Tournament Mode [1.1.0] Community Patch Notes

[Sonnance]

Robin acts much faster out of Dthrow now, so yes, I assume it's a much more valuable move to him. I'm more afraid of how much faster he can act out of arcthunder. That's probably the single best buff in this whole patch.

I definitely noticed that one as well, and I really love it. I'm excited to see what all we can do with that.

A few other things I've noticed: I was able to combo both hits of his nair by being right up against the opponent, my back to them, was he always able to do that, or is this new? Also, I've heard that his pummel is faster now, and that certainly seems true. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[Schiffe]

Can someone confirm Falcon back air having reduced KB or KBG? It could be placebo but I read earlier KB is directly related to damage..? Or is that false?

Smash 4 has a wonky way of calculating the Knockback of an attack. I believe Falcon's BAir does 13% now (used to do 14%).

By reducing the percentage an attack deals, you technically lower it's KB as well.

 

[Eureka]

Thanks a lot man, I don't know why people come up with those names, I mean stuff like KBN and those I get it you just short the name but call something sakurais angle, whats next ?? call pivoting sakurai's gym rutine at mornings?

The name comes from the angle's increased chance to cause tripping, which is associated with Sakurai. Also "Sakurai Angle" is a lot easier to say then "361 degree special knockback angle".

 

[Teeb147]

Lucas has less landing lag? Where? The only attack I noticed had any less lag (which isn't actually landing lag in this case) was PK Thunder when Lucas does that odd 360 turnaround to end the move.

But I didn't confirm this via data. If placebo struck me, it went all in..

Well his fair landing lag really seems reduced, at the least, but that's going on just my perception. If someone could verify the actual feames that'd be nice.

 

[Megalopunny3]

Smash 4 has a wonky way of calculating the Knockback of an attack. I believe Falcon's BAir does 13% now (used to do 14%).

By reducing the percentage an attack deals, you technically lower it's KB as well.

Okay thanks but is that confirmed or technically speaking it is?

 

[Luig]

@ Megalopunny3 , I'm still in awe that they overall buffed Luigi.

 

[Megalopunny3]

@ Megalopunny3 , I'm still in awe that they overall buffed Luigi.

Oh my god yes!! 1. Why nerf Falcon and not touch Rosa Sheik? 2. Why buff Luigi?!? I know he's considered not as good in Japan but he's so Braindead and down throw up B will be even easier to land now and he doesn't need another grab set up in down tilt his fireball was enough

 

[Schiffe]

Okay thanks but is that confirmed or technically speaking it is?

The damage reduce change is confirmed. Therefore, the reduced KB technically is confirmed as well.

Well his fair landing lag really seems reduced, at the least, but that's going on just my perception. If someone could verify the actual feames that'd be nice.

Actually, that isn't impossible, but I doubt. Looked at the data but there is no IASA... so I am unsure

 

[BSP]

Can someone confirm Falcon back air having reduced KB or KBG? It could be placebo but I read earlier KB is directly related to damage..? Or is that false?

KB is directly linked to damage, yes. In smash 4, 1-2% difference can make quite a difference in KO potential, even if BKB/KBG are the same. Compare Pac-Man's tumbling default hydrant to his tumbling On-Fire Hydrant. Their numbers are the same except On-Fire does 2% more, and it KOs about 20% earlier.

 

[RedBeefBaron]

@ Megalopunny3 , I'm still in awe that they overall buffed Luigi.

He seems more honest now. Has various legit setups to compensate for less damage off d throw and a projectile that is fair now. He may be as good as he was but he's not completely brain dead anymore.

It's also unclear whether his d tilt is now better than the old one which was actually great. It won't setup fjp at high percent since the trip won't ever happen and it won't stage spike at high percent if its a sakurai angle.

D throw to up b may be crazy though.

 

[A_Kae]

And the formula for knockback is this:

Knockback = ((((((t+d)/10+(((t+d)*d)/20))*(200/(w+100))*1.4)+18)*(g/100))+b)

t = Target Damage
d = Attack Damage
w = Target Weight
g = Knockback Growth
b = Base Knockback

 

[Specs808]

*sigh* If only Dr. Mario's U-Smash wasn't the only thing they buffed...

I had high hopes for this patch as well. I have been whining about his up smash for a while now so I'm glad they're making an attempt to make it better.

It baffles me that they put in so much effort into fine tuning the fire emblem cast but seem to ignore Doc's shortcomings.

Let's cross our fingers for the next patch.

 

[Schiffe]

Oh, turns out that these two trophies have something changed, but I can't figure it out at all.. Going to have to seek further with DDS-JPEG

 

[SoulOfSmash]

What about Roy?

 

[PushDustIn]

This is completely balance un-related, but it's a game change (I suppose)

Something has been done to our lovely Wonder PInk trophy.

Can't confirm 100% what, but it may be texture changes

I believe that change was made a long time ago.

 

[Megalopunny3]

He seems more honest now. Has various legit setups to compensate for less damage off d throw and a projectile that is fair now. He may be as good as he was but he's not completely brain dead anymore.

It's also unclear whether his d tilt is now better than the old one which was actually great. It won't setup fjp at high percent since the trip won't ever happen and it won't stage spike at high percent if its a sakurai angle.

D throw to up b may be crazy though.

If the knockback formula is right then Luigis fair gets less knockback from 9 damage to 8 so it will combo better which leads to more damage from down throw.. ConCon posted a vine Luigi 101% combo on sheik virtually no getting out of it..really Sakurai

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I definitely noticed that one as well, and I really love it. I'm excited to see what all we can do with that.

A few other things I've noticed: I was able to combo both hits of his nair by being right up against the opponent, my back to them, was he always able to do that, or is this new? Also, I've heard that his pummel is faster now, and that certainly seems true. Can anyone confirm this?

His pummel is unchanged. As for his Nair, I'm pretty sure you could hit with the back end of any hitbox if you really tried in this game. His Nair doesn't seem designed for that. And I can't get it post or pre-patch. I doubt there's any change to the move to make it more possible.

LordWilliam, can you give a possible explanation for why people were saying Link's grab and Up B were changed? In other words, can you resolve the contradiction between your findings and the original reddit post regarding Link's changes?

Did this Reddit post provide proof of Link's changes? I personally checked and there's no difference with Link's Up B, or his dash and pivot grabs in this patch. And do be careful of Reddit. A few patches back the words "I found this on Reddit" was synonymous with "I really REALLY want to post something incorrect and untested". What they did was have a list that users could add to freely without providing proof and having no knowledge of testing standards. For instance, people that test KO percents between 3DS and Wii U FD. They don't have the same stage boundaries. Or, people that didn't test in training mode and are reporting damage differences that are in fact being skewed by stale move negation.

 

[Schiffe]

I believe that change was made a long time ago.

Oh. Indeed. It bothered me because I do not see it in patch 1.0.8 (it's not in the figures folder)

The reason why it's absent remains unclear.. but I thought it was new from this patch

 

[Megalopunny3]

If anyone has time can they calculate BKB and KBG for Falcons new Bair? It'd be nice to know how much it got nerfed KB wise

 

[Luig]

Luigi's new dtilt is better. It's great for edgeguarding and has less endlag, while also being more likely to trip and can lock. Fair does less damage and less knockback, and both aerial fjp and grounded have more kbg. fireball has 3 more frames of endlag, and luigi's up throw kills earlier now.

 

[Eureka]

He seems more honest now. Has various legit setups to compensate for less damage off d throw and a projectile that is fair now. He may be as good as he was but he's not completely brain dead anymore.

It's also unclear whether his d tilt is now better than the old one which was actually great. It won't setup fjp at high percent since the trip won't ever happen and it won't stage spike at high percent if its a sakurai angle.

D throw to up b may be crazy though.

Down throw hasn't had it's damage decreased. In fact the only nerfs were slightly more lag on fireballs and 1% less of fair, but that's possibly been made up for by buffed up b, up throw, and down tilt. He's still as brain dead.

 

[Luig]

You guys do realize at top level play you can't play him brain dead, the only person you can really play brain dead is StaticManny's Sonic and Trippager.

 

[Pyr]

If the knockback formula is right then Luigis fair gets less knockback from 9 damage to 8 so it will combo better which leads to more damage from down throw.. ConCon posted a vine Luigi 101% combo on sheik virtually no getting out of it..really Sakurai

Congrats. Concon showed a combo that is only possible without any form of DI from Falcon.

And Fair combos basically the same. We maybe get an extra hit off of fair a little later. It's really not a huge deal.

 

[Luig]

Learn 2 DI

 

[Vipermoon]

Congrats. Concon showed a combo that is only possible without any form of DI from Falcon.

And Fair combos basically the same. We maybe get an extra hit off of fair a little later. It's really not a huge deal.

Thank you. It annoyed me to read those combo better posts. Same thing happened when Falcon's Uair was nerfed. People calling it a buff when clearly many of his kills were Uair back when it did 13%.

 

[B.A.M.]

@ Shaya working on the patch vid as we speak. but oh my goodness freakin Fox.

 

[Luig]

I personally think Luigi isn't as good as people make him out to be, definitely top 8 but not top 5. Too many weaknesses like recovery.

 

[Blobface]

Pit's Fsmash does 15% uncharged and yet it breaks newly regenerated shields. Smash 4 shields are just weird.

For additional confirmation, you can compare Wizkick's Shield damage with Reverse Warlock Punches. RWP is 38 damage thus 38 shield damage. Aerial Wizkick is clearly the same amount, 15% damage + 8% Quake + 15 bonus shield damage is 38.

 

[B.A.M.]

Thank you. It annoyed me to read those combo better posts. Same thing happened when Falcon's Uair was nerfed. People calling it a buff when clearly many of his kills were Uair back when it did 13%.

some argue otherwise because he gets a greater chance at damage racking as he will get double uair for a longer period. I personally used bair, side b on landings or as a whiff punish, and fsmash so I viewed it as a buff. It also makes the tight window in which meaty uair > knee a tad bigger as well as you can do uair ff> knee for a longer duration of time.

 

[Luig]

I'm waiting for them to fix battlefields jank edges.

 

[Megalopunny3]

Congrats. Concon showed a combo that is only possible without any form of DI from Falcon.

And Fair combos basically the same. We maybe get an extra hit off of fair a little later. It's really not a huge deal.

I know how to DI just its dumb giving him any kinds of Buffs to Luigi when he was already top 5 in the game.

 

[B.A.M.]

I personally think Luigi isn't as good as people make him out to be, definitely top 8 but not top 5. Too many weaknesses like recovery.

id say that and his traction are pretty much his only solid weaknesses. I wouldnt state he has too many weakness at all lol. Even recovery is something that can be improved if u can mash properly. Most luigis are just bad at it. Well pretty much every luigi is sans con con to be perfectly honest and larry when it doesnt hurt his hands.

 

[Luig]

I can do jumpless cyclone, but you do have to admit his recovery is easily gimped. (For some reason it gets destroyed by Link's dair)

 

[Ikes]

it's not like we were killing with fair anyways, Luigi clearly got an overall buff.

Also, how exactly doesn an extra 3 frames of endlag on fireball somehow cause it to not guarantee a grab? it already had 41 frames so 44 is really not much different in the end, he act out at pretty much the same moment.

 

[Megalopunny3]

Thank you. It annoyed me to read those combo better posts. Same thing happened when Falcon's Uair was nerfed. People calling it a buff when clearly many of his kills were Uair back when it did 13%.

People are calling it a buff because it does combo better, it was just annoying to lose a decent kill option. Now it's the same with Bair but I believe this doesn't have any buffs to it, so this blows

 

[Luig]

The only difference is that you can only lock characters once. 3 frames isn't that much.

I'm still trying to figure out why they made uthrow stronger.

 

[Pyr]

some argue otherwise because he gets a greater chance at damage racking as he will get double uair for a longer period. I personally used bair, side b on landings or as a whiff punish, and fsmash so I viewed it as a buff. It also makes the tight window in which meaty uair > knee a tad bigger as well as you can do uair ff> knee for a longer duration of time.

He also loses some damage on Fair footsies. Luigi isn't just a grab bot.

I know how to DI just its dumb giving him any kinds of Buffs to Luigi when he was already top 5 in the game.

If you're getting combo'd like ConCon did to the Falcon in his video, you're not DI'ing right. Did you know that you can DI a way that makes a direct second fair (without RARing it) impossible?

And they are, really, net even. D-Tilt is worst overall, despite the tripping and speed increase. Up-B was buffed, but how often do you get that? And Up-Throw getting buffed so you kill at 160 instead of 170. Big deal. Fair pokes doing less and the slightly slower fireball are BIG for dealing with not being able to get throws.

But this is getting OT. Message me if you want to talk about Luigi more.

 

[Krysco]

Earlier it was mentioned that some of the PAC-MAN glitches were removed although I don't recall this particular one being mentioned.

I only tested it a few times but it seems PAC-MAN is no longer able to scar through Halberd or Omega Mushroom Kingdom U.

 

[Megalopunny3]

He also loses some damage on Fair footsies. Luigi isn't just a grab bot.



If you're getting combo'd like ConCon did to the Falcon in his video, you're not DI'ing right. Did you know that you can DI a way that makes a direct second fair (without RARing it) impossible?

And they are, really, net even. D-Tilt is worst overall, despite the tripping and speed increase. Up-B was buffed, but how often do you get that? And Up-Throw getting buffed so you kill at 160 instead of 170. Big deal. Fair pokes doing less and the slightly slower fireball are BIG for dealing with not being able to get throws.

But this is getting OT. Message me if you want to talk about Luigi more.

I admit he's not buffed that much but the fact he got one is just stupid. I am happy about the FireBall but how much will that make out I don't know

 

[Johnny Heart Gold]

I'm waiting for them to fix battlefields jank edges.

Does that happens on the 3ds?