Tournament Mode [1.1.0] Community Patch Notes

[Megalopunny3]

Since the damage on Captains Back Air was reduced? Does this mean that knockback was decreased too? That really sucks for a falcon main..as it is a reliable and best kill move.

 

[HFlash]

Rejoice Marth Mains! He now ONLY HAS half the landing lag compared to brawl! Cheers!

 

[Jehtt]

Could somebody with both versions of the game please test if the leaves of Mega Man's leaf shield spin faster than before?

 

[horseduty]

Despite what everyone is saying I did notice one small change for Mario.

Dash attack no longer hits under the ledge, therefore it doesn't stage spike like it used to. Knew this would get patched out at some point.

 

[Vipermoon]

Hi there, I own the reddit thread:

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3f8hvn/the_v110_patch_changelist/

Most of the stuff here I've extracted from the dantarion files so I think it's pretty reliable, if there are changes there that have not been noted yet feel free to test and include them.

On a side note, my reddit inbox is blown up now.

Each hit of Dancing Blade allows you 5 more frames to input the next hit. Overall buff for sure (so you don't buffer DS, SB, or counter by accident).

The only possible nerf in here is if aerial DB1 received this change. If so it'll be easier to SD off-stage when using DB as a recovery. You might DB2 up instead of up B.

But anyway, the first paragraph is all you need for your thread.

 

[A_Kae]

Each hit of Dancing Blade allows you 5 more frames to input the next hit. Overall buff for sure (so you don't buffer DS, SB, or counter by accident).

The only possible nerf in here is if aerial DB1 received this change. If so it'll be easier to SD off-stage when using DB as a recovery. You might DB2 up instead of up B.

But anyway, the first paragraph is all you need for your thread.

I posted this in the Marth thread, but since you brought it up, I'll say it here.

Aerial DB1 as far as I can tell has +5 input window things as well. Might also have more ending lag.

 

[N3f4str10]

Hey, I thing I found something else. The Uair of fox might have less knockback, like the Up Smash... I just got hit at 100% and didn't kill me. Can someone corroborate this?

 

[Luig]

Fox uair usually doesn't ko until 120%. Usmash doesn't have less kb either I believe.

 

[TheWozny]

What really needs nerfing at this point though? The only things I can think of off the top of my head that would be worth considering are Sheik's needles, Rosa's uair, Pika's HSB custom, Ness' Backthrow, and Luigi's downthrow. That's about it, 5 moves in the whole game.

Moves like Sonic/Mario's Fsmash kill way too early in my honest opinion.. a move shouldn't be thhat safe and that strong on characters that have no problem comboing up percents.

 

[UberMadman]

OP still doesn't have Mii changes, which saddens me.

These may not be entirely accurate, but to give you the general idea, here's what the subreddit patch notes say:

MII BRAWLER

Fair 3% -> 4%

Uair 9% -> 8%

Ultimate Uppercut: larger hitboxes, KBG 82 -> 100. Max charge: 22%/17% -> 23%/16%, KBG 79 -> 80

Burning Dropkick BKB 76/69 -> 85/78

MII GUNNER

Laser Blaze 3.6% -> 4%

Lunar Launch hitbox angle 70 -> 55

Uair final hit 3% -> 4%

MII SWORDFIGHTER

Usmash hitbox timings changed

Blurring Blade: Repeated hits WKB 10 -> 22, final hitbox size 4.5 units -> 5.1 units

Grounded Slash Launcher attack lasts for 2 more frames

Chakram has less endlag

Light Shuriken 1.2%/3.2%/4.8%/8.8% -> 2%/4%/6.6%/10%

The page doesn't specify which Mii size it is and I'm not personally sure of all of it, but I can definitely confirm a lot of these changes. Though not specified here, Mii Gunner's Uair in particular got come kind of knickknack change as well, as it now kill Bowser A WHOPPING 26% EARLIER! I also showed off a video of the new Chakram infinite.
____________________________________________________________________________

Moves like Sonic/Mario's Fsmash kill way too early in my honest opinion.. a move shouldn't be thhat safe and that strong on characters that have no problem comboing up percents.

Then your complaint makes even less sense because Sonic's F-Smash was nerfed.

 

[TheWozny]

Has MewTwo's Ftilt been buffed knockback wise? I almost got a KO with it from across stage, even with the red lightning effect. I've never had that happen before.

Edit: Double post

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Hey, I thing I found something else. The Uair of fox might have less knockback, like the Up Smash... I just got hit at 100% and didn't kill me. Can someone corroborate this?

That's nothing unusual. Both moves have the same knockback as they had before the update.

 

[Doctor Luigi]

why the DK cargo up throw change isn't listed here?

 

[N3f4str10]

That's nothing unusual. Both moves have the same knockback as they had before the update.

Thanks

 

[Vipermoon]

Rejoice Marth Mains! He now ONLY HAS half the landing lag compared to brawl! Cheers!

But you have to look further.

Nair, Fair, Uair, Bair, and Dair
Melee: 15, 15, 15, 24 iirc, 32. Dolphin Slash 34
Brawl: 8, 8, 8, 22 iirc, and 32. Dolphin Slash 34
Smash 4 1.0.0: 15, 18, 16, 19, 28. Dolphin Slash 23
Smash 4 1.1.0: 12, 16, 14, 17, 24. Dolphin Slash 20

In previous games we had Bair, Dair, and DS (and RCO lag in Brawl) as the equalizer. With those in the picture and the fact that most characters have nerfed landing lag from Brawl, 1.1.0 Marth's landing lag is actually fair and pretty perfect. He doesn't deserve less landing lag than this.

Now, his autocancel is another story. Marth's AC windows (I call them arrow slits) in this game are CRAP and need slight adjustments regardless of whatever other buffs he gets.

I posted this in the Marth thread, but since you brought it up, I'll say it here.

Unfortunately I don't have my 3DS 1.0.3 to test this. It's as simple as doing SH DB1 to Bair. I just tried it and the Bair hitbox doesn't come out. Marth lands on frame 6. So was it always like that? Someone needs to test whether Bair's hitbox came out after SH DB1 in an early version of the game. I have no idea why this would be nerfed so I don't know if I believe it. No one even used SH DB1 let alone the crappy boost in recovery it gave.

Moves like Sonic/Mario's Fsmash kill way too early in my honest opinion.. a move shouldn't be thhat safe and that strong on characters that have no problem comboing up percents.

You're right to complain about that. They have/had too much kill power for their shield safety. On top of that, Mario's sour spot is too powerful and Sonic's has too much range (doesn't match his fist at all). Now on Sonic the power reduction is pretty noticeable so I'm going to put Sonic's Fsmash is my book of fair but still really good Fsmashes now.

 

[MarkT]

Someone mentioned that Megaman's Down-Smash is faster and it DEFINITELY is! It's a viable move now! You can even toss angled metal blades and confirm into down smash.

 

[Johnny Heart Gold]

Thanks

Dude your Avatar is freaking gross!!

 

[HFlash]

But you have to look further.

Nair, Fair, Uair, Bair, and Dair
Melee: 15, 15, 15, 24 iirc, 32. Dolphin Slash 34
Brawl: 8, 8, 8, 22 iirc, and 32. Dolphin Slash 34
Smash 4 1.0.0: 15, 18, 16, 19, 28. Dolphin Slash 23
Smash 4 1.1.0: 12, 16, 14, 17, 24. Dolphin Slash 20

In previous games we had Bair, Dair, and DS (and RCO lag in Brawl) as the equalizer. With those in the picture and the fact that most characters have nerfed landing lag from Brawl, 1.1.0 Marth's landing lag is actually fair and pretty perfect. He doesn't deserve less landing lag than this.

Now, his autocancel is another story. Marth's AC windows (I call them arrow slits) in this game are CRAP and need slight adjustments regardless of whatever other buffs he gets.



Unfortunately I don't have my 3DS 1.0.3 to test this. It's as simple as doing SH DB1 to Bair. I just tried it and the Bair hitbox doesn't come out. Marth lands on frame 6. So was it always like that? Someone needs to test whether Bair's hitbox came out after SH DB1 in an early version of the game. I have no idea why this would be nerfed so I don't know if I believe it. No one even used SH DB1 let alone the crappy boost in recovery it gave.
.

You're right to complain about that. They have/had too much kill power for their shield safety. On top of that, Mario's sour spot is too powerful and Sonic's has too much range (doesn't match his fist at all). Now on Sonic the power reduction is pretty noticeable so I'm going to put Sonic's Fsmash is my book of fair but still really good Fsmashes now.

Wait, those numbers don't match up with the OP. If it is true, would explain why he feels so smooth compared to WiiU release.

 

[TheWozny]

Someone mentioned that Megaman's Down-Smash is faster and it DEFINITELY is! It's a viable move now! You can even toss angled metal blades and confirm into down smash.

Proof of this?

 

[Vipermoon]

Wait, those numbers don't match up with the OP. If it is true, would explain why he feels so smooth compared to WiiU release.

Fair, Bair, Uair, and Dair are in the OP and match my numbers. Nair reduction was last patch.

 

[RedBeefBaron]

Is the diddy Kong up smash change on Reddit legit? I assume this means the move will link better like before and won't drop after the first or second hit as much? Which would be awesome.

 

[MarkT]

Proof of this?

Sorry... I'm all updated on wii u and ds so i cant compare... And it is possible that the D-Smash was buffed in an earlier patch, but I have around 1500 online games with Megaman under my belt. I'd be shocked if this was placebo.

 

[LordWilliam1234]

Someone mentioned that Megaman's Down-Smash is faster and it DEFINITELY is! It's a viable move now! You can even toss angled metal blades and confirm into down smash.

Megaman's down smash is the same as before. 17 frame start-up, 61 frames of lag, 78 frames total. It was not changed.

 

[FEFIZ]

"Growth increased 54 - 65" can someone explain better this for me? The meaning (in this game) of Growth. Thanks.

 

[MarkT]

Megaman's down smash is the same as before. 17 frame start-up, 61 frames of lag, 78 frames total. It was not changed.

If that's true I'm going to check through all previous patch notes. I know it used to be slower.

 

[HFlash]

Wait, does fair have 12 or 16 frames of ending lag @ Vipermoon ?

 

[Akira213]

All those lag reductions for Marth...

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Finished taking a general look at all characters endlag on moves with side by side comparisons between pre and post-patch. Though many of these have been confirmed since I started work on it last night. I only checked the custom moves of specials that have been changed, not every single one. And my setup did not allow me to look at dash grabs and pivot grabs. And I didn't check DLC characters because I only had them on one version of the game, and can't input my codes for 3DS without updating the system. Now, the results are:

Luigi – Dtilt endlag reduced. Neutral B endlag increased. Custom neutral Bs have this same increase.

Donkey Kong – Dash attack endlag reduced.

Zelda – Utilt endlag reduced. Down B endlag reduced on all amounts of charge. Custom Down Bs received the same change.

Ganondorf – Uthrow endlag increased (or hitlag increased due to the damage buff? Cannot tell)

Pit/Dark Pit – Neutral B endlag reduced at any charge. I do not have Pit's neutral Bs on both versions, but I did have Dark Pits. They have the same reduction

Palutena – Standing grab endlag reduced. All grabs? Cannot check. Dtilt endlag reduced

Marth – Utilt endlag reduced. Neutral B endlag reduced at any charge. The custom Neutral Bs received the same change. Fair landing lag reduced. Bair landing lag reduced. Uair landing lag reduced. Dair landing lag reduced. Up B landing lag reduced. Custom Up Bs also have reduced landing lag. Edit: And I forgot to mention these changes are all applied to Lucina as well

Robin – Neutral B endlag reduced (more significant reduction on heavier charges, but Thoron's is unchanged. Custom Neutral Bs have the same change, with Thoron being unaffected. Dthrow endlag significantly reduced.

Kirby – Neutral B endlag reduced (this is separate from the reduced startup he also received in this patch). Kirby's custom neutral Bs are unchanged. Fthrow endlag reduced (or hitlag reduced due to damage change?)

Fox – Jab 1 and 2 both have endlag increased. Neutral B endlag reduced. Custom neutral Bs are also reduced.

Charizard – Bair landing lag reduced. Dthrow endlag reduced.

Greninja – Neutral B startup frames reduced before entering charge/release window (not an endlag reduction). I don't have Neutral B 2 on both versions to confirm the same change, but I did have Neutral B 3, and there's no difference there. Dthrow endlag reduced

Wii Fit Trainer – Side B landing lag reduced significantly

Shulk – Side B startup reduced, but total frames is unchanged. Custom Side Bs do not share this change.

Mega Man – Down B endlag from forming shield reduced. Custom Down Bs do not share this reduction.

Mii Brawler – Rapid jab endlag reduced. Neutral B 2 time it takes to reach full charge reduced significantly.

Mii Swordsman – Side B 2 startup reduced. Side B 3 endlag reduced significantly.

Mii Gunner – Uair landing lag reduced. Neutral B 1 endlag reduced from firing with any charge. Side B 3 endlag reduced on either type of missile.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

"Growth increased 54 - 65" can someone explain better this for me? The meaning (in this game) of Growth. Thanks.

It means the amount by which knockback "grows" as percents get higher has been increased from 54 to 65.

 

[Vipermoon]

Wait, does fair have 12 or 16 frames of ending lag @ Vipermoon ?

16 LANDING lag.

 

[A_Kae]

Unfortunately I don't have my 3DS 1.0.3 to test this. It's as simple as doing SH DB1 to Bair. I just tried it and the Bair hitbox doesn't come out. Marth lands on frame 6. So was it always like that? Someone needs to test whether Bair's hitbox came out after SH DB1 in an early version of the game. I have no idea why this would be nerfed so I don't know if I believe it. No one even used SH DB1 let alone the crappy boost in recovery it gave.

It doesn't make sense for it to be nerfed, balance wise, no.

Aerial DB1 is 33 frames, SH is 41, and bair hits on frame 7. So, bair should be able to hit, but from both your tests and mine, it's not.

The reason for the nerf is probably because of the input window. It was 8-30 before 1.1, now it's 8-35. 2 frames more than the move duration.

Maybe I'm wrong, and I hope that I am, but I don't think so.

Wait, does fair have 12 or 16 frames of ending lag @ Vipermoon ?

Fair is 16 frames of landing lag now. Down from 18.

 

[HFlash]

Oh sorry, was using ending and landing lag interchangeably. Thanks for the clarification.

Also, why are people saying Marth's DB change is a nerf?

 

[Swop]

Aww, too bad Olimar didn't get any buffs.

 

[powerpaul95]

Sonics down throw got buffed, 6% —> 7%

Sonic seems much quicker than before.

TOOO FASSTTTTT

 

[Bribery]

Kirby – Neutral B endlag reduced (this is separate from the reduced startup he also received in this patch). Kirby's custom neutral Bs are unchanged. Fthrow endlag reduced (or hitlag reduced due to damage change?)

Were there any changes to his Jab? Some posters on the Kirby boards feel like his jab 2 connects to the Rapid Jab faster. The data dump has changes to his jab as well.

 

[TailLover]

Charizard – Bair landing lag reduced. Dthrow endlag reduced.

Can someone confirm these? Dthrow had reduced endlag last patch so you might just be making a mistake but if it was reduced again that could be pretty huge, and bair landing lag reduction would be rather nice as well.

 

[Vipermoon]

Marth – Utilt endlag reduced. Neutral B endlag reduced at any charge. The custom Neutral Bs received the same change. Fair landing lag reduced. Bair landing lag reduced. Uair landing lag reduced. Dair landing lag reduced. Up B landing lag reduced. Custom Up Bs also have reduced landing lag.

Sweet. OP Crescent Slash indirectly buffed. Dashing Assault even easier to act out of jab locks with it and to combo off of it.

It doesn't make sense for it to be nerfed, balance wise, no.

Aerial DB1 is 33 frames, SH is 41, and bair hits on frame 7. So, bair should be able to hit, but from both your tests and mine, it's not.

The reason for the nerf is probably because of the input window. It was 8-30 before 1.1, now it's 8-35. 2 frames more than the move duration.

Maybe I'm wrong, and I hope that I am, but I don't think so.

I thought of that but I figured you couldn't think of it that way because of the weird air stalling Marth does. It would be weird if that kept his SH the same. Still weird if it reduces SH time like I'm seeing.

Frame 35?

AsynchronousTimer(27.0f)
+ AsynchronousTimer(32.0f)

This is from the dump. It says 32 which would still be within the 33 total frames (and would be consistent with DB2 and DB3 forward where they also have inputs ending 1 frame before).

 

[FEFIZ]

It means the amount by which knockback "grows" as percents get higher has been increased from 54 to 65.

Ah, it's about knockback so. So the attack it's difficult to combo but easier to kill more now. Thanks!

 

[A_Kae]

I thought of that but I figured you couldn't think of it that way because of the weird air stalling Marth does. It would be weird if that kept his SH the same. Still weird if it reduces SH time like I'm seeing.

Frame 35?

AsynchronousTimer(27.0f)
+ AsynchronousTimer(32.0f)

This is from the dump. It says 32 which would still be within the 33 total frames (and would be consistent with DB2 and DB3 forward where they also have inputs ending 1 frame before).

I completely forgot about the stalling. Looking at SH with and without DB, I'm seeing less air time with DB as well. Strange. Marth seems to land about 2 frames earlier with DB. That would account for bair not hitting. In that case, I'm probably wrong about aerial DB1 getting more ending lag.

DB1 has frame speed multipliers on the first couple of frames. F27 is the 27th animation frame. 30 'real' frames have gone by when the 27th animation frame is reached. So with an increase of 5 frames on the input window, it's actually 35.

 

[Yackabean]

Whoever said Toon Link's nair is quicker upon landing lag is wrong. Tested countless times between a 1.0.8 3DS and a 1.1.0 Wii U and shield comes out the same frame for both at the same time.

Still needing better confirmation on Grab and Pivot grab as well IMO.