubled the face Riku is the one Sora spent 2 games trying to find

I kinda forget everything about Aqua tbh

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Lets take Kingdom Hearts for example

I share no connection to Kairi or Aqua but man, do I feel for Ventus and Roxas( these poor boys deserve better in life) and I like them waaaay more

That is true, If anything, I feel a stronger relationship between Sora and Riku then I do with Sora and Kairi, Kairi is just there most of the time. Doubled the face Riku is the one Sora spent 2 games trying to find

I kinda forget everything about Aqua tbh

Again, that's Nomura's fault. Although Aqua and Xion are still better than Kairi in most of the fanbase's eyes due to the fact that they're not useless.

 

[Deleted member]

Again, that's Nomura's fault. Although Aqua and Xion are still better than Kairi in most of the fanbase's eyes due to the fact that they're not useless.

Yes and no.

I partially blame the scenario writers that were on board that didn't quite have a complete understanding of Nomura's vision for the main plot. I also blame Disney for constantly pestering SE to keep making all these spin-offs because Disney felt they needed a game on every platform that was available at the time whether it was the GBA, PSP, 3DS etc.. I don't think Nomura anticipated to have all these spinoffs in the first place when he conceived the idea of the series and, in my opinion, KH3 is quite evident that he just wanted to get the damn thing over with so he can move onto better things like the FF7 Remake.

He's still one strange dude though.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Again, that's Nomura's fault. Although Aqua and Xion are still better than Kairi in most of the fanbase's eyes due to the fact that they're not useless.

You know, Unironicly keep forgeting about Xion, oof

 

[MaddaD]

I wanted Ashley or Syrup but then Ashley got Thanos snap'd ; w;

She's one of my favorite Wario characters too. I was so heartbroken.

 

[Melonsismyusername]

Ya know, I sorta agree with this statement, but lordy

You know people have already answered this since the first page

I know that, but Idk, including them just for “diversity“ is downplaying the character to try to just someone to fill a arbitrary quota, rather than a great character In the celebration of video games. I’m all for female characters making it in But just to fill an arbitrary ”void” is wrong.

 

[Neoxon]

I know that, but Idk, including them just for “diversity“ is downplaying the character to try to just someone to fill a arbitrary quota, rather than a great character In the celebration of video games. I’m all for female characters making it in But just to fill an arbitrary ”void” is wrong.

Going by your logic, women & minorities are a part of gaming history as well. And Sakurai & Nintendo are ignoring a number of great options on that front. Women who can bring a lot to the table mechanically exist, they just aren't using them for whatever reason.

 

[fogbadge]

err toadette?

 

[TheYungLink]

err toadette?

She'd be fun, yeah. Not as big a name as other Mario characters, but she's now become a part of the main Mario series, being playable in both New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe and Super Mario Maker 2. She's also an NPC in Super Mario Odyssey.

Toad / Captain Toad can be an Echo Fighter or an alt for her, as well. A mix of Super Mario Bros. 2, New Super Mario Bros., and Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker abilities sounds like a fun character.

 

[Biometal]

Spoiler

Can I haz? Guess she'll have to remain a Pipedream for who knows how long.

 

[crazybenjamin]

err toadette?

The main issue is that Toad would need to get in first. Toad is significant within the Mario series, yet he never got the same bandwagon that Waluigi/Geno did.

 

[fogbadge]

The main issue is that Toad would need to get in first. Toad is significant within the Mario series, yet he never got the same bandwagon that Waluigi/Geno did.

which is a shame cause theyre bigger parts of the franchise

 

[Deleted member]

Regarding the "character should be fun to play and gender isn't part of it", I honestly say that not everyone will share the same sentiment. Some people gravitate to characters they can relate to on a gender-based level. What I'm saying is that this won't hold true for everyone.

 

[Neoxon]

Regarding the "character should be fun to play and gender isn't part of it", I honestly say that not everyone will share the same sentiment. Some people gravitate to characters they can relate to on a gender-based level. What I'm saying is that this won't hold true for everyone.

Likewise, gender &/or ethnic diversity and being fun to play shouldn't be mutually exclusive. This is Sakurai we're talking about, he made a plant fun to play. I don't doubt him from a moveset standpoint.

 

[crazybenjamin]

which is a shame cause theyre bigger parts of the franchise

Toad's absence is pretty jarring.
If he does get in, I suppose it is entirely possible that he would also bring Toadette along.

 

[scoobymcsnack]

I think they've done a fine job representing WW with just Wario alone. I was open to Ashley until grown adult male lolicon artists threw a tantrum on twitter sending death threats to Sakurai. Now I hope she never gets in if I can be brutally honest.
.

I don't understand this logic at all. Why should you hope a character that people like and care about never gets because a few wackjobs took it way to far. People did with Waluigi, and I remember me being part of it and now greatly regret it, so I'm by no means perfect. It just doesn't make sense to me.

I don't know, the WarioWare cast is funny and all, but none of them really feel like they're iconic or important enough to be in Smash Bros., and they can't really get away with making them clones like with the additional Mother or Star Fox characters.

Iconic is a slippery slope, as it's this weird blend between objective and subjective ideas. And importance is a hard thing to quantify as well.
Besides, if those were all that mattered, we wouldn't have fan favorite characters like Ice Climbers.

To be fair, Intelligent Systems made the pivot after Fates came out. But the decision to stick with Male Corrin as the default in Smash Ultimate despite IS changing course kinda comes off as Sakurai pointlessly standing against the tide. Smash Wii U/3DS I can understand, as that decision was likely made before Sakurai could have known that Female Corrin was the more popular version of the character by a wide margin.

Honestly, I feel the only reason M!Corrin is the default in Ultimate is because he was in Smash 4. I feel like if they were added now, the female alt would probably be chosen.

Going by your logic, women & minorities are a part of gaming history as well. And Sakurai & Nintendo are ignoring a number of great options on that front. Women who can bring a lot to the table mechanically exist, they just aren't using them for whatever reason.

I wouldn't say Nintendo or Sakurai is ignoring them. Unless we have cold hard evidence for this fact, like Sakurai straight up admitting it or something, I don't think it's fair to make a claim like that.
These female/minority characters that Sakurai is "ignoring" have likely either never crossed his mind or have an actual reason to be not being included.

 

[Deleted member]

I wouldn't say Nintendo or Sakurai is ignoring them. Unless we have cold hard evidence for this fact, like Sakurai straight up admitting it or something, I don't think it's fair to make a claim like that.
These female/minority characters that Sakurai is "ignoring" have likely either never crossed his mind or have an actual reason to be not being included.

Actions speak louder than words. It's not directly admitting it;it's more or less implication.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't understand this logic at all. Why should you hope a character that people like and care about never gets because a few wackjobs took it way to far. People did with Waluigi, and I remember me being part of it and now greatly regret it, so I'm by no means perfect. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Because I'm a prick. A rather blunt one too. I probably hate Waluigi more tbh but the difference is between him and Ashley is that Wah's inclusion won't fuel the boner of borderline pedophiles. I don't want to feel this way either, like I said I was okay with the idea of her getting in but if it's just gonna offer more subject matter to some of these artists with repulsive and abhorrent sexual tastes, I don't want to entertain that. I'm sorry if nobody likes hearing this and I am sure there are a lot more legitimate Ashley fans that do want to see her inclusion that have harmless intent but those other guys left their mark on the fanbase with death threats and mental breakdowns. It just leaves a very very sour taste in my mouth when I think about her inclusion and I can't help it.

 

[crazybenjamin]

Because I'm a prick. A rather blunt one too. I probably hate Waluigi more tbh but the difference is between him and Ashley is that Wah's inclusion won't fuel the boner of borderline pedophiles. I don't want to feel this way either, like I said I was okay with the idea of her getting in but if it's just gonna offer more subject matter to some of these artists with repulsive and abhorrent sexual tastes, I don't want to entertain that. I'm sorry if nobody likes hearing this and I am sure there are a lot more legitimate Ashley fans that do want to see her inclusion that have harmless intent but those other guys left their mark on the fanbase with death threats and mental breakdowns. It just leaves a very very sour taste in my mouth when I think about her inclusion and I can't help it.

Over on GameFAQs, I've run into this one Ashley fan who is a never ending stream of bad takes. And his obsessions aren't limited to Ashley, he's actually a fan of Lana (Pokemon series) first and foremost
He made his own dream roster where he basically cut every character that he didn't like (including every single 3rd party) then replaced them with other characters that he seems to be obsessed with. When the roster was shared with Smashboards, the responses were:

Wow, this guys An *******

He really is. He's convinced Sakurai's only role in life is to snub "classic Nintendo icons" (such as Girl from Hajino no Mori and Lana from Pokemon), instead including Third Parties and Kid Icarus characters to "ruin the good name of Smash"

Okay what
Just
what?!

So what makes Sakurai leaps and bound better than this whiner is that:
1) Sakurai understands actual business practices, which is why third party characters are important
2) Sakurai made it a point to bring back literally everyone from previous Smash games. Meaning theoretically, he strives not to replace anybody but to only add more. The amount of work it would take for this man's dream roster now would be impossible without years of balancing, coding, modeling, stage building, item add-ons, etc. He's pretty much just ranting.

>Immediately the first character he suggests is Ashley, saying she "MUST be in the game, no question"
Welp, I guess that explains why he sounds like such a ****.

 

[Deleted member]

Because I'm a prick. A rather blunt one too. I probably hate Waluigi more tbh but the difference is between him and Ashley is that Wah's inclusion won't fuel the boner of borderline pedophiles. I don't want to feel this way either, like I said I was okay with the idea of her getting in but if it's just gonna offer more subject matter to some of these artists with repulsive and abhorrent sexual tastes, I don't want to entertain that. I'm sorry if nobody likes hearing this and I am sure there are a lot more legitimate Ashley fans that do want to see her inclusion that have harmless intent but those other guys left their mark on the fanbase with death threats and mental breakdowns. It just leaves a very very sour taste in my mouth when I think about her inclusion and I can't help it.

Eh? Is the character THAT sexualized in the fandom? Geez...this reminds me of a tweet that stated that he wanted more women just because the game needed more "waifus".

 

[Deleted member]

Eh? Is the character THAT sexualized in the fandom? Geez...this reminds me of a tweet that stated that he wanted more women just because the game needed more "waifus".

You have no idea how sexualized Smash fighters can be subjugated to. When a character gets announced for Smash, the amount of rule 34 that follows related to them just blows the hell up. Especially the females. Happened to Palutena, Wii Fit Trainer, Inkling, etc. and Ashley would be no exception. If anything, Ashley would probably get it the worst because she's a minor.

 

[Deleted member]

You have no idea how sexualized Smash fighters can be subjugated to. When a character gets announced for Smash, the amount of rule 34 that follows related to them just blows the hell up. Especially the females. Happened to Palutena, Wii Fit Trainer, Inkling, etc. and Ashley would be no exception. If anything, Ashley would probably get it the worst because she's a minor.

Oh well, the unfortunate effect of having a majorly male community. And it's the internet. Damn how much we've fallen.

But in all seriousness, it is unfortunate.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh well, the unfortunate effect of having a majorly male community. And it's the internet. Damn how much we've fallen.

But in all seriousness, it is unfortunate.

It ain't just the males though. There's a handful of female artists out there too that get off on the idea of young anime boys being boned by their own mothers. I don't necessarily see it as a male or female dominated community being a cancer to said community. It's just questionable and disgusting people whether they are male or female being a cancer to said community.

But yeah, you're right. It's the internet. Not much we can really do about it unfortunately.

 

[Ben Holt]

I found the problem.
Women need to straighten up before they ruin Smash Bros. too!
Warning, bad language:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=608583896565238&id=100022408990764