Twisted Fate Mafia [D3 BEGINS, DEADLINE: 3/8 at 11:59 PM EST]

[Maven89]

Why would you put Ryu as probably town?

 

[Xatres]

"rolling over"? He argued in favor of Kantrip being scum more then any other player and went out of his way to attack Kantrip town reads, while insisting he needed some mysterious "more" that everyone sees could never occur on day 1. He actively lobbied for Kantrip's death while making posts saying "hmm, I don't know if Kantrip should die, I mean he's scum, but I don't know if we should lynch my scum read, I want way more for a day 1 lynch, anyone who town reads Kantrip is stupid, and he's scum, but I don't want to vote him, and in fact if he's town I'm totally not scum for this". Please explain in details other then "blood ties" as to why you believe him at all, if he wasn't OK with Kantrip's lynch then surely he could explain why in details, not broad vague categories like "more".

I can take another look at Dastrn's posts D1, but that was my interpretation of how things went down. Gheb made his case, and then at some point Dastrn was like "well, if Kantrip's going to be a lynch candidate today, I've accepted it, but let's consider other options while we have time." It was a bad move that contributed to Kantrip's lynch, but I don't think he was a "driving force." I'll do a reread and get back to you.

I don't think Gheb is dodging, per say, but he's being a bit suspicious. I feel like as soon as someone does something slightly scummy, he will make a long wall of text on his case, lynch the townie, and repeat the next day.

You literally said he was dodging.

Well, Gheb seems to be dodging a lot and being overall fishy. I don't like Ryker claimed roleblocked for all the reasons everyone else doesn't.

Let me ask you this, TSYK: Are you scum or town? Answer using at least 3 sentences.

I disagree with that first part, an active ability means you activate it, a passive ability means it happens passively. His passive ability is to come back as a ghost when he dies. If the ability was activated during the night by a night kill, I'd assume that'd count as an active action, since it's activated. But Laundry still mentioned passive abilties in his second post. An ability that procs when something else actives it is a passive ability.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Passive

Here's my issue with Ryker right now. I came into this game having the strongest scum read off him. He wagon hopped a ton D1, and rarely offered any reasoning for any of his votes. This includes the Kantrip wagon.

From my notes (apologies if some of the post number ranges are incomplete):

#271- TSYK wants concrete answers from Gheb, I want them too; Dastrn wants Ryker to actually contribute; Gheb says 164, it's not even his post and has nothing to with MFD, wth?
#287- Kantrip shows up and attacks Dastrn, likes Maven, dislikes early-Spak (for same reasons as me); Spak fuzzy response; Ryker non-contributes
#385 Ryker shows up - support Kantrip lynch - no case of his own
#419 Ryker wants Kantrip lynch, with TSYK and Mavin as backups
#464 Ryker says "Kantrip is confirmed PR or scum" - as if this has any affect on the scumminess of Kantrip?

And then today we get the whole Restless Spirit / RB fiasco. The claim was selfish, offered no benefit to town, and (if Maven is right about Ryker being town) was a pretty lazy way to clear yourself. I was inclined to think it was just Ryker knowing he was likely to be lynched today. But then... Laundry appeared while we bickered over rules.

And Laundry's intervention might just clear Ryker in my mind. None of us thought that a mod would send a RB notice to a player with a passive ability, and yet Laundry jumped into the thread and said that it did. So either Ryker is town or he just has balls of steel and it paid off for him.

#HBC | J - Get in here and comment.

Gonna leave my vote where it is for now and go watch some anime with the fiance. I'll be home and on my computer a lot tomorrow, and will continue to eyeball the thread from my phone when I can.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Didn't think his Kantrip hop on was out of character and he stayed off of my lynch wagon, which I think scum was likely pushing for given the speed at which it grew, although that's possibly because that's where Dastrn was looking that it grew that fast.

 

[Xatres]

Ninja'd

I don't have anything other than clarifying the mechanics behind my role to defend myself with. I've seen this thread as a pain in the *** to deal with, so I've been spending my time playing Fire Emblem and Street Fighter.

Then you probably should have replaced out. -_-

I came into this phase intending to poke at J and make him do things because I hated how convenient a note he left Day 1 on. I didn't expect him to come out the game voting me first. I certainly didn't expect there to be near nothing of value outside of those two initial votes. No one is doing anything, so I don't have anything solid.

If you're gonna lynch me, then do it, but make sure you mass claim tomorrow. You want to lock people into roleclaims more than you want to have PRs at that point.

A mass claim would be a terrible idea. If you are town, then we'll have already lost 3 PRs. Making any other potential PRs expose themselves would be painting a target on their backs.

Okay, for reals, going to hang with the fiance.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

First, I'm never going to replace out if I'm leaving the replacement in a ****ty spot.

Second, at 4 dead townies, we're at LyLo, unless I'm mistaken. You WANT targets on people's backs at that point if it gets kills off contributors. In LyLo, you almost always want as much information as possible to make your decisions.

 

[Dastrn]

Ryker, I think your play has been lazy and detrimental to town.

Why did you claim? Did you think it through carefully? Answer it both regarding why you claimed you were roleblocked and why you claimed to be restless spirit. I just need to understand "more". (trolling with that word....) Seriously though, I want to know what you think you accomplished with the claim, and also what the negative effects have been.

Also, if you feel bored by this game, I agree that replacing out is an option. But a much better option is to get more involved. Be a player. Make things happen. We were having 4 and 5 hours stretches with no posts between 10 players. That shouldn't happen. If you're bored, why not talk more? Why not ask more questions? Why not do something like Xatres just did and dare TSYK to answer with more than 3 sentences?

#HBC | J Can you give your current read on Maven, Gheb, and Ryker please? Also, can you speak up to your relative inactivity as well? My gears are turning and my impressions are changing right now, and I would appreciate your input on these matters. Sell me on something. Please.

 

[#HBC | J]

Why ave I been tagged by 3 different people saying I am being inactive or needing to post? I have a majority of the posts and I think I was maybe gone for 1 day if that. At least Dastrn asked questions whereas Xatres/Maven just said "post" which makes no sense to me because if you want me to post, there is something you must need of me that is dire enough to warrant a tag so where are the questions/quotes/anything?

Dastrn : Maven is scum-lean, Ryker is still someone who should be ousted, and Gheb I am iffy on. I honestly would lean him as maybe town. What do you want me to speak up on inactivity? I've been in tech for a show I'm assistant directing that opens next week plus school so yeah. I shouldn't have to sell you on anything honestly and you should be trying to sell me more on your Gheb vote if we are to start somewhere. I did sell you on something earlier in the phase and that was the Ryker vote, which you joined so yeah.

Reading/looking at thing/etc. #I'mAround

 

[#HBC | J]

I also think the game has been completely fine and you're fear-mongering and blaming the lack of activity for your own lack of initiative.

This was hysterical and I love it because of how true it is.

 

[#HBC | J]

Why was Maven trying to find out if Corps was an alt or not? Why does that have anything to do with the game or any argument Corps has made against Maven? It feels more like Maven was trying to pin the label of "Soup/Ran" as a way to combat Corps and try and make his argument look weaker based on the player he/she "could" be and just that is grimy.

 

[Dastrn]

Maybe I'm off my rocker here, but I've come to a new read on this game:
1. Ryker is telling the truth and he really was roleblocked, and really is restless spirit.
2. Maven is town. He's too rational and fair-minded for me to read any other way.
3. Gheb and J are probably my strongest scum leans at this point, with spak of some interest secondarily.

 

[#HBC | J]

If the Ryker wagon is being dismantled and it's because people are saying that the mod has "cleared" him then:

1.) I need to re-read all of Laundry's posts because honestly I hate the fact that I have to read a mod's posts over a players posts about PR shenanigans and what ifs especially if at the end of the day I find out that Ryker was scum and used this as a tactic, papa's gonna be pissed.
2.) I would vote Maven in the situation at hand and would lynch him. That's the only person I would be confident in getting out of the game at this point that would lead to a higher possibility of a scum-lynch.

 

[#HBC | J]

Maybe I'm off my rocker here, but I've come to a new read on this game:
1. Ryker is telling the truth and he really was roleblocked, and really is restless spirit.
2. Maven is town. He's too rational and fair-minded for me to read any other way.
3. Gheb and J are probably my strongest scum leans at this point, with spak of some interest secondarily.

I vote for off your rocker.

Especially if you leaning in the territory of Gheb/J/Sparky as your scum-team. But please, the floor is yours. Discuss your 180 on why you have that as your scum-team.

I chuckle a little bit that I have you as town, but your reads are almost polar opposite so I leer in your direction at the same time.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

#HBC | Laundry will you dispense with the mod speak and be painfully clear about your open setup. Is the restless spirit informed if he is roleblocked?

Given that his role can be blocked, yes.

 

[Dastrn]

I vote for off your rocker.

Especially if you leaning in the territory of Gheb/J/Sparky as your scum-team. But please, the floor is yours. Discuss your 180 on why you have that as your scum-team.

I chuckle a little bit that I have you as town, but your reads are almost polar opposite so I leer in your direction at the same time.

I'm not saying that this is my 3 man scum team, as if I have the game all figured out and all of the links in order. I'm saying that these are the 3 players that I'm most interested in pursuing right now. I think the highest likelihood of hitting scum is by lynching one of the three of you. Right now, (sick, sleepy, and drugged to high heavens), Gheb is where I'm looking and what I've put the most energy in reading in the last 18 hours. Spak has been on the back burner for me for a while now. You have risen onto my list specifically because of my shift in perception on the rest of the game. I now believe Ryker is town, which means that I needed to reconsider everything about Day 2, and reading a townRyker gave me the feeling of a scumJ.

I'll do my best tomorrow to explain it better. My vote is still sitting on Gheb, and I intend to keep it on Gheb, but I would feel fine with a lynch on you instead.

I'd settle for a policy lynch on TSYK if I had to. Even his activity is essentially not playing the game. It's a waste of a slot, and is starting to smell more and more of "I'm scum but I don't know what to do so I'll just kinda poke around and linger as long as I can." Not a fan.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ryker, I think your play has been lazy and detrimental to town.

Why did you claim? Did you think it through carefully? Answer it both regarding why you claimed you were roleblocked and why you claimed to be restless spirit. I just need to understand "more". (trolling with that word....) Seriously though, I want to know what you think you accomplished with the claim, and also what the negative effects have been.

My automatic answer in a game that isn't a pure open set-up is to claim when roleblocked if I don't value my role. Compound that with the fact that I thought that I was the last power role (and, let's be honest, I didn't really want to play an extra day phase anyway), and I figured that it was a better solution to let the game know there was a roleblocker and who he targeted last night. In reality, I think it's STILL probably better to get that information out.

I thought it out, I am not going to say I just did it without considering my actions, but I didn't fact check myself on the game mechanics and that's my fault.

It wasn't being bored with the game either. I'm still not BORED with it. I just was put in a ****ty spot and didn't want to deal with it when I had all these shiny new toys in front of it. I legit am surprised I got pushed to L-1 and nothing else happened. I'll play, but I'm in a spot where I've got very little to add short of rereading the game and I'm not sure how much I'll dig up doing that, but I CAN do that, so I will.

Why was Maven trying to find out if Corps was an alt or not? Why does that have anything to do with the game or any argument Corps has made against Maven? It feels more like Maven was trying to pin the label of "Soup/Ran" as a way to combat Corps and try and make his argument look weaker based on the player he/she "could" be and just that is grimy.

Oh shove off. People are CONSTANTLY assigning identities to alts because they're incredibly annoying to deal with. That's a gross assignment of intent without cause.

3. Gheb and J are probably my strongest scum leans at this point, with spak of some interest secondarily.

I maintain that Gheb/Spak are not scum together.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I'll be here posting between League games and I'll start rereading the game when my group goes to bed.

 

[Spak]

I don't think Gheb is dodging, per say, but he's being a bit suspicious. I feel like as soon as someone does something slightly scummy, he will make a long wall of text on his case, lynch the townie, and repeat the next day.

If he walls on the scummiest thing posted all phase, wall and lynch are justified. Additionally, you can't have a trend if you only have one instance of a situation.

 

[Dastrn]

My automatic answer in a game that isn't a pure open set-up is to claim when roleblocked if I don't value my role. Compound that with the fact that I thought that I was the last power role (and, let's be honest, I didn't really want to play an extra day phase anyway), and I figured that it was a better solution to let the game know there was a roleblocker and who he targeted last night. In reality, I think it's STILL probably better to get that information out.

I thought it out, I am not going to say I just did it without considering my actions, but I didn't fact check myself on the game mechanics and that's my fault.

It wasn't being bored with the game either. I'm still not BORED with it. I just was put in a ****ty spot and didn't want to deal with it when I had all these shiny new toys in front of it. I legit am surprised I got pushed to L-1 and nothing else happened. I'll play, but I'm in a spot where I've got very little to add short of rereading the game and I'm not sure how much I'll dig up doing that, but I CAN do that, so I will.



Oh shove off. People are CONSTANTLY assigning identities to alts because they're incredibly annoying to deal with. That's a gross assignment of intent without cause.



I maintain that Gheb/Spak are not scum together.

I don't like this answer, but I believe it.

I'm also in some agreement that Gheb and Spak are likely TvS. Dunno which yet, but I believe Gheb is more likely scum. I maintain a scummy vibe from both, but I'll readiliy back off of one if we hit the other toDay.

 

[Spak]

I have a town lean on him, mainly due to the way no one defended him and the same people who pushed Kantrip were now pushing Ryker

That's because the half of the game that wasn't pushing Kantrip or Ryker weren't doing jack squat.

I'd settle for a policy lynch on TSYK if I had to. Even his activity is essentially not playing the game. It's a waste of a slot, and is starting to smell more and more of "I'm scum but I don't know what to do so I'll just kinda poke around and linger as long as I can." Not a fan.

As much as I want the TSYK slot to be gone, I'm not sure if we should do a PL into a possible MyLo/LyLo; that would give us little to no information for D3 off of the flip and from the looks of it, we need all of the info we can get.

 

[Dastrn]

As much as I want the TSYK slot to be gone, I'm not sure if we should do a PL into a possible MyLo/LyLo; that would give us little to no information for D3 off of the flip and from the looks of it, we need all of the info we can get.

I share your thoughts. However, if there's a Spak/TSYK/XYZ scum team, we're boned. That's the other side of the equation for me.

Right now, I think I'd prefer to lynch a target that will give us info on a flip. Someone with some links. Spak/Gheb/J all satisfy that in my eyes.

Maven89 out of these 3, which is a more attractive candidate in your eyes?
Xatres same question.
I'd link more names but I'm starting to forget that some of you exist.

 

[Maven89]

Gheb's refusal to defend himself is really, really odd to me. I don't remember Gheb ever being like that. But him saying "I don't have any response to your points" isn't encouraging at all. I still think Gheb needs to die

J would be next, I'm not sold on Spak yet. I'd actually rather Xastrn or TSYK over Spak, because I feel both of them have lacked content, though Xastrn it's more his slot then what he himself has said.

Why was Maven trying to find out if Corps was an alt or not? Why does that have anything to do with the game or any argument Corps has made against Maven? It feels more like Maven was trying to pin the label of "Soup/Ran" as a way to combat Corps and try and make his argument look weaker based on the player he/she "could" be and just that is grimy.

I asked if it was soup because no one else has that perfect mixture of badness that Soup does, and I smelled all of it in that post and got suspicious. It was a serious question, because I've given up on Soup. It's a waste of effort. If someone is going to ask questions that show he has zero understanding of what people are saying, then I'll put in the effort to explain it to him. If Soup is going to ask questions showing he has zero understanding of what people are saying, then I'm not going to put in the effort to explain it to him, because Soup has shown his ego cannot allow that. He'll argue and whine and be wrong again, and force more attention and effort on our part just to babysit him.This has been proven with Soup time and time again. If you want to babysit him, go ahead. I'm not doing it.

 

[Corps phoenix]

I understood it but I don't agree with it. What part of that don't you understand? I don't know what you're expecting of little ol' me and that you think you can get me to change my mind and repeat yourself.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Waiting for a flip and just hoping it sheds light on things is not an option toDay..

Right now, I think I'd prefer to lynch a target that will give us info on a flip.

... so what's the difference between looking for a lynch that will shed light on things [as I put it] and one that "will give us ino" [as you put it]? According to you that shouldn't be an option, it's the main reason you've given on why you're voting for me after all.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Also, the three slots you suggested lynching are all pretty pro-active and interactive players that kind of actually have done stuff. Why would risk offing one of these three slots? If one of them is town we're in mylo or lylo with a bunch of people not doing ****. Sounds like a terrible plan to me. At this point lynching Ryu makes much more sense than any of these three slots.

 

[Dastrn]

Would you rather lynch someone who gives us no connections to work with for Day 3, then? What if we lynch TSYK? What the hell sort of plan do we go into on Day 3 if he flips town?

We need to accept the fact that TSYK is the worst slot remaining in this game. He's demonstrably unwilling/unable to provide anything worthwhile to the game, but at the same time, lynching him gives us nothing but that approximately 1 in 4 chance that we hit scum shooting blindly at someone who is a waste of space.

Now try to apply the same logic to Ryu. What do we gain from his flip? If he's town, what do we now know? If he's scum, what do we know?

You're advocating for a PL that would put us at best at LYLO. This is the worst game I've ever been a part of. I've never seen such an apathetic quiet bunch. I seriously doubt our chances of winning if we don't stick a scum with today's lynch, AND if it isn't someone who reveals some connections with their flip. We need BOTH or we're probably doomed.

I believe Gheb/J/Spak in that order would be our best bet at achieving both.

 

[Xatres]

I share your thoughts. However, if there's a Spak/TSYK/XYZ scum team, we're boned. That's the other side of the equation for me.

Right now, I think I'd prefer to lynch a target that will give us info on a flip. Someone with some links. Spak/Gheb/J all satisfy that in my eyes.

Maven89 out of these 3, which is a more attractive candidate in your eyes?
Xatres same question.
I'd link more names but I'm starting to forget that some of you exist.

Definitely not J. I'll take a look back through the game and let you know who I would prefer between Spak and Gheb.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

OK, so you suggest to keep these slots around forever [mafia obviously isn't going to NK them] to make sure that we get destroyed in lylo?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Definitely not J. I'll take a look back through the game and let you know who I would prefer between Spak and Gheb.

There are other slots in this game we could lynch, y'know.

There's TSYK and Ryu for instance who are both pretty worthless and don't do ****. There's Corps who has ceased to be a relevant factor in this game halfway through Day 1. Then there's Ryker who only ever actually does stuff when he's about to get wagoned.

But yeah, let's pick out lynch out of three active slots when we're about to hit what? Mylo?

Fantastic plan, guys.

 

[Xatres]

I was asked a question. I'm going to answer it. Doesn't mean I'm necessarily excepting that those are our only 3 lynch candidates. I also owe Maven a Dastrn reread, even though I'm 100% sure Dast is town.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Xatres

Have you reached Kantrip's case on Dastrn yet? How much merit do you think it has?

 

[Xatres]

Xatres

Have you reached Kantrip's case on Dastrn yet? How much merit do you think it has?

Not yet. I'm doing all three rereads at once. I'll let you know when I get there.

 

[Dastrn]

There are other slots in this game we could lynch, y'know.

There's TSYK and Ryu for instance who are both pretty worthless and don't do ****. There's Corps who has ceased to be a relevant factor in this game halfway through Day 1. Then there's Ryker who only ever actually does stuff when he's about to get wagoned.

But yeah, let's pick out lynch out of three active slots when we're about to hit what? Mylo?

Fantastic plan, guys.

You completely failed to answer my question. Would you prefer a flip that yields no connections? Are you willing to accept that blind shooting at one of our 4 or 5 inactives is essentially a scum win if we mislynch?

If this game is going to be saved, it will be through killing someone with connections. You have some. J has some. Spak has some. I have some. Maven has some.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I definitely just got terminated for a vague reason I am not clear on. It's not the end of the world for me, but it is really inconvenient for mafia at the moment. I'm suddenly job searching instead of being at home.

 

[Dastrn]

Sorry to hear it, Ryker.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

You completely failed to answer my question.

You fail to acknowledge my answer as such.

 

[Dastrn]

Would you rather lynch someone who gives us no connections to work with for Day 3, then? What if we lynch TSYK? What the hell sort of plan do we go into on Day 3 if he flips town?

We need to accept the fact that TSYK is the worst slot remaining in this game. He's demonstrably unwilling/unable to provide anything worthwhile to the game, but at the same time, lynching him gives us nothing but that approximately 1 in 4 chance that we hit scum shooting blindly at someone who is a waste of space.

Now try to apply the same logic to Ryu. What do we gain from his flip? If he's town, what do we now know? If he's scum, what do we know?

You're advocating for a PL that would put us at best at LYLO. This is the worst game I've ever been a part of. I've never seen such an apathetic quiet bunch. I seriously doubt our chances of winning if we don't stick a scum with today's lynch, AND if it isn't someone who reveals some connections with their flip. We need BOTH or we're probably doomed.

I believe Gheb/J/Spak in that order would be our best bet at achieving both.

There are other slots in this game we could lynch, y'know.

There's TSYK and Ryu for instance who are both pretty worthless and don't do ****. There's Corps who has ceased to be a relevant factor in this game halfway through Day 1. Then there's Ryker who only ever actually does stuff when he's about to get wagoned.

But yeah, let's pick out lynch out of three active slots when we're about to hit what? Mylo?

Fantastic plan, guys.

You fail to acknowledge my answer as such.

Regarding the green:
You never at all addressed what happens if we mislynch on one of these slots that has little or no associations. Dodging that question is telling, because it's important. Going into Day 3 with no connections, even if we HIT scum with a policy lynch, still leaves us with almost nothing to go on unless we get some PR claims that are absolutely undeniable.

Regarding the blue:
You brought up Ryu, as if I didn't specifically ask questions about him. I asked what knowledge we gain for Day 3 if he flips town/scum. You ignored that.

Listen, you and everyone else: These are important questions. We HAVE to get some information from today's flip to stand a chance, or else we're sunk in what will go down as the worst mafia game I've ever seen, let alone played in.

If you and I are TvT right now, then you need to come to grips with the fact that a policy lynch will leave us still ****ed for day 3. Miss, and we're lylo. Hit and we're still without information, and depending on what PRs are out there, and if they managed to guess correctly in what to do with their roles. AND if they manage to not get roleblocked, now that we're all pretty confident that there is indeed a roleblocker in play.

If you're scum, then I expect you to keep focusing on a policy lynch rather than a lynch that at least gives us a shot at some information.

So push away, but I intend to vote at a scummy slot that will give me information, and at this point, I'd prefer a no-lynch to blind shooting with what I'm guessing is a 1 in 4 chance of hitting scum. We should only blind shoot if we think we're more than 50-50 going to hit scum. Otherwise, lylo here we come, with NO information.

 

[Dastrn]

Definitely not J. I'll take a look back through the game and let you know who I would prefer between Spak and Gheb.

Why are you so confident about J? Catch something I've missed? Know something I don't?

 

[Corps phoenix]

The problem this game faces right now is that nobody wants to consider the other person's viewpoint so you have cases where two players are just throwing grime at each other while people watch and comment about it. It's no less than seeing a cage match and betting on who the winner will be. I have tried not to speak about this because I don't think discussing what's wrong with the game is the right idea, but Dastrn is right that if we don't put our heads together scum will be walking away with an easy win. I am not confident in Ryker flipping scum and I am still not confident, and even though I stated an alternative it either fell on deaf ears or was merely responded with a "maybe" or the "yeah i can see that and support it."

 

[Corps phoenix]

If people don't want to work together then the only alternative is to find commitment in something instead of people just being allowed to half-commit. This is again a reason I don't like maven, Spak or TSYK. Maven in this case I think is just full of it and maybe has some kind of ego in which he validates himself for calling players bad (we have played maybe once together in memory) or shouting at them to read his content. This is not productive nor townie. Spak might not be as aggressive as Maven but he certainly falls into this category of half-commitment. When have you seen Spak push something? If at all? Any pushes he has made have just deteriorated and he's been getting away with doing absolute jack. TSYK is guilty of this for more obvious reasons but his difference is that he suspects someone/something but never really follows up on it, and yes he might be noob but that's townie in my book either.

 

[Corps phoenix]

Many errors in that post and just thinking on the brain. Hope that's readable.