Twisted Fate Mafia [D3 BEGINS, DEADLINE: 3/8 at 11:59 PM EST]

[#HBC | Ryker]

Town starts out with two PRs, so all we know is that the mafia at least picked one augment. Are you confused on that, or is there something I'm not getting, because I don't understand how you can know if there's a jailer or not?

Well ****, I missed that one all toghether.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

So in hidden words, you are saying that it is highly suspect that Gheb is questioning Maven about being a traitor?

Yes, that's what I WAS saying before I realized we had more town PRs.

As for your list, you already said in a few more words that you don't necessarily think TSYK is outside the possible lynch pool this game. I have no idea how you feel about this game outside of the fact that you don't like me, you don't like Gheb, you didn't like Spak at the end of the day, and that you like RR. I want to know pretty much anything else.

 

[The Man From Delamar]

Guys, I'm mighty sorry, but I'm gonna have to replace out. I knew I was gonna have an intense wave of work comin' my way when the game started (I even forewarned Laundry), but it looked like I'd be able to manage it. But the move set me really far back, and I just don't have the time to be able to properly commit to the game. I probably should have done this earlier, but I suppose better late than never, and continuin' to a liability to everybody.

This definitely ain't gonna be the last time I'm here in DGames though, and this wave of work's only gonna last me so long. So I'll see y'all then, and again, I apologize.

 

[#HBC | J]

Yes, that's what I WAS saying before I realized we had more town PRs.

As for your list, you already said in a few more words that you don't necessarily think TSYK is outside the possible lynch pool this game. I have no idea how you feel about this game outside of the fact that you don't like me, you don't like Gheb, you didn't like Spak at the end of the day, and that you like RR. I want to know pretty much anything else.

To the pink bit, it's because you aren't reading. That should go without saying combined with the fact you didn't even look at the set-up protocol before claiming here's a pretty big/detailed post of my reads and thoughts. You should definitely know a lot more of what I am thinking then just the spotty recall you just did because TSYK is out of the possible lynch pool for me.

I know it's a rather bum note, but honestly I didn't have a strong scum-read at the end of the day. I did not think I would have ended up wanting a Kanty push and was actually looking more at trying to find someone else. (If he flips scum I'm putting my foot very far into my mouth here, but rather be honest than not) Plus busy J is busy, but not clogging the thread with that.

I still think Maven's slot bugs me and will bug me even more on a KantyTown flip if that is what happens. I would also be looking at Ghebbers with more scrutiny. There is a post Gheb made where he seemed to genuinely be trying to read Kanty which does make me pause on his slot so research will be done, on a scum-flip I'll take that GhebTown read and move along swiftly to finding out Kanty's partners. Sparky is someone I really need to re-read because he has been back and forth in my mind where some things I am like "Okay, that makes sense from a town PoV" where others just bring me to a halt and I am like "...am I sure though?"

Delly is still a nobody and needs to do anything at this point. You're decentish but nothing you've done is alignment telling and rather null of what I expect of you miunus the fact that you helped push the Kanty wagon now that I am thinking about it. I'd probably look more in detail to how you entered the Kanty wagon and exactly what route you took to acquire that lynch.

RR/Corps are still my stronger town reads. Dastrn to a lesser extant and then farther down would be TSYK because I do err on the side of believing him to have more good intentions with not the best wording rather than malintent and then we have clear Slick.

That's my end of day reads and going off gut I think Kanty was telling the truth about being a PR so if he does flip Town PR, I am looking at the names I listed, but if he flips scum then this post is null and void and I will be looking at other avenues. Strangely though, I do not see myself changing my town reads that much and mainly just looking at who fits as partners to Kanty because I would believe a bus seemed more likely.

Deadline ended on a busy day for me, bad luck there. ToMorrow if I'm still around, I will have more info to go off of and be able to whip something up.

Why are you not paying attention or reading what is literally in the thread?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Your Maven read is literally one line that he "bugs you." Your Gheb read I knew. Del has done nothing to really give you a read which gives me nothing, but I'm okay with that one. RR you expounded on, but your Corps read I don't understand, but whatever, you have him as town, I don't care about that one. That's the end of your reads.

Now you come in today pushing me, but I think you've only commented on what I've said after the fact. I don't have a solid idea what you think about Spak atm. Del is there because he's null. TSYK is not there because you "err on the side of believing him to have more good intentions with not the best wording rather than malintent" which is a fancy way of saying I think he's town because no reason.

The middle of your reads list looks like it was decided with a dart board.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I did feel like I knew Kantrip was town because the claim that he flip flopped was false and he had claimed a PR, I had faith that showing this could result in people unvoting him and voting someone that was scummy. People rather just give up, though

"Feeling like you know" and "having faith" are not on the same level as actually knowing though.

But why traitor? Why not just mafia?

Specifically, I've been thinking of unrecruited Traitor.

I just don't see how a mafioso would show up in that scenario with the intention of spreading chaos like that. Had you really been even close to as much worried about Kantrip as you pretended to be you would not have drawn the attention to two slots that had like zero chance of getting lynched in time. There was the very viable and realistic chance of lynching Spak in Kantrip's place at that time that could have *easily* happened but instead you chose to *not* give that option a shot and thus actively contributed to make sure that nobody except Kantrip could've gotten lynched.

So your MO essentialy was:
1.) Contribute towards Kantrip getting lynched
2.) Pre-emptively blame two pro-active slots you know are not mafia for Kantrip's incoming townflip
3.) Watch the "prophecy" fulfill itself, play the "see, I was right!"-card on us

It just makes a lot more sense to play like that as unrecruited Traitor than anybody else. I will even admit that your play is closer to a townie than to a mafioso [which is why I'm still not really sure about voting you] just because a mafioso would be a lot more conservative about exhibiting anti-town behavior.

How is pointing to those responsible for the lynch not helping town?

Dastrn and I are not "responsible" for his lynch. Not more than everybody else who has been on there so don't even try to make it look like this lynch has all been my doing. At the end of the day my vote contributed exactly 1/7th to his lynch and not one bit more. You do not get to put the load of the other 6/7th on my or Dastrn's back.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Would you honestly say TSYK is a valuable lynch candidate for toDay? It's not pro-town, but more town vibes because I also see people more likely to be scum then him. For toDay's sake, I'm fine with the 5 names I've allotted myself to investigate and look into more rather than add more than half the game into the lynch pile. He doesn't reach the requirements to be considered for a lynch especially when slots such as Ryker/Maven are still around. That's what I mean by my lynch list. I have other people I want to look at and wouldn't cry over if they were gone.

I mean if you just PoE it that's all fine and good with me but you're aware that at some point we may have to concern ourselves with the actual possibility of TSYK being mafia, right? You can backload the process of having to read him onto a later point but I don't think there'll be a way around having to do it at all eventually. So how much leeway are you willing to give him? It's not gonna do us much good if you're just happy with him being super-null forever .

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'd also like to make it clear that I'm not actively searching for a traitor. It's more that Maven's play at the time [and after] I was about to dip just actively screamed "Traitor!" to me.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Xatres has replaced The Man from Delamar

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

I'm still confused on Dastrn's scum list. YesterDay all of those slots were in town, and now he just changes his mind with no real clarification? Dastrn please elaborate on your scum list.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Votecount incoming.

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

Oh, and I'll go ahead and Unvote for now.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Votecount 2.0

1. #HBC | Ryker: J
2. Corps Phoenix: Spak
3. Xatres:
4. Maven89:
5. ASC | Red Ryu: Spak
6. Gheb_01:
7. Spak: Xatres
8. #HBC | J: Ryker
9. ThatSmasherYouKnow: Gheb >
10. Dastrn:

Not voting: Corps, Xatres, Maven, Gheb, TSYK, Dastrn

Count
Spak (2): Corps, Ruy
Ryker (1): J
J (1): Ryker​

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Oh, and I'll go ahead and Unvote for now.

Please bold your votes and unvotes. I'm counting it up until this point but afterwards if it's not bold, it's not on the count.

 

[Xatres]

Been casually following this game since I saw Dastrn was playing. I have a few leans, but I want to read through from the beginning before I give anthing concrete.

Posting from my phone cause smashboards is blocked at work. Most of my posts will be in the evening.

 

[Dastrn]

To be clear, Xatres and I haven't talked about this game whatsoever. I didn't know he was reading it, so please don't anyone worry about any information being passed prior to his joining the game.

I'm in the middle of the workday, so I can't get into anything of depth right now, but I'll be around in a bit.

 

[Dastrn]

IGMEO:
Spak
Gheb
RR

I'm still confused on Dastrn's scum list. YesterDay all of those slots were in town, and now he just changes his mind with no real clarification? Dastrn please elaborate on your scum list.

Wat?

Spak was my original scum pick. He's labelled "null-scum" next to some notes in my spreadsheet.
RR was the first serious case I put together. That case is the reason that Kantrip is dead now, because he went off the rails about the case, even though most people thought it was a reasonable Day 1 case.

Gheb has been added for a couple of small reasons piling up. I'd have to spend more time than I have right now to put it all together. And I'm not sure it's really worth doing, since I'm not exactly pushing him right now. I just said I Got My Eye On him. That's a hair weaker than a FoS, and certainly weaker than a vote.

Where on earth did you get the idea that these were all town slots in my mind yesterDay? That's a pretty blatant misread of me.

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

Okay, I really don't see all the hate for Spak, I don't see anything Spak did wrong tbh but it might just be me not understanding what is happening. I thought I remembered you posting RR as a town read, Gheb was town, but I agree with you, he's being a bit fishy.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I was asked for a read from Slick, analyzed the Dastrn interaction (giving Kantrip a null/town lean if I remember correctly) and then Gheb posted his wall on Kantrip. I went to look at Gheb's wall, played devil's advocate because Gheb was addressing literally everything from a scum!Kantrip perspective, and then I said that after fully analyzing the situation, I said that Kantrip was a weak scum lean. I never had a super strong read on Kantrip and he was weak scum the entire time after the wall on Gheb's post.

I agree. This will be crazy suspicious if you aren't jailed or dead by D3.

1. For the love of all that is good and holy, I wasn't trying to defend Kantrip.
2. If I were trying to get credit for a flip, why would I vote for him?
3. You are saying that I would have benefited from a town!Kantrip flip, and you want me dead because of it. If Kantrip were scum, however, you would be saying that I was trying to defend my scummate and you would want me dead because of it. You can turn anything into a reason if you look at it with a scum mentality.

What do you mean by "change again?" It's the same thing I said earlier (#479).

Vote: The Man From Delamar until you come in here and actually give your opinions on the game at hand. I find it a bit sketchy that you are conveniently here for the flip after providing nothing all phase even though you were back from V/LA for over a day.

Let's go back over this then.

You made a counter to his case to offer a devil's advocate, do I got this right? Because you felt people jumped on too quick. You did it very fast though, you offered a counter point while trying to infer if Kantrip was worth it.

You offered it because everyone else went against it, but didn't seem to offer your own stance and then hammered at the end. I don't have an issue with the hammer itself but your attitude towards the slot.

Your attitude seemed to waver a lot while flipping back and forth.

Sorry guys, I got sucked into the Daytona 500 Can-Am Duels. I've read up and still have Kantrip as a weak scum lean (and I really don't want a NL), so I came in to do this:

Vote: Kantrip

Should be L-1 now. One more to hammer.

You didn't make any direct stance but instead offered a counter to Gheb's case.

I'll concede that either flip I wouldn't like your play, but to be frank I really didn't like how you made a giant counter case to Gheb yet turned it into a scum read without any development. If I found it to be work towards gathering people to consider your counter case, I would have liked it nor.

As it stands, your made a massive defense for him without really pushing for info on it or for people to read and consider your points, while also not giving your own stance making if vague while not taking a firm stance.

I'm not tunneling you, I find the way you handled it to be scummy.

Convince me why it wasn't.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Wat?

Spak was my original scum pick. He's labelled "null-scum" next to some notes in my spreadsheet.
RR was the first serious case I put together. That case is the reason that Kantrip is dead now, because he went off the rails about the case, even though most people thought it was a reasonable Day 1 case.

Gheb has been added for a couple of small reasons piling up. I'd have to spend more time than I have right now to put it all together. And I'm not sure it's really worth doing, since I'm not exactly pushing him right now. I just said I Got My Eye On him. That's a hair weaker than a FoS, and certainly weaker than a vote.

Where on earth did you get the idea that these were all town slots in my mind yesterDay? That's a pretty blatant misread of me.

Mind sharing the small reasons on Gheb? I am curious with this.

 

[Spak]

Let's go back over this then.

You made a counter to his case to offer a devil's advocate, do I got this right? Because you felt people jumped on too quick. You did it very fast though, you offered a counter point while trying to infer if Kantrip was worth it.

You offered it because everyone else went against it, but didn't seem to offer your own stance and then hammered at the end. I don't have an issue with the hammer itself but your attitude towards the slot.

Your attitude seemed to waver a lot while flipping back and forth.

You didn't make any direct stance but instead offered a counter to Gheb's case.

I'll concede that either flip I wouldn't like your play, but to be frank I really didn't like how you made a giant counter case to Gheb yet turned it into a scum read without any development. If I found it to be work towards gathering people to consider your counter case, I would have liked it nor.

As it stands, your made a massive defense for him without really pushing for info on it or for people to read and consider your points, while also not giving your own stance making if vague while not taking a firm stance.

I'm not tunneling you, I find the way you handled it to be scummy.

Convince me why it wasn't.[/QUOTE]
I made a read on Kantrip on the wall on Gheb's post, right here:

I'm not quite sure which side to believe (at this point I'm leaning more towards null/weak scum), but I can't deny that knowing Kantrip's alignment would make looking back at interactions much more interesting. If we go with a PL, that would give us no interactions to go off of and we risk being in the same spot tomorrow as we have been today. I'm willing to compromise to Kantrip, but want to see how he handles this situation before placing down a vote on anyone.

It wasn't a very solid read because I wasn't sure about Kantrip's alignment. I said it was a weak scum lean because I could see a bit more plausibility in Gheb's wall than my town!Kantrip analysis, and that was the read I pertained to until the flip.

Did you want more clarity on anything? The tornadoes outside are a bit distracting.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Dastrn

Do you think we should lynch Ryu toDay? I'd like you to sum up your points on him.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm not tunneling you, I find the way you handled it to be scummy.

Convince me why it wasn't.

I made a read on Kantrip on the wall on Gheb's post, right here:

It wasn't a very solid read because I wasn't sure about Kantrip's alignment. I said it was a weak scum lean because I could see a bit more plausibility in Gheb's wall than my town!Kantrip analysis, and that was the read I pertained to until the flip.

Did you want more clarity on anything? The tornadoes outside are a bit distracting.[/QUOTE]

Yes.

Why were you so hesitant with a stronger read.

I personally wavered more towards the end after Kantrip claimed to be a PR, before you were very unsure and I am wondering why you weren't as sold either way despite offering a town Kantrip angle?

I'm trying to figure out what your goal was pertaining to your actions.

Because frankly I do not think they line up.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

mfw we both mess up quoting each other.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Okay, I really don't see all the hate for Spak, I don't see anything Spak did wrong tbh but it might just be me not understanding what is happening. I thought I remembered you posting RR as a town read, Gheb was town, but I agree with you, he's being a bit fishy.

Where is your head at?

Aka what are your reads?

 

[Spak]

Yes.

Why were you so hesitant with a stronger read.

I personally wavered more towards the end after Kantrip claimed to be a PR, before you were very unsure and I am wondering why you weren't as sold either way despite offering a town Kantrip angle?

I'm trying to figure out what your goal was pertaining to your actions.

Because frankly I do not think they line up.

I honestly saw claiming the PR as null. Kantrip was about to be lynched, so claiming the PR was the best option as town and as scum. Claiming town PR without claiming a specific role made him safe from any possible CC (making it good for scum), and claiming town PR as town would either be him telling the truth or lying to help protect a self-confirmed town slot.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I honestly saw claiming the PR as null. Kantrip was about to be lynched, so claiming the PR was the best option as town and as scum. Claiming town PR without claiming a specific role made him safe from any possible CC (making it good for scum), and claiming town PR as town would either be him telling the truth or lying to help protect a self-confirmed town slot.

This doesn't quite answer my main question.

I personally wavered more towards the end after Kantrip claimed to be a PR, before you were very unsure and I am wondering why you weren't as sold either way despite offering a town Kantrip angle?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

To be specific, even when offering the town angle why were you still going either way?

 

[Spak]

To be specific, even when offering the town angle why were you still going either way?

Gheb gave his wall on the Kantrip situation assuming scum!Kantrip, so I approached it assuming town!Kantrip. Most of my post wasn't my necessarily perspective on the situation, it was more of "what if we looked at this assuming town!Kantrip?" because nobody else was trying to look at the original situation outside of Gheb's wall and consider other viewpoints. My actual opinion was already given in my last response, but if you look at the paragraph above of the post:

All in all, I think that Kantrip's alignment is largely dependent upon how you view the situation. If you look at it with a mentality of scum!Kantrip, you can say that he backtracked, avoided posting reads and copped out by saying most of the thread is null from inactivity, he wants to stay on everyone's good side and isn't giving out scumreads, he is giving out town reads to everyone who is active, he uses other people's ideas to make it look like he's generating content, and he crumbles at the first sight of pressure. If you approach him with a town!Kantrip mentality, though, you can say that he's trying to support a policy lynch to ensure a more active tomorrow (sounds like a slogan of the future lol), he's being honest when he says that he has no scum reads instead of making up garbage, he's positively reinforcing everyone's points, he is trying to push people he beleives to have a possibility of being scum (even if everyone else thinks he's town), and then he stops a conversation once he sees it going down a path of wasting town's time.

You'll see my reasoning for being so indecisive on the slot.

Unvote Hopefully Xatres will be more active than Del.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

hmmm...unvote

Need to rethink this.

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

My scum reads are Gheb and Ryker atm. Everyone else is either town or null

 

[Spak]

My scum reads are Gheb and Ryker atm. Everyone else is either town or null

Would you mind sharing your reasoning?

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

Well, Gheb seems to be dodging a lot and being overall fishy. I don't like Ryker claimed roleblocked for all the reasons everyone else doesn't.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Well, Gheb seems to be dodging a lot and being overall fishy. I don't like Ryker claimed roleblocked for all the reasons everyone else doesn't.

How has Gheb been dodging? What instances?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Need to delve and meditate on J v Ryker.

It's not a simple thing to dive into I feel like.

 

[Xatres]

Hopefully Xatres will be more active than Del.

Working on it. Doing a detailed read and taking notes. Only on page 7 now.

 

[ThatSmasherYouKnow]

Well, he left after Maven brought up a point against him, and still hasn't really contributed anything noteworthy this game, but then again, neither have I, but I'm just getting scum vibes from him. It's hard to describe.

 

[Dastrn]

Dastrn

Do you think we should lynch Ryu toDay? I'd like you to sum up your points on him.

I wouldn't mind seeing Ryu as the target, but I'm not sold on much of anything right now.

No, I can't sum up my points on him right now, for non-game related reasons. I'm going to be pretty sick for the next several days, and I'm going to do a lot more listening and reacting than leading/driving. My brain is mud right now. Lyme disease is a *****.

We'll see what I can put together in my good moments, but they are going to be few and far between over the next few days. You can imagine based on my play yesterDay that I wish it wasn't so. That was part of why I asked for an extension.

 

[Xatres]

You are Xatres' brother, right?

This is literally the first time I've seen someone on Smashboards identify one of my brothers as "Xatres' brother" rather than the other way around.

 

[#HBC | J]

I mean if you just PoE it that's all fine and good with me but you're aware that at some point we may have to concern ourselves with the actual possibility of TSYK being mafia, right? You can backload the process of having to read him onto a later point but I don't think there'll be a way around having to do it at all eventually. So how much leeway are you willing to give him? It's not gonna do us much good if you're just happy with him being super-null forever .

Of course I know I may have to consider that. That's a rather silly thing to suggest that what I am saying is absolute and not fluid. ToDay, he doesn't concern me, but that does not mean he is off the table. That means with the evidence presented and based with my current reads and feelings of other players I do not think of him as a target nor someone I want to look into.

He also isn't "super-null" because I have him as a town-lean.