Tournament Mode [1.1.0] Community Patch Notes

[FirstaLasto]

Despite dealing 2% less damage, Kirby's Fthrow actually KOs 24% earlier than before (from 238% to 214%). I don't know if the scaling was increased or if it's the result of a new angle.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Can someone confirm these? Dthrow had reduced endlag last patch so you might just be making a mistake but if it was reduced again that could be pretty huge, and bair landing lag reduction would be rather nice as well.

I know. I was the one that found his Dthrow reduction last patch. So it was a shock to see the same thing happen again. It's not as large as last patch's 8 frame reduction. Think more like 2. Same for Bair landing lag.

Were there any changes to his Jab? Some posters on the Kirby boards feel like his jab 2 connects to the Rapid Jab faster. The data dump has changes to his jab as well.

Transition from Jab 2 to multijab is definitely faster by a small margin. Good catch. This is not the same as an endlag change. It's most similar to the change with Diddy's Jab 3 to multijab transition being sped up last patch. I did look at jab transitions during my tests, but I guess I missed this one.

I have to deconfirm Toon Link's Nair landing lag reduction. There is no change. There was also somebody claiming a reduction on Shiek's Fair landing lag, but I guess that was removed since yesterday. That move also has no change in landing lag.

 

[TailLover]

I know. I was the one that found his Dthrow reduction last patch. So it was a shock to see the same thing happen again. It's not as large as last patch's 8 frame reduction. Think more like 2. Same for Bair landing lag.

Shaving off another 2 frames, although sounds extremely minor, might make some 50/50's much easier to get and even make it combo easier.

although nice to hear for bair, that unfortunately does not have the same implications that dthrow has and is just nice, meh. Cmon Nintendo make Charizard's bair spammable D:

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Also, Mii Swordsman's Up B 2 takes him much further when traveling directly upward. The added distance does not apply to moving perfectly horizontally, and not as much distance was added to diagonally upward angles.

I've been looking at Link's Up B, and there seems to be no change in height gained like people claim. Nothing is different about the grounded version either. Also, his dash and pivot grabs are unchanged.

 

[Schiffe]

@ Schiffe I have a question on Marth's aerial DB while you're in this thread might as well ask someone who can find out. Does the extended timing for DB1, 2, and 3 also apply to aerial DB1? Aerial DB1 is pretty different and you would think they wouldn't do this (since using DB1 for recovery [which barely helps] would become a lot riskier with DB2 up suicides). Does it have the same input frames as DB1 ground or is it the old input frames still?

I am legitimately confused about what a "DB" is. Could you tell me the meaning of the abbreviation?

 

[FullMoon]

I am legitimately confused about what a "DB" is. Could you tell me the meaning of the abbreviation?

Dancing Blade, aka side-b.

 

[DarthGogeta]

Not sure if it's placebo or not but it seems like Link's jab combo is faster. I don't have any way to confirm it, though.

 

[Agosta44]

Liking the buffs to DK, but I wish they would reduce some of the landing lag on his moves. Also the dead spots on his tilts/smash but HEY THAT'S NEVER GONNA HAPPEN.

 

[Schiffe]

Dancing Blade, aka side-b.

I see.


@ Vipermoon Looking at Dantarion's Data, doesn't seem like Aerial DB1 was touched.

I can safely assume that any changes to Aerial DB1 would have been highlighted under "codename" SpecialAirS1

(This name appears in SSBB as Marth's Aerial DB1. Seeing how similar SSB4 and SSBB are data-wise, I highly doubt they would rename/modify any of the attacks data name.)

 

[Vipermoon]

I completely forgot about the stalling. Looking at SH with and without DB, I'm seeing less air time with DB as well. Strange. Marth seems to land about 2 frames earlier with DB. That would account for bair not hitting. In that case, I'm probably wrong about aerial DB1 getting more ending lag.

Actually you're probably right. NOW I HAVE NO IDEA about all of this After thinking, I now clearly remember me checking aerial DB1 last balance patch because I really wanted it to have less lag (to improve recovery). So what I did was take out the 3DS and try frame perfect SH DB1 to Bair and in both versions I was able to get out either frame 7 or 8 of Bair (you can input DB1 later in your short hop and get all hit frames of Bair). I don't know how I wasn't able to remember this before. Someone needs to try this in another patch since we can't use my word as fact.

Right now doing it frame perfect you get frames 4, 5, and 6 (it really depends I guess). So either the DB1 air stalling changed or it's laggier.

DB1 has frame speed multipliers on the first couple of frames. F27 is the 27th animation frame. 30 'real' frames have gone by when the 27th animation frame is reached. So with an increase of 5 frames on the input window, it's actually 35.

That's right you got me. So it hits on frame 10 without modifiers? Ouch. I'm an idiot. No modifier makes it frame 4 like Brawl. So yeah in this case it sounds like a laggier move idk anymore

 

[LordWilliam1234]

Not sure if it's placebo or not but it seems like Link's jab combo is faster. I don't have any way to confirm it, though.

Link's jab combo was not changed, unfortunately.

 

[Vipermoon]

I see.


@ Vipermoon Looking at Dantarion's Data, doesn't seem like Aerial DB1 was touched.

I can safely assume that any changes to Aerial DB1 would have been highlighted under "codename" SpecialAirS1

(This name appears in SSBB as Marth's Aerial DB1. Seeing how similar SSB4 and SSBB are data-wise, I highly doubt they would rename/modify any of the attacks data name.)

Hmm okay I definitely believe that. It's still slightly possible that they did increase IASA but good to know thank you. Sorry for the abbreviation lol.

 

[A_Kae]

I see.


@ Vipermoon Looking at Dantarion's Data, doesn't seem like Aerial DB1 was touched.

I can safely assume that any changes to Aerial DB1 would have been highlighted under "codename" SpecialAirS1

(This name appears in SSBB as Marth's Aerial DB1. Seeing how similar SSB4 and SSBB are data-wise, I highly doubt they would rename/modify any of the attacks data name.)

SpecialAirS1 doesn't seem to have much data with it at all. I'd guess that all it does is call the data from SpecialS1, but with a different animation. I don't have a lot of experience with brawl/smash 4 coding, but that seems to be what it is. Maybe I'm wrong, though.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

@ Shaya Another clarification. Luigi's Dtilt always had an angle of 74. Never a Sakurai angle.

Also, Shulk's Dash attack has the same endlag. The proof you provide is a link to proof for Fox's Neutral B instead.

 

[Luig]

Yes, the angle of luigi's dtilt has been changed to under 45 degrees. Not sure where people are getting 74.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Actually, Luigi's Dtilt is now a sakurai angle. He can jab lock with it. So the real change is 74 degrees to 361. Not the other way around.

 

[John12346]

Bleh, I'm holding out for Sheik frame data changes here, but I'm pretty sure it's wishful thinking that anything really changed...

 

[Luig]

Ohh, that's why it seems so low. It locks and can trip, and is much better at edgeguarding.

 

[Schiffe]

Hmm okay I definitely believe that. It's still slightly possible that they did increase IASA but good to know thank you. Sorry for the abbreviation lol.

No problem. And it is indeed possible that IASA was touched somehow..

Actually, Luigi's Dtilt is now a sakurai angle. He can jab lock with it. So the real change is 74 degrees to 361. Not the other way around.

Can confirm.

1.0.8

1.1.0

0x169 = 361

 

[Teeb147]

Lucas's landing lag on attacks seems much better now!

Really happy with Lucina better landing now too :D

 

[Johnny Heart Gold]

Actually, Luigi's Dtilt is now a sakurai angle. He can jab lock with it. So the real change is 74 degrees to 361. Not the other way around.

What the f**** is a Sakurai angle!!!

 

[Luig]

Smashwiki

Spoiler

The Sakurai angle (sometimes displayed as * or in moveset lists) is a special knockback angle that many attacks use. While it reads in the game data as an angle of 361 degrees, the actual resulting angle is dependent on whether the victim is on the ground or in the air, as well as the strength of the knockback.

The exact characteristics of the Sakurai angle have changed slightly in every game, but all share the same basic idea: at low knockback the opponent is not lifted off the ground, while at high knockback they are launched diagonally; the purpose seems to be to allow grounded battles between fresh opponents without allowing attacks to be deadly semi-spikes at KO percentages. The amount of knockback dealt determines the launch angle of grounded opponents; aerial opponents use the same angle regardless of knockback, which is typically very slightly higher than any grounded version. Starting in Melee, if the knockback is between the low-knockback value and high-knockback value, the resulting angle will be linearly scaled between its two extremes.

The Sakurai angle does not correctly tilt the impending angle indicator; it will remain at a flat angle.

While a low-knockback grounded hit of a Sakurai angle-attack is technically a semi-spike, it can never be used as one due to edge slipping.

The Sakurai angle exists in Super Smash Bros. 4 with no major changes; its exact numerical values have yet to be determined.

 

[A_Kae]

What the f**** is a Sakurai angle!!!

It's a special angle (coded as 361°) that changes depending on the knockback done. Low knockback values give a 0° angle, high knockback gives a 37° angle. There's a range of knockback where the angle scales between 0 and 37. If the attack hits an aerial target, the angle is always 45°.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Sakurai_angle

 

[Sonnance]

Guys, please tell me I'm wrong about this. Or that I made a mistake. I was practicing with Robin's new down throw in training mode, against a Lucina set to 120%, and I tried down throw to levin uair. It connected and killed, but the combo counter said it was true.

Did they seriously give Robin a Hoo Ha? Like, even as a Robin main, I can't even be happy about this.

 

[_Sylvan_]

Bleh, I'm holding out for Sheik frame data changes here, but I'm pretty sure it's wishful thinking that anything really changed...

Sheik has a 0.5% decrease on both the sweet and sour spot of her Fair and the sour spot is now easier to hit while the sweet spot is harder. Also, the landing lag on her Fair got increased by 1 or 2 frames. Mostly irrelevant, I still believe she is #1.

 

[Schiffe]

Lucas's landing lag on attacks seems much better now!

Lucas has less landing lag? Where? The only attack I noticed had any less lag (which isn't actually landing lag in this case) was PK Thunder when Lucas does that odd 360 turnaround to end the move.

But I didn't confirm this via data. If placebo struck me, it went all in..

 

[WispBae]

Where does it confirm that Doggy's F-Smash has been changed? Is it all raw data, or are there actual hitboxes? Looking at the notes, it's seems his F-Smash is shaped more like a cone now, rather than a line, if I'm interpreting this correctly.

 

[Eureka]

Guys, please tell me I'm wrong about this. Or that I made a mistake. I was practicing with Robin's new down throw in training mode, against a Lucina set to 120%, and I tried down throw to levin uair. It connected and killed, but the combo counter said it was true.

Did they seriously give Robin a Hoo Ha? Like, even as a Robin main, I can't even be happy about this.

So you're not happy that your main was given an important aspect he lacked and a potential kill confirm? Well, that's a new one.

 

[Moydow]

Guys, please tell me I'm wrong about this. Or that I made a mistake. I was practicing with Robin's new down throw in training mode, against a Lucina set to 120%, and I tried down throw to levin uair. It connected and killed, but the combo counter said it was true.

Did they seriously give Robin a Hoo Ha? Like, even as a Robin main, I can't even be happy about this.

It's true on loads of characters, several people have noticed this

 

[WIM]

Did Marth move forward when you spammed Up-Tilts in the last patch? Because he scoots forward when you do them now and it's very noticeable. It's like his Down-Tilt in Brawl.

 

[The21stSmasher]

*sigh* If only Dr. Mario's U-Smash wasn't the only thing they buffed...

 

[A_Kae]

Did Marth move forward when you spammed Up-Tilts in the last patch? Because he scoots forward when you do them now and it's very noticeable. It's like his Down-Tilt in Brawl.

Yeah. I think he moves more forwards now, though.

 

[The_SuperiorTaste]

I have a 3ds with 1.0.9 and a wii u with 1.1.0 so I can confirm that Bowser Jr.'s Clown cannon (neutral B) does more damage: Uncharged sweetspot increased from 7% to 8.5%; Uncharged sourspot increased from 4.4% to 5.9%; Fully charged Sweetspot increased from 18% to 20%; Fully charged sourspot increased from 12.6% to 14%.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Guys, please tell me I'm wrong about this. Or that I made a mistake. I was practicing with Robin's new down throw in training mode, against a Lucina set to 120%, and I tried down throw to levin uair. It connected and killed, but the combo counter said it was true.

Did they seriously give Robin a Hoo Ha? Like, even as a Robin main, I can't even be happy about this.

Robin acts much faster out of Dthrow now, so yes, I assume it's a much more valuable move to him. I'm more afraid of how much faster he can act out of arcthunder. That's probably the single best buff in this whole patch.

Real talk, this looks like the largest patch in this game's history. Especially since none of it is bugfixes (aside from some unconfirmed reports of certain glitches with pac man being removed). And since this came out so quickly after the last one, I think we can expect to get both more and more radical updates for Smash 4 in the future when it comes to gameplay balancing.

 

[Sonnance]

So you're not happy that your main was given an important aspect he lacked and a potential kill confirm? Well, that's a new one.

Well, I'm always happy to see Robin get buffed. I just always thought that with the Levin Sword's power, a Hoo Hah would be a little broken for him.

It's true on loads of characters, several people have noticed this

Oh, really? I didn't know that.

 

[Johnny Heart Gold]

It's a special angle (coded as 361°) that changes depending on the knockback done. Low knockback values give a 0° angle, high knockback gives a 37° angle. There's a range of knockback where the angle scales between 0 and 37. If the attack hits an aerial target, the angle is always 45°.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Sakurai_angle

Thanks a lot man, I don't know why people come up with those names, I mean stuff like KBN and those I get it you just short the name but call something sakurais angle, whats next ?? call pivoting sakurai's gym rutine at mornings?

 

[Blackrider213]

LordWilliam, can you give a possible explanation for why people were saying Link's grab and Up B were changed? In other words, can you resolve the contradiction between your findings and the original reddit post regarding Link's changes?

 

[Megalopunny3]

Can someone confirm Falcon back air having reduced KB or KBG? It could be placebo but I read earlier KB is directly related to damage..? Or is that false?

 

[LordWilliam1234]

LordWilliam, can you give a possible explanation for why people were saying Link's grab and Up B were changed? In other words, can you resolve the contradiction between your findings and the original reddit post regarding Link's changes?

They might have been changed, just not to their frame counts. Otherwise it was just placebo on their part.

 

[Megalopunny3]

And is anyone else scared that Luigi now has a better gimp in DTilt? It sends pretty horizontally so at high % could rek some recoveries