Twisted Fate Mafia [D3 BEGINS, DEADLINE: 3/8 at 11:59 PM EST]

[Maven89]

Mechanical play is one thing, but I really dislike how much time he spent on taking credit for getting the game out of RVS phase and then doing nothing but explaining mafia theory in horrendous walls. Concern about liking posts having the potential to send private information isn't something town would worry about because mafia can send private information to each other all the time anyways. The fact that a very mechanical player was worried about a mechanical advantage from sending private information via likes suggests to me he is mafia worried that town might take advantage of likes to communicate with each other. Of course he could have voiced concerns in private with the mod about this and could just be worried about it in a mafia-theory fairness sense, too.

The bolded is the most worrisome part for me


That was the start of a larger post but I'm at a bar now so it'll happen later, and honestly I'm just posting what I had because it would be annoying to to delete that many times. More later

 

[Spak]

Ryker- Depends on what Kantrip flips

If Kantrip flips scum, what alignment would you suspect Ryker would be? If Kantrip flips town, what alignment would you suspect Ryker would be?

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

Town makes Ryker and Gheb both suspicious, vice versa. Did I not explain that? Oh well, here it is now.

 

[Dastrn]

By my count, we L-3 on Kantrip right now with just about 24 hours to go. Don't take my word for it, though. Go to the end of page 8 (40ppp) and start from there and tell me if I'm missing a vote or an unvote someplace. I don't trust myself to catch every bolded sentence, and you shouldn't either.

Unrelated:

Do any of you think a scum flip on Kantrip would implicate RR at all? I'm curious about how he came against me so hard when I made a case against RR, but backed off when he realized that town wasn't with him at all on that case. I posted somewhere in there that I thought a scum team of the two of them was possible given the relative fairness of my case against RR at the time, and the complete weakness of Kantrip's case against me in response.

In the chance of a town flip, who becomes more suspicious?
We need pretty much everyone to chime in on these questions. Anyone who doesn't talk in some way about the ramifications of this flip.

I'll put my thoughts out there.
Obviously, my opinion is that a scum flip from Kantrip implicates RR to a degree.
A town flip will have me looking more closely at Ryker and Spak, and I'd still honestly be looking closely at RR, but not quite as suspiciously as with a scum flip on Kantrip.

 

[Spak]

I'd be looking at Ryker a bit less if Kantrip flipped scum; I find it hard to believe that Kantrip would have voted a teammate in #363 since out of a group of 5 players, there are 2 or more inactive townies (via PoE). If Kantrip flipped town, I'd be inclined to look at either Ryker (he just came in and voted Kantrip without even talking with the guy; seems a bit triggerhappy) or Gheb (for looking at Kantrip's slot in the worst possible light in the analysis).

However, if we were to lynch inactive, I would say Maven or Corps.

Why not Del? He literally hasn't posted a thing since he came to announce his presence yesterday night.

 

[SlickWylde]

I'd be looking at Ryker a bit less if Kantrip flipped scum; I find it hard to believe that Kantrip would have voted a teammate in #363 since out of a group of 5 players, there are 2 or more inactive townies (via PoE). If Kantrip flipped town, I'd be inclined to look at either Ryker (he just came in and voted Kantrip without even talking with the guy; seems a bit triggerhappy) or Gheb (for looking at Kantrip's slot in the worst possible light in the analysis).

Why not Del? He literally hasn't posted a thing since he came to announce
his presence yesterday night.

I have very similar thoughts. Though along with Gheb and Ryker, I think Dastrn will come off a little negative too.

 

[Dastrn]

I have very similar thoughts. Though along with Gheb and Ryker, I think Dastrn will come off a little negative too.

Why specifically? He came after me, and all of the heat on him is because of his attack, not my defense.

I'm not concerned that you're having this thought, I'm more just curious if you've seen something about my interactions with him to give you that impression other than "He just seems to be Kantrip's enemy" that would make you think I must be on the opposite team.

 

[SlickWylde]

Why specifically? He came after me, and all of the heat on him is because of his attack, not my defense.

I'm not concerned that you're having this thought, I'm more just curious if you've seen something about my interactions with him to give you that impression other than "He just seems to be Kantrip's enemy" that would make you think I must be on the opposite team.

Mostly just that. He came after you, so if he flips town, you will come off looking slightly more guilty. But you're still not on the top of my list. (If I'm understanding your question correctly)

 

[Corps phoenix]

Why did Spak respond to Gheb's accusation on Kantrip like he was the one being accused?

 

[Corps phoenix]

My thoughts haven't changed much. Gheb pulling out the stops on Kantrip was surprising to say the least, moreso that you can somehow make a whole case based on two or three posts. I don't know if anyone asked me if I played Mafia before but yes I have played mafia like I play it right now.

Game has been going at a steady pace so it's a headscratcher that we have people asking for a policy/inactive lynch. I want to lynch somewhere between the center of TSYK, Gheb and Spak but if I had to choose out of the two I'd pick TSYK. I add Gheb/Spak there because I think one of them is Mafia but not the other, especially telling that Spak went out of his way to fully drop a post like thay. Sole impression of Kantrip so far is that "reads too far into things" and I don't believe his behavior of reading too far into Dastrn's meta is scummy, especially when I did it myself. The notion of Spak defending his partner (Kantrip) in the way he did is unfathomable to me and I have overall not liked Spak even if I came to his side before and didn't see why he was being voted earlier. My reasoning back then being he was caught in a RVS situation and him responding anyway where people were treating it RVS would just be determined null, but there's a lack of initiative on his end and it boggles my mind that someone can again - respond like he was writing a case about a case that didn't even mention him. Sole impression of him is that he likes to cover all his bases which I do not like because it looks like he doesn't want to slip up so he tries to preach to the choir; If Dastrn had an evil twin it would be Spak.

in this case of where I see TSYK: "Noobtown" is an umbrella statement. If you look at the times TSYK has taken the time to actually act upon his questioning and need to fit himself between everyone you would see that there is 0 times. I don't think this is townie behavior.

 

[Corps phoenix]

Gheb is less in the center and I just heavily dislike him being able to somehow find a way and drop a whole case on someone just like that. I admit that I did not read into it much but when I see walls of that size being made I usually assume they are either being incredibly preachy or they're pulling something out of the rear end.

 

[Corps phoenix]

Vote: TSYK

I have content now?

 

[#HBC | J]

You were doing so well in my book till I saw the TSYK vote.

How sad.

 

[Corps phoenix]

Do you believe he's just noobtown too?

 

[#HBC | J]

Currently, I see nothing that really swings him as noobtown or noobscum besides just noob. (No offense broskii.)

That fact that you feel TSYK is the strongest lynch of toDay especially with inactives and the juicy interaction of Gheb/Kanty with a weird post from Sparky which you pointed out.

It's just such a cop-out to say "Let's lynch TSYK! He's confusing and could be noobtown OR noobscum.". I won't be voting him unless supple reasoning is provided more so of "I have a feel".

I'll be voting one of Maven, lesser extant Delly if he doesn't post, and once I read Gheb's case I'll pick a side of the Gheb vs. Kanty debacle. That's where I feel today's lynch should lead.

 

[Corps phoenix]

If it eases your mind I will happily swing to either, I just felt TSYK would be the best vote from a standpoint that he will remain a crapshoot as Ryker put it, but I don't believe he's unreadable however.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Votecount incoming.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Votecount 1.2

1. #HBC | Ryker: Spak > Corps > Spak > Kantrip
2. Corps Phoenix: Dastrn > TSYK
3. The Man from Delamar: Slick > Spak
4. Maven89: Slick > Ryker
5. ASC | Red Ryu: Spak > Ryker >
6. Gheb_01: Ryker > The Man > Kantrip
7. Kantrip: Dastrn > Ryker
8. Spak: Ryker >
9. #HBC | J: The Man
10. ThatSmasherYouKnow: Kantrip
11. Dastrn: Spak > Ruy
12. SlickWylde: Dastrn > Kantrip

Not voting: Spak, Ruy

Count
Kantrip (4): Gheb, Slick, Ryker, TSYK
Ryker (2): Maven, Kantrip
Spak (1): The Man
The Man (1): J
Ruy (1): Dastrn
TSYK (1): Corps

I will update this again with at least eight hours before deadline. Deadline is in 22 hours.​

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

If it eases your mind I will happily swing to either, I just felt TSYK would be the best vote from a standpoint that he will remain a crapshoot as Ryker put it, but I don't believe he's unreadable however.

I believe that reading him will be unreliable no matter when we do it.

If J thinks that Meven/Del are scummy, then I missed it. I don't think we've seen indicators that they will be activity issues. Therefore, I am confused why he thinks they would be a better lynch that TSYK if he's null.

Except I do know why, he's J and would rather lynch established players than be mean to a newbie.

I say we lynch Kantrip, but I think that TSYK is EASILY the best fallback lynch and Maven as a fallback lynch would need to be explained to me.

 

[Kantrip]

Corps do you think Spak is defending me for town points should I get lynched and flip town?

 

[#HBC | J]

He's been more prod dodgy then you without a declared V/LA would be a good explanation there. (talking about Maven) I've not said a word regarding Maven/Delly being scummy. There have been indicators that Maven's spotty activity and continuous broken words of saying "I'll be here to post something" and then doesn't come through with anything or very little.

And I wouldn't say that I wouldn't lynch TSYK, I just see no reason to besides mere frustration at a slot no one wants to take the time to read in detail because of his posting style. That's where I am seeing the main reason for wanting to lynch that slot and I am not for lynching a player based on posting style and no one has really pointed out a red-flag reason to lynch him.

I'll also say that I wouldn't choose to lynch Maven/Delly as my top choices either. That's merely an option I am seeing as something that could happen. I want to look more into who I want to vote in the Gheb/Kanty debate (and minorly Sparky because I remember looking at his wall and seeing something on a cursory glance that made me falter in looking at Sparky with town-glasses). I would rather lynch in between those two because we have information to gain from lynching them and the probability of either of those slots flipping scum seem much higher than that of lynching someone like Maven/Delly/TSYK/Ryker.

 

[Kantrip]

Gheb bugs me because he either majorly fluffed up his case against me for bravado or is scum trying to make his read look stronger than it is.

Spak is off to me.

Maven also bugs me.

TSYK is a crapshoot I have as newbtown but will probably be policy lynched eventually.

That's my lynchpool

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

J, what's your leading lynch target right now?

 

[Dastrn]

I accept the inevitability of the Kantrip lynch. He's the best candidate right now. I'd like to hold my vote back til perhaps the hammer just in case someone jumps the gun and ends conversation abruptly. (See scum lolazerz in Salt Mafia for an example).

I'm around all day today, with the exception of 5-6:15 or so.

Kantrip , I think if you've got stuff to say, now's the time to start talking, because it doesn't appear that you'll have the chance to say much after about 12 hours from now.

 

[Dastrn]

In the chance of a town flip, who becomes more suspicious?
We need pretty much everyone to chime in on these questions. Anyone who doesn't talk in some way about the ramifications of this flip...will probably be seen as intentionally withholding their stance, which I will read as scummy. Your opinion on this flip and what it means to this game is important.

The green text above was ADDED just now, since I can't edit, and when I read back, I saw that I didn't finish my sentence...my bad on the incomplete thought there.

Mostly just that. He came after you, so if he flips town, you will come off looking slightly more guilty. But you're still not on the top of my list. (If I'm understanding your question correctly)

Why, though? Are you saying that a town flip means that whoever they suspected Day 1 is likely to be scum? On what grounds? Day 1 reads don't have concrete information behind them. They are by nature just reads. If he is town (which we're not sure about) and misread me (as most of you believe, perhaps not all), we might be lynching a townie. Combining those two things, we're still left with a group that believes he was misreading me and making a poor case. A townie can do that just as easily as mafia trying to deliberately manufacture a case, particularly Day 1.

I wouldn't buy this logic regardless of whether it was about me or not, and I would be challenging it with the same amount of energy.

 

[Kantrip]

I really suggest we lynch elsewhere toDay.

I've given my scum reads and I will be looking into Ryker toNight.

 

[Kantrip]

Although I want Corps phoenix to respond on the matter I do want to get it out there that I dislike Spak's response to my wagon. He's probably my biggest scumread at this point as I'm waffling on Gheb's intent for how he's pushing me and my Maven read is mostly a gut feel.

Dastrn what would my town flip do to your Ryu read? Who would you look into more on a town flip from me?

 

[Kantrip]

What would you have done in that situation?

What situation? Dastrn's? I would've contacted the mod via PM if something about the rules confused or concerned me.

 

[Kantrip]

What changed?

Interacting with him. Specifically that he thought I was chainsaw defending Ryu so early in the game. Made me realize his analysis was pretty surface level and that he probably actually bought into his Ryu push.

 

[Kantrip]

The second and third paragraphs are precisely why I dislike the slot. At the moment, Kantrip is also my leading lynch target.

I'll be the first to admit posting my thoughts on Dastrn's liking posts concerns and the like was stupid as they were fleeting thoughts while I read.

However I will stress again I never called his mechanical playstyle inherently scummy and I would argue after I dropped the dumb stuff that everything I have done has been intuitive.

Also,

Vote: Spak

 

[SlickWylde]

The green text above was ADDED just now, since I can't edit, and when I read back, I saw that I didn't finish my sentence...my bad on the incomplete thought there.


Why, though? Are you saying that a town flip means that whoever they suspected Day 1 is likely to be scum? On what grounds? Day 1 reads don't have concrete information behind them. They are by nature just reads. If he is town (which we're not sure about) and misread me (as most of you believe, perhaps not all), we might be lynching a townie. Combining those two things, we're still left with a group that believes he was misreading me and making a poor case. A townie can do that just as easily as mafia trying to deliberately manufacture a case, particularly Day 1.

I wouldn't buy this logic regardless of whether it was about me or not, and I would be challenging it with the same amount of energy.

I have no issues with you calling me out on my logic, and in fact I invite it. I think my problem is that I rely too much on my gut, and at the beginning of the game my gut feeling was that you were scum, and I think that I was allowing myself to go back down that path if Kantrip were to flip town. So there wasn't much logic behind this, unfortunately. So that was my bad.

I'll have to think more about this before I give a good answer. Even if he flips town, that doesn't make his reads any more correct. However, Spak has been playing it pretty safe with voting for Ryker instead of Kantrip, so if Kantrip flips scum, I'll take that into consideration.

I suppose you'll be null at that point. Even though Gheb is leading the charge, I'll still have him slightly town because his argument made sense to me.

 

[Maven89]

I'm about to go to class, I have a post written up, but before I post it

Dastrn Give me a wall defending why you refuse to vote for Kantrip, and specifics about what this "more" is that you want and why Gheb's posts/your posts didn't match it.

 

[Maven89]

As far as I'm concerned that's the biggest question people need to be asking right now

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

I'm about to go to class, I have a post written up, but before I post it

Dastrn Give me a wall defending why you refuse to vote for Kantrip, and specifics about what this "more" is that you want and why Gheb's posts/your posts didn't match it.

I'm pretty sure Dastrn explained that the "more" was because Gheb ninja'd him.

 

[SlickWylde]

Maven89 I would normally tell TSYK to let Dastrn answer for himself, but in this case I believe he's correct. Dastrn said "more" and then said "oops ninja'd" on the next page, because he had posted his "more" before he saw Gheb's full case against Kantrip.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I don't get why Dastrn is against Kantrip now of all times. Given what he thought of Kantrip earlier I would have thought he was going to be strongly for lynching Kantrip.

Is he mostly again why Gheb posted why he wanted it?

Is there something inheritly wrong with what Spak posted? Some people hinted that he would be mafia aiming for points on a town flip but why are we jumping to that conclusion? Is there something in there that screams aiming for credit over him having an issue with Gheb's case?

Ok with Ryker now,

J I want to buddy with.

Dastrn is town but I predict he will tunnel me this game.

Spak's main contribution is his post against Gheb's case, I want to reread it all to see what he said in detail.

I agree with Ryker TSYK will be hard to read.

Pretty sold on Gheb's case on Kantrip and the tidbit Ryker pointed out.

No idea on The Man from Delamar

Maven just needs to post more.

Gheb will take time for me to read into.

Still kind of not a fan of the Corps Phoenix slot but I would admit I don't think my reasons are strong and the slots play has improved at least.

SlickWylde is obviously mafia.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Vote: Kantrip

L-2

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

He's been more prod dodgy then you without a declared V/LA would be a good explanation there. (talking about Maven) I've not said a word regarding Maven/Delly being scummy. There have been indicators that Maven's spotty activity and continuous broken words of saying "I'll be here to post something" and then doesn't come through with anything or very little.

And I wouldn't say that I wouldn't lynch TSYK, I just see no reason to besides mere frustration at a slot no one wants to take the time to read in detail because of his posting style. That's where I am seeing the main reason for wanting to lynch that slot and I am not for lynching a player based on posting style and no one has really pointed out a red-flag reason to lynch him.

I'll also say that I wouldn't choose to lynch Maven/Delly as my top choices either. That's merely an option I am seeing as something that could happen. I want to look more into who I want to vote in the Gheb/Kanty debate (and minorly Sparky because I remember looking at his wall and seeing something on a cursory glance that made me falter in looking at Sparky with town-glasses). I would rather lynch in between those two because we have information to gain from lynching them and the probability of either of those slots flipping scum seem much higher than that of lynching someone like Maven/Delly/TSYK/Ryker.

Can you elaborate on the bolded?

 

[Dastrn]

I'm about to go to class, I have a post written up, but before I post it

Dastrn Give me a wall defending why you refuse to vote for Kantrip, and specifics about what this "more" is that you want and why Gheb's posts/your posts didn't match it.

I wanted more than what I already said. I was hoping that someone had something to add to the case than what I already complained about. Just having someone parrot what I said and make it into a vote (wagon) wasn't anything new, and I wanted to hear something I hadn't heard. A case I hadn't already made myself. I didn't need massive proof. It's Day 1. I just hoped something different would be said.

WALL
WALL
WALL
WALL
WALL
WALL
WALL

Is that a big enough wall or shall I go on?

 

[Dastrn]

Oh I forgot the first question....derp.

It's not that I "refuse to vote for Kantrip." It's that I don't like fast hammers and when you put someone at L-2 or L-1 with 16 hours to go, sometimes people get jumpy or don't know the vote count and end the day while we're waiting for questions to be answered. (I already gave Salt Mini Mafia as a great example of a scum-mate lynching his partner 9 minutes after asking him for explanations, when we still had 24 hours or so left in the Day.)

I don't like early hammers, so I sometimes hold my vote a little. I'm obviously a very active player, so I'm not concerned about me forgetting to vote and ending in a No Lynch. I'll get my vote in.