UCF Brawl in Orlando (Central Florida) + CFL PR Thread

[pesticide]

I have a ton of experience dealing with ELO ratings (considering thats entirely what chess ratings are based on)

Hopefully this ELO ranking works out well

 

[Sandtru27]

okay, can everyone stop typing it as "ELO".... it's not a ****ing acronym

It's "Elo"

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

Elo? As in Craig Ehlo?

BULLS WIN!!! THEY WIN!!!

 

[pesticide]

ELO, Elo whatever lol

 

[gallax]

Geoff, you get enraged easy man. Calm down brah lol. I have no problem talking about whats wrong with the Elo system. Sooooo raging is not really being a part of the solution buddy.

First off remember that Ryo started off 100 points below me. I went to NLL and racked up a ton of points, putting myself much further away than Ryo. He came back to 3 tourneys after that, in whiich i only attended one. But my losses were to hrnut and halberd, in which I didnt lose that many points. Same thing happened to ryo when he lost to hrnut. He lost around 40 points total where i lost around 35 total for losing to better players with halberd in the mix. Also, Ryo did not so well at WATO, losing to xaltis and Dj Jack, who i gave Ryo the upper hand in that actually because I set their skill levels as even for the head to head instead of saying Ryo was the better player. He didn't lose as many points as if I had set xaltis and Dj Jack to the regular standard points startup as regular scrubs.

Tl;Dr

Ryo's ranking is accurate. Even though I do believe him to be a better player than me and should have a higher ranking on the PR if it was done right now. Its because of the initial rankings, his losses at WATO, and because my losses have only been to him hrnut and halberd whereas his were to players not quite on his level. Its really complicated how that last part worked out, but it did.

 

[Sandtru27]

if that was me being enraged..... lol

i'm just calling out the many problems with the system you're using and showing that it does have bias/doesn't accurately measure reality

if you used a bonus pool/point system (that accrued over time) then you likely wouldn't of had the problem with Ryo being below you

also you can't "set the skills equal" to give someone the "upper hand." That's incredibly biased

again, these are very arbitrary numbers that can serve as a base line at best

for this to even remotely matter you straight up need to incorporate it into every tournament/ match FL ever does (starting fresh at a given point) AND do it accurately (aka not putting the same person in diff. times and mucking up their rating). Even still you then run into problems of purposeful opponent selection and the like.

 

[gallax]

If there are people multiple times then its simply because I copied it incorrectly into excel.

 

[2-DJeff]

whens the pr update?

 

[gallax]

Every 3 months.

And for pools, since I cannot determine who played who in any order I assigned points for wins and losses, acting as like you said geoff, bonus for competing in pools. Bonus' arent always positive values in pools though.

 

[Sandtru27]

no no no

you don't understand what a "bonus pool" is

i'm talking about points that accrue and you gain as a bonus per win (in addition to your k-val but not to exceed it)

 

[radiX/Gallax hydra]

If you want to do a state PR Elo system it would be awful. There were be an extreme amount of bias in it since we(regions) literally play each other at most once a month and the Elo would not be reflective of the players and how good they are. Elo is good for us because we(CFL) play each other often and its indicative of how good we are. Although it may not be 100% accurate, its a good tool to use, which is why im using it. No one ever said its the end to panelists and junk.

Oh and btw the more your go to tourneys and finish with a losing record the lower your Elo. This explains pesticide, TruBlue, and Agate's position in the rankings. They risked their points by entering into a tournament, and they lost, effectively taking mroe points away from them. TO get back into consideration for top 15 they will need to start beating good people to raise their total points. Or simply go 2-2 or better.

edit: I know what you are talking about then Geoff. It would make sense to give bonus's for entering more often and compiling wins. But that itself can be misleading. If you play and beat a scrub like JBGamer there really is no value in that win because we all know hes bad enough to literally lose it himself. This is dramatic, but it does happen in tourney. I do not want to include bonus points under these circumstances. The Elo should take care of the points through consistency.

 

[Sandtru27]

no **** but then you can't evaluate matches involving other regions by just adjusting SFL or others to a point level that you think is appropriate

you either have it for the entire state or you don't even include the matches for out of town

 

[radiX/Gallax hydra]

Im not doing it for the entire state. There is no logic in that when you take a step back and look at the amount of time we play region vs region. And I can rightly add matches from people out of town. Just because they dont live here it does not mean we dont have a good idea of how good they are, unless they are a rogue player like 8bitman or matther(diddy from tampa). But this is easily solved by me going to seibrik or riddle or mvd or esam, cuz i have them all on AIM, and can evaluate and players level of skill and match it to those in CFL and assign them a starting point(which is 1000 for this seasons Elo unless you are PR or Honorable Mention).

 

[Sandtru27]

you're putting subjectivity into **** that should be entirely mathematical

 

[radiX/Gallax hydra]

Determining starting values for every player are initally subjective no matter what.

 

[Sandtru27]

no, it's not

starting values should always be the same base (usually of 1000)

if you aren't starting people at the same base then this list/system is even more of a joke

 

[radiX/Gallax hydra]

Having initial conditions benefits those who are not PR. Losing to a PR should not count as hard as a loss from a random. Its common sense. Initial conditions = more accurate Elo system

 

[Sandtru27]

"initial" conditions protects people who shouldn't need to be protected and, again, puts subjectivity into something that should be just math

you need to understand the importance of resets/periods

 

[radiX/Gallax hydra]

Everyone gets a reset once the new CFL PR's come out. Only those who earned it(PR + honorary) will get the inital values added.

 

[Sandtru27]

that provides for unnecessary protection and grandfathering in of skill

 

[Sandtru27]

edit: I know what you are talking about then Geoff. It would make sense to give bonus's for entering more often and compiling wins. But that itself can be misleading. If you play and beat a scrub like JBGamer there really is no value in that win because we all know hes bad enough to literally lose it himself. This is dramatic, but it does happen in tourney. I do not want to include bonus points under these circumstances. The Elo should take care of the points through consistency.

No you still don't get it. Bonus points/pools HELP the less active (or players who come out of the woodworks). An active player will NOT have a large bonus pool and have already used it all up. A less active played will have larger bonus pool. Allowing them to double their point gain towards the end of the period. The bonus pool should prolly grow weekly on mondays (and prolly not much more than 5-25 depending on if tourneys still happen on a weekly basis).

You're really showing how incompetent you are to run any kind of math-based rating system.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Here's what i get:

Spoiler

Shut the hell up.

 

[DJ Arcatek]

Here's what i get:

Spoiler

Shut the hell up.

James has the right idea.

 

[radiX/Gallax hydra]

His name is ryan lol

 

[Two-Ell]

Nah, that's just his idea of trolling x3

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

James has the right idea.

His name is ryan lol

Nah, that's just his idea of trolling x3

I made a new sig and i'm excited so ima quote youuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

this is the first time i've used animation. I'm kind of excited.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

There's no need for anyone to shut up. This is merely just a debate between Mike and Geoff. It's good to see discussion like this just as long as it doesn't get out of hand.

 

[GDX]

im down to play some AE or brawl at my house tonight for anyone interested. the AE/MVC3 tourney is behind my house tomorrow so i can house if need be

 

[Sandtru27]

There's no need for anyone to shut up. This is merely just a debate between Mike and Geoff. It's good to see discussion like this just as long as it doesn't get out of hand.

lol i think those posts are some of the most tame/actual points that i've posted since 2009.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

All of this system stuff sounds dumb.. I know who is good and who is bad

 

[Kuro~]

Ryan i'll be at my dorm anywhere from 2-4 if your still up to chill. Idk where you live, the bus schedules, or have my bike yet so you'd have to pick me up @ my dorm.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Kuro.
Pest is comin' over around 4. And so is Seibrik and DC.

So you should def come over. Seibrik and DC are staying the night here. You're welcome to stay too.

 

[2-DJeff]

sorry mink i was gonna go but i changed my mind. next time!

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

IT's cool bro.

So i got Pest, kuro, Seibs and DC comin'.
Mike you can come if you want I'll prob text ya

 

[OverLade]

I just noticed that there are Multiple oLJo's in the ELO system, you should probably add them together. Also if there's anyone under LJ that's also the same person.

Oh and the Bracket from PnT singles is up!

 

[2-DJeff]

I just noticed that there are Multiple oLJo's in the ELO system, you should probably add them together. Also if there's anyone under LJ that's also the same person.

Oh and the Bracket from PnT singles is up!

no the bracket was ****ed up that day. It had multiple names of his just like trumps. the shouldnt be added up.

 

[Sandtru27]

lol since when did people become this computer illiterate

using TIO is like the easiest thing in the world

 

[GDX]

Nah Geoff I was there running tio. For some reason when I moved someone to another part of the bracket it randomly cloned what I was moving and made two of them. It didn't do it every time though...it was mad annoying

 

[Sandtru27]

if that's the case it still doesn't excuse the mult. errors

it's very easy to filter that data

also oljo is listed MULTIPLE times

ANYONE that played against him is gonna have inaccurate point gain/loss from him (also ANYONE that played against others AFTER playing against him)

 

[GDX]

the tourney with the multiple people in the bracket was wato...those people havnt been to a tourney since then, and that was the first tourney it happened