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Top Tier Peach good?

Sky`

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Just a question that I wanted to ask you guys.

If peach really did get top tier, and we keep placing well with her... would that be a good thing?

People will begin to ***** her, to be honest, a lot of people randomly joined the Peach community. I'm guilty of joining the Peach community when brawl came out, but I did play her in Melee.
But I'm talking about random people just coming in and flooding the boards with topics and posts and garbage like that... Have you seen the MK boards?

So... Maybe we should reserve her awesomeness and maintain her at a... Mid to high tier status.

We can still place first at tourneys, like we know that we can, =D, but just... say that it was a fluke, and you really don't know how you won!

Question topic: Would it Benefit the peach community, if she got Top Tier? (I f*cking hate Peach Dittos)
 

EdreesesPieces

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Peach is not top tier. She's good , and you could possibly make a case for high tier in the future, but shes not anything close to top tier, sorry. But it's a good thing to make some more people aware of her , more people aware means more advanced metagame for her. Trust me, she will never be anything close to common because she has a high learning curve.
 

Sky`

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Uhh. I disagree Edreeses. If I can be so bold, I still don't think that a list can be established.
For nobody knows everything there is to know about a character.
I remember when Sheik was top tier in Melee. GG to that.

What I'm trying to say is, if we keep finding **** out, and we start placing higher as a whole...
I think that a lot of people are going to pick her up.
Aren't the tier lists revolving around the tournament placings right now?
 

Falconv1.0

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Sky, you talk like we are constantly reinventing the game. MK ***** Peach, Snake ***** Peach, etc. This will never change.


And Sheik was top because she ****ing owns a ****ton of the cast, and the game wasn't as deep back then. But unlike Melee, where characters advanced due to stuff like wavedashing, Brawl does not have that kind of depth. There is no AT that's going to be discovered that will magically make her good, I guarantee it.


And by the way, when a BACK ROOMER, someone with more knowledge on the game than you will ever have in your life, says something, it usually has some ****ing weight to it, since they actually know a lot of ****.


Seriously, Kirby has a better chance of becoming top tier. But sadly, it's not ****ing happening.
 

BurtonEarny

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snake doesn't **** peach... and falcon1.0, sky is actually one of the better peachs on the boards if im not mistaken. I dont think he lacks knowledge is all im trying to say.

Input on topic: agree w/ the others. Peach just doesn't have the tools to be a top tier char. The only thing people would say about peach if we started winning all the tournies is that she has the best players playing her. well they would say this before they would say she was top tier...
 

arwnightmare

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THERE's a peach community!! wow..i wanna join lol..i used peach since she was playable..once she playable in any game i use her..even in mario rpg nobody liked peach i played her on my team till the end..
 

Praxis

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Sky, you talk like we are constantly reinventing the game. MK ***** Peach, Snake ***** Peach, etc.
Peach has the advantage on Snake. I challenge any Snake player to prove me wrong.

I've MM'd DSF, and didn't lose by a wide margin (2-1), and he's clearly better than me.

Peach won't be top tier. She CAN be high tier, but top tier requires a certain element of broken-ness (21% ftilt, utilt that kills at 80%, dsmash that kills and comes out instantly, etc) that Peach doesn't have. Unless we find some broken glitch to land free sweetspotted usmashes out of a dair or grab or something, Peach will never be top.

But she CAN rise to high. Frankly, I don't WANT Peach to be recognized. I LOVE having the element of surprise at tournaments.
 

cutter

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Criteria to be top tier:
- Dominant force in tournaments
- Amazing matchups (for the most part)
- Has a moveset and/or something(s) that make you go "holy **** that's ridiculous" (ie Snake's tilts, MK's moves in general, G&W's Turtle)

Peach does not really meet all three of those aspects to be a top tier characer.
 

Niko_K

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I refuse to believe Peach has an advantage on Snake. Peach is high tier right now already. She won't advance any higher, if anything she will drop as other characters metagames develop. I personally believe the metagame is at a standstill as it is.
 

PikminEater

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Peach becoming top tier is pretty much impossible. Her matchups are not good against the other top tiers, she is very light, and has few reliable KO moves. Brawl is far more broken than Melee and I doubt Peach will ever move beyond low High tier.

Though I have a lot of faith in our Peach players and I bet Peach will go far. Awareness could never hurt. You're forgetting that Peach is a frilly Princess in a pink dress. Only secure males and females will play as her. Everyone else wants a buff macho man or at least a male character.
 

Dark.Pch

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wat does tier stands for?
It's a general list of characters from the best to the worst.

As for this thread, Peach is mid tier at best. Most people know me for fighting for Peach since day one against People who but her down. Even against Vidjo if you remember that thread. And to this day I still do. And as much as I prove my point to losers that bash Peach and say "Peach sucks, wah wah wah, I need her Dsmash from melee, can't kill, etc" I am still gonna say she is not up there like that.

Peach have flaws that can be abused easy. And with the way characters are in this game, it just kills it for her. Peach was not winning any big tournaments in melee. But she was high tier for a reason. She does not have her reasons in brawl.

Also it honestly does not matter if Peach was already use too by people. That is not gonna change what kind of player you are with her. Meta and Snake are slowly dieing. as in people are already use to thier crap cause that's just about all you see. Style does not change how they are use and they still win. A way to get good with your main is to understand where they stand.

And Praxis. I disagree with the fact that Peach counters Snake. I don't care what Snakes you beat Pro or not. I could Beat M2K's Meta in a tournament. Now for beating him I will not sit here and say Peach counters Meta cause I beat him. Same goes for any good Meta. But for the position that Peach is in this game, she does good against Snake. But as for a counter, No she does not counter snake.
 

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

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Peach is good. Really good. She so much better than people give her credit for. High tier easily imo

...but that's all she is. Really good. Being really good doesn't get you anywhere. You have to be downright 'amazing' or 'broken'. Peach isn't. She's just really good. Which is sadly why she won't be top tier

Benefit the Peach community if she was top tier? Most likely. The majority of the community thinks she sucks right now.

And yes, Peach dittos suck :(
 

Dark.Pch

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Why are Peach dittos so bad for you guys. I do just fine in them and I played about hundreds of them. The way I see it, whoever has the better mindgames wins.
 

chandy

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Peach definetely doesn't suck and is deservedly high tier but putting her at top is probably putting ur hopes too high. I don't care neway. Tiers don't rely matter coz every character can be gud wen mastered and Peach is exceptional wen mastered. So even if she doesn't place well in tourneys I still consider her the best character (just my opinion)
 

Maester

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For the record I've always used Peach since Melee. I am not random person joining the peach community :(
 

Sky`

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Umm.

Sorry, But as we Peach player knows, 0-60 combos on every single character isn't anything to sneeze at. That's incredible. Peach has the advantage over snake, for she can actually combo this b*tch to about 76 in one combo. It isn't hard to get off in the slightest. I agree with Praxis.

I'm just having a hard time seeing this "Standstill." As the game evolves, so do we. I feel that it's a matter of time before our Terrible matchups, become neutral. EX. GaW. Right now, he is a pretty hard matchup for me. But you know what's cute? After getting off your 0-60, (Dair, Dair, Uair cancel, Utilt.) (Optional additional Dair for heavier characters.), That ***** is pretty much defenseless. Cause we all know what he is going to do. Bair. And we all know what we should do. Toad. He's easy to edge guard. GaW Reminds me of Rob. You can see his attacks before they happen. Same rules apply, just Toad it away, or Glide toss backward. Don't ever approach him with out a Turnip.

The matchup is no longer in GaW's Favor, simply because we've figured out different methods of killing him. As we continue to think and prosper, I believe that peaches "Bad" Matchups won't be so terrible after all.
 

Maester

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Its just a matter of countering your opponent and exploiting their weakness. Sounds easy but not all the time =X
 

EdreesesPieces

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Sky, you don't get it. Peach having a 60% combo does make her good, but it desn't make her top tier. That's still not enough to put her at an advantage against several top and high tier characters. She's around even against Snake, but at a disadvantage against the rest of the top tiers. You figuring out the matchup doesn't make the matchup in her advantage, the GW player can just as easily figure out the matchup against you. What you have to realize is that her winning will always be slightly inflated from wheee she is on the tier list because nobody knows the matchup and yes you can work that to your advantage and you always will be able to do so. But it's not enough to make her for her character flaws and put her thatttttt way. Saying shes top tier is pretty much a joke. She's mid tier right now and has the potential for the lower end of high tier. Try playing as Metaknight, Snake, DDD, game and watch or falco for two weeks and you'll feel the difference in real top tier characters.
 

Maester

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EdreesesPieces, how goes the quest to unlock Geno?
 

Sky`

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Edreeses!
This whole time, You thought I was saying that she was top tier!
No, This thread is about, if she became top tier, would that be a good thing! We are thinking of fallacious possibilities. And that's all they are for now, possibilities!
<3 So no moar hating me, and go unlock Geno already. I'm dying to see some Geno Whirl action.

Aand... Like.. Isn't she already moved up from the Mid tier to Low High Tier?
 

Gea

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The thing I really disagree about snake is that Peach has 0 safe approaches. Literally 0. If the snake is just patient and campy Peach can't do a god**** thing. Even perfectly spaced fairs can be ftilt punished out of shield. He kills her at amazingly low %s and since she doesn't have a spike, he can live for a LONG time.

Just because you do well against someone who is a good player doesn't mean your character has the advantage.

I do well against GOOD metaknights. I still don't think she has advantage. I just think most metaknights can't figure out the matchup as well as I have.
 

Maester

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Sky`, what is your sig about? I can't even read the names on each of the characters
 

Sky`

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Peach has many "Safe" approaches to Snake, if you do em right. I always find that a well timed Glide toss knocks the attacking frames off of Snakes U-tilt, and allows you to slap into grab.
Equally, I've found that your Dair reacts faster than Snakes Utilt. Same rules apply, just get that percent up.

Also, Snakes don't like Nairs, I've seen. I still think she has the advantage, if not by just one percent.
 

Sky`

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T.O.A is a Crew in Norcal.
N4N3RZ is the Diddy. :D

I should get a bettar sig. I just really like the colors.
 

Gea

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Peach has many "Safe" approaches to Snake, if you do em right. I always find that a well timed Glide toss knocks the attacking frames off of Snakes U-tilt, and allows you to slap into grab.
Equally, I've found that your Dair reacts faster than Snakes Utilt. Same rules apply, just get that percent up.

Also, Snakes don't like Nairs, I've seen. I still think she has the advantage, if not by just one percent.
Too bad all Snake has to do is wait for your throwing animations and shield the turnip and its free punish.

Oh yeah, and good luck getting into the air close enough for dair to hit. Horizontal range on utilt > your dair.

Basically the ONLY way to approach a Snake that knows what to do against Peach is to bait a mistake. You can't win on that alone.

Everytime some Peach player says Peach has advantage they can never explain how besides sending a link of them beating some Snake that like dash attacks or mortars right up to them.

Ftilt > anything you do against his shield. His Jabs > your ground range. His weight > yours. He doesn't NEED to approach. He can live much, much longer and kill much, much easier.

You only have advantage on like... Rainbow Cruise.

I MIGHT believe she has advantage if she had a spike in the air. But she doesn't.
 

Sky`

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Ehh. Peachs Bair = Snakes Ftilt in Priority.

Peaches Fair > Snaks Utilt in Priority

Dthrow to Utilt is a nice little starter.
I dunno how you play your woman but...
A lot of peach players I know don't have trouble against Snake. =]
 

EdreesesPieces

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The thing I really disagree about snake is that Peach has 0 safe approaches. Literally 0. If the snake is just patient and campy Peach can't do a god**** thing. Even perfectly spaced fairs can be ftilt punished out of shield. He kills her at amazingly low %s and since she doesn't have a spike, he can live for a LONG time.

Just because you do well against someone who is a good player doesn't mean your character has the advantage.

I do well against GOOD metaknights. I still don't think she has advantage. I just think most metaknights can't figure out the matchup as well as I have.
What about turnip throw to down air? How is that not safe? If he shields the turnip you can down air him. If he shielded the down air just float away if you think he'll up tilt, if not keep down airing more. My rule is at low percents I'll let myself eat uptilts to weaken the move (not let myself, but be aggressive from above and if i get hit at least it weakened his move) Good snake's wont up tilt you at low percents because they want to save its power, and you can abuse this with constant down air approaches.

Gea said:
Basically the ONLY way to approach a Snake that knows what to do against Peach is to bait a mistake. You can't win on that alone.
Yeah you can because it's impossible for him to do anything about. I just repeatedly try to juke him out. After 3-4 tries he will mess up and get combod about 40%. Honestly, how is he going to punish you trying to juke him out? He can't punish you for it due to his horrible aerials, so it is a viable approach.

And Geno might take a year or more to unlock. It's hard. I heard you have to get Metaknight to be the no defense nelly, but metaknight is so good that's nearly impossible.
 

gantrain05

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Sky, you don't get it. Peach having a 60% combo does make her good, but it desn't make her top tier. That's still not enough to put her at an advantage against several top and high tier characters. She's around even against Snake, but at a disadvantage against the rest of the top tiers. You figuring out the matchup doesn't make the matchup in her advantage, the GW player can just as easily figure out the matchup against you. What you have to realize is that her winning will always be slightly inflated from wheee she is on the tier list because nobody knows the matchup and yes you can work that to your advantage and you always will be able to do so. But it's not enough to make her for her character flaws and put her thatttttt way. Saying shes top tier is pretty much a joke. She's mid tier right now and has the potential for the lower end of high tier. Try playing as Metaknight, Snake, DDD, game and watch or falco for two weeks and you'll feel the difference in real top tier characters.
lol, your kidding right? peach totally shuts down DDD and G&W, and easy 50/50 maybe 45/55 snake matchup. not to mention you can't exactly punish a perfectly spaced Fair, since she can autocancel and go into many other options when she hits the ground, AA, Dsmash, Ftilt, Dash attack, Sidestepdodge, or Roll. its not as easy to punish that move as alot of people think.
 

Gea

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Yeah you can because...
To clarify, I meant to say which has favor in the matchup, not to win a match against a player. You can't say "Peach has advantage beause you can trick the Snake player into making mistakes"

Well you could, but it would be stupid.
 

EdreesesPieces

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To clarify, I meant to say which has favor in the matchup, not to win a match against a player. You can't say "Peach has advantage beause you can trick the Snake player into making mistakes"

Well you could, but it would be stupid.
Well I think it's a 50-50 matchup. The reason I don't think that's stupid is because of how easy it is to trick snake players. I'm not just talking about bad players. Peach's movements and floats make it real easy to get him to react. It is asking for a ridiculous amount of skill of the snake player versus the peach player to ask him never to fall for her jukes and movements. It's going to happen just the way peach getting hit by up tilt will happen. I don't think its any less reasonable to assume that peach will juke snake than it is to assume snake can land up tilts. Isn't the arguement that snake has the advantage based on the same thing? that he can trick peach? Because if he can't trick her then he will never land a single up tilt, forward tilt, upsmash or anything at all. He has to rely on tricking her too.
 

Dark.Pch

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I agree with Edresse. Peach can do some things to snake. and cause of that Praxis and Sky are gonna agree that Peach counters snake. What about all the stuff Snake can do to Peach? What about why Snake wins against Peach? If you are one sided, when you get beat you will make an excuse of why you lost. When there is no excuse.

Snakes Ftilt is about 3-4 frames if I am not mistaking. His uptilt as well is around that many frames. And his Jab is about 2-3 frames. And Just about all of his attacks are strong. Peach is light. He can kill you easier than you can to him. And he can also control the field. So he can kill your approaches while he can make them for himself and get to you for damage. Snake has so many ways to kill you.

Snake is a patient character. And If you try to rush at him snake can just bait you then attack

- you Dair his shield, he will wait till the Dair is over and then Uptilt you before you get another out. And Peach dies going up.

- You move away when you Dair his shield, he will Ftilt to space himself if he does not hit you with it and you are back to trying ti hit snake again. Or jump to a Nair and hit you with that or just to get you off him.

So the can ever shut down your Dair combos. It seems people think it is all about combos and tricks. That's not how pros win their matches or why they are pros to begin with. If this is all people think about to say one is a counter and etc, Then you guys are in for a world of hurt and you are very wrong.

I fight so Many Peach players and they think its all about the combos and Dairs and tilts. And I end up beating them alot. I don't go about combos and tilts. I go about using my head. Mindgames, thinking. Peach is more about 0-60 % Combos. What are you gonna do when your enemy wont let you go combo happy on them anymore. Now you will be forced to fight using your head and w/e mindgames you have. This is ( IMO ) The reason is they way she is now. She could be doing alot better But Peach players just play as I discribes. And also don't wanna expect the truth.
 

deepseadiva

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Snake is cake.

But if any of you want to, you know, stay on topic and discuss the affects of Peach rising on the tier list - not where she is on the tier list - then congratulations.

IMO, a higher spot on the tier list will always bring in more players. Humans are attracted to easy choices. These players will then soon realize playing this "top tier" character isn't as easy as they thought, they'll leave - while those still interested in Peach will stay, and they'll slowly become a valuable part of the community.

Be happy we're not MK or something.
 

gantrain05

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I agree with Edresse. Peach can do some things to snake. and cause of that Praxis and Sky are gonna agree that Peach counters snake. What about all the stuff Snake can do to Peach? What about why Snake wins against Peach? If you are one sided, when you get beat you will make an excuse of why you lost. When there is no excuse.

Snakes Ftilt is about 3-4 frames if I am not mistaking. His uptilt as well is around that many frames. And his Jab is about 2-3 frames. And Just about all of his attacks are strong. Peach is light. He can kill you easier than you can to him. And he can also control the field. So he can kill your approaches while he can make them for himself and get to you for damage. Snake has so many ways to kill you.

Snake is a patient character. And If you try to rush at him snake can just bait you then attack

- you Dair his shield, he will wait till the Dair is over and then Uptilt you before you get another out. And Peach dies going up.

- You move away when you Dair his shield, he will Ftilt to space himself if he does not hit you with it and you are back to trying ti hit snake again. Or jump to a Nair and hit you with that or just to get you off him.

So the can ever shut down your Dair combos. It seems people think it is all about combos and tricks. That's not how pros win their matches or why they are pros to begin with. If this is all people think about to say one is a counter and etc, Then you guys are in for a world of hurt and you are very wrong.

I fight so Many Peach players and they think its all about the combos and Dairs and tilts. And I end up beating them alot. I don't go about combos and tilts. I go about using my head. Mindgames, thinking. Peach is more about 0-60 % Combos. What are you gonna do when your enemy wont let you go combo happy on them anymore. Now you will be forced to fight using your head and w/e mindgames you have. This is ( IMO ) The reason is they way she is now. She could be doing alot better But Peach players just play as I discribes. And also don't wanna expect the truth.
everything in this post is completely correct, i mean yeah, i work on my peach combos, but what good are they if you can't connect them. imo, well spaced Fairs are more effective than Dair, peach is all about fakouts and mindgames, and she can do it well with her floating abilities and decent attack speed you can keep your opponent guessing. and i think in the future people will see how good she really is, but i dont think alot of people have the patience to really learn her style, so they will leave peach, and the majority of the peach players out there will become very good with her.
 

BurtonEarny

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Umm... Peach has the advantage over snake, for she can actually combo this b*tch to about 76 in one combo. It isn't hard to get off in the slightest. I agree with Praxis.
Peach is about even with snake 60-40 arguable either way... Peach can combo him very easily, but that still doesn't get him close to kill percents w/o gimping him. peach can get tilted to death VERY early unless you are VERY careful. The match imo rests on who is
A) a better player of their char
b) has more experience on the matchup. i.e. avoiding trademark moves of the other char.
for peach: avoiding the snakedash and countering with dair combos, and avoiding getting tilted to death early.
for snake: avoiding said dair combos and not using the same old playing styles that you use against everyone else, because they just dont work as well against a peach.

that being said, if a peach learns the hitboxes on all of snakes moves and explosives... I believe it wouldn't be hard to make a snake grow desperate and try stupid things that will get it punished for lots of damage simply because she can float to avoid the explosives and still not be vulnerable to attack.

i know this isn't really what the topic is about srry.

Oh and pardon me for being so bold, but wouldn't it be a good idea to back away from the snake when you see him shielding you diar and thenmove back in with another dair or trying to land and grab giving you hitboxes as you land and super armor frames so you at worst take the damage and not the knockback.
 

Dark.Pch

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I seen too many videos and its all the same when it comes to how Peach is played. Mindgames is the least amount used from what I see in videos. What I see the most is Combos and Fancy stuff. And The people they are fighting just aint having that, so when they shut all that down, then what does the player have since that all they depend on.

Here is something about me that most don't know. I am not a combo type of player. I dont really go after them so much. Nor do I tend to use alot of tricks, or even gimp the player if I could ( example, F-B someone off the stage FTW ). And as for advance stuff, I only Glide toss and use reverse air attacks. And I will even admit I am not really a stratigic person. I can give the advice on matches and etc, because I study Peach alot and her match ups as well. So I can get into deep details with advice. But I don't really use it.

The way I use my Peach is all mindgames. And my mindgames links to how the person plays. if you are agressive, I am just gonna bait your attacks (since mostly you will just attack me most of the time first and come to me) then punish. And I'll just toy with your head to get you to attack, make you flinch, roll, side step and take it from there. If you wanna be on the defense so will I, But I will just be baiting you to attack, to drop you defense. I will not rush you at all till I see an opening I can take and abuse. And if the player is mixed and just wants to look fancy with combos and etc., I am just gonna abuse w/e habit you have. And if you dont have much, I'll just try to bait the player and use w/e mindgame that comes to my head.

I play her creative and in my own way. I am now trying to look at all these fancy tricks, combos or w/e there is out there right now. Cause all of this is new to me. I been looking in the brawl advance techs area. And there are things I can do with Peach that I never do and seem cool. Like the pivot. For this I feel my Peach is an idiot, but smart at the same time. I say this because:

Good- My mindgames does take me far and up till this point I have done a good job with Peach in tournaments and have beating good players. Depending on how the opponent plays, I create a way to play them. And it can work to get me the win or close to it, ether way I put up a good fight. I know how to mess with people and bait them to flinch, bait them or roll. and good at abusing habits.

Idiot- I feel if I was to use some of the stuff I don't use with Peach, I do much better than I do now. Maybe add a few tricks, hell even some combos. Take the risk to gimp the player if I have the chance. Use some more advance techs like the pivot and that turnip cancel thing off the edge. And not always playing it safe all the time, cause that's what I mostly do, my Peach is a coward when t comes to taking a risk that could just work but I would not know cause I did not try.

I guess I am kinda complicated but thats about it. But Edresse I agree with and he is correct.

Oh and pardon me for being so bold, but wouldn't it be a good idea to back away from the snake when you see him shielding you diar and thenmove back in with another dair or trying to land and grab giving you hitboxes as you land and super armor frames so you at worst take the damage and not the knockback.
If you move back in Snake can just Uptilt you and you will ether cancel his attack with yours or you will eat his utilt. I hope you know the range of that move, the speed and how much power it has, thats all snake has to do and he can shut your dair down. And if he wanted to he can just run away, or aim the shield UP so you can't shield stap him, then you will eat an uptilt.

See, how that works all about thinking from a smart snake. I don't play snake. But I always put myself on the enemies position. and think ' Ok, I am gonna do this * insert w/e it is here* Now, what can snake do to stop this and turn it around." And I learn about what the character can do. Then think of a way to punish what I would do, in this case, Peach's Dair. Now that I know, this, I am not more aware of what can happen and have to be extra careful. I may get away with it. I may not. Its all situation. I will NEVER think one thing will always work against smart people. I put myself in thier shoes and see it from thier side. Thats another way you get better with your character and learn match ups.
 

BurtonEarny

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
579
I figured the moving back and moving in was risky, but I usually dont have a problem landing and grabing my opponents out of a falling dair that has been shielded
 
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