Tournament Mode [1.1.0] Community Patch Notes

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Was playing with WFT's Side B earlier. So with the default, the landing lag after hitting the ball is reduced. And the custom versions don't have this reduction. HOWEVER, there's also special fall landing lag if you hit the shield button to cancel the attack before striking the ball. Both default and custom Side Bs have a reduction in landing lag post-patch when doing this cancel. I have to wonder if this is a genuine oversight or not. If WFT could act faster out of hitting Side B 3, I would be genuinely afraid of this character in a customs environment. Whereas the default side B needs all the help it can get to be useful.

Do we have a number for the number of frames of landing lag on 's Bair? It used to be 36 frames of lag, do we know the new total? It just says "landing lag reduced" in the OP.

36 -> 33. Counted by @LordWilliam1234

A lot of numbers still need to be added to the OP.

Never mind, based Zapp

...based on what!? Based on how you have Mii Swordsman's Up B 2 in Mii Gunner's category? Man, get real.

 

[TheWozny]

@ Megalopunny3 , I'm still in awe that they overall buffed Luigi.

A grave mistake.

 

[Vipermoon]

Another update on sorting the data dump. Hopefully all of these are correct (buffs are cool!), will help with tackling the rest of the parameters tomorrow.

Marth's grounded dancing blade 1 was changed again and is also a 42 > 40. Very recently figured out in this thread.

 

[TheWozny]

I had high hopes for this patch as well. I have been whining about his up smash for a while now so I'm glad they're making an attempt to make it better.

It baffles me that they put in so much effort into fine tuning the fire emblem cast but seem to ignore Doc's shortcomings.

Let's cross our fingers for the next patch.

I feel you guys...
*Samus cries in the corner*

 

[PHILS]

interesting this update, bowser needs another buff xD

 

[A_Kae]

Still, it doesn't explain storm and dashing. Those are laggier than SB but charge the same and come out the same frame.

This seems to be due to frame speed multipliers. It is for dashing assault, at least. I expect Storm thrust and the DB customs to be the same way.

 

[Saturn_]

36 -> 33. Counted by @LordWilliam1234

A lot of numbers still need to be added to the OP.

Aw man, I was hoping it was like 10+ frames

 

[Luig]

Japan plays very differently, they believe Luigi sucks so he gets buffed, but they believe Sonic is top 3 and should be nerfed to oblivion.

 

[Yikarur]

I wouldnt consider a 3 frames ending lag increase on his most important move a buff.

 

[Luig]

Yeah, if anything, the changes balance out and he is less braindead but with more potential rewards for playing good (like Upb)

But you never could play Luigi that braindead in a tournament anyway.

 

[TheWozny]

Because the range was absurd before. It should have never been that disjointed

I still think the distance his jab sends you is absurd tbh

 

[Saturn_]

I wouldnt consider a 3 frames ending lag increase on his most important move a buff.

As someone who plays a lot of Luigi, I don't understand anyone who says he got buffed. The damage reduction to Fair and the FAF nerf to fireball are very significant. Dtilt has no range and no priority so the tripping mechanic will not come up much.

The buff to Up-B is nice though.

 

[TheWozny]

Japan plays very differently, they believe Luigi sucks so he gets buffed, but they believe Sonic is top 3 and should be nerfed to oblivion.

Sonic's spindash is very... "dumb" imo... I think the time it takes to cancel spindash should be increased, but let's save that for another patch.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I really really don't want to add to this back and forth about the whether changes to a character are justified. This is a thread dedicated to chronicling changes because we can't expect anybody else to do it. If you want to talk about a character so bad, we have dedicated sub forums for all of them.

...But I will say I'll be super stoked once dedicated Luigi players start making use of the new Dtilt for jab locking. The angle change from 74 to Sakurai angle gives a new access to the tech. Sure his Fireball was always fantastic as a lock move, but it required so much time to come out you'd miss the window after a footstool setup. You can't fast fall when performing special moves from the air. In general I just like it when an unusable move gets updated for new or better applications. And if they really are going for a schedule of more frequent updates to Smash 4, then I expect to see more of that.

 

[tsuchinoko]

Just checking, smashwiki has an additional buff for not listed here. Apparently his PSI magnet does an additional 1% damage since the patch.

8%-->9%

 

[Lavani]

...But I will say I'll be super stoked once dedicated Luigi players start making use of the new Dtilt for jab locking. The angle change from 74 to Sakurai angle gives a new access to the tech. Sure his Fireball was always fantastic as a lock move, but it required so much time to come out you'd miss the window after a footstool setup. You can't fast fall when performing special moves from the air. In general I just like it when an unusable move gets updated for new or better applications. And if they really are going for a schedule of more frequent updates to Smash 4, then I expect to see more of that.

I was thinking the same thing when messing with dtilt in training earlier today. This combined with the upB buff is going to be really scary when people start utilizing it.

 

[theyellowflash26]

It was pretty wack but really it wasn't anything broken, like Luigis down throw or Rosalinas Up air

you tryna tell me rosas up air killin at 37 isnt broke? you outta yo mind.

 

[Antunee]

Just checking, smashwiki has an additional buff for not listed here. Apparently his PSI magnet does an additional 1% damage since the patch.

8%-->9%

No, it still does 8%. Just tested it in training.

 

[kesterstudios]

im glad they gave marth less landing lag on his aerials, but its still not enough. he needs 1 or 2 combo throws and a few other buffs

 

[theyellowflash26]

Just checking, smashwiki has an additional buff for not listed here. Apparently his PSI magnet does an additional 1% damage since the patch.

8%-->9%

I havent seen that at all. Its doin 8 for me.

 

[tsuchinoko]

No, it still does 8%. Just tested it in training.

Strange. That was the only change I've seen there all morning.

They still don't have anything for

 

[Schiffe]

Strange. That was the only change I've seen there all morning.

They still don't have anything for

They probably meant FAir sourspot going from 8% to 9%

 

[Katakiri]

Does this mean meta knight's sword trails are shorter than than they were in previous versions or did the sword trails remain the same size as previous versions and the hitbox now matches them?

The sword trails are smaller.

 

[GeorgeTHPS]

Mii Gunner's Neutral Special 3 got nerfed. It is now incredibly easy to destroy the grenade by simply attacking it.

 

[theyellowflash26]

• Arcthunder? damage increased 11% → 12.7%
• Thoron? damage increased 5% → 5.8%

For Robin....arcthunder didnt get a damage increase. it does 10 still. and thoron does 10 for normal and 18 for overcharged(holding the b button). so idk what this is.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Mii Gunner's Neutral Special 3 got nerfed. It is now incredibly easy to destroy the grenade by simply attacking it.

Hmm, how do you figure? I can definitely see this grenade getting a larger hurtbox if they wanted to change it. However, it seems equally reasonable to hit out of the air in pre and post-patch after a minute or two of tests.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

The dat dump says Sheik's Fair got a KBG increase. Is it just to compensate for the lesser damage or does it actually lead to earlier kills/less combos?

 

[CrazyG]

http://makeagif.com/i/2KUwBh

 

[A_Kae]

The dat dump says Sheik's Fair got a KBG increase. Is it just to compensate for the lesser damage or does it actually lead to earlier kills/less combos?

KB values with the strong hitbox:

Version|0%|25%|50%|75%|100%|125%|150%|175%|200%
1.0.8|66.299|83.569|100.839|118.109|135.378|152.648|169.918|187.188|204.457
1.1.0|67.164|84.185|101.206|118.227|135.248|152.269|169.291|186.312|203.333

So, KB is almost exactly the same.

 

[Megalopunny3]

you tryna tell me rosas up air killin at 37 isnt broke? you outta yo mind.

No I was saying those were broken and Falcons former rapid jab wasn't

 

[Shaya]

• Arcthunder? damage increased 11% → 12.7%
• Thoron? damage increased 5% → 5.8%

For Robin....arcthunder didnt get a damage increase. it does 10 still. and thoron does 10 for normal and 18 for overcharged(holding the b button). so idk what this is.

I'm guessing they must be custom special damages of the Elthunder 2 and 3?
Do you know what was 11% and 5% before?

 

[SpeedBobster]

Many characters receiving buffs is great and all, but I'm really disappointed they didn't nerf Rosalina and Zero Suit (many more players should use her and realize how broken her UP B can be, especially on stages with a low ceiling).

 

[FUEGO!]

I don't know whether to be happy or sad at the Fox changes. I can still do Jab>jab into some other things, just not as much as before. Trading an infinite that honestly made me feel bad as a player to use for a faster blaster and (sorta) shine spike coming back makes me a little happy.

At least one neat thing i've been doing now is approaching with Shine, it actually is possible now, kinda feel like Mango or something.

 

[GroundZero996]

Many characters receiving buffs is great and all, but I'm really disappointed they didn't nerf Rosalina and Zero Suit (many more players should use her and realize how broken her UP B can be, especially on stages with a low ceiling).

This isn't really the place for your opinions, it's for discovery, but are we really calling for nerfs to ZSS? Rosa at least I understand. Having a Jab that kills is insane, and certain aspects of her design could be toned down, but ZSS is in a perfect place IMO. She takes a lot of skill and prediction to use well. Her UpB is one of the few reliable kill setups she has.

I don't know whether to be happy or sad at the Fox changes. I can still do Jab>jab into some other things, just not as much as before. Trading an infinite that honestly made me feel bad as a player to use for a faster blaster and (sorta) shine spike coming back makes me a little happy.

At least one neat thing i've been doing now is approaching with Shine, it actually is possible now, kinda feel like Mango or something.

Honestly I view this as a parallel buff. An infinite is a terrible thing to lose (purely in terms of strength), but gaining the kinds of tools that define high level play is a major plus, and it's not at though jab jab is completely gone, it's just not a super braindead setup anymore.

 

[Tom Smith]

I think dunk hunts nair is faster

 

[Kangaexe]

Question. What do the stars in the other collum mean?
Also DKWill has been grinding new DK. Lots of combos. Plus Cargo > Uthrow > Uair kills high tiers bellow 100%


Go over to DKWill's stream (think its twitch.tv/DKWill) and donate to get him to paragon to show that DK isnt just combo food!!

 

[Masonomace]

As for Shulk's Back Slash, I didn't check the exact specifics of why the frames ended up how they are, but essentially the animation when he jumps into the air plays faster (hence the start-up reduction), but he still has about the same amount of airtime and landing lag as he did before, so the total frames didn't really change. I can double check the specifics when I get to counting Shulk's frame data.

Which reminds me, has anyone confirmed whether or not Shulk got any damage changes? 'Cause I'd really like to avoid spending 5 hours checking Shulk's frame advantage on block for every single one of his arts again...if he got no damage changes that should all be the same.

The damage multipliers for the Monado arts Decisive arts & Hyper arts did not change, which is great news because testing damages alone can be a bit of a pain & especially tedious for you checking frame advantage on block. The sad news is that Shield / Decisive Shield did not get a damage buff.Perhaps the damages could of gotten a very minuscule decimal damage increase but that would be nonsense. . . .

And yeah the total frames remained about the same despite that Back Slash's startup was greatly reduced (this is eye-opening when comparing Back Slash to Back Slash Charge since BSC had the exact same startup as pre-patch Back Slash), but the speed rate at which Back Slash starts to begin the falling hitbox phase kind of looks slower.

 

[Pressio]

upB from Samus, Link and down b from ganon breaks shields! Upb from Samus and Link must be executed in the air!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0Qvcc_waKM&index=1&list=LLYwIzFuUuxypn8g305mecOQ

if its already known then i am sorry to be posting this.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

I'm guessing they must be custom special damages of the Elthunder 2 and 3?
Do you know what was 11% and 5% before?

I can tell you that Speed Thunder's Elthunder was 5% back when I used it a few patches ago. Speed Thoron did 10% (and had no option for holding it to add on more hits/damage). That's not a direct match for your 11 percent, but... it's close?

Hopefully this is helpful/on-topic. I'm sleepy, may not be reading this thread right. I apologize if I'm addressing the wrong thing.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

OK, so the way I see it G&W didn't actually have the landing lag of his bair reduced - when you whiff the move the lag is still the same. But it seems to have that "synching effect" of Bowser Jr's dair now where the hitlag and the landing lag overlap and allow the character to follow-up faster. Still dunno the amount of frames, G&W people don't really seem too keen on contributing in here x_x