Twisted Fate Mafia [D3 BEGINS, DEADLINE: 3/8 at 11:59 PM EST]

[Corps phoenix]

I also think the game has been completely fine and you're fear-mongering and blaming the lack of activity for your own lack of initiative.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I also think the game has been completely fine and you're fear-mongering and blaming the lack of activity for your own lack of initiative.

Agreed.

It's also worth pointing out that this is the second time Maven waited until near the the end of the Day phase to actually post something insightful and in both cases he's pushing for stuff that has little actual chance of happening [which is partly due to, how you correctly pointed out, his own lack of initiative]. Honestly, Maven's play can be easily classified as 'mostly distracting' which I still think is a traitoresque approach.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'd lynch Maven and am willing to compromise on Xatres [entirely due to the lack of input from that slot, not really his fault] and TSYK. Conflicted on Ryker. If he wanted to fake a claim to prevent his lynch Restless Spirit is just about the last thing I'd expect. Of course, knowing Ryker, he could also be scum reverse-psyching the whole thing to muck things up. Can't really justify his play though and I guess I'd support a lynch if it comes down to it though not with too much confidence.

I could be dumb here but I really don't think we should lynch Spak toDay.

 

[Maven89]

The point of it all is that you're pairing Dastrn/Gheb together and it makes 0 sense.

1. Main forces behind Kantrip's lynch
2. Gheb put an early town read on Dastrn and has, to this day, still refused to give even a single reason as to why he is town reading him.
3. Dastrn came into today saying he was looking at Gheb, but then barely tapped him and never actually made a push, he hasn't focused on Gheb at all after he said he was looking at him
4. Gheb never addressed any of those points and has been very light on Dastrn
5. Gheb decides to defend both himself and Dastrn from the Kantrip lynch

So explain why you believe a Dastrn/Gheb team "makes no sense", please. I'd love to see what work you've put into that read.

I also think the game has been completely fine and you're fear-mongering and blaming the lack of activity for your own lack of initiative.

Nah, I've been pushing Gheb and Dastrn this entire day, you guys have decided to focus on a WIFOMY claim from Ryker and go to Spak, the only other person who was smart enough to actually read Kantrip's post (which is all it took to realize Gheb was completely wrong in his points) and hammered the slot to avoid a NL, so no, the game is not going fine, Kantrip's lynch would have been stopped if you guys actually read the game. I get that this is insulting to you, but I don't really don't care because it's the truth. The lynch was bad, Ryker's focus this entire day phase was a distraction, and you are now blatantly showing your inability to remember what people have said. Then you have Ryu posting going "lol i'm too stupid to know i'm supposed to read the game". Why should I be nice?

Agreed.

It's also worth pointing out that this is the second time Maven waited until near the the end of the Day phase to actually post something insightful and in both cases he's pushing for stuff that has little actual chance of happening [which is partly due to, how you correctly pointed out, his own lack of initiative]. Honestly, Maven's play can be easily classified as 'mostly distracting' which I still think is a traitoresque approach.

I've been focusing on you the entire day phase, and posted my detailed Gheb traitor comment post on the same day you actually responded to my questions, which, btw, was half way through the day phase, not "close to the end".

 

[Xatres]

Apartment shopping with the fiance last night, posting from my phone now. Just wanted to say a few things:

1) Maven: Dastrn absolutely was not 'one of the main forces behind the Kantrip lynch.' If Dastrn is guilty of anything, it's for rolling over and accepting that other people were going to lynch Kantrip, not for placing the pressure himself. He was actually very cautious and openly stated Kantrip was not his ideal choice.

2) Red Ryu: Gonna hold back my other scum leans for a bit longer. I like to play my cards close to the chest.

3) Gheb: I understand your feelings on my slot entirely. Like I said, it probably should have been this Slot or Ryker to go D1.

 

[Dastrn]

I did reread Gheb a bit. I simply found the Ryker outright lie to be too much to ignore, and I can't think of a reason why he shouldn't be lynched for it, barring something extreme happening.

Maven89 Do me a favor and explain a strong townRyker motivation for claiming roleblocked restless spirit and telling us there's "definitely a roleblocker" when he absolutely is not a roleblocked restless spirir.

Then explain a scumRyker version of the same thing.

I think he goofed on the whole thing to try to cast himself as a role no one would care about, so we would all think he was harmless.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Yeah from a strictly logical point of view I don't see a way to justify a town!Ryker read.

I'd still like to see that summary of your read on RR though. Your posts tend to be ... long and I'd kinda like to see your case compressed to its bare essene.

 

[Maven89]

Maven89 Do me a favor and explain a strong townRyker motivation for claiming roleblocked restless spirit and telling us there's "definitely a roleblocker" when he absolutely is not a roleblocked restless spirir.[/QUOTE]

I don't know why you are saying he's definitely not "roleblocked restless spirit" when we have no reason to think he lied, Laundry confirmed that it fits with how he mods, which I'm going to point to as a good reason to assume he's telling the truth as he openly asked Laundry to confirm this odd game mechanic.

TownRyker would roleclaim as a lazy attempt to stop himself from being lynched after a bad day 1 play, and just said "roleblocked" to try and get a mafia NK or keep the RB on him, both of which are useful for town. It was later that he added the Restless Spirit

ScumRyker would claim RB Restless Spirit because he didn't want to get lynched and the only way to confirm his role is to kill him, making it a safe claim unless someone countered. There's no reason to include the roleblock in this situation that I can see.

I do not have a town read on Ryker. I have a town lean on him, mainly due to the way no one defended him and the same people who pushed Kantrip were now pushing Ryker, plus I see the town reasons for claiming way better then I see the scum reasons for claiming, he wasn't close to a lynch and brought a heap of attention on himself, faking a claim to do that doesn't help scum win. It's not uncommon at all for real PRs to early claim to avoid attention because they're lazy to defend himself.

A

1) Maven: Dastrn absolutely was not 'one of the main forces behind the Kantrip lynch.' If Dastrn is guilty of anything, it's for rolling over and accepting that other people were going to lynch Kantrip, not for placing the pressure himself. He was actually very cautious and openly stated Kantrip was not his ideal choice.

"rolling over"? He argued in favor of Kantrip being scum more then any other player and went out of his way to attack Kantrip town reads, while insisting he needed some mysterious "more" that everyone sees could never occur on day 1. He actively lobbied for Kantrip's death while making posts saying "hmm, I don't know if Kantrip should die, I mean he's scum, but I don't know if we should lynch my scum read, I want way more for a day 1 lynch, anyone who town reads Kantrip is stupid, and he's scum, but I don't want to vote him, and in fact if he's town I'm totally not scum for this". Please explain in details other then "blood ties" as to why you believe him at all, if he wasn't OK with Kantrip's lynch then surely he could explain why in details, not broad vague categories like "more".

 

[Corps phoenix]

1. Main forces behind Kantrip's lynch
2. Gheb put an early town read on Dastrn and has, to this day, still refused to give even a single reason as to why he is town reading him.
3. Dastrn came into today saying he was looking at Gheb, but then barely tapped him and never actually made a push, he hasn't focused on Gheb at all after he said he was looking at him
4. Gheb never addressed any of those points and has been very light on Dastrn
5. Gheb decides to defend both himself and Dastrn from the Kantrip lynch

So explain why you believe a Dastrn/Gheb team "makes no sense", please. I'd love to see what work you've put into that read.

1. There were many other forces too, and many other people lynching him. In what way does this incriminate them aside from the fact you believe in some potshot theory that they were working together. No I have not read your cases but that begs the question why you're so insistent on believing the two as being scum and this further begs another question of it falls apart if one is town. That there is my problem with your pushes in that they're both tacked together in a neatly-wrapped bow, yet you're not really looking at them with scum intent individually. (further curious that you said you had this whole case on Dastrn and promised a lot and still have come up nothing, and I don't take "read my previous posts" as something.)

2. So have many other players. What makes them different? Is it because you scumread them therefore the weigh of their actions means much more in your head compared to others?

3. So have many other players. Look at J and Ryker right now and see how small their interaction was with each other. Just slight aggression and then both seemingly backed off. You are right in one aspect that there is a lack of people pushing but you cannot pin the blame on those if you're guilty of it too. I wouldn't call what you're doing as anything but pushing because you're holding your two scumreads in a standard that can only be talked about and not proved, and if you can prove it you haven't done a good job convincing me or anyone else for that matter.

4. Even if Gheb was scum and you were town, usually scum doesn't need to respond to things if they feel they don't have to. The same can also be said from town but again, how is this indicative of alignment and how does this somehow make your theory make sense?

5. This again doesn't make your statement about them being partners being true. If you're going to make such a great accusation you best have something more than just what you're giving which is a main reason I'm focusing on you right now because you don't and I don't think you yourself have thought about it as much as you would want people to believe.

Nah, I've been pushing Gheb and Dastrn this entire day, you guys have decided to focus on a WIFOMY claim from Ryker and go to Spak, the only other person who was smart enough to actually read Kantrip's post (which is all it took to realize Gheb was completely wrong in his points) and hammered the slot to avoid a NL, so no, the game is not going fine, Kantrip's lynch would have been stopped if you guys actually read the game. I get that this is insulting to you, but I don't really don't care because it's the truth. The lynch was bad, Ryker's focus this entire day phase was a distraction, and you are now blatantly showing your inability to remember what people have said. Then you have Ryu posting going "lol i'm too stupid to know i'm supposed to read the game". Why should I be nice?


I've been focusing on you the entire day phase, and posted my detailed Gheb traitor comment post on the same day you actually responded to my questions, which, btw, was half way through the day phase, not "close to the end".

So everyone is at fault besides you?

 

[Corps phoenix]

EBWOP: When I mean read your cases I mean in detail. I cursory glanced them because I thought they were bs from the start, so if your response is to say just to read it I would tell you to provide me a different outlook or something stronger than just "they both pushed Kantrip and aren't interacting with each other."

 

[Maven89]

I'm sorry for my tone. I have very black moods when I wake up, I woke up earlier then normal today and I was weak enough to allow it to leak through into the game. I'm sorry

 

[Maven89]

Oh corps responded, my phone didn't refresh I'm at class will get to it afterwards

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

I'm gonna read everything carefully once I get home.

 

[Dastrn]

I'm gonna read everything carefully once I get home.

I feel like this is representative of about 60% of your posts.

 

[Dastrn]

In the event that the mafia team targeted a player without an active or passive ability, they will not be informed such an action took place.

Maven89 Do me a favor and explain a strong townRyker motivation for claiming roleblocked restless spirit and telling us there's "definitely a roleblocker" when he absolutely is not a roleblocked restless spirit.

I don't know why you are saying he's definitely not "roleblocked restless spirit" when we have no reason to think he lied, Laundry confirmed that it fits with how he mods, which I'm going to point to as a good reason to assume he's telling the truth as he openly asked Laundry to confirm this odd game mechanic.

Laundry actually confirmed that he would not be informed, so he was either roleblocked and is a different PR, or he IS the restless spirit and was NOT roleblocked, or neither is true.

Either way, he is not defending himself, the mod has confirmed through definition of the standard mod behavior that he lied, and I don't see why I should assume he is lying with protown motivation.

 

[Maven89]

No I have not read your cases but that begs the question

EBWOP: When I mean read your cases I mean in detail

I'm serious: are you Soup?

Laundry actually confirmed that he would not be informed, so he was either roleblocked and is a different PR, or he IS the restless spirit and was NOT roleblocked, or neither is true.

In the event that the mafia team targeted a player without an active or passive ability, they will not be informed such an action took place.

Unless I'm reading this wrong, he said "without an active or passive ability", but the Restless Spirit is a passive ability, which would imply he would be informed.

 

[Maven89]

Either way, he is not defending himself.

This part needs to be repeated. The main reason outside of the obscurity of him being informed of the rb was the people pushing him, but that's less important.

I am wavering quite a bit on my Dastrn read due to him playing the exact same, making me think I might have just misjudged what he was doing. I actually just never thought he could be super, super cautious, I don't remember that from the previous game but he seems to be sticking to it.

Dastrn what are your thoughts on Gheb?

@#HBC | J post bro

 

[Dastrn]

Unless I'm reading this wrong, he said "without an active or passive ability", but the Restless Spirit is a passive ability, which would imply he would be informed.

Lacking a night action, one would infer that he did not have a passive ability until after he was night killed. Laundry was carefully clear in his first response to the question that he would be informed IF he were to be killed AND roleblocked in the same night. I don't think he made that clarification for no reason.

I've been thinking about this more and more this afternoon while I worked, and I'm trying to think of whether or not a liarRyker in this situation would be so confident in invoking a mod response to clarify that he would in fact receive a notification. Something doesn't sit right with me right now.

The short version of my read on gheb is that he is opportunistic. That can be a sign of a town player who is actively looking for a target instead of passively waiting around with his thumb up his ass (*ahem....half of you*) , or it certainly could be a scum-smell of someone who's just aching at the chance for a reasonable target that town could get behind for another mislynch.

I got this impression yesterDay and I'm still getting it toDay. I'm not sure how to interpret it yet, but he's not the most interesting slot in the game right now.

Sadly, I still feel like we're dealing with a lot of inactivity, and I almost feel like we might be stuck with a damned policy lynch on DAY TWO if some of ya'll don't get in here and get active. I've been WAY slower toDay than yesterDay, and I'm still easily outpacing most of the group in Day 2, which is silly. I should be apologizing for MY inactivity right now, not prodding you guys.

 

[Corps phoenix]

I'm serious: are you Soup?

I don't think this answered what I asked of you. Maybe the other players are soup too because nobody is listening to you right now and either your cases are not convincing or you are typing too much.

 

[Corps phoenix]

Maven89

How do you feel about Dastrn 180'ing on Gheb right now in the post above me.

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

I don't think Gheb is dodging, per say, but he's being a bit suspicious. I feel like as soon as someone does something slightly scummy, he will make a long wall of text on his case, lynch the townie, and repeat the next day.

 

[Maven89]

Soup I'm not doing this. Seriously. Did you sign up under a different name because you thought we were being unfair to you? We are not

Maven89

How do you feel about Dastrn 180'ing on Gheb right now in the post above me.

It's not a 180 read the game or replace out

Maybe it's just because it's early, but some of this made very little sense to me.

What did make sense is that I didn't really understand Gheb's "traitor vibes" comment at all.

To be clear, what secret info is a traitor given before / during the game?

I didn't see this before. He's told who the scum team is

 

[Corps phoenix]

What's wrong with you? I'm not soup and if my identity mattered I would've told you before. Maybe I just wanted to play a game in the same way Leviathan did eons ago so if you want you can think im soup all day but it's not important to this conversation.

 

[Corps phoenix]

You spent time saying that Gheb/Dastrn barely interact with each other and are town-reading each other too but it seems like dastrn calling gheb opportunistic certainly isn't characteristic of a full town-read, and I'd think that if you were genuine with your efforts here that perhaps you would've spotted this but instead you're focused about me and how I didn't read your post.

 

[Maven89]

Looking it up you're either Ranmaru or Soup, either way you're openly not reading, your line of questioning shows you're reading less then you seem to think, because 1. Dastrn has been questioning Gheb all day so that last post wasn't a 180 and 2. my push was talking about how gheb/dastrn were scummy individually, and then mentioned how they were playing oddly together. You don't seem to have read that first part. You admit you didn't read it. Go read it or stop talking about it. I am not putting in extra work and repeat myself because you refuse to read.

Lacking a night action, one would infer that he did not have a passive ability until after he was night killed. Laundry was carefully clear in his first response to the question that he would be informed IF he were to be killed AND roleblocked in the same night. I don't think he made that clarification for no reason.

I disagree with that first part, an active ability means you activate it, a passive ability means it happens passively. His passive ability is to come back as a ghost when he dies. If the ability was activated during the night by a night kill, I'd assume that'd count as an active action, since it's activated. But Laundry still mentioned passive abilties in his second post. An ability that procs when something else actives it is a passive ability.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Passive

 

[Corps phoenix]

I just read your post again and my feelings remain the same.

From a townGheb perspective, none of this holds up. He'd have zero reason to think Kantrip's defense required secret knowledge, he'd have no reason to think I was working against the scum team and not just gathering pro-town points for myself after ducking out for a day, he'd have no reason to not think I was just pushing for townies. For Gheb to say "traitor vibes" shows secret information that Gheb has, and we can use logic to pinpoint where he's coming from. And it's scummy.

Yes I agree that him calling you traitor is odd but it's as much of a stretch as it is Xatres' trying to pinpoint Ryker about his claim of Restless Spirit.

P.S -

When I mean cursory glance I mean that I glanced over it like you would if you were reading a magazine instead of being enthralled by a book. I saw the words but I didn't sit there and spend too much time with it.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I feel like as soon as someone does something slightly scummy, he will make a long wall of text on his case, lynch the townie, and repeat the next day.

Yo dude.

Remember that one time during Day 1 when I didn't immediately post my case on Kantrip and got called out for it? What was is I supposed to do?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Vote: Ryker

Don't wanna make this solely a matter of his claim. He also hasn't done anything constructive at all and his hop on the Kantrip wagon was meh. Dunno who else I'd lynch toDay, I just hope he doesn't actually flip a PR. **** this game if he does.

 

[Spak]

Unvote

 

[Spak]

Sorry, I wanted to get that unvote in quick just in case someone else wanted to impulsively vote for Ryker. Gheb just put him at L-1 with two days left in the phase.

 

[Dastrn]

Unvote

I need to reread some things. Maven89 you might have me convinced about the mechanics thing. I'm not sure yet, but it's enough for me to fear a wagon swinging too fast.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Right, Laundry has extended the deadline. I thought it was toDay.

But yeah ... I wanna hear arguments on why Ryker has any warrant to make it past this Day phase.

 

[Dastrn]

The short version of my read on gheb is that he is opportunistic. That can be a sign of a town player who is actively looking for a target instead of passively waiting around with his thumb up his *** (*ahem....half of you*) , or it certainly could be a scum-smell of someone who's just aching at the chance for a reasonable target that town could get behind for another mislynch.

Vote: Ryker

Don't wanna make this solely a matter of his claim. He also hasn't done anything constructive at all and his hop on the Kantrip wagon was meh. Dunno who else I'd lynch toDay, I just hope he doesn't actually flip a PR. **** this game if he does.

An example of what I was talking about.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

In that case you're wrong on both account because this is actually me just not really having a clue anymore. I guess you can call it opportunistic though, I have no doubt that it's coming across that way for anybody who reads what I'm posting. But after the push on Kantrip I'm not really confident on anything anymore and there's hardly anybody to toss around ideas with. I'm mostly lost and am just hoping for a flip to shed some light upon a few things. I mean my strongest scumread is a really whack, stretchy guesstimate on an unrecruited traitor and I don't even have a response to any of his counter-points.

 

[Dastrn]

In that case you're wrong on both account because this is actually me just not really having a clue anymore. I guess you can call it opportunistic though, I have no doubt that it's coming across that way for anybody who reads what I'm posting. But after the push on Kantrip I'm not really confident on anything anymore and there's hardly anybody to toss around ideas with. I'm mostly lost and am just hoping for a flip to shed some light upon a few things. I mean my strongest scumread is a really whack, stretchy guesstimate on an unrecruited traitor and I don't even have a response to any of his counter-points.

Vote: Gheb

A mislynch today would result in town losing 4 people in a row, at which point we'd be mylo all the way to the very end, unless we PR our way into a slightly better situation. Waiting for a flip and just hoping it sheds light on things is not an option toDay.

Settling for that at this point and putting us at L-1 with no warning could have been extremely costly for town, and I don't think either of these points were lost on you.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Reading now.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Lacking a night action, one would infer that he did not have a passive ability until after he was night killed. Laundry was carefully clear in his first response to the question that he would be informed IF he were to be killed AND roleblocked in the same night. I don't think he made that clarification for no reason.

I've been thinking about this more and more this afternoon while I worked, and I'm trying to think of whether or not a liarRyker in this situation would be so confident in invoking a mod response to clarify that he would in fact receive a notification. Something doesn't sit right with me right now.

The short version of my read on gheb is that he is opportunistic. That can be a sign of a town player who is actively looking for a target instead of passively waiting around with his thumb up his *** (*ahem....half of you*) , or it certainly could be a scum-smell of someone who's just aching at the chance for a reasonable target that town could get behind for another mislynch.

I got this impression yesterDay and I'm still getting it toDay. I'm not sure how to interpret it yet, but he's not the most interesting slot in the game right now.

Sadly, I still feel like we're dealing with a lot of inactivity, and I almost feel like we might be stuck with a damned policy lynch on DAY TWO if some of ya'll don't get in here and get active. I've been WAY slower toDay than yesterDay, and I'm still easily outpacing most of the group in Day 2, which is silly. I should be apologizing for MY inactivity right now, not prodding you guys.

#HBC | Laundry will you dispense with the mod speak and be painfully clear about your open setup. Is the restless spirit informed if he is roleblocked?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Looking it up you're either Ranmaru or Soup, either way you're openly not reading, your line of questioning shows you're reading less then you seem to think, because 1. Dastrn has been questioning Gheb all day so that last post wasn't a 180 and 2. my push was talking about how gheb/dastrn were scummy individually, and then mentioned how they were playing oddly together. You don't seem to have read that first part. You admit you didn't read it. Go read it or stop talking about it. I am not putting in extra work and repeat myself because you refuse to read.



I disagree with that first part, an active ability means you activate it, a passive ability means it happens passively. His passive ability is to come back as a ghost when he dies. If the ability was activated during the night by a night kill, I'd assume that'd count as an active action, since it's activated. But Laundry still mentioned passive abilties in his second post. An ability that procs when something else actives it is a passive ability.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Passive

It's not Ran. Ran offered to hydra with me a little into Day 1.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Grats J, you do have enough oomph it seems.

I don't have anything other than clarifying the mechanics behind my role to defend myself with. I've seen this thread as a pain in the ass to deal with, so I've been spending my time playing Fire Emblem and Street Fighter.

I still feel as though J is getting a free pass from a lot of players. TSYK remains absolutely unreadable. Gheb hasn't actually done anything wrong in my eyes right now. Dastrn is town or we're just ****ed. Corps and Ruy are probably town. Xatres hasn't done much to make me feel good about his slot. Spam had an awful Day 1, but may well have just saved my life. If he or Gheb is scum, then the other is not. He wouldn't bail the moment his partner put me at L-1.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I came into this phase intending to poke at J and make him do things because I hated how convenient a note he left Day 1 on. I didn't expect him to come out the game voting me first. I certainly didn't expect there to be near nothing of value outside of those two initial votes. No one is doing anything, so I don't have anything solid.

If you're gonna lynch me, then do it, but make sure you mass claim tomorrow. You want to lock people into roleclaims more than you want to have PRs at that point.