Twisted Fate Mafia [D3 BEGINS, DEADLINE: 3/8 at 11:59 PM EST]

[#HBC | J]

I wanna know what this "more" Dastrn expects from a D1 case and after Gheb isolated damn near every post of Kanty and tried to explain the scum-reasoning behind it.

Like either Dastrn's expectactions are astronomical or he is just blowing smoke.

 

[Kantrip]

I actually didn't mean to withhold any information re: my read on Kantrip. I simply wrote that post backwards and forgot to add in my reasoning on him in the end. Whoops.


I'll just go through the more important posts one by one:

Post #287 - not sure what the point of this one is supposed to be. It's pretty much the first of his posts that has any substance and it basically says that he hates what Maven is saying and therefore reads him as town because a scumbag wouldn't post something like that [???]. It's a fairly random comment to make on a fairly inconsequential post.

Post #289 and Post #290 - both of these look pretty bad to me. #289 essentially tries to paint Dastrn's mechanical approach as something inherently scummy and his claim that Dastrn tried to fish for pro-town credit by trying to get us out of RVS is an exaggeration.

Blacking out everything that's not a relevant point against me.

I do not try to say anything about Dastrn's mechanical approach. I have played with it before and it is null. I make one mention that Dastrn taking credit for getting the game out of RVS bothers me. I never say he fished for it or that he said it multiple times. Gheb claiming I did is a blatant lie.

IIRC Dastrn had only mentioned it once at the very beginning of one of his posts and never actually made a deal out of it. Fact of that matter is, if you atually read through all of his posts, you'd see Dastrn's mechanic/inactivity talk hasn't really kept him [or anybody else] from involving people in the scumhunting process. I suspect Kantrip isn't actually reading the game and just pretends to have stuff to say [see: previous point]. All of his points in #290 are very superficial and could have easily been made up on the spot. They don't actually tell us anything.

This is simply untrue and needs elaboration or a better example. Everything I said was based on my impressions while (and/or after) reading the game. I skimmed some things, like Dastrn's giant wall of mafia theory, and missed some things due to reading quickly, like the context of Maven's post I disliked at first, but I did read the game.

Post #296 suddenly claims that he doesn't actually have an issue with Dastrn's mechanical play despite the fact that in 289 Kantrip complains about his "horrendous walls of mafia theory".

Complaining about horrendous walls of mafia theory =/= Calling mechanical play scummy

Now his main issue is Dastrn's "bad" push on Ryu [something Kantrip hadn't mentioned before even once] and he suppsedly "doesn't give a ****" about Dastrn's mechanical play anymore. Ignoring the fact that we're dealing with a massive contradiction here Kantrip owes us an explanation what about the push was supposedly so bad as well. I think it's well established by now that people who haven't played with Ryu a lot before tend to read him as suspicious so it shouldn't be much of a surprise for Kantrip that something like that would happen.

There is no contradiction. The Ryu push was what spurred my vote of Dastrn and was the only thing I disliked. The reason I disliked it was because Ryu was one of the players contributing the most in the form of his questions and Dastrn was pushing him for not having stances when, at that point in the game, all of two players had actual stances.

Post #302 and Post #314 are solid posts and I'm not sure why Dastrn isn't pushing that issue any further.

To me it seems fairly easy to see that Kantrip was hoping to use the whole "Dastrn has a mechanical approach to mafia which isn't well appreciated in dGames"-approach for an easy to push. As Dastrn correctly pointed out Kantrip has left himself a few backdoors open which is probably the strongest tells of them all [for instance Kantrip could've just hopped off a hypothetical Dastrn wagon, refer to whatever little qualifier he hid somewhere in his posts as reasoning and then look good upon a town!Dastrn flip]. So the way I see it Kantrip was just looking for something that allowed him to fake productive input while leaving himself a backdoor to dip as soon **** was about to get serious. But it looks like he bit off more than he could chew because he wasn't really reading anything beyond the very surface layers [which is something I'd consider scummy in itself depending on context].

The only points in this paragraph are pushing Dastrn for mechanical play and back-doors. As I've said already, I never called mechanical play scummy nor did I push Dastrn for it. If I leave back-doors it's not intentional but just a result of D1 reads not being strong.

Incidentally, between #315 and 317 tries to assure us that a.) Kantrip doesn't actually read Dastrn as scum but in a magic turn of events as town [nevermind the fact that Kantrip is still voting him anyway!] b.) it was all some sort of misunderstanding based on a gut feeling that Kantrip doesn't actually mean to pursue [despite already having done so] c.) it was actually kinda Dastrn because arguing with him is supposedly "frustrating".

Let me make this abundantly clear for you.

I had a scumread on Dastrn for his Ryu push, and his Ryu push alone.
Mechnical play was NEVER an issue.
Huge walls of mafia theory were always annoying and never telling of alignment.
Taking credit for getting the game out of RVS and being concerned with liking posts were minor things that caught my eye but were never something I actually based a read off of.

Then, after my interaction with him, I changed my mind and decided he was town BASED on that interaction. This didn't change anything that happened before and it is not a contradiction. It was me changing my mind on his alignment.

Then Kantrip resorted to not actually having any scumread, using a general lack of activity in this game as an excuse to not really go beyond reading dudes as null [post #322] and blending.

I hope that's good enough for you all.

Are you honestly going to tell me this game is bustling with activity where everybody has given a lynch target and explained it and everyone has actions they can be held accountable for?

Ryker
The Man From Delamar
Corps Phoenix
ThatSmasherYouKnow
Maven

and probably more have all given us virtually nothing, how exactly are any of them supposed to be something other than null or "would policy lynch?"

 

[Kantrip]

Vote: Ryker

 

[Dastrn]

That won't be problem.

Not sure if serious.

Regarding the green, why so confident?

Regarding the blue, your post ninja'd mine. I didn't see your case until after I had posted mine.

 

[Spak]

(That was an accidental like on Kantrip's 355; I'm willing to policy lynch, but want to wait until tomorrow or late tonight to determine if a PL is the best option).

 

[SlickWylde]

I think Kantrip's initial vote on Dastrn was very weak, and I did get the impression that the walls of text looked scummy to him, even though he says otherwise.

While I agree with many of Gheb's points, I disagree with the point about Kantrip doing an "easy push" on Dastrn because people dislike mechanical play. Kantrip seems too smart for such an obvious tactic, especially so early on, when he could have focused on an inactive. I don't see why scum would play the way he has so far, I see no benefit.

Spak at least give your thoughts on Gheb's points against Kantrip, so I can know where your head is at. (Not that I'm someone important, but I'm the only confirmed town)

#HBC | J Are Gheb's points enough evidence for you of Kantrip's guilt? AKA do you completely buy his argument as a whole?

 

[Dastrn]

I think Kantrip's initial vote on Dastrn was very weak, and I did get the impression that the walls of text looked scummy to him, even though he says otherwise.

While I agree with many of Gheb's points, I disagree with the point about Kantrip doing an "easy push" on Dastrn because people dislike mechanical play. Kantrip seems too smart for such an obvious tactic, especially so early on, when he could have focused on an inactive. I don't see why scum would play the way he has so far, I see no benefit.

Spak at least give your thoughts on Gheb's points against Kantrip, so I can know where your head is at. (Not that I'm someone important, but I'm the only confirmed town)

#HBC | J Are Gheb's points enough evidence for you of Kantrip's guilt? AKA do you completely buy his argument as a whole?

Can you see a town motivation for what you're calling such a bad play?
Can you see a scum motivation for it? You seem to indicate that you don't, but only because he's too good to make such a bad play as scum? But if that's true, isn't he too good to make such a bad play as town, too? Perhaps you can tell us why you see this bad play as only possible by a townie? (Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding you entirely? If so, help me out.)

In that first green text highlighted, you are stating that you believe that he is essentially lying or backpedaling from his stance, so why doesn't that nudge you towards thinking he's likely scum?

 

[Dastrn]

One more thought for all of you:

If Kantrip is the play today, and he flips scum, do you think that implicates anyone else? If so, who and for what reason?

If Kantrip is the play and flips town, what might that imply?

He may be a good candidate because of the information we'd glean from his flip, but he might not. I'd always prefer to lynch a solid candidate over a policy candidate if we have the chance, and lynching someone with links that give us direction D2 is always nice.

If we can do that, great. If it doesn't seem like the best play, inactive lynching is always acceptable to me.

I'll update my post counter this afternoon sometime and post it so everyone can get a somewhat helpful, somewhat concrete measure of activity. I recognize volume doesn't equal quality but it's one measurement tool we have, and I won't neglect it.

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

I'm on mobile so I can't really type a lot, but instead of lynching Kantrip, I think we would be better off lynching someone who seems to be partnering with someone else, or someone who seems incredibly scummy. On the subject of Gheb's post about why he's voting for Kantrip, I can't really choose a side. Both have good points so I'm torn in the middle. Gheb seems very pro town, but if Kantrip flips mafia, then Gheb might not be so pro town, if that makes any sense. I don't think that Gheb has enough strong points to justify his vote, and Kantrip doesn't have enough points to counter Gheb's vote, but the deadline is coming up very soon, and unless someone does something incredibly scummy that would make everyone vote for them, I don't see this game going anywhere soon.

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

But, the problem is that no one seems to be partnering, so we got no one to lynch.

 

[SlickWylde]

Can you see a town motivation for what you're calling such a bad play?
Can you see a scum motivation for it? You seem to indicate that you don't, but only because he's too good to make such a bad play as scum? But if that's true, isn't he too good to make such a bad play as town, too? Perhaps you can tell us why you see this bad play as only possible by a townie? (Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding you entirely? If so, help me out.)

In that first green text highlighted, you are stating that you believe that he is essentially lying or backpedaling from his stance, so why doesn't that nudge you towards thinking he's likely scum?

My thought would be "Maybe he really wasn't trying to lynch based off the mechanical play, as he says."

But, you are right. I basically called him out on backpedaling, and then completely ignored it throughout the rest of my post. If I didn't believe that your mechanical play wasn't a factor, then why would I let him off the hook? Good catch, thanks!

As far as your "if Kantrip flips scum" I guess Gheb would look very towny, but I don't think my opinion on anyone else would change as far as my list goes.

ThatSmasherYouKnow Look for small things. I've noticed scummates rarely give hard reads on each other, and tend to be very generic when referring to their partners, so look for that kind of thing (the others might disagree with this, feel free to correct me)

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I like Gheb's case but these inactives really are on my d1 bigger deal list.

Vote: Ryker

He's prod dodging so I'm down to lynch it.

 

[SlickWylde]

Vote: Kantrip


#HBC | Red Ryu

I understand that voting for inactives is good, but how much information will that get us? Lynching Kantrip would get us the most information right now, wouldn't it?

 

[Spak]

Spak at least give your thoughts on Gheb's points against Kantrip, so I can know where your head is at. (Not that I'm someone important, but I'm the only confirmed town)

Sorry, I was actually in band class and wanted to get home before doing a full response. I was scrolling and for some reason my phone registered a tap, but the tap was in a bad place and I remembered that I can't unlike stuff. Glad Dastrn brought that up at the beginning of the game lol.

Post #287 - not sure what the point of this one is supposed to be. It's pretty much the first of his posts that has any substance and it basically says that he hates what Maven is saying and therefore reads him as town because a scumbag wouldn't post something like that [???]. It's a fairly random comment to make on a fairly inconsequential post.

I think that he was just putting his opinion out there as he was reading, since that was a pretty big point of debate early-game. He may have liked a lot of things Maven was saying other than that post because he didn't state a cause and effect, but I agree that he just kinda tacked on the Maven town read on the end of that without explanation.

Post #289 and Post #290 - both of these look pretty bad to me. #289 essentially tries to paint Dastrn's mechanical approach as something inherently scummy and his claim that Dastrn tried to fish for pro-town credit by trying to get us out of RVS is an exaggeration. IIRC Dastrn had only mentioned it once at the very beginning of one of his posts and never actually made a deal out of it. Fact of that matter is, if you atually read through all of his posts, you'd see Dastrn's mechanic/inactivity talk hasn't really kept him [or anybody else] from involving people in the scumhunting process. I suspect Kantrip isn't actually reading the game and just pretends to have stuff to say [see: previous point]. All of his points in #290 are very superficial and could have easily been made up on the spot. They don't actually tell us anything.

I concur with most of this, but he stated two reasons in his original vote; one of them was on mechanical play (which was interpreted as the main reason because it had the larger portion) and the other was on the Ryu push. It's also fair to note that everything in #290 had already been said by various people throughout the game, other than the point on Gheb quizzing TSYK.
Post #296 suddenly claims that he doesn't actually have an issue with Dastrn's mechanical play despite the fact that in 289 Kantrip complains about his "horrendous walls of mafia theory". Now his main issue is Dastrn's "bad" push on Ryu [something Kantrip hadn't mentioned before even once] and he suppsedly "doesn't give a ****" about Dastrn's mechanical play anymore. Ignoring the fact that we're dealing with a massive contradiction here Kantrip owes us an explanation what about the push was supposedly so bad as well. I think it's well established by now that people who haven't played with Ryu a lot before tend to read him as suspicious so it shouldn't be much of a surprise for Kantrip that something like that would happen.[/quote]
It's not a huge contradiction because he has kept with one of the same reasons all the way through questioning (he still says that he stuck with the Dastrn pressure because he didn't like Dastrn's Ryu push), but I agree that saying he didn't use the mechanical play as a reason at all is kinda concerning (based on how much time he spent on the subject originally).

Post #302 and Post #314 are solid posts and I'm not sure why Dastrn isn't pushing that issue any further.

Because Kantrip decided to drop the whole Dastrn push once he saw it was becoming a meta argument instead of actual scumhunting going on.

To me it seems fairly easy to see that Kantrip was hoping to use the whole "Dastrn has a mechanical approach to mafia which isn't well appreciated in dGames"-approach for an easy to push. As Dastrn correctly pointed out Kantrip has left himself a few backdoors open which is probably the strongest tells of them all [for instance Kantrip could've just hopped off a hypothetical Dastrn wagon, refer to whatever little qualifier he hid somewhere in his posts as reasoning and then look good upon a town!Dastrn flip]. So the way I see it Kantrip was just looking for something that allowed him to fake productive input while leaving himself a backdoor to dip as soon **** was about to get serious. But it looks like he bit off more than he could chew because he wasn't really reading anything beyond the very surface layers [which is something I'd consider scummy in itself depending on context].

How would challenging Dastrn's meta be an easy push? We already established that he had some catch-up to do meta-wise, and Dastrn was pretty townie in a lot of people's eyes at the time, not to mention one of the most active players. Unless he just flat-out didn't read the game, I think that scum!Kantrip wouldn't have gone to Dastrn looking for an easy push.

Incidentally, between #315 and 317 tries to assure us that a.) Kantrip doesn't actually read Dastrn as scum but in a magic turn of events as town [nevermind the fact that Kantrip is still voting him anyway!] b.) it was all some sort of misunderstanding based on a gut feeling that Kantrip doesn't actually mean to pursue [despite already having done so] c.) it was actually kinda Dastrn because arguing with him is supposedly "frustrating".

As already mentioned, that could have been an attempt to avoid another huge time-wasting meta discussion. Then again, I never considered the possibility of Kantrip disengaging because he wanted to prevent himself from looking worse and quit while the debate was still fairly young... That's an interesting idea.

Then Kantrip resorted to not actually having any scumread, using a general lack of activity in this game as an excuse to not really go beyond reading dudes as null [post #322] and blending.

I hope that's good enough for you all.

That wasn't really a read list, that was more of a post in response to the thread activity.

All in all, I think that Kantrip's alignment is largely dependent upon how you view the situation. If you look at it with a mentality of scum!Kantrip, you can say that he backtracked, avoided posting reads and copped out by saying most of the thread is null from inactivity, he wants to stay on everyone's good side and isn't giving out scumreads, he is giving out town reads to everyone who is active, he uses other people's ideas to make it look like he's generating content, and he crumbles at the first sight of pressure. If you approach him with a town!Kantrip mentality, though, you can say that he's trying to support a policy lynch to ensure a more active tomorrow (sounds like a slogan of the future lol), he's being honest when he says that he has no scum reads instead of making up garbage, he's positively reinforcing everyone's points, he is trying to push people he beleives to have a possibility of being scum (even if everyone else thinks he's town), and then he stops a conversation once he sees it going down a path of wasting town's time.

I'm not quite sure which side to believe (at this point I'm leaning more towards null/weak scum), but I can't deny that knowing Kantrip's alignment would make looking back at interactions much more interesting. If we go with a PL, that would give us no interactions to go off of and we risk being in the same spot tomorrow as we have been today. I'm willing to compromise to Kantrip, but want to see how he handles this situation before placing down a vote on anyone.

 

[Spak]

EDIT: Third block should look like this:

I concur with most of this, but he stated two reasons in his original vote; one of them was on mechanical play (which was interpreted as the main reason because it had the larger portion) and the other was on the Ryu push. It's also fair to note that everything in #290 had already been said by various people throughout the game, other than the point on Gheb quizzing TSYK.

Post #296 suddenly claims that he doesn't actually have an issue with Dastrn's mechanical play despite the fact that in 289 Kantrip complains about his "horrendous walls of mafia theory". Now his main issue is Dastrn's "bad" push on Ryu [something Kantrip hadn't mentioned before even once] and he suppsedly "doesn't give a ****" about Dastrn's mechanical play anymore. Ignoring the fact that we're dealing with a massive contradiction here Kantrip owes us an explanation what about the push was supposedly so bad as well. I think it's well established by now that people who haven't played with Ryu a lot before tend to read him as suspicious so it shouldn't be much of a surprise for Kantrip that something like that would happen.

It's not a huge contradiction because he has kept with one of the same reasons all the way through questioning (he still says that he stuck with the Dastrn pressure because he didn't like Dastrn's Ryu push), but I agree that saying he didn't use the mechanical play as a reason at all is kinda concerning (based on how much time he spent on the subject originally).

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Vote: Kantrip


#HBC | Red Ryu

I understand that voting for inactives is good, but how much information will that get us? Lynching Kantrip would get us the most information right now, wouldn't it?

It would and I will switch if need be, but Ryker is prod dodging at this point.

 

[Dastrn]

I could be sold on a Ryker vote, but I'd really have to reread the game with him as scum in my head to see what makes sense.

 

[#HBC | J]

It's not a vote of him being scum, it's a vote to remove an inactive that is more prod-dodgy.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

It's not a vote of him being scum, it's a vote to remove an inactive that is more prod-dodgy.

All of this.

He is being actively inactive unlike others who or are V/LA.

 

[SlickWylde]

Okay, got it. I'm not against that, but I liked Gheb's case against Kantrip, and I'm keeping my vote on him for the time being. But I won't cry if Ryker dies, and would vote for him over anyone else except Kantrip.

 

[Dastrn]

It's not a vote of him being scum, it's a vote to remove an inactive that is more prod-dodgy.

I see what you and RR are getting at. I still would like to see what it would be like to read Day 1 with "Ryker is scum" glasses to see if it makes anything else make sense.

I'm torn between Lynch Inactives Day 1 and lynching what I believe are good candidates (Kantrip or RR). Salt Mafia is a good example of having a great case to make against someone day 1 that beat out any ideas of lynching the least active players, and it lead to a win. In that case, we had good direction to go D2 based on the flip, and we also had good plans for what to do Night 1 with our night actions based on the flip.

I feel like lynching either of these two I listed are the best bets with those ideas in mind, but with that said, here are the current post counts, including this one:

1. #HBC | Ryker 13
2. Corps Phoenix 17
3. The Man from Delamar 9
4. Maven89 17
5. ASC | Red Ryu 17
6. Gheb_01 24
7. Kantrip 17
8. Spak 21
9. #HBC | J 24
10. ThatSmasherYouKnow 16
11. Dastrn 43
12. SlickWylde 13

Average posts per player: 19.25

Green are the below average posters in quantity.
Blue are the significantly below average posters in quantity.

I only ignored posts that were of no game substance ("oops spell check") or were intended to serve as edits to prior posts ("Oops, that was supposed to say X instead of Y"). I was largely generous, and counted triple posts about the same topic as 3 posts, for example.

Green numbers aren't terribly concerning. Average means that some players have to be below the average, right? No big deal to be 2 posts below the average number. Furthermore, my count is dragging that average higher by about 2.5 posts, so being at 16 or 17 is essentially hitting the average. I work from home in bed, so I have more freedom to hop in and out of the thread sometimes, so it's easier for me to get in a post here and there frequently.

 

[SlickWylde]

Okay then, according to Dastrn's post count, the ones we should watch out for are

Me (Already confirmed town)
Man from Delanor
Ryker

But I also think some people in green belong in the suspicious pile.

ThatSmasherYouKnow has posted more than me, but I think I've given more reads and votes than he has. I haven't heard from Maven in a long time, and don't remember who he's voting for or why.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Okay, reading.

 

[Spak]

Okay then, according to Dastrn's post count, the ones we should watch out for are

Me (Already confirmed town)
Man from Delanor
Ryker

But I also think some people in green belong in the suspicious pile.

ThatSmasherYouKnow has posted more than me, but I think I've given more reads and votes than he has. I haven't heard from Maven in a long time, and don't remember who he's voting for or why.

I've been lynched on day 1 twice

Unvote

Vote: Ryker

He still hasn't unvoted or changed votes from RVS.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

#HBC | Ryker I've been skimming your posts and realized that this one post is almost all of the content you've given us so far. Your other 11 posts have been almost all fluff. I highlighted in green the parts of the post that aren't meta. (pot calling the kettle black here, I've done a lot of meta too, but I've also caught heat for it and defended myself for it. Not going to ignore it in others.)
I'm noticing that you've mostly stuck to the edges of the conversation. I'd like to hear more from you.

Could you give us one strong opinion on something that you haven't yet stated, and perhaps a couple of soft reads? Preferably on things you haven't talked about yet.

That's fair. I haven't DONE very much. At the time I disappeared because I'm a **** head, I hadn't seen much I cared to comment on other than Spak, who didn't give me a response I wanted to pursue. My general Day 1 avenues (being primarily J or his nonposting ilk) weren't worth looking at this time and I was playing from work, so I did very little.

I specifically didn't like Kantrip's post where he tries to reach and call Dastrn bringing up a public knowledge mechanic as specifically scummy, but immediately turns around and dampens its validity. That effectively throws mud at a slot without taking responsibility for it.

In general, I don't like Spak. I think reading TSYK is going to come down to a shot in the dark. I think Kantrip is sus as ****. I think Ruy is probably town. I like J and Dastrn. I think Gheb is null. No one else has given me enough to read them.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I don't give a **** about your mechanical play. I'm voting you because your Ryu push is bad. And to answer yours and Ryker's questions, no I am not seriously pushing you for what you said about liking posts.

What would you have done in that situation?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I actually understood it better and it actually has provided more reads than anyone has currently done. Looking at the faces are like looking at social cues, you can understand it if you look at it closely.

Lmao, the only people who would've been around that long ago are me, J, Gheb, and maybe Ryu?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Dastrn is very frustrating to deal with but I think he's town.

What changed?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Hey you may have missed me asking earlier, but what do you think of Gheb?

#HBC | Ryker - Since you said you would be here today, can you give me thoughts on Dastrn's Ryu vote and Ryu's response to it?

I read Ryu's posts and my eyes glaze over. So many words that say nothing.

Dastrn's push makes sense from his perspective. I think it was solid. I think it looks good on him.

Ryu's response isn't indicative of anything. I fully believe he's taking EE's advice under advisement. I don't think he's the type of player to make up that conversation and its results simply to let him bugger off on giving reads as scum. However, none of that implies he isn't trying to apply new theory after drawing a scum role PM.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

IPost #287 - not sure what the point of this one is supposed to be. It's pretty much the first of his posts that has any substance and it basically says that he hates what Maven is saying and therefore reads him as town because a scumbag wouldn't post something like that [???]. It's a fairly random comment to make on a fairly inconsequential post.

Post #289 and Post #290 - both of these look pretty bad to me. #289 essentially tries to paint Dastrn's mechanical approach as something inherently scummy and his claim that Dastrn tried to fish for pro-town credit by trying to get us out of RVS is an exaggeration. IIRC Dastrn had only mentioned it once at the very beginning of one of his posts and never actually made a deal out of it. Fact of that matter is, if you atually read through all of his posts, you'd see Dastrn's mechanic/inactivity talk hasn't really kept him [or anybody else] from involving people in the scumhunting process. I suspect Kantrip isn't actually reading the game and just pretends to have stuff to say [see: previous point]. All of his points in #290 are very superficial and could have easily been made up on the spot. They don't actually tell us anything.

Post #296 suddenly claims that he doesn't actually have an issue with Dastrn's mechanical play despite the fact that in 289 Kantrip complains about his "horrendous walls of mafia theory". Now his main issue is Dastrn's "bad" push on Ryu [something Kantrip hadn't mentioned before even once] and he suppsedly "doesn't give a ****" about Dastrn's mechanical play anymore. Ignoring the fact that we're dealing with a massive contradiction here Kantrip owes us an explanation what about the push was supposedly so bad as well. I think it's well established by now that people who haven't played with Ryu a lot before tend to read him as suspicious so it shouldn't be much of a surprise for Kantrip that something like that would happen.

Post #302 and Post #314 are solid posts and I'm not sure why Dastrn isn't pushing that issue any further.

To me it seems fairly easy to see that Kantrip was hoping to use the whole "Dastrn has a mechanical approach to mafia which isn't well appreciated in dGames"-approach for an easy to push. As Dastrn correctly pointed out Kantrip has left himself a few backdoors open which is probably the strongest tells of them all [for instance Kantrip could've just hopped off a hypothetical Dastrn wagon, refer to whatever little qualifier he hid somewhere in his posts as reasoning and then look good upon a town!Dastrn flip]. So the way I see it Kantrip was just looking for something that allowed him to fake productive input while leaving himself a backdoor to dip as soon **** was about to get serious. But it looks like he bit off more than he could chew because he wasn't really reading anything beyond the very surface layers [which is something I'd consider scummy in itself depending on context].

Incidentally, between #315 and 317 tries to assure us that a.) Kantrip doesn't actually read Dastrn as scum but in a magic turn of events as town [nevermind the fact that Kantrip is still voting him anyway!] b.) it was all some sort of misunderstanding based on a gut feeling that Kantrip doesn't actually mean to pursue [despite already having done so] c.) it was actually kinda Dastrn because arguing with him is supposedly "frustrating".

Then Kantrip resorted to not actually having any scumread, using a general lack of activity in this game as an excuse to not really go beyond reading dudes as null [post #322] and blending.

I hope that's good enough for you all.

The second and third paragraphs are precisely why I dislike the slot. At the moment, Kantrip is also my leading lynch target.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Unvote

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I'm on mobile so I can't really type a lot, but instead of lynching Kantrip, I think we would be better off lynching someone who seems to be partnering with someone else, or someone who seems incredibly scummy. On the subject of Gheb's post about why he's voting for Kantrip, I can't really choose a side. Both have good points so I'm torn in the middle. Gheb seems very pro town, but if Kantrip flips mafia, then Gheb might not be so pro town, if that makes any sense. I don't think that Gheb has enough strong points to justify his vote, and Kantrip doesn't have enough points to counter Gheb's vote, but the deadline is coming up very soon, and unless someone does something incredibly scummy that would make everyone vote for them, I don't see this game going anywhere soon.

I hate you.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Okay, got it. I'm not against that, but I liked Gheb's case against Kantrip, and I'm keeping my vote on him for the time being. But I won't cry if Ryker dies, and would vote for him over anyone else except Kantrip.

I would cry.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I see what you and RR are getting at. I still would like to see what it would be like to read Day 1 with "Ryker is scum" glasses to see if it makes anything else make sense.

I'm torn between Lynch Inactives Day 1 and lynching what I believe are good candidates (Kantrip or RR). Salt Mafia is a good example of having a great case to make against someone day 1 that beat out any ideas of lynching the least active players, and it lead to a win. In that case, we had good direction to go D2 based on the flip, and we also had good plans for what to do Night 1 with our night actions based on the flip.

You'll never get an RR lynch. It's not on the table. You can't get the votes.

On the subject of inactives, Maven I see, but why is no one talking about Corps?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Okay.

I would lynch Vote Kantrip on the grounds of being a scumbag.

I think we can get the votes necessary for that and I don't think inactivity is likely to be a problem in this game unless it's coming from me. However, if we were to lynch inactive, I would say Maven or Corps.

I think, better than lynching inactive, as a backup lynch we could remove TSYK from the game because I'm becoming increasingly certain that his slot will remain a crap shot.

 

[Spak]

You'll never get an RR lynch. It's not on the table. You can't get the votes.

On the subject of inactives, Maven I see, but why is no one talking about Corps?

Corps actually gave a reason that s/he is V/LA.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I'm caught up, it's off to Street Fighter again.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Corps actually gave a reason that s/he is V/LA.

I missed that. Fair enough.

 

[Dastrn]

#HBC | Laundry Can we have a vote count please?

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

Well, I suppose we could lynch Kantrip for info. Before I place my vote, I'll put my current reads on everyone I have an opinion on in this post.

Kantrip- Slight scum lean, but better off waiting for the flip
Ryker- Depends on what Kantrip flips
Gheb- Town lean, your questioning of me was pro town, that's the reason for the flip
RR- Town lean
Slick-Well, it's pretty obvious, ain't it?
Dastrn-Town
Everything else will have to wait until D2.

Vote: Kantrip