**ToS Presents: CLASH OF THE TITANS Melee/Brawl Tourney - DISCUSS COT DATES NOW**

[CT Chia]

lol i think i misunderstood it a bit there and i shoulda quoted xzax's post and not mexis. i meant like ppl should be allowed to say which game they like and why, but xzax shouldnt tell ppl to stop.

fawk, cot3 discussion lol

drexels hasslin us about setting up the event. any ideas gotm?

 

[MEXImadnez]

if they dont want to hear xzax tellin them to stop, then y does xzax have to listen to them complainin about a game that he likes. their complaints r bulls**t. they dont like the game b/c of the lack of competitiveness. but there is no true definition of competitiveness. the definition of competitiveness is like the definition of ethics, they both change wit time and depends on a persons point of view. so its not xzax u should be telling to stop its the others that should stop, but they both have a right to voice their thoughts.

p.s. heres a thought, punch them in the ovaries.

 

[CT Chia]

so its not xzax u should be telling to stop its the others that should stop, but they both have a right to voice their thoughts.

This confuses the hell outta me

p.s. heres a thought, punch them in the ovaries.

Yea, perhaps that's the best solution

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

Also, no has has any say if brawls a tech gme. m2k might have gave his ideas and thoughts but that doesnt mean its true.

 

[Scar]

y does he need to stop sayin wat he wants

No, I'm telling him to stop saying "stop hating on Brawl" because no one is going to listen to him unless he gives a reason for why we should stop. He's saying something worthless.

xzax was specifically pointing out scar and telling him to stop hating. scar on the other hand talks in general of why he hates the game and doesnt target his argument at a specific person.

I mean that's fine but you're missing the point too. The point is that when I "hate on" Brawl I give specific reasons for why it's not a good competitive game, which it isn't btw. Then xzax says "stopppp I am upset by this." Then Mexi goes "wow Brawl is so good and I have no reasoning behind it either besides that I'm better than my friends and it's a fresh start."

I have respect for all of you, but I'm just not dealing well with anyone telling anyone to stop saying something unless there's a good reason.

first of all he was targeting gotm, 2nd i dont f**king care who or wat they r targeting. the point is that ppl r allowed to express themselves. unlike u i dont pick favorites.

He is allowed to express himself but if he's going to say something nonsensical then shouldn't it be pointed out that it's a worthless statement? At least when I say stuff there's something backing it up.

Example 1 What Xzax says:

Also, no has has any say if brawls a tech gme. m2k might have gave his ideas and thoughts but that doesnt mean its true.

Wow. Wow. Nothing to back this up whatsoever. Xzax clearly just said that no one has any say in a matter that's purely a statement of fact. Also, M2K has said something on the matter, we have no idea what, but Xzax points out that it's only a matter of opinion and not necessarily truth. Wow.

Example 2 What Scar says:

Anyone can discuss the relative amount of technical skill required to play Brawl at a competitive level. So is Brawl more or less technical than some other point of comparison? Let's see, I'll compare Brawl to, uh, I don't know, Melee. For example.

It's very clear and apparent that Melee takes way more technical skill than Brawl does. New players can do everything the game has to master in a matter of an hour, and at the very longest for argument's sake in a week's time. I've seen it done. Melee takes months to get good and years to perfect technically. No one will say they have perfect tech skill. There is always room for improvement.

Also, SSB64 is a technically harder game than SSBB.

 

[Keitaro]

Also, no has has any say if brawls a tech gme. m2k might have gave his ideas and thoughts but that doesnt mean its true.

No offense to M2K but I'd rather listen to someone of way less Melee authority then himself. I'd definitely take anyone else's words over his "ie: Cort, Wife, Plank"

 

[pockyD]

i'm all in guys

 

[GOTM]

how are they hassling?

i mean, this thing needs to be at drexel. its too good

 

[MEXImadnez]

No, I'm telling him to stop saying "stop hating on Brawl" because no one is going to listen to him unless he gives a reason for why we should stop. He's saying something worthless.



I mean that's fine but you're missing the point too. The point is that when I "hate on" Brawl I give specific reasons for why it's not a good competitive game, which it isn't btw. Then xzax says "stopppp I am upset by this." Then Mexi goes "wow Brawl is so good and I have no reasoning behind it either besides that I'm better than my friends and it's a fresh start."

I have respect for all of you, but I'm just not dealing well with anyone telling anyone to stop saying something unless there's a good reason.



He is allowed to express himself but if he's going to say something nonsensical then shouldn't it be pointed out that it's a worthless statement? At least when I say stuff there's something backing it up.

Example 1 What Xzax says:



Wow. Wow. Nothing to back this up whatsoever. Xzax clearly just said that no one has any say in a matter that's purely a statement of fact. Also, M2K has said something on the matter, we have no idea what, but Xzax points out that it's only a matter of opinion and not necessarily truth. Wow.

Example 2 What Scar says:

Anyone can discuss the relative amount of technical skill required to play Brawl at a competitive level. So is Brawl more or less technical than some other point of comparison? Let's see, I'll compare Brawl to, uh, I don't know, Melee. For example.

It's very clear and apparent that Melee takes way more technical skill than Brawl does. New players can do everything the game has to master in a matter of an hour, and at the very longest for argument's sake in a week's time. I've seen it done. Melee takes months to get good and years to perfect technically. No one will say they have perfect tech skill. There is always room for improvement.

Also, SSB64 is a technically harder game than SSBB.

but ur points r about an old game that u r so very fond of. ur using old facts to take away from the competitiveness of brawl. r u sayin a game is only competitive if u do not get punished for missin an attack, that one move MUST connect with another. is that ur reasoning for it. ur reasons may sound logical to u and all the melee worshippers, but its bullsh*t. brawl is new and therefore we do not know all that its capable of. ur "reasoning" is ******** b/c brawl doesnt have the techniques that melee has, it is no longer competitive. brawl is meant to be different than melee, it's meant to target a new crowd as well as somewhat please the veteran smashers. think about it, if brawl was meant to be exactly like melee, then it wouldnt have sold as many games and it wouldnt have attracted so many newcomers. ur definition of competitiveness differs from others, thats why its illogical to argue this point. my definition is a game where u do get punished for missing attacks, one that tests ur instincts, the fact that landing a certain move doesnt guarantee a KO, where memorization is not a key factor in the game, and one where not everyone plays the same characters the exact same way. its stupid to argue this topic b/c neither of us can be deemed right nor wrong and xzax can tell u to stop hatin b/c ur points r also pointless.

p.s. wat other reasoning do we need to say brawl is good, it sold alot of copies, alot more new ppl have picked up smash that never have before, it is gettin really good reviews and alot of coverage.

p.s. (#2) i never said brawl was good cuz im better than all my friends, cuz im not.

 

[GOTM]

i think each side wants the other side to agree with them so much that all of these posts are taken out of context.

i think what a lot of the pro-brawl people don't understand is that everyone, including the melee supporters, love brawl, think its a very fun game, and will not underrate it in that way ever. some games are not made to be played in tournaments. i mean i wasn't around when melee started but m2k said that there were like no tournaments in the beginning, which leads me to believe that maybe they didn't start until the game really started to develop.

honestly, i just cant see why some people cant admit that as of right now, the outlook for a very technical and tournament worth game for brawl just doesn't seem to be there. the fact that u can randomly trip and take a smash and a stock loss from doing it is ridiculous. how would you like to lose that way in a major tournament with a lot of money on the line.

also, i cant see why some people cant admit that the game was built to trade hits. mexi can at least admit that. this makes the game immediately more suited towards beginners because there is no possible way, even with practice, you can guarantee combos, you will always be hit, which lowers the competitive standard.

i mean both sides can argue but so far, the people for brawl have just said "no one knows yet", i mean, maybe thats true, but usually in arguments, especially this one, the answer isn't 100% clear, at least back your side of with points that make sense.

 

[CT Chia]

its rly a weird topic. obviously right now melee is a much more competitive game than brawl especially with the high speed and extreme knowledge of techniques. however there is no denying that brawl is getting its own specific techniques each and every day. over the past 2 weeks iv learned and implemented glide tossing, learned about the dash cancel (dlx hit canceling as the n00bs call it), and just learned today that squirtle can almost properly dash dance (melee style), and somewhat super wave dash, both techniques being MUCH harder than their melee counterparts.

as for trading hits, i dont know about that. its more.... strategic placement lol. if it was all compeltely trading hits, then it would be incredibly rare to see people take stocks off others with only getting 0-30% throughout that stock, which I've been seeing more of recently while facing Azen, Velocity, and UltimoDragon.

idk, its all still up in the air. however there is absolutely no doubt in the fact that melee will be a better competitive game for a while (just not more of a compeittive game haha jk).

 

[Sensei]

I'm awesome in all three Smash games. I'm a triple threat, get at me. PayPal MMs? lol

 

[CT Chia]

haha paypal MM's, i never even thought about it. once the lag issue is solved online, i might take ya up on your offer

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

SSB64 is not scar. theres no way in hell it is or will be.

 

[Rain(ame)]

Just so you know bro, this is not a flame


Xzax, I'm sorry, but even though I'm not particularly good at 64, it IS a much more technical game than you're maknig it out to be. Have you ever seen sensei or Isai play? I have a friend that...well, be it he's not as good as sensei, he's probably around the level of M2K in 64, which is still pretty friggin' good. He's capable of beating him in it. Regardless, he, personally finds 64 to be a much more challenging game than melee, and faster paced. When it comes to technical skills and smash DI he's got the "WTF" kind of DI. There are things he complains about, because he's used to playing 64 and melee, and the fact of Lag cancelling...there being a lack of. From what I can see....yes, 64, for now IS a much more technical game than Brawl, HOWEVER, Scar did say technically. Mexi brought up a valid point, which is kind of what I've been saying, as well as GOTM. Brawl needs time to grow, this is just a pointless spat between Pro-Melee and Pro-Brawl people. If you REALLY want to get technical on the deal, right now Scar wins. If you want to know why, it's because he has facts to back him up. As of now, Brawl can't prove that it's a more technical game, or that it's "competitive". Sensei is like my friend Dane....just on a higher level, adapting to each game and being ridiculously awesome at it. I've seen 64 matches that are just downright ridiculous and amazing. I've yet to really see a Brawl match that makes me go "O_O I wanna do that." Do you know why? It's because Brawl is still an infant. Let it grow, let it breathe, and stop trying to defend it so hard. There are very few true "Brawl Haters". They are just disappointed with Brawl as they had put so much time into melee and the tech skills they've developed are kind of useless at this point. They're still playing it, though. They prefer Melee as a whole. Brawl is fun, nobody's taking it away from that. The game is addictive, my two friends spent 2 hours....maybe more going back and forth trying to outdo each other with Pit in the HRC. They had fun...since I really don't plan on picking up Pit as a character, I had no interest. We also spent a while playing Multi-man Melee, because it was fun. I've gotta get used to the game all over again, because as of now, yes I can win, but I suck. Out of the three of us, I'm probably the best spread out with characters, but I haven't truly gained a "guaranteed win" character. Mainly because I'm trying to develop Peach, and since I need alone time to do that, I don't play her that often. In terms of Raw skill, I'm the best, but since we're playing with items and such, there's a factor. I'm not John-ing because even though I hate items, and always have, it's still fun. I find the game boring at times, but usually when I'm just off, or I wanna play SSE(the latter is the case, usually). Last night I was playing like crap, and almost got 3-stocked by my friend's Ike. Eh, case in point, give the game time. I'm gonna get ready to go back to work now.


"Crank that Roy"

 

[Scar]

Mexi I have never said Brawl isn't good, I say it isn't competitive, and I'm right. This argument has been had over and over again. Yes it's new, we don't know what it's capable of (lol) but at this point nothing groundbreaking has been found and there's no reason to believe that there ever will be besides blind faith.

It's not a competitive game because too many random factors determine the outcome of the match PERIOD, single reasons such as no combos are just that: single reasons. A lot of single reasons add up to why Brawl is not competitive.

I'm not about to talk about it further right now since we ARE in a CoT thread, but if you'd like to discuss I'd be happy to over AIM or anything else.

 

[CT Chia]

I'm not about to talk about it further right now since we ARE in a CoT thread

everyone in atlantic north should kno by now that the official tunes thread is the official melee vs brawl debate thread lol

 

[Talwind]

>8V











10 lawlz

 

[Toushi]

>8V











10 lawlz

rofl-copter

 

[MEXImadnez]

It's not a competitive game because too many random factors determine the outcome of the match PERIOD, single reasons such as no combos are just that: single reasons. A lot of single reasons add up to why Brawl is not competitive.

u said that i said brawl was only good cuz im better than my friends and u also said that we were not backin up y brawl was good.

its not a competitive game cuz of too many random factor? does that mean by default that most outdoor sports r no longer competitive since they have many random factors as well. also, since i dont even no anymore, can someone please tell me wat the definition of competitive is. im also not arguing brawl vs melee, cuz they r both different games.

>8V

wat the f**k is that.

 

[mog87]

Just so you know bro, this is not a flame


Xzax, I'm sorry, but even though I'm not particularly good at 64, it IS a much more technical game than you're maknig it out to be. Have you ever seen sensei or Isai play? I have a friend that...well, be it he's not as good as sensei, he's probably around the level of M2K in 64, which is still pretty friggin' good. He's capable of beating him in it. Regardless, he, personally finds 64 to be a much more challenging game than melee, and faster paced. When it comes to technical skills and smash DI he's got the "WTF" kind of DI. There are things he complains about, because he's used to playing 64 and melee, and the fact of Lag cancelling...there being a lack of. From what I can see....yes, 64, for now IS a much more technical game than Brawl, HOWEVER, Scar did say technically. Mexi brought up a valid point, which is kind of what I've been saying, as well as GOTM. Brawl needs time to grow, this is just a pointless spat between Pro-Melee and Pro-Brawl people. If you REALLY want to get technical on the deal, right now Scar wins. If you want to know why, it's because he has facts to back him up. As of now, Brawl can't prove that it's a more technical game, or that it's "competitive". Sensei is like my friend Dane....just on a higher level, adapting to each game and being ridiculously awesome at it. I've seen 64 matches that are just downright ridiculous and amazing. I've yet to really see a Brawl match that makes me go "O_O I wanna do that." Do you know why? It's because Brawl is still an infant. Let it grow, let it breathe, and stop trying to defend it so hard. There are very few true "Brawl Haters". They are just disappointed with Brawl as they had put so much time into melee and the tech skills they've developed are kind of useless at this point. They're still playing it, though. They prefer Melee as a whole. Brawl is fun, nobody's taking it away from that. The game is addictive, my two friends spent 2 hours....maybe more going back and forth trying to outdo each other with Pit in the HRC. They had fun...since I really don't plan on picking up Pit as a character, I had no interest. We also spent a while playing Multi-man Melee, because it was fun. I've gotta get used to the game all over again, because as of now, yes I can win, but I suck. Out of the three of us, I'm probably the best spread out with characters, but I haven't truly gained a "guaranteed win" character. Mainly because I'm trying to develop Peach, and since I need alone time to do that, I don't play her that often. In terms of Raw skill, I'm the best, but since we're playing with items and such, there's a factor. I'm not John-ing because even though I hate items, and always have, it's still fun. I find the game boring at times, but usually when I'm just off, or I wanna play SSE(the latter is the case, usually). Last night I was playing like crap, and almost got 3-stocked by my friend's Ike. Eh, case in point, give the game time. I'm gonna get ready to go back to work now.


"Crank that Roy"

Looking at this block of text I Imagine even drk.pch complaining about the lack of paragraphs.

 

[Teczer0]

LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Well at least its not a block of unreadable, annoying, orange text.

>_<

OMG I dread dark pch posts >_>

ugggghhhh

So umm isn't there already a Scar vs everyone thread?

Umm... is this tournament ever gonna happen?

And Mog are you going to be in Jersey City for Spring Break or are you gonna stay at RU?

 

[Velocity]

So umm isn't there already a Scar vs everyone thread?

Umm... is this tournament ever gonna happen?

And Mog are you going to be in Jersey City for Spring Break or are you gonna stay at RU?

Find out on the next episode of Dragonball Z *que the music*

 

[GOTM]

Umm... is this tournament ever gonna happen?

if drexel ever stops being ******** and starts helpin us out a little bit, yes, this will happen, lol.

and no matter when it occurs, it will be brawl/melee, guaranteed.

 

[MEXImadnez]

Find out on the next episode of Dragonball Z *que the music*

lolZ this guy is too funny.

 

[Lord Knight]

Mexi I have never said Brawl isn't good, I say it isn't competitive, and I'm right. This argument has been had over and over again. Yes it's new, we don't know what it's capable of (lol) but at this point nothing groundbreaking has been found and there's no reason to believe that there ever will be besides blind faith.

It's not a competitive game because too many random factors determine the outcome of the match PERIOD, single reasons such as no combos are just that: single reasons. A lot of single reasons add up to why Brawl is not competitive.

I'm not about to talk about it further right now since we ARE in a CoT thread, but if you'd like to discuss I'd be happy to over AIM or anything else.

Translation = RIP Uair > Knee.

If both are here it's all good, I like both games.

 

[Scar]

u said that i said brawl was only good cuz im better than my friends and u also said that we were not backin up y brawl was good.

its not a competitive game cuz of too many random factor? does that mean by default that most outdoor sports r no longer competitive since they have many random factors as well. also, since i dont even no anymore, can someone please tell me wat the definition of competitive is. im also not arguing brawl vs melee, cuz they r both different games.

I was making fun of you via assumption, I don't think you've ever said that you like Brawl because you're better than your friends. I'm just poking fun at you. Don't take it too seriously.

Definition of competitive: Those who should win will win. Outdoor sports are extremely competitive because those who are naturally more skilled and those who practice more will almost always win. As we know with Melee, those who practice harder are almost always the winners.

Brawl doesn't seem that it will ever offer those kinds of rewards to its most dedicated players.

 

[Dark.Pch]

LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Well at least its not a block of unreadable, annoying, orange text.

>_<

OMG I dread dark pch posts >_>

Talking behind my back eh? I have a special azz kicking just for you on the battle field just for that. If your gonna insult me about something, least do it when I am around. Just a tip

And this argument is pointless to me. If you dont like brawl. Dont touch the game. If others like it, let them go wild with it. Its a new game. You have to let the metagame of brawl go before you can give out these so called facts I read so far in here. Melee Was not developed over a months worth of playing. It took time. Everything takes time.

So just have fun with it for people who wanna get good at brawl and let this game grow. In the future when tiers and techs are official and used to the max, you will see what brawl really is. For now its a new born and And saying what it will turn into is nothing but opinions cause you cant see the future until that day comes. And if you guys are gonna go hardcore over opinions, it quite entertaining to watch due to how this game just came out.

This is just me though. I am not on ether side. I play both games equally and keep my skills up in both. If you dont like brawl, there is always melee. you get everything you want and are use too. But going at something that just came out and not even let it grow is just silly to me :/ I like melee more than Brawl but I dont mind playing brawl alot, even more than melee. No one is gonna win this arguement.

 

[CT Chia]

And this argument is pointless to me. If you dont like brawl. Dont touch the game. If others like it, let them go wild with it. Its a new game. You have to let the metagame of brawl go before you can give out these so called facts I read so far in here. Melee Was not developed over a months worth of playing. It took time. Everything takes time.

The problem here isn't whether or not Brawl is a good game, it's talking about the competitive nature of it. These Melee people still like and play Brawl and the Brawl people still play and like Melee.

Definition of competitive: Those who should win will win. Outdoor sports are extremely competitive because those who are naturally more skilled and those who practice more will almost always win. As we know with Melee, those who practice harder are almost always the winners.

Brawl doesn't seem that it will ever offer those kinds of rewards to its most dedicated players.

From what I've experienced, this is roughly true. Whoever should win does, and it MOSTLY holds up. Sure there are upsets here and there (same as in sports whenever someone beats the Eagles haha) but the game is new so no one has really achieved a perfect skill at it yet. Upsets happen in Melee all the time. GOTM losing to the Yoshi player lolz. Stuff like that has happened plenty of times. It's easy to tell at this point who is good or not at Brawl, and generally the good players will not lose to the bad ones. However between good players the line isn't as clear as Melee yet as people haven't had time to refine their game enough yet.

 

[Eggm]

as people haven't had time to refine their game enough yet.

This is true, people haven't learned to never approach yet and camp all day forever.

 

[Keitaro]

My friend who was even with me in Tekken is giving me a hard time with his Metaknight in Brawl. He takes basic tactics I taught him in Melee which include sheild grabbing, roll predicting running grabs, and camping. It's pissing me off. In Melee I can at times 4 stock him so it's frustrating to be having trouble with him now. I'm just going to have to step it up.

 

[Teczer0]

Find out on the next episode of Dragonball Z *que the music*

LMFAO

That was amazing

 

[Lord Knight]

This is true, people haven't learned to never approach yet and camp all day forever.

Interesting comment coming from you.

 

[CT Chia]

This is true, people haven't learned to never approach yet and camp all day forever.

I still don't see why people think it's so hard to approach, I really don't seem to have much of a problem with it. I mean sure there might be some times where things don't work and I kinda have to chill there and think of what to do strategically, but the same thing happens to me in Melee (aka when missiles don't work lol).

With Sonic I can run around them trying to fake them out to drop their shield and become vulnerable where I can go in for a SC Grab or get behind them quickly generally by spin charging and pressure their shield 'till they drop it and go in for fast attacks. Toon Link I can get all 3 of my projectiles on em eventually forcing them to drop their shield while I play protective until they do and go in for fast bair attacks. And ROB you can do like anything really. Almost all of ROB's attacks can be space so you can attack them without getting shield grabbed such as his bair, or a well place sideB. Lasers and gyromites also work great. I know that the Toon Link method sounds a little campy, but it's really the only safe method when your trying to approach a protective opponent. However it's when I am finally safe to move in that I go aggressive until the situation seems to pop up again.

Oh noes I just let out my strategies!

ChiboSempai, maybe Slowbro is OU tier.

 

[Rain(ame)]

Chibo....beating the eagles is something that's happened for YEARS....anyway, lol. Where is it that you recruit Sonic in SSE? I think I missed it since i'm on the subspace maze...-_-


"Crank that Roy"

 

[GOTM]

Chibo....beating the eagles is something that's happened for YEARS

ame shut up.

 

[CT Chia]

Chibo....beating the eagles is something that's happened for YEARS....anyway, lol. Where is it that you recruit Sonic in SSE? I think I missed it since i'm on the subspace maze...-_-


"Crank that Roy"

lol the eagles part was a joke (though they should win EVERY game with someone like akers on their team. its like imagine a crew tournament and if one of the crews was m2k azen ken kdj with 20 stocks each but somehow lost. yea, thats like the eagles losing). but yea there are sports upsets. look at the most recent super bowl.

as for sonic, you get him right after you beat the maze and right before the last boss (they really kinda rushed him into the SSE which is a shame...) then when u beat the last boss he joins your team.

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

I played 350 brawls. SSE sux ***

 

[CT Chia]

I played 350 brawls. SSE sux ***

*moved to crew thread*

atleast I wish I could do that but I'm not a mod lol

w/e i guess we can continue this stupid brawl debate since its already here for so long lol, but for bringing up new topics like this just post in the crew thread. i wanna reply but i wont due so till u post in the crew thread lol. if i reply once here, then itl never end

 

[Lord Knight]

Oh noes I just let out my strategies!

Does not compute.