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#UltimateDLCSoMale: The Female DLC Character Discussion

Should we have at least one female newcomer in the DLC?


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Night Gale

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Fair enough, and I admit if i did research i could probably come up with a moveset for her if given enough time, but when I think of Lara i don't think of her swinging Mjolnir or Excalibur around, just how when I think of Mario i don't think of him racing a RC carl or turning into a Bee. If Lara was in the game, I doubt she would have those things. She would use guns and acrobatics, or if its nu-Lara a bow and the climbing pick. But sure, maybe she was a bad example.
Tomb Raider is in the name, bruh. Collecting artifacts is an integral part of who Lara Croft is. Your Mario example is a poor comparison.

Mai is literally not in the game because CERO and tooby is just as lewd if not more.
2B is almost fully covered wtf are you talking about?



It's way easier to hide her panties than this:

A redesign of that magnitude would have been a lot of work for a cameo.
 
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1FC0

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And smash not diverse, are you kidding me? You can play as men, women, monkeys, an alligator, balls, robots, whatever the hell :ultgnw: is, seems pretty diverse.
Smash Bros is not balanced, but it definitely is diverse. Adding women won't necessarily increase diversity much, just gender balance.

They gave a moveset to Mr. Game & Watch, Wii Fit Trainer, Duck Hunt, and a Piranha Plant.
In addition they gave a moveset to C. Falcon which gave them almost nothing to work with. It really does not matter, any character could have a moveset made up for them. Sakurai often said about some character(s) that they were not in Smash because it was hard to find a good moveset for them and later they got included anyway and it was fine. I'm still baffled that people ever thought Ridley was too big. Any character can get in Smash and work fine. The Smash dev team can just makes up a moveset from related games or based on the characters general properties if they must. They can scale, nerf, buff, change poses; there is always a way to make it work. Ice Climbers were nothing but sprites, but they worked fine because the dev team just improvised. Same with Pit.

Tomb Raider would definitely fit in the game. And they could make up plenty of fitting gimmicks to make her unique.
 
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Celaris

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2B is almost fully covered wtf are you talking about?



It's way easier to hide her panties than this:
The problem isn't really how naked is a character is, i mean you already mentioned Shulk but i believe it's about how "suggestive" it s in terms and 2Bs outfit is all about teasing her ass at the player throughout her entire play through. In Mai's case, her chest and sex appeal is part of her fighting style along with the fact they move with the wind at every occasion.

Not to mention, Yoko Taro himself probably wouldn't allow it, that guy is pretty much "horny on main" personified, and would take any opportunity to flaunt 2B. Also don't forget Mai could've easily been censored but wasn't due to the fact it wouldn't have been Mai anymore. Sakurai absolutely loves SNK so he wanted to represent it as accurately as possible. 2Bs outfit, and her butt are quite literally the only reason why she's popular in the first place, not to mention the hell that could follow if they change it anyway.

A bit off-topic: I'm fine with almost anyone joining the game as long as 2B isn't 1 of them. She's had next to no impact in gaming (except for porn), has never been affiliated with nintendo, and the Nier/drakengard series is really niche. There's next to no reason why she should get in over anyone at all (obviously not counting whether or not Sakurai wants the character, but we could make that argument for pretty much anyone).
 

Night Gale

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A character being suggestive isn't going to boost the ratings; we have goddamn Bayonetta. These are Yoko Taro's words when asked if he would like to see 2B in Super Smash; the man is smart enough to understand what that would imply.

Yoko Taro said:
Definitely. Any collaboration, actually. If any of my characters could be in another game, then I’d definitely like to see that.
I'm guessing that you know nothing about 2B as a character or her game series. Saying her only impact in gaming is pornography when she comes from a game that received universal acclaim is seriously selling the character short. Her franchise should get in based off of its musical contributions alone imo. Keep that ignorant, sexist **** out of here.

Even Masahiro Sakurai disagrees with you.
 
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Smash Bros is not balanced, but it definitely is diverse. Adding women won't necessarily increase diversity much, just gender balance
Diverse and gender balance are two different things in their entirety. Diversity is something we can ideally achieve and get, but balance is pretty much in a stiff position. Due to the demographic of Smash, the ideal gender ratio may not be achieved, but is still wirth noting to take into consideration.
 

Celaris

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A character being suggestive isn't going to boost the ratings; we have goddamn Bayonetta. These are Yoko Taro's words when asked if he would like to see 2B in Super Smash; the man is smart enough to understand what that would imply.



I'm guessing that you know nothing about 2B as a character or her game series. Saying her only impact in gaming is pornography when she comes from a game that received universal acclaim is seriously selling the character short. Her franchise should get in based off of its musical contributions alone imo. Keep that ignorant, sexist **** out of here.

Even Masahiro Sakurai disagrees with you.
I said the 2B the character, i didn't say absolutely anything about her game, I'm talking exclusively about the character. Anyone who's played Nier would know it doesn't need fan service to see why it's such a really good game (don't put words in my mouth, 2B is nowhere near the reason why the game is considered so great, she's barely a character in the first place, she's insanely boring, bland, and generic in every department that isn't her Design or her Voice Actor. Also source that Yoko Taro quote, otherwise i don't believe you.

Bayo was censored HEAVILY in it. I don't know why anyone tries to argue Mai not being in by saying "bUt BaYoNeTta" it's quite obviously not the same since Bayo doesn't lose her identity if she's censored. Unlike Mai who's iconic for her outfit, and 2B who's literally only popular for aesthetics, **Again i'm only referring to 2B, not Nier Automata the game**

Just because she's from a good game doesn't mean she should get into smash, Sakurai also called Horizon Zero Dawn a masterpiece, It must mean Alloy should be added
 
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Night Gale

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I prefer A2 actually, but 2B's characterization was well-received by others and she isn't only liked because of pornography. She was relevant to the plot and turned out to be more complex than I prepared for. She's way better than a lot of bland protagonists and self-insert avatars found in Super Smash at least. She's from a good ass game, no pun intended, and she's popular and likable for one reason or another and has a flashy fighting style so why the hell not? I can't believe you made me defend this betch because I personally don't care about her much lol. If it were up to me we'd get A2, Emil, or 9S. You are seriously selling her short though if you reduce her down to her appearance. Please allow me to reiterate, bruh. Keep that ignorant, sexist **** out of here.

Source: https://www.dualshockers.com/nier-automata-interview-yoko-taro/

Aloy would be sick as hell but Sony's gonna Sony.
 
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Ben Holt

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Diverse and gender balance are two different things in their entirety. Diversity is something we can ideally achieve and get, but balance is pretty much in a stiff position. Due to the demographic of Smash, the ideal gender ratio may not be achieved, but is still wirth noting to take into consideration.
I don't think it's the demographic so much as the pool of available characters.
Whereas Street Fighter and Tekken can just make new female fighters from the ground up, Smash has to choose from existing characters, and if you compile a list of all major video game characters, it will be AT LEAST 70% male.
That's just from history. If you want, I can tell you the entire story of how video games became associated with boys.
Unfortunately, there's a reason why gamer boys are seen as losers and gamer girls are seen as the pinnacle of sexuality.
 
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I don't think it's the demographic so much as the pool of available characters.
Whereas Street Fighter and Tekken can just make new female fighters from the ground up, Smash has to choose from existing characters, and if you compile a list of all major video game characters, it will be AT LEAST 70% male.
That's just from history. If you want, I can tell you the entire story of how video games became associated with boys.
Unfortunately, there's a reason why gamer boys are seen as losers and gamer girls are seen as the pinnacle of sexuality.
That is unfortunately a thing. How I see it, I feel that female fighters are being left out in favor of the male, because that's what gaming history has been dedicated to. But in all honesty, the times have changed, and now we women want a character we can identify ourselves with so we can play together with the males.

History is written by the winners as they say.
 

Pwnz0rz Man

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That is unfortunately a thing. How I see it, I feel that female fighters are being left out in favor of the male, because that's what gaming history has been dedicated to. But in all honesty, the times have changed, and now we women want a character we can identify ourselves with so we can play together with the males.

History is written by the winners as they say.
Do you sincerely think they're intentionally leaving female characters out of the games because gaming is essentially a boy's club? That's ridiculous. If these characters have a big enough draw, they're not a massive pain in the ass to get, and could be interesting, chances are they can be put in Smash.

You don't need to have the same gender, physical capacity, age, skin color, or even species in order to identify with a character. If a character has something in them that speaks to you, you can identify with them.
 
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Do you sincerely think they're intentionally leaving female characters out of the games because gaming is essentially a boy's club? That's ridiculous. If these characters have a big enough draw, they're not a massive pain in the ass to get, and could be interesting, chances are they can be put in Smash.

You don't need to have the same gender, physical capacity, age, skin color, or even species in order to identify with a character. If a character has something in them that speaks to you, you can identify with them.
That's how I see it. That's my interpretation of the situation. How I see it, they're being left out. It's not like they're not chosen because they are female. I believe Sakurai understands the female demographic well to at least include one. We had Bayo in Smash 4. I would want one in Ultimate as well.
 

Marmotbro

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Tomb Raider is in the name, bruh. Collecting artifacts is an integral part of who Lara Croft is. Your Mario example is a poor comparison.
Alright, you've sold me. You are clearly a fan of the character, and you have proved my point. Lara is not just a quota to you, her inclusion would mean more than just a female getting in, and that's what we should look for.


2B's panty shots are a game of angles and you know it, i could give you a pic that helps my argument but there happens to be children around currently.
 
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Alright, you've sold me. You are clearly a fan of the character, and you have proved my point. Lara is not just a quota to you, her inclusion would mean more than just a female getting in, and that's what we should look for.
Lara is honestly the quintessential female rep to get into Smash at this point.
 

Ben Holt

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Alright, you've sold me. You are clearly a fan of the character, and you have proved my point. Lara is not just a quota to you, her inclusion would mean more than just a female getting in, and that's what we should look for.


2B's panty shots are a game of angles and you know it, i could give you a pic that helps my argument but there happens to be children around currently.
I don't think anyone's backing a character simply to fill a quota.
I don't think Tomb Raider became a legendary series because of "girl power".
 
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I don't think anyone's backing a character simply to fill a quota.
I don't think Tomb Raider became a legendary series because of "girl power".
Quota, quotas, quotas. I've heard that statement so many times in this thread I'd start a drinking game for it, even though I never drink.

I'm the one here aiming for female representation. I just want more females, that is all. My goal was never to fill a quota or anything.

Tomb Raider...is a mixed bag for me. One hand says it is popular due to the handling of representing women, another tells me how she influenced female representation.
 

Pwnz0rz Man

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That's how I see it. That's my interpretation of the situation. How I see it, they're being left out. It's not like they're not chosen because they are female. I believe Sakurai understands the female demographic well to at least include one. We had Bayo in Smash 4. I would want one in Ultimate as well.
It sounded like you were saying that because the other characters happened to be male, it made them a priority, so if that's not what you were intended, apologies. If they're important enough characters, I'm sure they have just as much of a chance to get in as any other gaming icon.

Far as I'm concerned, the only thing that matters is history and playstyle. Personally, I'd rather see Reimu Hakurei than Lara Croft. They've existed about the same amount of time, but Reimu just looks more interesting, and I like her games more. Just...for the love of god, don't let ZUN do the art for her.
 
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Far as I'm concerned, the only thing that matters is history and playstyle. Personally, I'd rather see Reimu Hakurei than Lara Croft. They've existed about the same amount of time, but Reimu just looks more interesting, and I like her games more. Just...for the love of god, don't let ZUN do the art for her.
I would be curious myself as to how Nintendo will do her art justice, since imo Touhou art isn't the best, but it's acceptable. Just finidng it hard to translate into Smash's 3D format.
 

Pwnz0rz Man

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I would be curious myself as to how Nintendo will do her art justice, since imo Touhou art isn't the best, but it's acceptable. Just finidng it hard to translate into Smash's 3D format.
Isn't the best is an understatement. It looks like it was drawn by a grade schooler in art class. ZUN makes great games, drawing isn't really his forte. There's plenty of fan depictions of Reimu though, I assume they'd be something like that. If I'm not mistaken, there is an anime as well that can be drawn from.
 
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Isn't the best is an understatement. It looks like it was drawn by a grade schooler in art class. ZUN makes great games, drawing isn't really his forte. There's plenty of fan depictions of Reimu though, I assume they'd be something like that. If I'm not mistaken, there is an anime as well that can be drawn from.
While the design amnd aesthetics of the character isn't a 100% defining trait of the character, it'll be mostly the gameplay that will be criticized.
 

UserKev

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Tomb Raider...is a mixed bag for me. One hand says it is popular due to the handling of representing women, another tells me how she influenced female representation.
I get your opinion on Tomb Raider. If Tomb Raider is revealed, its like Sakurai quoting "Here's your female DLC." I personally feel like Jinx/LOL or Tracer/Overwatch would feel genuine in comparison.
 

Night Gale

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I disagree. Lara is iconic af and a household name and came from an acclaimed series that helped pioneer the action adventure genre.

Many video game icons back in Lara's day were completely devoid of individuality, but Lara felt real. Betch had a ton of personality, a full name, and a believable backstory. Hell, when I was younger I thought that there was a real life Lara Croft and I know I'm not the only one.

Granted, I have a soft spot for Tomb Raider because it is what got me interested in video games altogether. As a young girl, I enjoyed watching my older sister play it and I would try to help her solve the puzzles. It took us forever to beat that sh*t but it was so fascinating. It wasn't the first video game that we owned but it was the first one to grab my attention. I looked up to Lara Croft; she's clever, resolute, talented, and athletic. She's inspired a ****load of people over the years.

She's a total badass and always has been. Imo, a fighter that doubles as a gaming history lesson would feel incomplete without one of the GOATs. Characters like Jinx and Tracer owe a lot to Lara because she broke down barriers, bruh. Her addition wouldn't be "Here's female DLC" it's more like "This is when women's representation in video games started to increase overseas and here's the reason why." Unlike Banjo-Kazooie, for example, Lara has never fallen into desuetude.
 
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RetrogamerMax

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So who is on your female characters wanted list guys? Here's mine:

1. Krystal
2. Dixie Kong
3. Tron Bonne
4. Shantae
5. Marina Liteyears
6. Risky Boots
7. Chun-Li
8. Medusa
9. Viridi
10. Elma
11. KOS-MOS
12. Taki
13. Mach Rider
14. Ayumi Tachibana
15. Tetra
16. Midna
17. Urbosa
18. Lyn
19. Lip
20. Reimu

Edit: Oh! And Gruntilda.
 
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Arymle Roseanne

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So who is on your female characters wanted list guys? Here's mine:
Here's some I think would be cool
1. Dixie
2. Shantae
3. Hat Kid/Bow Kid
4. Lip
5. Toadette
6. Jill Valentine
7. Elma
8. Laura Croft
9. Adeleine


Note that I don't have much too much since I'm satisfied with the game already but more characters (that are unique) wouldn't hurt.
 
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Coconattsu

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Y'all sleeping on Estelle Bright as one of the female characters. I can't really blame you as most of you likely haven't even heard where she comes from. But, basically why she is a good contender:

- JRPG protagonist from an unrepresented company (Nihon Falcom, which is basically the OG JRPG company out there, a big shout-out to them for making great JRPGs)
- Unused weapon style, fun moveset and gimmick potential that fits Smash incredibly well
- Trails/Kiseki series is decently popular in Japan
- The godlike music she'd bring with her

That's just things off the top of my head, I could go on and on, but the more I think about it, the more she makes sense as in inclusion in Smash if it weren't for the fact she has Adol from Ys competing against her for a Falcom rep.
 

Pwnz0rz Man

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Y'all sleeping on Estelle Bright as one of the female characters. I can't really blame you as most of you likely haven't even heard where she comes from. But, basically why she is a good contender:

- JRPG protagonist from an unrepresented company (Nihon Falcom, which is basically the OG JRPG company out there, a big shout-out to them for making great JRPGs)
- Unused weapon style, fun moveset and gimmick potential that fits Smash incredibly well
- Trails/Kiseki series is decently popular in Japan
- The godlike music she'd bring with her

That's just things off the top of my head, I could go on and on, but the more I think about it, the more she makes sense as in inclusion in Smash if it weren't for the fact she has Adol from Ys competing against her for a Falcom rep.
As much as I love the idea of Estelle...Adol is love, Adol is life.
 

Coconattsu

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As much as I love the idea of Estelle...Adol is love, Adol is life.
I mean yeah he's great but-- He's not a favorite of mine given the fact he's a silent protagonist, never been a big fan of those. As a character and as far as being unique goes, Estelle wins. Adol wins just for being from Ys, however.

He does still bring some amazing music though.
 
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RetrogamerMax

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Anyway since this is the female discussion thread, I would like to ask you guys, which female character do you think is getting in next? I'm thinking Elma or KOS-MOS at the moment.
 

Coconattsu

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Anyway since this is the female discussion thread, I would like to ask you guys, which female character do you think is getting in next? I'm thinking Elma or KOS-MOS at the moment.
I honestly think Reimu. I don't see Elma happening and KOS-MOS I could potentially see her, but not at the first one to come.
 

RetrogamerMax

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I honestly think Reimu. I don't see Elma happening and KOS-MOS I could potentially see her, but not at the first one to come.
Reimu I see as a coin toss right now because there is nothing really going against her, but at the same time nothing incredibly credible going for her.

Not to bash your opinion, but do you think Elma isn't a possibility because of her being a Spirit? Well I certainly think she has the best chances out the Spirit characters to get promoted along with Geno. I'll list a few reasons why I think she could be coming:

1. There is no Xenoblade X music in the game whatsoever. That could come with Elma if she is DLC.

2. Her voice actress has been vocing a role for something since last November and we still don't know what it is.

3. Someone in Xenoblade 2 said in a cutscene that it was everyones' dream to see Shulk and Elma together in one place. Note what makes this even more interesting is that Rex and Pyra are in this cutscene, but they just mention Shulk and Elma alone specifically.
 
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Coconattsu

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Not to bash your opinion, but do you think Elma isn't a possibility because of her being a Spirit? Well I certainly think she has the best chances out the Spirit characters to get promoted along with Geno. I'll list a few reasons why I think she could be coming:

1. There is no Xenoblade X music in the game whatsoever. That could come with Elma if she is DLC.

2. Her voice actress has been vocing a role for something since last November and we still don't know what it is.

3. Someone in Xenoblade 2 said in a cutscene that it was everyones' dream to see Shulk and Elma together in one place. Note what makes this even more interesting is that Rex and Pyra are in this cutscene, but they just mention Shulk and Elma alone specifically.
Not really, honestly, I wasn't even aware she was a spirit. I personally just don't see her happening before a Xenoblade 2 rep or even KOS-MOS herself, and that's a lot of representation for Xeno/Monolith Soft already.
 

Pwnz0rz Man

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I mean yeah he's great but-- He's not a favorite of mine given the fact he's a silent protagonist, never been a big fan of those. As a character and as far as being unique goes, Estelle wins. Adol wins just for being from Ys, however.

He does still bring some amazing music though.
If Terry is anything to go off of, Adol could bring Trails music with him, much like Terry brought Samurai Shodown and Metal Slug music. Yeah, he's a silent protagonist, but he does have a personality, unlike many others (cough cough Pokemon trainer), he isn't a blank slate (Link) every game either.

Uniqueness is something that's difficult to quantify when comparing characters. Everyone is unique, everyone has similarities, so it's just kind of a moot point.
Once I finish off Celceta, I'm gonna hit up the Trails series, so maybe my opinion on who I like more will change.
 

KingofPhantoms

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Just give me Tetra from Wind Waker. She and Dixie Kong are the only female newcomers I personally want that I can think up off the top of my head. Tetra's one of my favorite characters from my favorite LoZ and my favorite video game, period, so yeah.

I'm not too experienced with the Tomb Raider series but Lara Croft also seems like a fine choice to me when it comes to third parties. Even more so with the ever increasing variety of third party franchises I've seen joining the Smash family since the announcement off the Fighter Pass.
 
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Just give me Tetra from Wind Waker. She and Dixie Kong are the only female newcomers I personally want that I can think up off the top of my head. Tetra's one of my favorite characters from my favorite LoZ and my favorite video game, period, so yeah.

I'm not too experienced with the Tomb Raider series but Lara Croft also seems like a fine choice to me when it comes to third parties. Even more so with the ever increasing variety of third party franchises I've seen joining the Smash family since the announcement off the Fighter Pass.
Tetra's an interesting choice should they make Toon Zelda a thing. Bring back Transform Down-B goddammit! Geez, this is why i wanna try Melee so I can rotate between Zelda and Sheik with ease.

Yes, and she would bring one of the best female representatives in gaming.
 

1FC0

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I also miss their Transform. It seems that most people hate transforming, but I really liked it. At least Zelda and Sheik both got a new move out of it. Samus just lost something and got nothing in return.
 
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I also miss their Transform. It seems that most people hate transforming, but I really liked it. At least Zelda and Sheik both got a new move out of it. Samus just lost something and got nothing in return.
Zelda got her best spacing tool while Sheik got a new recovery move and a combo ender. Too bad she's **** in the current meta...
 

Arymle Roseanne

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I also miss their Transform. It seems that most people hate transforming, but I really liked it. At least Zelda and Sheik both got a new move out of it. Samus just lost something and got nothing in return.
Samus already had a full functional move set though, what else to add? Separating them made it easier for people choose between the two of them.
 
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