Trigun Mafia (GAME OVER! TOWN WINS! Night Actions/Results/PMs posted!)

[commonyoshi]

He was having a hissy fit because he screwed himself over with his "I was trying something new" approach. Like you said, that was a horrible defense, but he was just frustrated. I'm not saying I believe him or anything; that's just how I saw it.

 

[Eor]

His silence is starting to make me doubt him, but he hasn't been online for three days

I'll wait for his post

 

[commonyoshi]

He's on vacation like a couple of other players here.

 

[DiamondFalcon]

Ok, I don't know how much this will help, but I went through and checked who everyone has voted for throughout the game, to see if my "Vote shifting" is really true. Here's what I have (I took out votes for people not in the game and self-votes):

Ronike- KevinM, Eorlingas, Pythag, Chill, Blazer

DiamondFalcon- Ronike, spam_master (typo), mask man, Chill, mask man, Blazer, Pythag, commonyoshi

Spam_master- DiamondFalcon, KevinM, commonyoshi, camo-man, Pythag, DiamondFalcon, Chill, DiamondFalcon

Eorlingas- Blazer, commonyoshi, Blazer, Pythag

Mask man/commonyoshi- spam_master, DiamondFalcon, camo-man, Blazer

Camo-man- spam_master

Chill- DiamondFalcon, smashman90, No lynch, Ronike, Blazer, Pythag, Agentli, Pythag

Smashman90- Chill, Mediocre, Agentli

Mediocre- smashman90, Blazer, Pythag

Pythag- spam_master, Ronike, KevinM, Mediocre, spam_master

Blazer- Mediocre, camo-man, Eorlingas, Pythag, Agentli, Pythag

KevinM- Blazer, Pythag

Agentli/Jiano- Chill, Pythag

Ligolski- Pythag

Haven’t voted yet: GotMink, Kada


I'm really sorry if I messed up anywhere, it was a quick skimming.

Now for my votes, I know that when I voted spam_master I really meant it for mask man so I won't count it, and mask man and common are the same person, who I've been suspicious of off and on for mask man's early behavior.
So the one with the most vote shifting would be Chill followed by Spam_master, not me as some have pointed out.

Also, obviously Pythag has been voted on by nearly everyone, and I am still a bit suspicious of his behavior, but to me his role claim rings townie. Of course I could be wrong, but let's let some of our experienced players analyze what information a Pythag lynch would give us.

While skimming back through, KevinM stood on my radars everytime I saw his posts. I'm still very suspicious of him, though I have no real evidence.

Also, where's GotMink?

And I'm sorry commonyoshi... you never did vote Pythag like I had thought.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

10th Official Vote Count

Pythag (3): Jiano, Blazer, Chill
DiamondFalcon (1): spam master

It takes 9 to lynch

 

[spam_master]

There is alot of controversy going around about votes and reasons and amounts, and I think we are forgetting a major detail....It's Day One. After looking at diamonds list I saw that almost ahlf of my votes are joke votes, and I'm sure the smae can be said for the majority of people in this game.

Another major detail, is that all of pythag's votes were on people with very few or no votes on them. And, since he gave no serious argument to declare his suspicion for the players I can only classify his votes as extremely unfunny joke votes.

I think we need to look at what votes were serious attacks on someone with the intent to kill.

Everyone needs to go back and check and see what votes were real and what were jokes, and then we can post a list thaty actually matters.

 

[KevinM]

I think we really need to lynch someone too, this day one is lasting way to long >_>

 

[GotMink]

agdozhsy... I'm here... I have no idea who to vote for though... although I'm suspicious of diamond falcon mostly... it seemed like he just jumped in with the "oh I'm that guy that helped him, I'm innocent too", but maybe he is idk.. I don't feel qualified to make a serious vote as of yet.

 

[Ronike]

Alright, Im back, but I have relatively little to add. Actually, I really dont have anything to add unfortunately. Just consider this, its been day 1 for quite some time now, I think that we really arent gonna get anywhere today. I think its time to lynch an inactive if no one has any better ideas. I personally am still suspiscious of Pythag, but if Im in the minority, Ill drop it for now.

 

[DiamondFalcon]

I think we really need to lynch someone too, this day one is lasting way to long >_>

Would you mind if it were you?

Now my point about Pythag was not that his votes were joke votes or not, but whether we could glean any info based on who all voted for him when we find out his alignment. Granted, he's been acting very suspicious so even townies would have voted for him (I even voted for him earlier), but surely some of the people who voted of him took advantage of the fact that he would be an easy quick lynch (if he turns out to be town). I want to see what some people like Eorlingas and commonyoshi think about this.

Also, I think we should leave joke votes in there. Regardless of whether you actually had reason to vote for someone or not, it always gives a little info to where you stand. But also we have to keep in mind that some mafiats may be voting for other mafiats to throw us off.

 

[Chill]

DF, I've only compared your votes and my own at the moment but you've placed a bit of a spin on that list.

Here's my votes: DiamondFalcon, smashman90, No lynch, Ronike, Blazer, Pythag, Agentli, Pythag

The first one was interestingly for the same reason some people have voted for you now. I saw you changing votes and made mention of this when I voted for you. The no lynch is not against a specific player. I only unvoted Pythag when everyone was well past the idea of a lynch. I kept that vote on him for a long time and the last pythag vote was when Jiano agreed with the points I had made.

Really, my votes have been DiamondFalcon,smashman, Ronike,Blazer, Pythag,Agentli

If we ignore everything I just said and look solely at the amount of votes this is what we get.

Chill- DiamondFalcon, smashman90, No lynch, Ronike, Blazer, Pythag, Agentli, Pythag

Spam_master- DiamondFalcon, KevinM, commonyoshi, camo-man, Pythag, DiamondFalcon, Chill, DiamondFalcon

DiamondFalcon- Ronike, spam_master (typo), mask man, Chill, mask man, Blazer, Pythag, commonyoshi

Notice that each person has 8 votes. But you said

So the one with the most vote shifting would be Chill followed by Spam_master, not me as some have pointed out.

Interesting that you would list myself as the one having the most vote changes, spam master secondly and basically leave yourself off of the list despite having the exact same amount of votes.

At the very least one of my votes was aimed at no one in particular and two have been for the same person. All of your votes have been for a different person.

 

[DiamondFalcon]

At the very least one of my votes was aimed at no one in particular and two have been for the same person. All of your votes have been for a different person.

That is not true. mask man/commonyoshi are the same, and so I voted for him 3 times.
I'm sorry for sticking you out like that, I'm really not at all suspicious of you because of your votes. I was just pointing out that I was not "Vote shifting" all that much in comparison. When I was counting though, I didn't count mask man's but once, and my name but once for spam_master, so you broke the tie. Either way, I'm sure you have your reasons for voting each one.

Regardless, what do you think about the other stuff I said?

 

[Jiano]

DiamondFalcon, I think the main point you're missing is spam_master and Chill actually post content with their votes.

Super FoS on DiamondFalcon. Only reason I won't vote for him is Pythag somehow managed to act even more scummy.

On an unrelated note, I'm going to a tournament tomorrow night and probably won't be back until Sunday sometime. I assume we are waiting for Pythag to come back and see if he can muster any sort of defense, though.

 

[DiamondFalcon]

I just can't see how I appear scummy to everybody. I am trying to be as openly honest as possible because I have nothing to hide. I already stated that it is Day 1 and I give as much a reason as possible, or sometimes just how someone states something makes them appear to be suspicious. Votes can be used to gather more information and are rather useful on Day 1 to figuring out where people stand, or seeing reactions. If you have something against this then you are most likely scum. It's people that bandwagon for a random Day 1 lynch, or people that refuse to give out any information that we should be looking at. I'm trying my best here to set us on a path, and I keep getting accused. What am I supposed to do? Just step back and wait until someone claims mafia?

 

[Ronike]

While I think the miscount was a little scummy, I dunno if it warrants a vote or super FOS. Sure, its scummy, but then again he could possibly have simply miscounted or what not. Chill Jiano.

 

[Mediocre]

I say we lynch DiamondFalcon.

First of all, I think we all agree that his actions have been highly suspicious. I think everybody here has some doubts about him (with the possible exception of Pythag).

Furthermore, by lynching DiamondFalcon we could very well be able to determine Pythag's allegiance. See, if DiamondFalcon is mafia, there's absolutely no reason for him to stick his neck out for a townie. Therefore, Pythag is also mafia.

Even if DiamondFalcon is town, lynching him still might give us some hint as to Pythag's allegiance. If DiamondFalcon is the role he claimed, and that role is actually town, it's likely that Pythag is telling the truth too.

My reasoning for this is complicated. It would be dangerous for a mafia member to roleclaim a non-mafia role, because the number of possible town roles is very limited. Therefore, it's likely that both DiamondFalcon and Pythag's roleclaims are true.However, they could have simply claimed the opposite allegiance for the role they were actually playing. They're very similar roles. If one is town, the other is likely to be town too.

Now, this is by no means a flawless plan. It's extremely risky, just as risky as any other Day 1 lynch would be. However, what differentiates this lynch is that the potential benefits outstrip any other lynch.

This is the only lynch with the potential to tell us more than the identity of the person we lynched.

With that said, I'm going to Vote: DiamondFalcon

I don't think we're likely to get any more information by waiting.

 

[DiamondFalcon]

While I think the miscount was a little scummy, I dunno if it warrants a vote or super FOS. Sure, its scummy, but then again he could possibly have simply miscounted or what not. Chill Jiano.

Wait, what did I miscount? I was trying to help by doing all that counting, not mislead.

 

[DiamondFalcon]

And Mediocre, why would a mafiat come out and defend someone like Pythag who keeps making blundering mistakes and attracting everyone's suspicions (even my own). I defended him because I feel he is telling the truth about his role based on my own role, and lynching me proves nothing about him. Your "plan" is highly suspicious to me.

 

[Chill]

I would feel much better about lynching Pythag. I don't think Diamond Falcon has done much to deserve a lynch. I didn't like the way I felt that he was trying to single me out but I'm not terribly suspicous of him. We've already been over the reasons of why lynching Pythag would be better if you believe one of the two to be mafia.

 

[KevinM]

Well i don't think so Chill, just think if we lynch Pythag and he happens to be Mafia, we still don't know if DF is either town or mafia, obviously it would be then suspicious but he could play the i didn't know he was mafia card. He could just pass it off as a stupid mistake. Lynching DF seems more concrete at this point, plus DF shakes the game up a lot with his rapid voting.. i don't know voting DF seems like a good idea atm

 

[Ronike]

By miscount, I meant whatever Chill was saying, it just sounded like you miscounted or something to me. As for the lynch, I agree with Chill, I'd be better off lynching Pythag than DF.

 

[Eor]

I do not support lynching Diamond Falcon, and really fail to see us getting anything out of it. We're cautious about lynching Pythag and messing up, so we'll just kill the guy who defended him to see if it confirms what we think? And even if the guy is town, it's nothing but a missed kill. It doesn't confirm anything. I think it's an incredibly stupid stratagy. If we can't decide on killing someone, then we try harder. We don't give up and just kill someone in the hopes it'll give us information. Any kill would give us information. I might as well say we should all kill Mediocre, because if he's mafia then we know Diamond Falcon isn't, and most likely by association Pythag isn't.

I'm still waiting for Pythag to turn up

 

[Jiano]

Killing one does not confirm the other at all.

Furthermore, by lynching DiamondFalcon we could very well be able to determine Pythag's allegiance. See, if DiamondFalcon is mafia, there's absolutely no reason for him to stick his neck out for a townie. Therefore, Pythag is also mafia.

I'm not following this. If he's mafia and Pythag is town then he could be defending him to appear less scummy, which apparently would work since you don't see any reason for DF to defend Pythag.

 

[Mediocre]

And Mediocre, why would a mafiat come out and defend someone like Pythag who keeps making blundering mistakes and attracting everyone's suspicions (even my own). I defended him because I feel he is telling the truth about his role based on my own role, and lynching me proves nothing about him. Your "plan" is highly suspicious to me.

Well, it's pretty obvious why you would defend Pythag if you were both mafia. For the mafia to lose even one person this early in the game would set you back quite a ways. You guys probably couldn't afford it.

I do not support lynching Diamond Falcon, and really fail to see us getting anything out of it. We're cautious about lynching Pythag and messing up, so we'll just kill the guy who defended him to see if it confirms what we think? And even if the guy is town, it's nothing but a missed kill. It doesn't confirm anything. I think it's an incredibly stupid stratagy. If we can't decide on killing someone, then we try harder.

I don't see what Pythag can tell us that he hasn't already. If he's town, the only thing he can do is stick to his story, because it's true. If he's mafia, the only thing he can do is stick to his story, because anything else would make him look like a liar. I'm not really sure what we gain by waiting for Pythag to return.

In fact, the reason I made this proposal in the in the first place was because I don't think that we're likely to get much more information from anyone. I think that everyone that's playing has either already made their big blunders, or isn't going to make any at all. The people that were playing sloppy are now on their guard; the people that weren't aren't likely to start now.

We don't give up and just kill someone in the hopes it'll give us information. Any kill would give us information. I might as well say we should all kill Mediocre, because if he's mafia then we know Diamond Falcon isn't, and most likely by association Pythag isn't.

We don't? What do we do instead? Wait for Pythag to get back and tell us the same thing he's told us before?

And, honestly, your lynching Mediocre plan sounds just fine to me. Perfectly sensible. Just because I'm the one that you're suggesting we lynch doesn't mean that the basis of the plan is unreasonable.

I'm not following this. If he's mafia and Pythag is town then he could be defending him to appear less scummy, which apparently would work since you don't see any reason for DF to defend Pythag.

See, I thought about that, but it doesn't strike me as the type of strategy that DiamondFalcon is very likely to try.

If he's mafia, I just don't see him sticking his neck out for a townie when there's no immediate advantage to doing so. If we can be certain of one thing about DiamondFalcon, it's that he doesn't plan for the long term. His voting pattern shows that.


So, yeah. You guys do what you will, but I think this is the best course of action. For now, I'm keeping my vote on DiamondFalcon.

 

[DiamondFalcon]

I do not support lynching Diamond Falcon, and really fail to see us getting anything out of it. We're cautious about lynching Pythag and messing up, so we'll just kill the guy who defended him to see if it confirms what we think? And even if the guy is town, it's nothing but a missed kill. It doesn't confirm anything. I think it's an incredibly stupid stratagy. If we can't decide on killing someone, then we try harder. We don't give up and just kill someone in the hopes it'll give us information. Any kill would give us information. I might as well say we should all kill Mediocre, because if he's mafia then we know Diamond Falcon isn't, and most likely by association Pythag isn't.

I'm still waiting for Pythag to turn up

QFT.

I still want to wait until Pythag comes back before we decide anything, but it is true that a Mediocre lynch would be far more revealing than my lynch. (Plus the whole smashman90 thing at the beginning). Also, KevinM is being very vindictive and close-minded... I already discussed this, I have not been "rapidly voting" or anything of that nature. You seem to be a mafiat who doesn't want to let this opportunity to lynch me get out of your hands.

Vote: Mediocre
FOS: KevinM

 

[Jiano]

QFT.

I still want to wait until Pythag comes back before we decide anything, but it is true that a Mediocre lynch would be far more revealing than my lynch. (Plus the whole smashman90 thing at the beginning). Also, KevinM is being very vindictive and close-minded... I already discussed this, I have not been "rapidly voting" or anything of that nature. You seem to be a mafiat who doesn't want to let this opportunity to lynch me get out of your hands.

Vote: Mediocre
FOS: KevinM

You've gotta be kidding me. OMGUS vote at its finest.

 

[commonyoshi]

I didn't support Pythag's lynch so there sure isn't any reason why I should support this one.

But if you're going to lynch either Pythag or Diamond, I'd have to say go with Diamond for strategy's sake.

 

[Eor]

QFT.

I still want to wait until Pythag comes back before we decide anything, but it is true that a Mediocre lynch would be far more revealing than my lynch. (Plus the whole smashman90 thing at the beginning). Also, KevinM is being very vindictive and close-minded... I already discussed this, I have not been "rapidly voting" or anything of that nature. You seem to be a mafiat who doesn't want to let this opportunity to lynch me get out of your hands.

Vote: Mediocre
FOS: KevinM

And you are just trying to push the spotlight off yourself

Mediocre, the main thing I'm getting at is that if he's town, we know nothing new. We might know that Pythag is most likely town, but if the mafia just nightkill him, then we've done nothing. Killing someone is not the only way people get information, and thinking so will make us loose. I'm suspicious of you for thinking so.

In fact, almost all of your strategies have involved in just murdering people, and almost never because they're suspicious. It's that you think they're dumb, or now, where you're basically saying we cannot get information without just killing someone.

None of that sits well with me

 

[Pythag]

Yeah, so I'm back.
..aaand I'm about to leave again, although this time, I will have internet access. So no worries.

Well, I really am not sure what you guys are waiting for me to say.
My role claims I'm town and that I win with town.

Diamond what the heck are you doing?
I know I was greatful you stepped out and defended me, but I'm starting to think that you're trying to use my predicament/stupidity to your advantage. It's weirding me out, and I don't like it...


Jiano did you repleace someone? I'm sorry but I don't remember you :-/

 

[Jiano]

Jiano did you repleace someone? I'm sorry but I don't remember you :-/

I replaced Agentli.

Won't be posting again until Sunday.

 

[Mediocre]

And you are just trying to push the spotlight off yourself

Mediocre, the main thing I'm getting at is that if he's town, we know nothing new. We might know that Pythag is most likely town, but if the mafia just nightkill him, then we've done nothing. Killing someone is not the only way people get information, and thinking so will make us loose. I'm suspicious of you for thinking so.

In fact, almost all of your strategies have involved in just murdering people, and almost never because they're suspicious. It's that you think they're dumb, or now, where you're basically saying we cannot get information without just killing someone.

None of that sits well with me

Look where we are right now. We're no closer to a lynch than we were on page 10.

So, yeah, you're right. It's much smarter to wait around and try to garner information without resorting to a lynch. But it's so ****ing boring. I'm bored of day 1.

If I thought we were likely to get some kind of new information in the near future, I'd definitely want to wait before any kind of lynch happened. But it's just as likely that we're going to wait a few weeks and find ourselves in pretty much the same situation that we are now.

 

[Ronike]

I dont like the "kill mediocre to find stuff out" thingy eor, I actually thought you were being sarcastic at first. Just doesnt sit well with me. Same with Diamond wanting to do it, and now that Eor points it out, most of your stuff relies on senslessly murdering... so to sum up...
FOS: Eor
More Fos: DF

 

[commonyoshi]

Haha, Ronike. I think you should go back and re-read Eor's post again more clearly this time.

 

[smashman90]

Well, I am back from vacation and after reading everything I am surprised that we are still in Day 1. I am a little tired so I am gonna reread everything later tonight and post more of my thoughts.

 

[Ronike]

Whoops, my bad. I made that post about a minute before I had to go to work, so mentally I replaced all the mediocre's in Eor's post with DFs...
So yeah, my bad, but I still dont like Eor's plan...
Degrade DF's Fos level
Fos: Mediocre

 

[DiamondFalcon]

Pythag: What are you talking about? Using it to help myself? I put myself in the spotlight where the mafia could easily target me, and off of you, because I trusted you. Now, everyone's been calling for you, so now that you're back could you give the defense everyone's apparently wanting (start by explaining why so many unexplained votes)?

Eorlingas: I trust you now, and believe you are town. Maybe I shouldn't have voted for Mediocre yet, but I really have a feeling that he is mafia after his latest few posts, and I think that your idea that lynching him would reveal more information is the best one out there.

Jiano: That was not an OMGUS vote at all. I even hesitated to jump straight to vote, but I believe him to be mafia and lynching him would not only give information about me and Pythag, but also others like smashman90 who he pushed against earlier. Lynching me would reveal me to be townie, and perhaps hint at Pythag (though it wouldn't confirm anything) but the mafia would keep ragging on him for his unexplained suspicious activity until he is (mis)lynched as well.
I was going to post all the possibilities and discuss why they are/aren't likely (DF-town/mafia/indpt, Pythag-town/mafia/indpt) but of course it would be biased since I know my role. If it would help give more info to back my claim, I'll do it if no one else wants to.

 

[camo-man]

it's day 1, so nothing solid, but I think we have our 2 lynch candidates?

 

[Blazer]

I think Pythag has more votes on him so I say we go ahead and put him as the number 1 contender for a lynch. Maybe that's just the laziness talking though...

 

[Eor]

Are you people serious?

Did you not understand a thing I said?

I am not saying we should lynch Mediocre in order to get information

That is against everything I have been saying. The entire entity of my post was against doing so. I used Mediocre as an example to show that we can claim the same about lynching anybody. How this failed to be understood is beyond me.

If I was more paranoid, I'd think this was a mafia conspiracy to lynch Medi and blame it on me.

Medi, just becuase we're bored of Day 1 does not mean we need to do a shot in the dark. We get almost no information out of it if Diamond Falcon is town. We have agreed that some "evil" roles will be good ones, this does not mean that all evil roles will be good. Pythag is not confirmed town if Diamond is town.

If it turns out all of you are for killing someone in order to get information out of this, then I'm going to demand we vote for one of the instigators of the plan.

 

[spam_master]

Jiano: That was not an OMGUS vote at all. I even hesitated to jump straight to vote(lol, just like you've been carefully concidering your votes all game), but I believe him to be mafia and lynching him would not only give information about me and Pythag, but also others like smashman90 who he pushed against earlier. Lynching me would reveal me to be townie, and perhaps hint at Pythag (though it wouldn't confirm anything) but the mafia would keep ragging on him for his unexplained suspicious activity until he is (mis)lynched as well.
I was going to post all the possibilities and discuss why they are/aren't likely (DF-town/mafia/indpt, Pythag-town/mafia/indpt) but of course it would be biased since I know my role. If it would help give more info to back my claim, I'll do it if no one else wants to.

This is spin at it's finest and least concealed. In the first bold sentence he uses the lynch for information idea to justify his vote for meiocre, someone who never even mentioned as being suspicious until med voted for him. And, in the second bold sentence he essentially sys how lynch him would have a very low chance of providing info. So basicly he's saying that a lynch against an obscure party would provide much more highly credible information then a person who was directly afiliated with the suspicious parties. This is such an error in logic that my head almost exploded.

Most important is the last bolded sentence, this implies that one or more people have information on his role that the general group doesn't. What group os people would come out to support his role claim.... maybe his mafia partners.

If it turns out all of you are for killing someone in order to get information out of this, then I'm going to demand we vote for one of the instigators of the plan.

Becasue we all are totally gonna follow your demands /sarcasm. If your so against the plan to lynch someone we find suspicious and gain soem info in the process then what is your plan?