Tournament Mode [1.1.0] Community Patch Notes

[Natch]

In the main post, it mentioned the word "charge" in relation to Mii Swordfighter's "Neutral Special 1". It doesn't charge at all-only the 3rd one can "charge". Neutral special 3 in the flurry of sword stabs(only one that can charge) whereas Neutral special 1 is the Tornado.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

In the main post, it mentioned the word "charge" in relation to Mii Swordfighter's "Neutral Special 1". It doesn't charge at all-only the 3rd one can "charge". Neutral special 3 in the flurry of sword stabs(only one that can charge) whereas Neutral special 1 is the Tornado.

Lol, @ Shaya goofed between mii gunner and swordfighter. It's Gunner's Neutral 1 (charge shot) and Swordfighter's Side 2 (Ike's Quickdraw) that have the changes, but they're listed in the wrong character.

 

[[Deuce]]

Okay so roll and spotdodge invulerability ends one frame sooner, does this also mean the FAF after roll/spotdodge is one frame sooner as well?

ie did they delete one frame in the entire animation or did they replace an invulnerable frame with a vulerable one

 

[Lavani]

I can't make heads or tails of this. Is there any way to focus on one character?

It's not the most elegant solution, but (in Firefox at least) you can right click > Inspect Element and just delete all the rows you don't want.

or did they replace an invulnerable frame with a vulerable one

That.

 

[Big O]

I can't make heads or tails of this. Is there any way to focus on one character? Also, does this table show startup changes?

You could just highlight the row you want so you can scroll and not lose track of which line is which character. You could also copy paste the table in like excel or something.

That table is just some of the missing stuff we were never able to find before like invincibility frames and IASA/FAF frames. Startup/damage/pretty much everything else changes would show up in mastercore. Comparing between versions beyond 1.04 automatically is something you'd have to do on your own atm with these semi-parsed raws. The higher the number, the later the version is probably.

 

[Nysyr]

So I went and made a spreadsheet for all Roll/SpotDodge/AirDodge data with FAF taken from http://smashboards.com/threads/roll-air-dodge-frame-data.401323/

Ryu I have no idea what his FAF is for any of them, and Roy/Lucas I assumed them to be copies of their relative.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ucsqCCVuzR7ZV5NJh-mcRpTeA2lxIoRjIQFYDl12RN0/edit?usp=sharing

So without startup taken into account the most vulnerability frames in each category is:

SpotDodge
Lucario 11 frames

RollBack
Greninja 17 frames

RollFWD
Lucario 16 frames

AirDodge
Lucario 7 frames

Edit: Updating Duckhunt FAF

 

[Arhat]

http://prntscr.com/7zgvrs
Neutral 1 any charge? Uhh, Sword Mii's neutral 1 has no 'charge'. Guessing Sword and Gunner are supposed to be swapped...especially since Sword lacks missiles =P

So why isn't a pair of kirby's MK's nutsack? Excuse my French.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I think it's about time we confirm the other change to Mega Man's Leaf Shield. Prior to this patch, when the shield was thrown, it would hit targets exactly once and keep moving past them. There was no re-hit rate or anything. Post-patch, the shield now has a rehit rate that's about the same as the rate that the shield hits people when it surrounds megaman. It's extremely likely that the thrown shield will double hit opponents as well when thrown accurately. Especially when the target is medium sized or larger.

This is the third buff to Mega Man's leaf shield, and only now does it sound like there's a reason to ever throw the thing as a projectile.

 

[GroundZero996]

Has dropping shield had any frame data changes?

 

[Shaya]

Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[14][1] from 22.0 to 19.0
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[14][10] from 36.0 to 33.0
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[14][19] from 42.0 to 39.0

Lucina got the same. I think these are the landing lag of all three of our up specials.

According to the dumps only the up tilt change of FAF 40 to 37 is there as a move change.
Landing lag on all of our aerials aren't?

And there's this
Shieldbreaker + customs:
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[219][2] from 42 to 40
...
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[22D][2] from 42 to 40

Dancing Blade 1 + customs.
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[22E][2] from 42 to 40
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[22F][2] from 42 to 40
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[230][2] from 42 to 40

Which means that dancing blade 1 on the ground got buffed again as well (no one noticed?)

and yeah... where's aerial landing lag? :<

 

[Linkshot]

Compiled a cool list now that I'm feeling confident about the Standards. Somebody wanna check these or decipher the dirty stuff?

 

[A_Kae]

Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[14][1] from 22.0 to 19.0
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[14][10] from 36.0 to 33.0
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[14][19] from 42.0 to 39.0

Lucina got the same. I think these are the landing lag of all three of our up specials.

According to the dumps only the up tilt change of FAF 40 to 37 is there as a move change.
Landing lag on all of our aerials aren't?

And there's this
Shieldbreaker + customs:
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[219][2] from 42 to 40
...
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[22D][2] from 42 to 40

Dancing Blade 1 + customs.
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[22E][2] from 42 to 40
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[22F][2] from 42 to 40
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[230][2] from 42 to 40

Which means that dancing blade 1 on the ground got buffed again as well (no one noticed?)

and yeah... where's aerial landing lag? :<

Are you sure that that's DB1? Isn't it 43 frames total?

 

[Vipermoon]

Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[14][1] from 22.0 to 19.0
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[14][10] from 36.0 to 33.0
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[14][19] from 42.0 to 39.0

Lucina got the same. I think these are the landing lag of all three of our up specials.

According to the dumps only the up tilt change of FAF 40 to 37 is there as a move change.
Landing lag on all of our aerials aren't?

And there's this
Shieldbreaker + customs:
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[219][2] from 42 to 40
...
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[22D][2] from 42 to 40

Dancing Blade 1 + customs.
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[22E][2] from 42 to 40
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[22F][2] from 42 to 40
Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[230][2] from 42 to 40

Which means that dancing blade 1 on the ground got buffed again as well (no one noticed?)

and yeah... where's aerial landing lag? :<

I was wondering why there were so many of these 42 to 40s. 6 for aerial neutral B and 6 for ground doesn't cover it all. But like A_Kae said DB1 is 42 total frames/43 FAF so this doesn't make sense still.

But I have a couple of questions. Why is neutral B regarded as 40/42 frames? W/out charge times thanks A_Kae.

The game seems to subtract 1 for landing lag. Why does look at it that way?

 

[A_Kae]

I was wondering why there were so many of these 42 to 40s. 6 for aerial neutral B and 6 for ground doesn't cover it all. But like A_Kae said DB1 is 42 total frames/43 FAF so this doesn't make sense still.

But I have a couple of questions. Why is neutral B regarded as 40/42 frames? The game seems to subtract 1 for landing lag. Why does look at it that way?

Probably because the charge state is ignored? Mastercore has shield breaker hit on F8, when it actually hits on F19.

Min charge time is 11 frames, so a FAF of 53 minus 11 is 42.

 

[Shaya]

Are you sure that that's DB1? Isn't it 43 frames total?

http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/mastercore2/index.php?char=marth&mode=view104#subaction-22E

Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[22E][2]

I was wondering why there were so many of these 42 to 40s. 6 for aerial neutral B and 6 for ground doesn't cover it all. But like A_Kae said DB1 is 42 total frames/43 FAF so this doesn't make sense still.

But I have a couple of questions. Why is neutral B regarded as 40/42 frames? The game seems to subtract 1 for landing lag. Why does look at it that way?

Someone should test the animations of dancing blade #_#
Inconsistent measurements is sooo normal for smash bros.

And shieldbreaker has two parts for the animation.
the start up, and then the release.

 

[Vipermoon]

Probably because the charge state is ignored? Mastercore has shield breaker hit on F8, when it actually hits on F19.

Min charge time is 11 frames, so a FAF of 53 minus 11 is 42.

Still, it doesn't explain storm and dashing. Those are laggier than SB but charge the same and come out the same frame.

http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/mastercore2/index.php?char=marth&mode=view104#subaction-22E

Changed fighter_param_vl_marth.bin[0]sub[22E][2]



Someone should test the animations of dancing blade #_#
Inconsistent measurements is sooo normal for smash bros.

And shieldbreaker has two parts for the animation.
the start up, and then the release.

So looking at the chart now, I see DB1 ground is 39 total frames and that it used to be 41 even though multiple people had it at 42. Well okay then. Can't find aerial DB in here though

Edit: and there are some random faf values in there too... like 41 and 52.

 

[Shaya]

Dark Pit:
Changed fighter_param_vl_pitb.bin[19][1] from 3.5 to 3.70000004768
Changed fighter_param_vl_pitb.bin[19][4] from 3.5 to 3.70000004768
Changed fighter_param_vl_pitb.bin[19][7] from 3.75 to 4.19999980927

Cookies to anyone who can figure this out. It looks like very similar numbers to what we see as hitbox sizes. [14][1] for Marth was default up special landing lag. 19 could be down special related or perhaps get up attack data or similar?

So in other words, Pit had his rapid finisher hitboxes increased in size, while Dark Pit has had some random attack's hitbox sizes increased independently.

 

[JipC]

How come nobody has brought up the Doc pill buff?
Didn't they only do 4 - 4.5% pre-patch? And now they do 5.5% in training mode

 

[TaurToph]

Hey guys, I've been playing Toon Link and the only change I noticed was reduced nair landing lag. I came here to see if it was placebo, and you guys found the same. Then it was deconfirmed. I'm really confused right now. Such a weird coincidence. Maybe something else changed?

 

[LancerStaff]

Dark Pit:
Changed fighter_param_vl_pitb.bin[19][1] from 3.5 to 3.70000004768
Changed fighter_param_vl_pitb.bin[19][4] from 3.5 to 3.70000004768
Changed fighter_param_vl_pitb.bin[19][7] from 3.75 to 4.19999980927

Cookies to anyone who can figure this out. It looks like very similar numbers to what we see as hitbox sizes. [14][1] for Marth was default up special landing lag. 19 could be a side special or perhaps get up attack data?

Hmm... Is this with the other projectiles? If not, my bet is the Fspecial. Which would be freakin' awesome. Unless this is the rapid jab finisher again. I'm gonna look at it here in a bit.

 

[A_Kae]

Still, it doesn't explain storm and dashing. Those are laggier than SB but charge the same and come out the same frame.



So looking at the chart now, I see DB1 ground is 39 total frames and that it used to be 41 even though multiple people had it at 42. Well okay then. Can't find aerial DB in here though

Edit: and there are some random faf values in there too... like 41 and 52.

Aerial DB (I think) is action 255. FAF of 30 in the table. That's probably not taking the frame speed multipliers in to account (so it's the 30th animation frame, 33rd real frame).

 

[TheReflexWonder]

How come nobody has brought up the Doc pill buff?
Didn't they only do 4 - 4.5% pre-patch? And now they do 5.5% in training mode

The data dump doesn't take articles into account, and most people don't play Doctor Mario. That's pretty cool, though.

 

[Lavani]

http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/diff-128-144/pitb_bowarrow.html

Neutral B

- Arrow damage increased ~3.3%→~3.7%​

 

[Firefoxx]

To give some context for the Falcon rapid jab ender change, it now follows the animation. So the disjoint now matches the particle effect that in front of his fist. Its a fairly large difference.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

How come nobody has brought up the Doc pill buff?
Didn't they only do 4 - 4.5% pre-patch? And now they do 5.5% in training mode

They did 5.5% pre-patch. Damage is dependent on distance traveled. They are strongest at close range. This is the case with pills as well as Mario and Luigi's Fireballs, and their custom counterparts.

Looks like Mii Brawler has some changes to damage. The first hit of Fair damage was increased from 3 to 4%. All three of the mii fighters have changes to endlag in this patch, so I hope somebody checks the dump for damage, knockback, angle, etc. I'm tired of checking things the old fashioned way for today.

 

[Shaya]

Never mind, based Zapp

 

[Vipermoon]

Aerial DB (I think) is action 255. FAF of 30 in the table. That's probably not taking the frame speed multipliers in to account (so it's the 30th animation frame, 33rd real frame).

Found them, thanks. 30 + 3 frames start-up = 33 FAF so looks like it's been a 32 total frame action (we've been saying 33) It actually makes too much sense to look for it after grounded DB4 down. It's late, I gotta sleep.

But I just noticed something really interesting, aerial DB2 and 3 actually have a lot more lag...not only do they match Melee animations in the air but they apparently match Melee/Brawl lag too (I see 40 and 46 total frames). Also interesting that DB4 down has Brawl lag too at 65 total frames. I wish grounded DB4 down was like that. It needs some major shield safety improvements.

 

[WeirdJoe27]

How come nobody has brought up the Doc pill buff?
Didn't they only do 4 - 4.5% pre-patch? And now they do 5.5% in training mode

Pill seem to be the same to me.

 

[LimitCrown]

How come nobody has brought up the Doc pill buff?
Didn't they only do 4 - 4.5% pre-patch? And now they do 5.5% in training mode

Dr. Mario's Megavitamin attack is unchanged. The Megavitamins deal 5.6% damage at close range and 4.48% at long range.

 

[Saturn_]

Do we have a number for the number of frames of landing lag on 's Bair? It used to be 36 frames of lag, do we know the new total? It just says "landing lag reduced" in the OP.

 

[Shaya]

http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/diff-128-144/mewtwo_search.html

Is this Side-B?
I'm thinking that the 0xE to 0x2 would have to be something along the lines of the strength at which it hits you, or perhaps reflection duration (14 to 2 frames would be huge though...).

http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/diff-128-144/lucas_pkthunder.html
PK Thunder hitbox size 3.5 to 3.8

http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/diff-128-144/reflet_thunder.html
A damage buff on Arcthunder? 11% to 12.7%?

And another damage buff on Thoron multi hits? 5% to 5.8%?

And Fox got laser end lag buffs on all three lasers.... while Falco didn't get anything this time again...
LOL.
Sigh.

 

[LoreLes]

So are these Marth reductions real? Reading mixed stuff about it and I can't really notice it when I'm playing.

 

[Megalopunny3]

To give some context for the Falcon rapid jab ender change, it now follows the animation. So the disjoint now matches the particle effect that in front of his fist. Its a fairly large difference.

Falcons rapid Jab moves him a lot farther back and you can escape at 0 idk why they nerfed it so much. I mean gentleman is better but why

 

[Firefoxx]

Falcons rapid Jab moves him a lot farther back and you can escape at 0 idk why they nerfed it so much. I mean gentleman is better but why

Because the range was absurd before. It should have never been that disjointed

 

[Saturn_]

Yeah Falcon's jab finisher used to be ridiculous...

 

[Vipermoon]

Because the range was absurd before. It should have never been that disjointed

Remember in Dragon Ball (not Z) when Goku's fist was so fast it send a shockwave that blew/knocked Chi Chi out of the ring? That's pre-patch Cpt. Falcon jab.

 

[DanGR]

Changed fighter_param_vl_link.bin[19][0] from 3.0 to 2.95000004768
Changed fighter_param_vl_link.bin[19][1] from 25.0 to 24.9500007629

Probably not very relevant given the magnitude of the change, but I haven't seen this listed for Link yet.
edit: And I've no clue what move this is for.

 

[Megalopunny3]

Because the range was absurd before. It should have never been that disjointed

It was pretty wack but really it wasn't anything broken, like Luigis down throw or Rosalinas Up air

 

[Linkshot]

Another update on sorting the data dump. Hopefully all of these are correct (buffs are cool!), will help with tackling the rest of the parameters tomorrow.

 

[Arthur_O]

Reposting:

Things I can confirm about :

1.1.0 MK's sword-trails are tighter. I can't get the sword trails to touch the foe without actually hitting them anymore. These moves are:

• F-Tilt
• F-Air (In fact the 3rd hit of F-Air's hitbox is longer than the sword-trail makes it out to be.)
• B-Air
• and D-Smash

• Up-Smash has sword-trails to the sides now, giving it a half-circle shape which is more accurate to the move itself.

It took 10 patches but MK no longer has moves that are shorter than their sword-trails.

Does this mean meta knight's sword trails are shorter than than they were in previous versions or did the sword trails remain the same size as previous versions and the hitbox now matches them?