Twisted Fate Mafia [D3 BEGINS, DEADLINE: 3/8 at 11:59 PM EST]

[~ Gheb ~]

Is that so?

Why did I vote him?

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

You voted him because he asked a question that corp had already answered, and then corp stated that he/she (sorry I don't know >_>) wasn't new to mafia. I'm guessing that you voted him to put some pressure for him to answer. @The Man From Delamar Thoughts?

 

[Spak]

Unvote

Sorry. Valentine's Day weekend. Will be here today.

OK, cool. Now that you're here, what do you think of everything that has happened thus far?

8. Spak - slight scum (Just gut based, I'll probably read thru all his posts again and tag him with questions.)

Looking forward to it.

You voted him because he asked a question that corp had already answered, and then corp stated that he/she (sorry I don't know >_>) wasn't new to mafia. I'm guessing that you voted him to put some pressure for him to answer. @The Man From Delamar Thoughts?

Let me get this straight: you state that you think Gheb voted for Del because he was asking a question that was already answered, summarize Corps' Mafia skill, then said that you guess Gheb voted Del to put on pressure to answer a question (which was not mentioned in your initial reasoning statement, nor do I see a question directed at Del when I read back). You then ask Del for his thoughts, although I'm not sure what thoughts Del would have to share on the issue since Gheb would be the only one able to confirm/deny his own reasoning. The fact that your reasoning for Gheb's vote is different in the first and second sentences makes you sound very unsure of your reasoning, and asking Del for his thoughts on something that he isn't related to seems a bit panicked; do you actually know why Gheb voted for Del, or are you just putting out theories and trying to rationalize them?

 

[Dastrn]

#HBC | Red Ryu Your activity has been lacking content, and sparse to say the least.

(...skipping RVS posts...)

#HBC | J how do you feel about Pheonix thus far?

Questions are nice, but we need your thoughts too. In isolation, this isn't a bad post in any respect. When it makes up a doube-digit percent of your contribution, though...

Feeling conflicted on Phoenix myself mostly since it feels so....null and not there to care to me.

Earlish feel read for me but one that I am looking at and trying to figure out.

It feels off to me on early stuff.

No stance is not a stance. In isolation, this isn't a terrible post. When an answer of "no stance...nullish" makes up a double digit percent of your content, though...

Who do you think is scum right now off a best guess?

Questions are nice and all, but...see above...

Don't answer for others.

It tends to taint questions a lot.

That's helpful and all, but...

I feel like some dislike or question are at dastrn is a return of people not liking his semi mechanical approach, if I recall this is very standard of what I remember and some people do approach it like this.

Strangely made me likes corps more despite it somewhat of a strange focus on my inclusion.

This was your first post of substance in the game as best as I can tell. And it's half meta, if we're honest, and a clarified stance with an asterisk on it twice ("strangely....strange...somewhat..." etc)

Do you have anything to bring to the table that will let us see what's underneath the surface a little? You're a good player, so you shouldn't be having this much trouble getting involved in a meaningful way.

You're currently on my lynchable list not only because of your inactivity, but by the nature of what little activity you've given us.

 

[Dastrn]

Unvote

Vote: Red Ryu

That's the most honest place to put my vote right now.

FOS: Spak

Still also willing to see Kantrip go, but I doubt his first 7 posts would give me as much of a scum smell as RR has. Looking forward to the next 48 hours.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

#HBC | Red Ryu Your activity has been lacking content, and sparse to say the least.

(...skipping RVS posts...)


Questions are nice, but we need your thoughts too. In isolation, this isn't a bad post in any respect. When it makes up a doube-digit percent of your contribution, though...



No stance is not a stance. In isolation, this isn't a terrible post. When an answer of "no stance...nullish" makes up a double digit percent of your content, though...



Questions are nice and all, but...see above...



That's helpful and all, but...



This was your first post of substance in the game as best as I can tell. And it's half meta, if we're honest, and a clarified stance with an asterisk on it twice ("strangely....strange...somewhat..." etc)

Do you have anything to bring to the table that will let us see what's underneath the surface a little? You're a good player, so you shouldn't be having this much trouble getting involved in a meaningful way.

You're currently on my lynchable list not only because of your inactivity, but by the nature of what little activity you've given us.

A lot of it is me trying to feel people out and keep focus on a few interactions, you and pheonix interests me.

Spak in general does.

Mostly where I am right now.

If you mean why I haven't been posting as much as other games, I'm trying to make sure when I post I make sure I keep up with what is going on then ask where I need to dig into to figure out people better.

Spak interesting me because I don't see him as straight scum but want to figure out if this is him being scum or just making some sub par decisions. I'm not sold on either.

 

[Kantrip]

~ Gheb ~ looked through the game, don't see where you think Man from Delmar is being scummy outside of semi-buddying behavior with me early on. Explain and talk about other people too

When I play mafia I hate giving town reads because it traps you. If I say I like player A for example A, and I want to lynch player B, and Player B starts doing example A, now I have to explain why I still want to lynch him when he's doing something I was giving town reads for. Then maybe player A does something that makes me smell blood in the water, but I already defended him earlier by giving him a town read, so now I'd have to explain my flip, when the only reasons for it are scum reasons. If I never had to give town reads, I could push player B and then jump on Player A, and never have to be tied down to "can't lynch this person because I'm supposed to be town reading them", because it's easy enough to justify flipping through a few options if no one knows where your head is at.

From my perspective, forcing scum to town read people limits their options and ability to team up without giving themselves away. Almost every time I've played it comes down to "But you said you were town reading this guy for voting Maven, but now you're listing this other guy's Maven vote as why you're voting him, and you never said you were reading Maven as town", or something along those lines. Catch mafia by forcing them to post and explain their thoughts, because mafia are full of ****. Then you use your bull**** detector and sniff em out. Forcing them to say who they're "town reading" and why helps with that.

Hell, many times you can find scum just because they're the ones refusing to town read anyone even into day 3. Not a rule/guarantee, I've been in that situation as town, but it's still hella suspicious.

I hate everything about this post. A townie should never be afraid to tell the truth. Reads change and different people get read differently for the same tells based on their circumstances. Wanting to be able to freely move reads around without scrutiny is not a valid reason to withhold information.

That said, there's no reason for scum to say what Maven said here. I am townreading him at this point in the game, I just wanted to point out my disdain for this post in specific.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I'll be around tomorrow.

 

[Kantrip]

I don't see any problem with Ryu's content being a lot of questions and non-stances considering there's not a lot of content in this game that warrants hard stances.

Vote: Dastrn

Mechanical play is one thing, but I really dislike how much time he spent on taking credit for getting the game out of RVS phase and then doing nothing but explaining mafia theory in horrendous walls. Concern about liking posts having the potential to send private information isn't something town would worry about because mafia can send private information to each other all the time anyways. The fact that a very mechanical player was worried about a mechanical advantage from sending private information via likes suggests to me he is mafia worried that town might take advantage of likes to communicate with each other. Of course he could have voiced concerns in private with the mod about this and could just be worried about it in a mafia-theory fairness sense, too.

 

[Kantrip]

I like Gheb pop quizzing TSYK at the top of this page. Pro-town move.

TSYK reads as newb-town with his willingness to say "I know it may look scummy that I have only one scum read" and still come out with the info.

Maven's initial interaction with J was weird in that he singled J out for his activity when there were a lot of people contributing an equal or lesser amount. It's understandable though because J often gets caught up with armchair critique and meta commentary on D1.

I disliked Spak the most in the early stages of the game prior to Dastrn's bad push on Ryu. First thing that caught my eye in this game was his tone shift in his #130 post seeming awkward. “Oh dear, I’ve been found out. Call the executioner lol” and then “But seriously, what’s the point you’re trying to make” is a weird shift between brushing off a joke to getting unnecessarily defensive about a joke.

 

[Spak]

I disliked Spak the most in the early stages of the game prior to Dastrn's bad push on Ryu. First thing that caught my eye in this game was his tone shift in his #130 post seeming awkward. “Oh dear, I’ve been found out. Call the executioner lol” and then “But seriously, what’s the point you’re trying to make” is a weird shift between brushing off a joke to getting unnecessarily defensive about a joke.

Yeah, that's because I honestly didn't know if he meant to respond with more and forgot, found something at fault with my statement, or just make a joke. I figured that he would actually try to argue for/against my response in a constructive manner to help get us out of RVS (since this was pretty much the first legitimate question all game), but apparently he just wanted to ask a question and then make a joke about it.

 

[Dastrn]

I don't see any problem with Ryu's content being a lot of questions and non-stances considering there's not a lot of content in this game that warrants hard stances.

Vote: Dastrn

Mechanical play is one thing, but I really dislike how much time he spent on taking credit for getting the game out of RVS phase and then doing nothing but explaining mafia theory in horrendous walls. Concern about liking posts having the potential to send private information isn't something town would worry about because mafia can send private information to each other all the time anyways. The fact that a very mechanical player was worried about a mechanical advantage from sending private information via likes suggests to me he is mafia worried that town might take advantage of likes to communicate with each other. Of course he could have voiced concerns in private with the mod about this and could just be worried about it in a mafia-theory fairness sense, too.

One of my top 3 targets is voting me. oh noes. /s
I'm not remotely concerned about your post. Here's why: it's old. I get mechanical in early games, and yes I get teachy at times. People ask for my reasons for things, and sometimes I get a little too overboard with my answers. This is nothing new. I do it every time I play. There's always a player or two that really dislike it, and it always turns into a vote or two.
In the meantime, I don't mind taking credit for breaking RVS because what I do is effective. And lots of other people have done lots of work to transition us away as well. I just take specific action to break it every game, as often as the opportunity presents itself.

Kantrip, your decision to be okay with RR's question only and non-stances is consistent with your own complete lack of inactivity, so defending him is a way of indirectly defending yourself.

I've also broken out of the mechanical stuff for my last 15 posts or so. Maybe you haven't caught up yet? Or maybe you just spent so much time not in the game, that it's hard to notice the transition when you're reading the entire Day in one sitting for the first time...that's a major problem with doing what you did. Your inactivity has been very bad for this game. Join games you can play in, or don't join. But sitting out of 48 hours of play is not ok.

And I have to admit that your argument about me pointing out the potential for abuse in the liking and unliking of posts in game as a scum-tell made me actually laugh. I was about to click like, and then I stopped and realized the potential for abuse, so I asked the game what the standard rules were on that because of the potential issue, and that was it. Trying to read in some sort of scum motive is just fishing.

You've played with me before as well. Perhaps with my hydra account xastrn? I can't recall which game, maybe Oddworld? What have you seen in this game that has been so different that makes you see the mechanical play early as a scum tell and not a playstyle?

 

[Dastrn]

I hate everything about this post. A townie should never be afraid to tell the truth. Reads change and different people get read differently for the same tells based on their circumstances. Wanting to be able to freely move reads around without scrutiny is not a valid reason to withhold information.

That said, there's no reason for scum to say what Maven said here. I am townreading him at this point in the game, I just wanted to point out my disdain for this post in specific.

I think you were missing what Maven was saying there. It sounds like he was saying that when he is playing as scum, he hates being forced to share town reads. Not when he is playing the game mafia in general.
@Maven89 correct if I'm reading you wrong. You should respond for yourself. I'm just responding based on my read because it made me change something about my philosophy.

I actually feel like I learned something from that post, since my usual stance is to keep my town reads to myself until I have specific reason to share them, and I'm being shown alternatives to that view that challenge my paradigm. I enjoy breaking my way of thinking and rebuilding it when better ideas come along, and this was a thought that really gave me new ideas to work with.

 

[Corps phoenix]

Read-list

J
Gheb
Ryker
Dastrn
Spak
Maven
TSYK
Kantrip
Delamar
Red Ryu

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Concern about liking posts having the potential to send private information isn't something town would worry about because mafia can send private information to each other all the time anyways. The fact that a very mechanical player was worried about a mechanical advantage from sending private information via likes suggests to me he is mafia worried that town might take advantage of likes to communicate with each other. Of course he could have voiced concerns in private with the mod about this and could just be worried about it in a mafia-theory fairness sense, too.

Okay, I'm still just gonna play Street Fighter instead of mafia tonight, but are you seriously pushing that? The end of that paragraph makes me feel like you aren't, but if you aren't, why did you bring it up?

 

[Kantrip]

I don't give a **** about your mechanical play. I'm voting you because your Ryu push is bad. And to answer yours and Ryker's questions, no I am not seriously pushing you for what you said about liking posts.

If I misinterpreted Maven's post then that's my bad and I agree with the sentiment if it's about playing as scum.

 

[Kantrip]

I'm not sure how you think that me being okay with Ryu asking questions and not pushing stances is defending myself. I was away for 2 ****ing days for Valentine's Day weekend and suddenly I'm a huge problem inactive. If I had thought ahead and realized the game would start while I would have no computer access I would have declared V/LA. My bad. But seriously people are going a little crazy with activity policing for that.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Dastrn i am interested in your thoughts on my previous post to your vote.

I'd like it addressed at least please and thank you.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Read-list

J
Gheb
Ryker
Dastrn
Spak
Maven
TSYK
Kantrip
Delamar
Red Ryu

This confuses me, could you put it differently, like leans of town or Mafia?

 

[Dastrn]

A lot of it is me trying to feel people out and keep focus on a few interactions, you and pheonix interests me.

Spak in general does.

Mostly where I am right now.

If you mean why I haven't been posting as much as other games, I'm trying to make sure when I post I make sure I keep up with what is going on then ask where I need to dig into to figure out people better.

Spak interesting me because I don't see him as straight scum but want to figure out if this is him being scum or just making some sub par decisions. I'm not sold on either.

Is this the one you mean?

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

I'll be able to post from 3-7:00 PT from now on, so if you have a question for me, ask it then.

 

[Dastrn]

Concern about liking posts having the potential to send private information isn't something town would worry about because mafia can send private information to each other all the time anyways. The fact that a very mechanical player was worried about a mechanical advantage from sending private information via likes suggests to me he is mafia worried that town might take advantage of likes to communicate with each other.

no I am not seriously pushing you for what you said about liking posts.

Which is it? You're contradicting yourself.

Still also willing to see Kantrip go, but I doubt his first 7 posts would give me as much of a scum smell as RR has.

I might just have been wrong about this.

I can very easily see the two of them being scum-mates.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Is this the one you mean?

Yes.

 

[Dastrn]

Without trying to sound rude, it was almost incomprehensible. Can you put it into sentences that a high school english teacher wouldn't dock your grade for?
(I genuinely don't mean to be rude, but I literally couldn't make much sense out of it, since it was mostly fragments, and punctuation was few and far between.)

 

[Dastrn]

I'm sorry. There was a much kinder way to put that. I am dealing with a pissy coworker on a skype call, and I was trying to express my thought, and clarify that I wasn't trying to be rude, but as soon as I read it back, I realized that it'd be hard not to see it as a **** post. That's not how I roll.
Sincerely, I apologize.

 

[Kantrip]

Read the end of the first post instead of cherry picking.

 

[#HBC | J]

You've played with me before as well. Perhaps with my hydra account xastrn? I can't recall which game, maybe Oddworld? What have you seen in this game that has been so different that makes you see the mechanical play early as a scum tell and not a playstyle?

Did you really just cite Oddworld as a game in which someone would know you by? Firstly, that was my first game here on this site and my entrance game. Second, that was 6 years ago. Like why would you use that game haha. (As an aside, Kanty was not even in the community at that time.)

Oh Dastrn.

 

[#HBC | J]

This confuses me, could you put it differently, like leans of town or Mafia?

I actually understood it better and it actually has provided more reads than anyone has currently done. Looking at the faces are like looking at social cues, you can understand it if you look at it closely.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Without trying to sound rude, it was almost incomprehensible. Can you put it into sentences that a high school english teacher wouldn't dock your grade for?
(I genuinely don't mean to be rude, but I literally couldn't make much sense out of it, since it was mostly fragments, and punctuation was few and far between.)

I'm sorry. There was a much kinder way to put that. I am dealing with a pissy coworker on a skype call, and I was trying to express my thought, and clarify that I wasn't trying to be rude, but as soon as I read it back, I realized that it'd be hard not to see it as a **** post. That's not how I roll.
Sincerely, I apologize.

Happens when I post from my phone.

Right now I am focusing on a few interactions.

You and Phoenix.
Spak.
You and Kantrip.

Right now I do not have string reads on anyone. Which is why I am asking a lot of questions. To figure that out and get some real reads.

I've been taking an approach in recent games EE told me to do. Not to spread myself thin with players and focus on a few at a time.

You seem to be taking major issues with the fact I am asking a lot of questions but not giving firm reads.

Nothing sticks out to me other than some interactions you have made and spak alone.

I'm right now trying to see if Soak jumped on something too early with the Ryker vote. Then there are his interactions with Gheb. Did he make a mistake or was he scum trying to fake content.

You interest me from your mechanical approach but in the end you are trying to get stuff to happen in this mafia game.

Corps and Kantrip interactions with you are the ones that stand out to me from it. Pheonix early on from addressing your approach to the game then Kantrip where he hates your scum reads.

If you want my reads.

Cautiously scum leaning Spak.
Slightly scum reading Corps.
Slight town read on you.
Slight town read on Kantrip.

No one else I have a strong read on outside of maybe J if i reread him.

Is this better?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I actually understood it better and it actually has provided more reads than anyone has currently done. Looking at the faces are like looking at social cues, you can understand it if you look at it closely.

Eh, I can't tell what some of them mean frankly.

 

[SlickWylde]

Gheb comes off as very towny.
J seems towny.
Man from Delanor hasn't posted anything that I've thought was good. I'll look at examples if people think otherwise. Scum lean.
Spak is unreadable for me ATM.
TSYK - There's literally no way to know yet
Kantrip seems somewhat towny
Ryker- Slightly leaning scum, but he's had a few decent posts imo
Red Ryu- He's asking a lot of questions. I think his response recently was pretty good, didn't seem too defensive, and seems like he's actually trying to move the conversation, so I'm gonna say slight town read on him.

The two people I'd be okay with interrogating/possibly lynching today are Man from Delanor and Ryker (Not that anyone's asking, but there they are in case anyone's wondering)

And I don't care about my grammar, so don't bother lecturing me about it.

 

[#HBC | J]

Uh slick, you just called nearly everyone town or null sans Ryker.

Can you explain your Ryker scum-read more? Also why is everyone forgetting Delly posted he'd be V/LA yet keep throwing him into the "lynch pile".

Yikes.

 

[SlickWylde]

Uh slick, you just called nearly everyone town or null sans Ryker.

Can you explain your Ryker scum-read more? Also why is everyone forgetting Delly posted he'd be V/LA yet keep throwing him into the "lynch pile".

Yikes.

Well the majority are going to be town, right?

Also if you held a gun to my head, I'd say Spak could be scum. I just don't really have much solid evidence and I'm not as good as you guys are with coming up with clues and picking apart posts.

Regarding Ryker, can you point to a specific post or posts that come off as towny?

You and Gheb are my only two town reads. The others are just people that in not too worried about at the moment.

 

[Dastrn]

Of course he could have voiced concerns in private with the mod about this and could just be worried about it in a mafia-theory fairness sense, too.

Read the end of the first post instead of cherry picking.

I read it several times. I was hoping you'd bring it up. Thanks for the segway.

It's a common scum tactic to always add a clarifier to an attack as a backdoor way out in case they need to flip their stance due to popular opinion or new evidence. They can always point at that backdoor one liner like the one in green above and say "I was just pointing out both possibilities."

No, it was clear which one you meant to focus on. Clear enough that a third party chimed in and said "srsly?":

Okay, I'm still just gonna play Street Fighter instead of mafia tonight, but are you seriously pushing that? The end of that paragraph makes me feel like you aren't, but if you aren't, why did you bring it up?

To which you responded, backpedaling:

I don't give a **** about your mechanical play. I'm voting you because your Ryu push is bad. And to answer yours and Ryker's questions, no I am not seriously pushing you for what you said about liking posts.

If I misinterpreted Maven's post then that's my bad and I agree with the sentiment if it's about playing as scum.

Which is it? Your strongest statements implied that it was a scummy thing to do.

 

[Kantrip]

Dastrn is very frustrating to deal with but I think he's town.

J what do you make of Gheb in this game?

Corps phoenix I don't think I know you but you seem to have mafia experience. Played on smashboards before? Read on Ryu?

 

[Kantrip]

Dastrn, I threw out a gut feeling and also provided a contrasting motive for it. I am not going to seriously pursue a read on the basis of rules discussions nor am I going to continue to talk about it in the future. I worded things badly as I didn't edit and just typed thoughts as they came up and this is the last I'm going to say about that.

 

[Kantrip]

Also Dastrn if you're going to drill people for inadequate English at least spell segue correctly.

Tell me why Ryu asking questions is a problem. Is it not okay to have no strong reads and make an active effort to fix that? How is what he is doing worse than anyone else who is doing less than him?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Votecount incoming.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Votecount 1.1

1. #HBC | Ryker: Spak > Corps > Spak
2. Corps Phoenix: Dastrn >
3. The Man from Delamar: Slick > Spak
4. Maven89: Slick > Ryker
5. ASC | Red Ryu: Spak
6. Gheb_01: Ryker > The Man
7. Kantrip: Dastrn
8. Spak: Ryker >
9. #HBC | J: The Man
10. ThatSmasherYouKnow:
11. Dastrn: Spak > Ruy
12. SlickWylde: Dastrn >

Not voting: Corps, Spak, TSYK, Slick

Count
Spak (3): Ruy, The Man, Ryker
The Man (2): J, Gheb
Ryker (1): Maven
Ruy (1): Dastrn
Dastrn (1): Kantrip

As a reminder, Deadline is Thursday, February 18th at 11:59 PM EST. With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.​

 

[Dastrn]

Also Dastrn if you're going to drill people for inadequate English at least spell segue correctly.

Tell me why Ryu asking questions is a problem. Is it not okay to have no strong reads and make an active effort to fix that? How is what he is doing worse than anyone else who is doing less than him?

I believe I explained my issues with his overall post habits in my original case against him. It wasn't any one post that contained the entirety of my case.
It was the general structure of posting
1. Rarely,
2. Mostly questions,
3. Containing almost no positions of his own,
and 4. Giving vagueness to the positions he did share so that they couldn't be pinned to him later.

And I didn't mean "segue" as in transition. I meant thanks for sending me a 2 wheeled standing self-balancing transportation device.