Twisted Fate Mafia [D3 BEGINS, DEADLINE: 3/8 at 11:59 PM EST]

[Spak]

Explain your town lean on Gheb

I was just about to post a wall on how Gheb was a town lean, but then Xastrn posted his wall on why he thinks Gheb is scum. I compared the walls and it turns out he countered all of my points before I made them. Gheb just jumped numerous places on my scumlist; I'll be around to vote near deadline if needed.

Also, Xastres is confirmed as a mindreader.

 

[Spak]

Also, I really need to finish the civics Amendments project now; I'll be out until I finish or tomorrow afternoon (whichever comes first).

 

[Maven89]

I was just about to post a wall on how Gheb was a town lean, but then Xastrn posted his wall on why he thinks Gheb is scum. I compared the walls and it turns out he countered all of my points before I made them. Gheb just jumped numerous places on my scumlist; I'll be around to vote near deadline if needed.

Also, Xastres is confirmed as a mindreader.

Honestly this is still suspect as **** to me. I'm not sure what to make of it. I

 

[Xatres]

Xatres If Gheb flips scum, how do you explain a scum spak's motivation for blasting his kantrip case so hard. Like he argued for himself (I linked it above), if he was scum, the easiest thing would have been to let it happen without fighting so hard to point out his perceived flaws in the case, wouldn't it?

I find it almost impossible that they are SvS

I'd do it.

I'll have to track down the old mini thread, but Rake and I won a game as scummates because of something like this. I tunneled him straight out the gate. He was lynched D1. And from that point on no one thought it was possible I could be scum.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

#HBC | Laundry prods/warnings to missing players please?

It's basically just TSYK. Ruy, Corps, J, and Ryker have all posted within the last 24 hours last I checked.

Either way, votecount incoming.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Votecount 2.3

1. #HBC | Ryker: J
2. Corps Phoenix: Spak > Maven
3. Xatres: Ryker > Gheb
4. Maven89: Gheb
5. ASC | Red Ryu: Spak >
6. Gheb_01: Ryker
7. Spak: Xatres > Ryker >
8. #HBC | J: Ryker
9. ThatSmasherYouKnow: Gheb >
10. Dastrn: Ryker > Gheb

Not voting: Corps, Gheb, TSYK, Ruy, Spak

Count
Gheb (3): Maven, Dastrn, Xatres
Ryker (2): J, Gheb
J (1): Ryker
Maven (1): Corps

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch!

Deadline is 2/28 at 11:59 PM EST.

#HBC | Red Ryu and ThatSmasherYouKnow have been prodded.​

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

Vote:Gheb I'm convinced that he's been scum and have been since Kantrip flipped town.

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

Darn this stupid bold feature that doesn't work Vote:Gheb

 

[Spak]

Vote:Gheb I'm convinced that he's been scum and have been since Kantrip flipped town.

This post is bad. You do nothing all phase, then as soon as you get back in thread, you go to the most popular vote with one of the worst reasons I've ever seen. If we were to scumread everyone who supported the Kantrip lynch, we'd have 7 Mafia (including a confirmed townie). I feel like you have some unanswered questions/rebuttals, but it's been so long since you've been here that I forget what/where they were.

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

This post is bad. You do nothing all phase, then as soon as you get back in thread, you go to the most popular vote with one of the worst reasons I've ever seen. If we were to scumread everyone who supported the Kantrip lynch, we'd have 7 Mafia (including a confirmed townie). I feel like you have some unanswered questions/rebuttals, but it's been so long since you've been here that I forget what/where they were.

This site takes so long to load pages, it's a pain to post. I'm gonna try to do my best to answer the questions I was asked, but it might take a while so be patient

 

[Spak]

This site takes so long to load pages, it's a pain to post. I'm gonna try to do my best to answer the questions I was asked, but it might take a while so be patient

Adblocked Chrome is your friend.

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

Yo dude.

Remember that one time during Day 1 when I didn't immediately post my case on Kantrip and got called out for it? What was is I supposed to do?

I agree with this post. Gheb didn't really have a choice, so he posted his case.

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

Adblocked Chrome is your friend.

Not when you're using a broken rental school computer that won't load a single piece of, you get the idea

 

[Corps phoenix]

#HBC | Laundry

I'm voting Maven.

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

Let me ask you this, TSYK: Are you scum or town? Answer using at least 3 sentences.

-_-. If I answer town, then you'll call me scum. If I answer scum, you'll lynch me. I don't know how to answer to this.

 

[Spak]

-_-. If I answer town, then you'll call me scum. If I answer scum, you'll lynch me. I don't know how to answer to this.

You're supposed to answer town and justify yourself (thus the "at least 3 sentences").

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

I'd settle for a policy lynch on TSYK if I had to. Even his activity is essentially not playing the game. It's a waste of a slot, and is starting to smell more and more of "I'm scum but I don't know what to do so I'll just kinda poke around and linger as long as I can." Not a fan.

This makes a lot of sense. It is true that I'm pretty much wasting a slot. I haven't really contributed anything of real value, so yeah, you're right. If anyone feels like lynching me, go ahead and vote, but I'm just saying, it won't give town any real info as no one has really aggresively attacked me, and it won't really benefit the mafia as I'm not a PR.

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

You're supposed to answer town and justify yourself (thus the "at least 3 sentences").

Okay, thanks for clearing that up . I'm not really able to justify myself. As I said in the post above, I haven't contributed much other than adding one extra vote, but if I really was scum I wouldn't be as willing to sacrifice myself, and if I was scum, I wouldn't be pointing that out in this post. I haven't added anything of weight, mostly just watching how things play out, you're right. I honestly feel, that even if I do post I would get some response saying: "Wtf is this supposed to mean" or "Whoa, thx for finally catching on with that push from 5 pages ago", leading to me being discouraged from posting much. Now, I know that I'm town, but you guys don't, so if you are okay with killing me, go ahead, but if I were you, I would at least wait until killing me would give any info.

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

If he walls on the scummiest thing posted all phase, wall and lynch are justified. Additionally, you can't have a trend if you only have one instance of a situation.

OF COURSE I CAN'T HAVE A TREND. I'm simply pointing it out, saying why I think Gheb is scum, warning you to watch out for this kind of behavior and that's it. I never said "Well, since it happened once let's lynch him"

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

oh, broke the quote feature I hope you can understand it, the smaller quote is my response

As much as I want the TSYK slot to be gone, I'm not sure if we should do a PL into a possible MyLo/LyLo; that would give us little to no information for D3 off of the flip and from the looks of it, we need all of the info we can get.

I guess I probably should've read this post before posting #818 because now I'm gonna be called out on it. This is just a disclaimer that I didn't see this post

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I feel like all of my options blow ass. I'm going to be repeating myself somewhat, but I'll go through my list anyway.

J's exit to day one was extremely convenient and I hate it. His current Day 2 content is centered on me and I hate it too.

Spak looked significantly worse Day 1 than Day 2. I think he and Gheb are not scum together.

Corps I like. I like his direction, like that he's putting time into the game when he could let it sink, I like that he's trying to push town to actually act productively.

Dastrn, I maintain, is town or we lose.

Xatres, similar to Corps, has been putting in effort to keep the game afloat when just letting it sink would win scum the game. Town.

Maven is all over the place on my scum list. I keep skipping him and waiting for a chance to go back and read him. If Gheb flips scum, Maven is definitely not scum. If Maven flips scum, Gheb is definitely not scum.

Reading TSYK makes me want to put my face in a blender. Null.

Red Ryu hasn't DONE anything lately. I really want to see what he does about current events in the thread.

Gheb I don't hate immensely, but I don't have anything that stands out to save him. I think both the vote he made on Kantrip, while wrong, makes sense and I can buy that he thought deadline was earlier, but if not presented with a better option, I will lynch him because his scumflip would be extremely convenient. Note: I would rather lynch one of the inactives because I think they are about as equal a chance to hit scum.


Entirely ordered within the tiers, here's my list at the moment.

Town:

Dastrn
Corps
Xatres

Null:

RR
TSYK
Maven

Scum Lean:

J
Spak
Gheb

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

I feel like this game is a mess, and most of it is on my shoulders. It's posts like this one:

It's become worse than a scum-tell. It's a "ruining D-games and should land you on an unwelcome list" tell.

That make me want to just quit this game and call in a sub, but that's what I did last time, and I don't want to do it again. I'm doing my best to stay in the game, to contribute, to have fun, to make friends. But if I get posts like this, I just become unmotivated to post. If you would like me to contribute and help, act like I'm a dog. You wouldn't slap a dog for not fetching. When he would fetch, you would give him attention and praise him. It's a little thing called positive reinforcement. It's been proven to work better than punishing people who don't do what you want I understand that you're frustrated and everything, but please do not personally attack me. It will only make me play worse. I know this post has nothing of real value in terms of the game, but it's something I needed to get off of my chest.

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

Finished my D2 reread. Here's a summary of my thoughts on Spak and Gheb.

1) Gheb has indeed been opportunistic and is currently advocating for anti-town policies.

2) Spak gave off some scumtells early D1. His defense of Kantrip is null without more context/flips. And most of his posting since then has been ABOUT his defense of Kantrip.

Long version:

1) Gheb has been opportunistic the whole game. As the game was exiting RVS, Gheb asked if there was a consensus to lynch inactives if they were still an issue at the end of the Day. When everyone agreed, he said 'Awesome!' and threw a vote on MFD (my slot).He was also among the players criticizing Dastrn for his mechanical play, and yet built his case on Kantrip in part because of Kantrip's own annoyance towards it. Then, after Spak's defense/devil's advocate post, we got this in Gheb's #467:

"I'm not sure what Spak was thinking when he went ham on my case especially since I hadn't even responded to Kantrip's counter-argument at that point. Worth lynching him for? I'm not entirely against it I guess."

Gheb set himself up to swing to Spak if need be.

Then, during the Ryker wagon and AFTER Laundry showed up and cast doubt on Ryker's scumminess, Gheb through a vote on Ryker and put him at L-1. He later claimed that he forgot the deadline was extended.

2) Gheb has been hypocritical. One of Gheb's big criticisms of Maven was that he "showed up at the last minute D1 and pushed bad lynches." However, Gheb posted with 1.5 days left in D1, noted the deadline getting super close, and said "Time to start playing seriously!"

Gheb has also bemoaned the inactivity and perceived crappiness of the game, and yet when Maven bemoaned the same, he agreed with Phoenix's post that Maven is "fear-mongering on the lack of activity."

Finally, as noted above, Gheb himself took issue with Dastrn's mechanical play. Then turned around a used the same initial objection by Kantrip as part of his case against him.

3) Gheb has pushed bad logic all game.

The Kantrip case has already been addressed. Gheb resurrected a dead topic and somehow got town to go along with his garbage case.

When TSYK asked Gheb "what he had to say for himself," after Kantrip flipped town, Gheb said that TSYK was just a liable as he was for the lynch. He said he was only 1/7 of the votes and everyone on that wagon was calpable. Except that Gheb started that wagon. He started a wagon on a dead issue. He's more culpable than anyone else. That doesn't make him scum on its own, but arguing that he's not more responsible for the mislynch is disingenuous and scummy.

His current arguments for lynching inactives rather than players we have actually scumminess from reaks. Inactives are a problem, I admit. But I will not lynch an inactive/semi-active player over someone with as many scum-tells as Gheb has right now.

His entire Maven traitor case was weak from the start. That's the kind of argument you make to support other evidence, not the kind of argument that can support a lynch on its own. And later on Gheb even admitted that he had no counterarguments for Maven's defense.

Gheb suggesting we lynch Dastrn if we are serious about looking for info speaks for itself.

Finally, we have this gem:

"What's up with you two guys pretending to have use for "data". Like, lynching pro-active slots at this point is so ridiculously counter-productive I can't believe you guys earnestly suggest to do that and just not give a **** about the people that actually ruin this game.

The truth is that at this rate we have to prevent the worst from happening before we can go on the offense. We're currently losing the game and the last thing I want is lylo to be up to like TSYK, Ryu and Corps to make the right call. If that's your plan you might as well give up the game right now, it amounts to pretty much to same tbh."

First of all: One mislynch is not "losing the game."
Second of all: Saying Corps has been inactive is patently false. His activity comes in waves (as does mine), but he's been a semi-stable presence most of the game.
Third and finally: Arguing that "data" is useless is ridiculous. The whole point of mafia is the management of data. Scum hides data from town. Town discovers data from interactions, PRs, and flips. PRs hide among the town to avoid getting shot and reveal their data when the timing is right. Data management is the ESSENCE of mafia. Arguing that we should sacrifice learning for a policy lynch is absurd.

All that being said.

Unvote

Vote: Gheb

Yes. This is EXACTLY why I think Gheb is scum

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

All right, I think that's everything. If you still want questions answered, post them now and I'll answer them.

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

Oh, and forgot to respond to this:

If we were to scumread everyone who supported the Kantrip lynch, we'd have 7 Mafia (including a confirmed townie).

I never said that everyone who was voting for Kantrip was scum, heck, I voted for Kantrip, but almost everyone agreed that lynching Kantrip for info was better than lynching no one, leading to the Kantrip lynch, while Gheb was basically the guy who started the wagon and then just watched the town tear itself apart.

 

[Dastrn]

I feel like this game is a mess, and most of it is on my shoulders. It's posts like this one:

That make me want to just quit this game and call in a sub, but that's what I did last time, and I don't want to do it again. I'm doing my best to stay in the game, to contribute, to have fun, to make friends. But if I get posts like this, I just become unmotivated to post. If you would like me to contribute and help, act like I'm a dog. You wouldn't slap a dog for not fetching. When he would fetch, you would give him attention and praise him. It's a little thing called positive reinforcement. It's been proven to work better than punishing people who don't do what you want I understand that you're frustrated and everything, but please do not personally attack me. It will only make me play worse. I know this post has nothing of real value in terms of the game, but it's something I needed to get off of my chest.

I worked in behavioral science for a decade. (I just deleted a big paragraph about my work credentials, but it's a waste of time and will just sound like bragging....)

I'd say if anyone wants to know if I've been patient with you and done my best to lead in a positive way, they can go read the atrociously short Turing 1v1 game "we" just finished today. I did everything I could to coach you through playing that game. You didn't need encouragement. You didn't respond to any of coaching. You were just unwilling to play, and posted 1 sentence over the final THREE DAYS of a 1 v 1 game.

I want D-Games to have lots of players, and if you're interested in these games, then that's great, but if you're going to sign up and just waste people's time like you did in the Turing game or like you have been in this one, then you have to be able to predict that it's going to be frustrating for the rest of us to deal with. We've communicated expectations about frequency of posting. We've given positive examples for you to follow.

Even when we bicker at each other, at least it's usually about the game and clever little lies we're playing. That's supposed to happen. But when people simply don't show up to play, I'd rather see a blacklist so we can actually fill our games with active players only and at least get the experience we signed up for. I don't play in full-size games very often any more, and it's frustrating to me to come specifically because someone I previously played with asked for me to join, only to have the game devolve so quickly into what it has.

When the game rules say that a player has to post at least once every 24 hours, that isn't setting a goal. That's setting a floor. This game is meant to be interactive. If we each showed up once per day, burped out what we thought of the last 24 hours of posts, and then left until tomorrow's time to post again, we'd barely have a game to play at all, and none of us would be doing this. The exciting stuff is when you have 5 or 6 or 7 people in the thread at once all making posts on top of each other, and lots of cross talk and opinions and disagreements and all of that. Solving that excitement is why many of us play.

So.

Yes, you've been attacked. Not because you're a bad person. I don't know you. For all I know, you're my wife trolling me on her iPad as I type this, just to ask me why I'm up so late and who I'm talking to. You're being attacked because despite my efforts (and the efforts of others) to show you how to play and to try to convince you to be present in the game, you've been a non-player. A spectator. And we're stuck deciding whether to lynch someone we think is scummy or to policy lynch you for being inactive. If you're town and we policy lynch you toDay, that's almost a guarantee that town loses. The entire fate of the game that 12 people signed up for and a mod planned and worked on can be decided just by your behavior. You have to own that. Laundry didn't make this game thinking "Boy, I hope that half the players barely post. I hope that they are making policy lynches for inactivity 2 Days into my game..." No mod wishes for that. They want to see every lynch be about the interaction between players, not the distinct lack thereof.

I'm done now. I wall of text every once in a while. I'm not going to talk directly to you about this any more. I've said what I believe, and I am tired of spending time on it.
If you want to participate, just keep doing what you've done in the last 90 minutes. Be a presence. Make your presence known. Everything will be fine.

 

[Dastrn]

I just saw your last post in the turing game now. (That game is over, everyone, just to be clear.)

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

sorry if that post seemed a little harsh. I just had a bad day and needed to get some stuff off of my chest, so I apologize for taking it out on you.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

#HBC | Laundry

I'm voting Maven.

This was caught in the list but not in the count. Rectified.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Oh, right

#HBC | Red Ryu need immediate posts from you. What do you make of Gheb, Ryker, and Corp's posts about me?

Let me read it.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Oh, right

#HBC | Red Ryu need immediate posts from you. What do you make of Gheb, Ryker, and Corp's posts about me?

Still not sure example what you want here after o just reread recent stuff unless it is the last couple of pages.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Unvote

I need to reread some things. Maven89 you might have me convinced about the mechanics thing. I'm not sure yet, but it's enough for me to fear a wagon swinging too fast.

Mod confirmed he would be told from what I saw.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Definitely against a Ryker lynch.

I have no idea if I think Spak is ok or not but leaning more so on him being town.

Gheb's Ryker vote I'm not a fan of in retrospect. Also kind of confused on his directly outside of wanting a PL.

TSYK I got nothing.

Dastrn and Xatres back and forth with bouncing ideas seems super A-Ok.

Not a fan of J, starting to be in agreement with Ryker.

Corps is fine.

Maven's posts to pheonix rub me the wrong way.

Kind of short but I am slowly starting to not like people who pushed the Ryker wagon earlier other than a few. J's early vote looks a lot worse to me as a result.

Lynching in the Gheb/J/Maven area seems good to me.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Have fun with my townflip.

 

[Dastrn]

Have fun with my townflip.

Have you ever seen scum say this sort of thing when a wagon is picking up steam in the last 24 hours of a Day?
I'm not asking rhetorically. I'm curious if you've seen it.

Same question to everyone who reads this. I'd like to hear what you all have seen, and if it's at all common for scum to drop these sorts of one liners as a way to sway voters.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I don't think it matters. I don't have the motivation to fight the lynch and you should treat it as a null-tell. I I was scum in your eyes before, you should still read me as scum now. The "townflip" remark was more intended to challenge your "information" based approach because the way I see it a townflip of my slot wouldn't help you a whole lot and you'd just be left with two active town slots less in an even more sticky situation toMorrow.

But yeah I don't even have a solid scum read on anybody so what the hell do I know.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I also wanna say that if people really are so unwilling to lynch anybody outside of Spak, J and myself I'd actually consider J the best lynch. I still don't think Spak is scummy but I really am unsure about most things.

 

[Dastrn]

~ Gheb ~ If it wasn't you, I'd certainly prefer J over the rest of the cast right now. I wouldn't dream of lynching Spak, for reasons I've already addressed over the last page or two.

@ All of you: we have 11 hours. I'm willing to consider a J lynch or a Gheb lynch. I prefer Gheb but I'd like to hear all of your thoughts on both.
If anyone has any case to make that isn't already on the table, ffs make it now, and be here all day to talk about it. Otherwise, just get a vote on one of these two so we can do something reasonable.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I don't have time to make a case to be quite frank.

 

[Dastrn]

Gheb, a Ryker lynch is off the table. If you want your vote to count toDay, I think you'd do well to drop it on J and start working on making a case for us. If you're town, then we need you to put that work in to keep yourself alive for us.