#UltimateDLCSoMale: The Female DLC Character Discussion

[Kokiden]

I think an important thing for people to consider regarding the skew in male-female protagonists in gaming, is not just the fact that there are generally more male gamers (though that does have a lot to do with it especially 30 years ago or so). But it has a lot to do with the "Hero" archetype being primarily male.

This has a lot to do with a man's primary role in society throughout history being hunters, soldiers, protectors, etc. While a women's role was more often a lot more passive and less dangerous. I am speaking generally as there are always outliers, but this is true most of the time throughout human history. As a result when developers create a hero character in an action adventure game, it is more than likely they would choose a male figure to best represent this archetype. A lot of fighting games have primarily male fighters since men are usually stronger and more aggressive than women and are pretty much always more likely to drop the gloves. The original street fighter for example was all men with Chun-Li being the one exception.

As time goes on developers have another motive for adding female representation in video games. Sex appeal. Lara Croft was one of the earliest examples of a female protagonist that had that exact draw of sex appeal since she was not only a major gaming icon but a sex symbol in the 90's, guys were obsessed with those low poly...assets. In the 90's developers started pushing more towards adding more prominent female characters and a very large percentage of them were made to appeal to men in this way, while they appealed to women by simply being women. This is likely due to the introduction of 3D which could allow more to be done. Of course fast forward a couple decades and we have characters like Bayonetta and 2B coming out the woodworks.

A lot of notable female protagonists overall don't have as much history as a lot of the male protagonists mainly because video game development started off in a fairly old fashioned way. And a lot of female protagonists are smaller indies compared to many big name male heroes. As a result when it comes to smash when looking at notable female characters have a harder time standing out from the crowd compared to the male characters simply because the male characters have had a bit of a head start.


With all that said when considering which female fighters that actually have a fighting chance in Ultimate's DLC (both first and third party) I think the shortlist looks something like this.

I think this is the most sensible and well put explanation as to why there are more male characters overall to choose from, than female.

There's a larger pool of popular male characters compared to their female counterparts.

2B would be a nice addition. Other than her, I can't think of anyone else who is the lead for a game that I want in. Lara Croft could be another but I'm not too particularly interested in her.

 

[Deleted member]

I think this is the most sensible and well put explanation as to why there are more male characters overall to choose from, than female.

There's a larger pool of popular male characters compared to their female counterparts.

2B would be a nice addition. Other than her, I can't think of anyone else who is the lead for a game that I want in. Lara Croft could be another but I'm not too particularly interested in her.

That is honestly the industry problem that's harming the female character's choices.

 

[Kokiden]

Personally I don't look at gender when it comes to this. I try to take gender out of the equation for most things because I've always thought incorporating gender, race, etc leads to bias in the way of wanting to fulfil a quota just for the sake of it.

What's important is the character is exciting, and fun to play as.

 

[Deleted member]

Personally I don't look at gender when it comes to this. I try to take gender out of the equation for most things because I've always thought incorporating gender, race, etc leads to bias in the way of wanting to fulfil a quota just for the sake of it.

What's important is the character is exciting, and fun to play as.

Gender does quite do a thing as well. People sometimes desire to buy media with people they can relate. Not that it refers to the entire community anyway.

 

[Kokiden]

That is honestly the industry problem that's harming the female character's choices.

Yeah it's an industry wide issue, so it's not exactly Smash's fault for having a small pool of female characters to choose from.

I'm just happy we're getting a second set of DLC characters honestly. If it's going to be another 5, out of 10 characters, surely there would be at least 1 female. I'd be shocked if they leave them out entirely.

 

[Kokiden]

Gender does quite do a thing as well. People sometimes desire to buy media with people they can relate. Not that it refers to the entire community anyway.

Being female myself, I love that Bayonetta exists at all. Badass, powerful, in control, and confident. Her being in Smash makes me quite happy, so you're quite right.

It's out of our hands unfortunately, but it all depends on whether the devs are aware that popular female characters do exist. Tifa, 2B, Jill, Lara, etc. There's a lot to choose from.

Whether they think these characters are more worthy compared to the other male competition is another matter entirely.

 

[Teeb147]

There's people who want more females. It can be part of the criteria. It's as simple as that :D (something valued to a good extent, at least)

 

[TheYungLink]

People have brought it up before, but if people can want certain characters because, at least in part, they're villains, or sidekicks, or from specific series like DK and Metroid, then wanting characters because they're women is perfectly natural and understandable.

It's not like female characters would only get in because they're female, either. That's not what this thread is really about, and I get more and more tired every day of the boogeymen saying that that's all the want for female characters amounts to.

 

[Oddball]

What would your reaction be in a hypothetical scenario where the second round of DLC characters were Waluigi, Geno, Bandanna Dee, Dixie Kong and Twintelle?

There's nobody there I'm really excited about and two characters that I actively DON'T want to see. Waluigi would be the best of the group, but over all the list lacks any real "WOW!" to it. They're safe choices and not particularly interesting characters.

 

[Teeb147]

I think everyone would have different levels of what they feel is a good amount to have. The less you have of a certain kind of character you think would be nice to have in the game, the more value you'll put on it. It's just like anything, how much value is it to you before it becomes important and something to look for.

It's a given that a character shouldn't be added in smash 'just' because they're female. But it's something they could look for when they value characters, when it'd be a time to add one, whether for diversity or the crowd that wants some, it's worth something. Just like how sakurai looked for a different kind of character when he felt he'd put enough sword characters in (I'm referring to what he said about piranha plant).


There are plenty of popular female characters to look at, and some like Tracer and Lara Croft would actually be super recognizable. They're not my personal favorites, but I think any that people enjoy would be good.

 

[Deleted member]

Most of the points I would say here have been brought up by others here, so i'm kinda having a hard time on what to say right now..

 

[Neoxon]

What would your reaction be in a hypothetical scenario where the second round of DLC characters were Waluigi, Geno, Bandanna Dee, Dixie Kong and Twintelle?

*sees Waluigi* Eh. I'm not a huge fan of Waluigi personally, so I'm not sure if I'd go along with.....
*also sees Twintelle & Dixie Kong*

 

[Khao]

Gonna puke a few more thoughts. Feel free to respond to them and to question my morals and intelligence.

Something I'm seeing a lot is the suggestion for secondary characters from already existing franchises and all I can say is... Do you understand that until now they've been focusing on adding new franchises to the series? Sakurai said as much, the focus is to use the DLC as a chance to bring more worlds together. We're likely not going to see Dixie Kong, or Chun Li, or Elma, or pretty much anyone from a currently represented series. At least, that hasn't been the focus so far.

However, the second wave of DLC characters could turn things around. Only the first fighters pass was decided before the game's release, meaning that the context of the selection of the characters after that was completely different. Even the people involved in the selection might be different. But bear in mind that Sakurai mentioned that he's extending DLC because he wants to see more gaming worlds being brought together. So expect new franchises, not secondary characters from existing ones.

Still, with that in mind, I agree that there's plenty of good choices. Lara Croft is the most obvious one to me. I feel like a lot of people underplay how famous and iconic she is. Even non gamers know who she is. My mother knows who she is, and she probably couldn't tell you the names of half the characters in Smash 64. The only question is whether or not you could make a solid moveset for her, but if Sakurai wanted it to happen, he'd find a way.

Before the second wave of DLC I saw Shantae as an impossibility, mostly due to her spirit. A lot of people mock the idea of spirits meaning deconfirmations, but to be completely honest I thought most of their arguments were unreasonable. DLC was decided before release. If there were plans to add someone like Shantae, including her spirit in the game before release would be counter-productive. The second wave of DLC changes that, though, as the selection of characters is new, and the fact that they even considered her for a spirit in the first place says a lot. I don't think it'll happen personally, but it'd be a solid addition.

I'd love to see someone like Tracer from Overwatch too. Buuuuuuuut with Jeff Kaplan openly talking about it? Yeah, It's not happening. If it was, he'd be quiet.

What else do we have? Alloy from Horizon Zero Dawn exists, although it's kind of too new of a series and it's a PS exclusive, though the later is less and less of an obstacle.

The Monster Hunter series also has close ties to Nintendo, and lacks a playable fighter despite having a non-protagonist assist trophy/boss, which is kind of unprecedented. MH protagonists can be of either gender, and a female Monster Hunter was already used in Marvel VS Capcom. If it happened, we'd have to see which gender is chosen. Or if they'll use both, in which case we'd have to see which gender is used by default (which is important if you ask me). Would you settle for a MH character that is female by default but has a male alt? Or is something more directly female needed?

 

[Marmotbro]

Honestly gender doesn't matter to me. The rest of the DLC could be all male, all female, doesn't make a difference.

What matters is are the characters fun and cool, and the only females i can think of that we don't have and would be fun and cool in smash are Monster Hunter and Hat Kid.

I don't understand wanting characters (or a type of character) in for sake of diversity, especially in a game as diverse as smash.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

People have brought it up before, but if people can want certain characters because, at least in part, they're villains, or sidekicks, or from specific series like DK and Metroid, then wanting characters because they're women is perfectly natural and understandable.

It's not like female characters would only get in because they're female, either. That's not what this thread is really about, and I get more and more tired every day of the boogeymen saying that that's all the want for female characters amounts to.

Spoiler: A very long explanation of why I agree with you

There's a fine line between wanting a character because of the role they fill in-game (villain, sidekick, etc.) than because of their gender. Most video games with at least somewhat of a story are driven by at least one protagonist and antagonist, and side characters or other major characters come after. All this is done regardless of the characters genders. There could be a game with a great story and all of the characters are nonbinary. It would still have heroes, villains, and sidekicks, but gender plays no role in the deign of the characters. And if people wanted those characters to be in Smash, it would be because of the roll they play in-game. Roles that characters play in-game are infinitely more important than trivial issues like gender.

What I'm trying to say is I totally agree with you. Wanting character because of gender is totally fine and understandable. People should naturally want media to appeal to their demographic. But when this becomes forced, that creates tokenism. There's a difference between "I want this character in the game because their female, and I enjoy the character and find them appealing" and "I want the next Smash character to be female so as to fill a quota." Demanding characters for the purpose of fulfilling an imaginary checklist of who's represented and who isn't takes away from the appeal and focus of the character that was actually added and reduces everything good about them down to simple traits brought into the game only to meet a quota.

Moving on, this is why it's impossible for adding villains/sidekicks/etc. to create tokenism. Video game stories are almost always bent around a conflict between two or more characters/things. Antagonists are essential to video game story design because without them, it's much harder for the story writers to develop a status quo for the protagonist. Almost every lead character in Smash has an villain that creates a conflict of interest between them and drives the story. Some of these villains have yet to be in Smash. M. Bison and Dr. Eggman are two great examples. When people want these characters in the game, it's not because they need to fill a box or satisfy a checklist, it's because they naturally compliment already existing fighters. This in no way suggests that all females are forced tokens. I'd say so far no female newcomer in Smash has been forced in.

I'm not saying this because I feel as if the thread is forcing tokenism anymore, but there were still a few posts that are now buried several pages into the thread that attempted to point out the irony between people wanting villains/sidekicks and people wanting females. One post in particular IIRC mocked people for acting defensive when people propose females for Smash when those same people ask for villains/sidekicks, despite gender and story role being two completely different things.

 

[TheYungLink]

Spoiler: A very long explanation of why I agree with you

There's a fine line between wanting a character because of the role they fill in-game (villain, sidekick, etc.) than because of their gender. Most video games with at least somewhat of a story are driven by at least one protagonist and antagonist, and side characters or other major characters come after. All this is done regardless of the characters genders. There could be a game with a great story and all of the characters are nonbinary. It would still have heroes, villains, and sidekicks, but gender plays no role in the deign of the characters. And if people wanted those characters to be in Smash, it would be because of the roll they play in-game. Roles that characters play in-game are infinitely more important than trivial issues like gender.

What I'm trying to say is I totally agree with you. Wanting character because of gender is totally fine and understandable. People should naturally want media to appeal to their demographic. But when this becomes forced, that creates tokenism. There's a difference between "I want this character in the game because their female, and I enjoy the character and find them appealing" and "I want the next Smash character to be female so as to fill a quota." Demanding characters for the purpose of fulfilling an imaginary checklist of who's represented and who isn't takes away from the appeal and focus of the character that was actually added and reduces everything good about them down to simple traits brought into the game only to meet a quota.

Moving on, this is why it's impossible for adding villains/sidekicks/etc. to create tokenism. Video game stories are almost always bent around a conflict between two or more characters/things. Antagonists are essential to video game story design because without them, it's much harder for the story writers to develop a status quo for the protagonist. Almost every lead character in Smash has an villain that creates a conflict of interest between them and drives the story. Some of these villains have yet to be in Smash. M. Bison and Dr. Eggman are two great examples. When people want these characters in the game, it's not because they need to fill a box or satisfy a checklist, it's because they naturally compliment already existing fighters. This in no way suggests that all females are forced tokens. I'd say so far no female newcomer in Smash has been forced in.

I'm not saying this because I feel as if the thread is forcing tokenism anymore, but there were still a few posts that are now buried several pages into the thread that attempted to point out the irony between people wanting villains/sidekicks and people wanting females. One post in particular IIRC mocked people for acting defensive when people propose females for Smash when those same people ask for villains/sidekicks, despite gender and story role being two completely different things.

You're not enlightening anyone with this explanation. I don't think you posted this with bad intent, but you still made this post with the assumption that some people in this thread only want women because of tokenism in order to agree with me in a way that is backhanded to other people in the thread. You said "I'm not saying this because I feel as if the thread is forcing tokenism anymore," but what you do you mean "anymore"? Pretty much every major female character want that's been expressed in this thread are all main characters in some way, whether they be antagonists or important side characters or protagonists or whoever. And if someone did just say "I want more female characters," then when they were asked for who specifically, they always gave a specific female character who was important as one of those three story roles.

One post in particular IIRC mocked people for acting defensive when people propose females for Smash when those same people ask for villains/sidekicks, despite gender and story role being two completely different things.

Your assumption about that post is wrong. You should not take that statement on the face of it and should read what's implied, which is that "wanting women would mean wanting women who are villains / sidekicks, if not the protagonist themselves". The reason people both in and out of this thread specify "women" first before "villain / sidekick" is because Smash already has a lot of the latter, and most of them are male, so it would be nice to see more heroes / sidekicks / villains who are women, and specifying "women" before those qualifiers is a fast way to make your point.

Like I said in an earlier post, if you start with "people want more women in Smash" and then go from there, limiting your choices to women...you're STILL naturally gonna go with either a protagonist, an antagonist, or an important side character, just like pretty much everyone else already in Smash. Plenty of great ones, too. I already listed a bunch and I don't feel like relisting them so I'll say that if anyone else posts in this thread with "I want more women in Smash!" and you kindly ask "Ooh, who in particular do you want?" then they're gonna fill one of those three story roles.

It's not like female characters would only get in because they're female, either. That's not what this thread is really about, and I get more and more tired every day of the boogeymen saying that that's all the want for female characters amounts to.

To clarify: ultimately I don't think anyone who says "I want / it would be nice to see more women in Smash" needs to change their wording to always specify "But don't worry! You don't have to be scared! The women I want are gonna be important, I promise!" because that should be taken a given with those posts.

If my reply was a bit harsh to you, my apologies, but even if you meant well with this reply I needed to let you know that your mindset toward the posters in this thread does not paint the entire picture.

 

[GillyGrime]

Dixie Kong is my most wanted, and I'm rooting for Shantae, Elma and Tetra as well. We're far from running out of interesting female fighting candidates, all these characters are well deserving in my opinion. I've also always thought Tifa or Terra would be far more appealing than Sephiroth (the most suggested 2nd FF rep beside maybe Black Mage). And Ms Pacman and Octolings seemed like missed echo opportunities.

There's plenty of badass girls missing, and I've got a good feeling about the future DLC, despite the issue of most video game protagonists being male. Why some people think that wanting more girls is scraping the barrel is beyond me.

 

[Deleted member]

Dixie Kong is my most wanted, and I'm rooting for Shantae, Elma and Tetra as well. We're far from running out of interesting female fighting candidates, all these characters are well deserving in my opinion. I've also always thought Tifa or Terra would be far more appealing than Sephiroth (the most suggested 2nd FF rep beside maybe Black Mage). And Ms Pacman and Octolings seemed like missed echo opportunities.

There's plenty of badass girls missing, and I've got a good feeling about the future DLC, despite the issue of most video game protagonists being male. Why some people think that wanting more girls is scraping the barrel is beyond me.

Wanting females is technically the same as wanting characters, companies, etc. All of them come with their own criticisms.

 

[GillyGrime]

Wanting females is technically the same as wanting characters, companies, etc. All of them come with their own criticisms.

Thing is, I don't want these characters specifically just because they're female, I want them because I love the characters themselves, their design and/or their moveset potential. Them being female is more a of a secondary welcome bonus.

I also forgot Amaterasu from Okami, she would make for an insanely unique moveset and is such a sleeper potential Capcom choice.

 

[Kokiden]

I said it earlier, but it comes down to the female character being overshadowed by their male counterparts, not the lack of good female characters.

For example, Resident Evil. Chris or Jill? They're more likely to choose Chris.

Street Fighter Chun Li is insanely popular, but Ken was chosen even though he's a clone of Ryu because he was deemed the better representative for SF.

One thing that is holding back female characters from being chosen is the popular ones are secondary cast members, and because of this, the main lead for a series, usually a male, will get chosen every time.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Street Fighter Chun Li is insanely popular, but Ken was chosen even though he's a clone of Ryu because he was deemed the better representative for SF.

Ken was chosen because he was a clone, not because he was deemed a better representative.

 

[Kokiden]

Ken was chosen because he was a clone, not because he was deemed a better representative.

I stand corrected, but my original point still stands.

If a female isn't the main character in that series, she's likely to not get chosen, which is a shame. I'd like to be proven wrong, but we're going to have to see how the future DLC will play out.

 

[TheYungLink]

For example, Resident Evil. Chris or Jill? They're more likely to choose Chris.

For what it's worth, most people I know would rather have Jill or Leon, and Chris only sometimes comes up. The former two are the most liked protagonists in Resident Evil / Biohazard and I'd be cool with either of them, but I'm hoping they're post pass DLC because, since the Fighter's Pass won't have any Echo Fighters, that way we can have a Simon / Richter situation where both are introduced, with one being an echo of the other. And obviously this way we get a woman for DLC to shake things up a bit.

 

[Kokiden]

For what it's worth, most people I know would rather have Jill or Leon, and Chris only sometimes comes up. The former two are the most liked protagonists in Resident Evil / Biohazard and I'd be cool with either of them, but I'm hoping they're post pass DLC because, since the Fighter's Pass won't have any Echo Fighters, that way we can have a Simon / Richter situation where both are introduced, with one being an echo of the other. And obviously this way we get a woman for DLC to shake things up a bit.

I see more demands for Leon and Jill too. Jill more actually.

I'd imagine if Chris does get in, people would be disappointed since Leon and Jill would've been better choices, and rightly so.

 

[Ben Holt]

Men definitely have issues. It's just that you are unaware of them.

• The male suicide rate is 3.5x higher than women's [1]
• Only 1 in 6 divorced fathers have primary custody of their children [2]
• Men are portrayed in media as violent, sexually deviant predators, or as incompetent parents, workers & caretakers [3] [4]
• 93% of workplace fatalities are men [5]
• Men are 2 to 3 times more likely than women to suffer from a substance abuse disorder [6]
• 78% of murder victims are men [7]
• The homeless population is over 70% male [8]
• Men's life expectancy is 5 years shorter than women's [9]
• More than 10% fewer men than women attend college and those men that do are more likely to drop out [10]
• 56% of boys will undergo genital mutilation in the form of circumcision [11]
• Access to certain government benefits is denied to men unless they register for the draft [12]
• Men account for more than 93% of inmates in the U.S., and are incarcerated at a rate 14x higher than women [13]
• A man will receive 63% harsher sentencing than a woman for an identical crime with identical criminal history [14]

(https://rockymountainmra.com/introduction)

No race or gender gets a free pass to an easy life. You may think that some do, but that is just because you do not understand them enough to empathise with them.

And women are hardly a minority. If they were then they would be lucky because it would mean that it would be easier for them to find a mate.

This thread is for female representation in Smash Bros., not solving all the world's ills.
Here's the spot for that:
https://smashboards.com/forums/serious-discussion.206/

 

[Deleted member]

This thread is for female representation in Smash Bros., not solving all the world's ills.
Here's the spot for that:
https://smashboards.com/forums/serious-discussion.206/

Whoever posted this surely went off-topic here. All we're discussing here is getting a female rep in the DLC and they bring feminist issues up. Shameful.

 

[1FC0]

This thread is for female representation in Smash Bros., not solving all the world's ills.

That discussion has already ended on the previous page, is it really important enough to be brought up again?

 

[Neoxon]

Just a heads-up, if we get to Character #90 (counting echoes) with no new characters who are primarily women, the female fighters ratio of Smash Ultimate will equal that of Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite ([15/90] * 100 = 16.667 = [6/36] * 100). Anymore guys past that will put Smash below MvCI in this regard.

 

[Deleted member]

Just a heads-up, if we get to Character #90 (counting echoes) with no new characters who are primarily women, the female fighters ratio of Smash Ultimate will equal that of Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite ([15/90] * 100 = 16.667 = [6/36] * 100). Anymore guys past that will put Smash below MvCI in this regard.

This is gonna give me nightmares that will scar me for the rest of my Smash career. Though people would start complaining at that point. People will talk about it, other fighting game communities would talk about it, and there's gonna be a stigma that Smash won't be made with the female demographic in mind. It sucks to be a feminist in this game.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I'm still rather certain we're gonna at least get few female reps tbh. 1, 2 maybe even 3. Could be even more actually depending if the 16 WoL slots are indeed true.

Dixie Kong, Edelgard, Lara Croft (Still feel her chances are being underestimated) are ones I see were notably getting.

 

[Neoxon]

This is gonna give me nightmares that will scar me for the rest of my Smash career. Though people would start complaining at that point. People will talk about it, other fighting game communities would talk about it, and there's gonna be a stigma that Smash won't be made with the female demographic in mind. It sucks to be a feminist in this game.

Assuming that we get 3 seasons of DLC, the female fighter percentage would be at 16.304% if every DLC character going forward is primarily a guy.

 

[Marmotbro]

This is gonna give me nightmares that will scar me for the rest of my Smash career. Though people would start complaining at that point. People will talk about it, other fighting game communities would talk about it, and there's gonna be a stigma that Smash won't be made with the female demographic in mind. It sucks to be a feminist in this game.

Smash already has great representation, getting worked up about filling a quota of a certain type of character isn't something you should waste your energy on.

Plus, adding characters just to fill a quota wouldn't give us anything except the ability to say "look at our numbers! We are progressive and diverse!", and doesn't that seem kinda fake and pointless when you do that?

 

[Neoxon]

Smash already has great representation, getting worked up about filling a quota of a certain type of character isn't something you should waste your energy on.

Plus, adding characters just to fill a quota wouldn't give us anything except the ability to say "look at our numbers! We are progressive and diverse!", and doesn't that seem kinda fake and pointless when you do that?

The point is that there are iconic women in gaming, and the fact that Smash isn’t bothering to pull from the options available is disappointing. And to be honest, I’m not really sure I can call Smash diverse outside of movesets & history.

 

[Marmotbro]

The point is that there are iconic women in gaming, and the fact that Smash isn’t bothering to pull from the options available is disappointing. And to be honest, I’m not really sure I can call Smash diverse outside of movesets & history.

Sure, but you gotta keep in mind there are other factors that keep characters out. Lara Croft? Sure, she's cool, but i don't see how they could give her an interesting moveset. 2B? Lol CERO. I feel like a lot of female characters share this same problem of translating into smash (not to say there aren't girls who would be great in smash), but the point I'm making is soccerguy is gonna put in who he wants, he's done great with the DLC so far, and i doubt the number of females is so much as an afterthought. Having the mindset of "we need more females because they are female" is not a realistic way to look at this.
And smash not diverse, are you kidding me? You can play as men, women, monkeys, an alligator, balls, robots, whatever the hell is, seems pretty diverse.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Sure, but you gotta keep in mind there are other factors that keep characters out. Lara Croft? Sure, she's cool, but i don't see how they could give her an interesting moveset.

They gave a moveset to Mr. Game & Watch, Wii Fit Trainer, Duck Hunt, and a Piranha Plant.

 

[Marmotbro]

They gave a moveset to Mr. Game & Watch, Wii Fit Trainer, Duck Hunt, and a Piranha Plant.

Yeah, they sure did, and they also didn't put in Excitebike in melee because they couldn't think of a moveset.

 

[Night Gale]

Sure, but you gotta keep in mind there are other factors that keep characters out. Lara Croft? Sure, she's cool, but i don't see how they could give her an interesting moveset.

It's a good thing that the Super Smash developers do their research, because I'm tired of people commenting on Lara as if she doesn't have a plethora of attacks at her disposal from her several appearances. Dual pistols aside, my betch has a motorcycle, Excalibur, The Spear of Destiny, AND Mjolnir (Thor's Hammer) in her possession and you can't think of anything interesting? She has summoned the undead before. Hell, her bow and arrow has a rope attached to it that doubles as a zipline. She can have a crafting mechanic that includes creating and managing smoke/incendiary bombs, shrapnel grenades, and poisonous gas mines. She can set things on fire with a torch. Wall jumping and clinging is one thing but nobody wall climbs. All of this and she has her own style of athleticism not present in the game. You lack imagination.

2B? Lol CERO.

Cero's main problem is visible panties. It is a non-issue because Smash Bros. has proven it is willing to use workarounds for its playable characters. I highly doubt that wardrobe is a determining factor. We have a half-naked Shulk costume ffs.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Yeah, they sure did, and they also didn't put in Excitebike in melee because they couldn't think of a moveset.

Good thing Lara Croft doesn't have to have a bike in her moveset. Holy strawman, Batman!

 

[Marmotbro]

It's a good thing that the Super Smash developers do their research, because I'm tired of people commenting on Lara as if she doesn't have a plethora of attacks at her disposal from her several appearances. Dual pistols aside, my betch has a motorcycle, Excalibur, The Spear of Destiny, AND Mjolnir (Thor's Hammer) in her possession and you can't think of anything interesting? She has summoned the undead before. Hell, her bow and arrow has a rope attached to it that doubles as a zipline. She can have a crafting mechanic that includes creating and managing smoke/incendiary bombs, shrapnel grenades, and poisonous gas mines. She can set things on fire with a torch. Wall jumping and clinging is one thing but nobody wall climbs. All of this and she has her own style of athleticism not present in the game. You lack imagination.

Fair enough, and I admit if i did research i could probably come up with a moveset for her if given enough time, but when I think of Lara i don't think of her swinging Mjolnir or Excalibur around, just how when I think of Mario i don't think of him racing a RC carl or turning into a Bee. If Lara was in the game, I doubt she would have those things. She would use guns and acrobatics, or if its nu-Lara a bow and the climbing pick. But sure, maybe she was a bad example.

Cero's main problem is visible panties. It is a non-issue because Smash Bros. has proven it is willing to use workarounds for its playable characters. I highly doubt that wardrobe is a determining factor.

Mai is literally not in the game because CERO and tooby is just as lewd if not more.

 

[Neoxon]

Fair enough, and I admit if i did research i could probably come up with a moveset for her if given enough time, but when I think of Lara i don't think of her swinging Mjolnir or Excalibur around, just how when I think of Mario i don't think of him racing a RC carl or turning into a Bee. If Lara was in the game, I doubt she would have those things. She would use guns and acrobatics, or if its nu-Lara a bow and the climbing pick. But sure, maybe she was a bad example.




Mai is literally not in the game because CERO and tooby is just as lewd if not more.

Mai is meant to appeal to multiple fetishes at once, & modifying her design would be a ton of effort for a background character. At least with 2B, all you need to do is give her tights & make the slit of her skirt smaller, which would be a reasonable amount of effort for what would hypothetically be a playable character.