Top Players & Videos by Character

[LeroyJankins400]

I really wish KDJ got to compete. Wolf is still a mid level player and caused a lot of upsets. KDJ beats him pretty easily. Seeing as how Wolf got 17th, KDJ definitely had the potential to get top 8.



lmao. Hylian, you're fraudulent as ****. Sol is only entering his 6th month of competitive smash, and not only did he beat you in Link dittos, he placed equal to you in bracket. Wolf and his practice partner have been playing for a little more than a year, and Wolf made a convincingly stronger showing than you.

Also, IE placed equally to you and beat you in Link dittos. So it's quite possible he's better than you too.

You bragged to me once about being competitive for 11 years. The joke is on you, because you are beatable by newbies. You've taken games off some of the better players too, but so have all of us. PM is a jank game right now and stuff like that isn't uncommon. What matters is consistency and you don't have it.

You're being carried by how much the average player sucks at dealing with boomerang, hook shot, and spin attack. I don't suck at dealing with those, so I would be happy to MM you at the next tournament we are both in attendance for again and expose how highly fraudulent your Link is with Ganon/Marth. I was gonna leave you alone after your hilariously subpar performance at sktar compared to the other Link mains, but you're back to your old tricks and I see this as a wonderful opportunity to expose your fraudulence.

 

[Hylian]

I really wish KDJ got to compete. Wolf is still a mid level player and caused a lot of upsets. KDJ beats him pretty easily. Seeing as how Wolf got 17th, KDJ definitely had the potential to get top 8.



lmao. Hylian, you're fraudulent as ****. Sol is only entering his 6th month of competitive smash, and not only did he beat you in Link dittos, he placed equal to you in bracket. Wolf and his practice partner have been playing for a little more than a year, and Wolf made a convincingly stronger showing than you.

Also, IE placed equally to you and beat you in Link dittos. So it's quite possible he's better than you too.

You bragged to me once about being competitive for 11 years. The joke is on you, because you are beatable by newbies. You've taken games off some of the better players too, but so have all of us. PM is a jank game right now and stuff like that isn't uncommon. What matters is consistency and you don't have it.

You're being carried by how much the average player sucks at dealing with boomerang, hook shot, and spin attack. I don't suck at dealing with those, so I would be happy to MM you at the next tournament we are both in attendance for again and expose how highly fraudulent your Link is with Ganon/Marth. I was gonna leave you alone after your hilariously subpar performance at sktar compared to the other Link mains, but you're back to your old tricks and I see this as a wonderful opportunity to expose your fraudulence.

Yes, because placings in one tournament is an all out indicator of skill, let's disregard brackets completely and instead just focus on friendlies and dittos. Were you at this tournament? Did you play me? I'm plenty consistent. I play much differently in tournament than I do in friendlies as do most people. I also suck at Link dittos, but learned a ton from playing pretty much every link player at the venue(and losing to them all lmao). I've been playing PM about the same or less time than Wolf has been playing, and before I played PM I played brawl for 4 years and had to relearn melee tech skill for PM. I don't lose to "newbies" unless you mean relative to the time I've been playing which is 90% of the community. I think Wolf is the best Link as I said earlier, my other opinions about the links there were gathered from talking to people who played us and watching each others tournament matches not from friendly link dittos. I'm not a fan of trash talking people online, but if you really want to money match for no reason but to make me look bad then sure. I don't "expect" to win against anyone and take everyone I play in money matches and tournament seriously. If people who played me want to say I suck then sure but if you're just going to hide behind a keyboard then it's hard to even take you seriously.

I had an amazing time at the tournament just playing everyone and especially talking to Wolf who was super chill. I'm not one for drama and don't really care what you think of me if you haven't even played me.

 

[Lawn Chair]

Also I think that losing the ditto of any character is not a testament of who is better with that character, SFAT comes to mind because he is wildly known for being bad at the Fox ditto MU but he is considered one of the best players in the world AND Fox player in the world. So I don't think losing the ditto means really anything unless it is very consistent amount losses.

Regardless of all these post that I've made, I don't care if I'm the best Metaknight or one of the anymore. I just want to improve and have fun. This is my last post in this section, cya guys!

 

[Hylian]

Also I think that losing the ditto of any character is not a testament of who is better with that character, SFAT comes to mind because he is wildly known for being bad at the Fox ditto MU but he is considered one of the best players in the world AND Fox player in the world. So I don't think losing the ditto means really anything unless it is very consistent amount losses.

Regardless of all these post that I've made, I don't care if I'm the best Metaknight or one of the anymore. I just want to improve and have fun. This is my last post in this section, cya guys!

Seriously though I was super impressed by your MK, you had the most what I would imagine textbook mk I've ever seen and it was really cool(textbook as you almost always picked the best options when comboing etc etc). You should work on your neutral game a lot and you can get suppperrr good I bet .

 

[Guilu]

What's the reasoning behind the choice of videos ? I'm surprised not to see *Zen's sets against aMSa in the OP.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

[collapse=Sprawler's beast post]

I really wish KDJ got to compete. Wolf is still a mid level player and caused a lot of upsets. KDJ beats him pretty easily. Seeing as how Wolf got 17th, KDJ definitely had the potential to get top 8.



lmao. Hylian, you're fraudulent as ****. Sol is only entering his 6th month of competitive smash, and not only did he beat you in Link dittos, he placed equal to you in bracket. Wolf and his practice partner have been playing for a little more than a year, and Wolf made a convincingly stronger showing than you.

Also, IE placed equally to you and beat you in Link dittos. So it's quite possible he's better than you too.

You bragged to me once about being competitive for 11 years. The joke is on you, because you are beatable by newbies. You've taken games off some of the better players too, but so have all of us. PM is a jank game right now and stuff like that isn't uncommon. What matters is consistency and you don't have it.

You're being carried by how much the average player sucks at dealing with boomerang, hook shot, and spin attack. I don't suck at dealing with those, so I would be happy to MM you at the next tournament we are both in attendance for again and expose how highly fraudulent your Link is with Ganon/Marth. I was gonna leave you alone after your hilariously subpar performance at sktar compared to the other Link mains, but you're back to your old tricks and I see this as a wonderful opportunity to expose your fraudulence.

Spoiler

I read this twice; worth.

 

[The_NZA]

I think he (and I for that matter) take issue with the fact that you have talked yourself as the best Link (or top 3 Links) in the world for a while now (and still do) when you haven't placed the same as Wolf, Lazarond, Nick Riddle, and surely others. Regardless, as long as we can all admit that Wolf is the greatest Link and be happy.

EDIT:

It's kind of the same thing I feel for Umbreon. If you are claiming you are the best in the world, you are also claiming everyone else is worse than you. It's part of the claim. So when you do that, you automatically open yourself up to be criticized. The more loud you are about your self promotion, the more heat you are going to come under. And if you don't want people to talk about you in a critical way, then you should stop claiming you are the best. It's simple really.

 

[Hylian]

I think he (and I for that matter) take issue with the fact that you have talked yourself as the best Link (or top 3 Links) in the world for a while now (and still do) when you haven't placed the same as Wolf, Lazarond, Nick Riddle, and surely others. Regardless, as long as we can all admit that Wolf is the greatest Link and be happy.

EDIT:

It's kind of the same thing I feel for Umbreon. If you are claiming you are the best in the world, you are also claiming everyone else is worse than you. It's part of the claim. So when you do that, you automatically open yourself up to be criticized. The more loud you are about your self promotion, the more heat you are going to come under. And if you don't want people to talk about you in a critical way, then you should stop claiming you are the best. It's simple really.

I haven't said I was the best link for quite a long time, I even said I should be taken off the list like a month ago. I was asked my opinion about this and gave it from my perspective of playing people and watching their matches at the tournament. My post was only referencing Links at the tournament and didn't include aerolink(who dropped link) and Laz who I've never played , I also gave my opinion for the mk players because I played all of them just like the Links and felt like I had a pretty good grasp on their comparable skill. I also played fine at the tournament and lost to good players that I don't feel upset for losing to at all so I'm not sure how I was deemed fraudulent. I went to last game with Mango who I lost to and my games with bleachigo were all last stock last hit and we went to last game as well. Bleachigo took ESAM to game 3 and esam was telling me that he thought very highly of bleachigos skill. I was constantly complimented throughout the entire tournament when playing people which felt good considering people complain about how link is boring to fight so often. I've said several times it's extremely hard to gauge skill without playing someone in person and that I don't hold the rankings or my opinions of them in that high of regard, it's just fun banter. I'm more interested in their being good videos of players here and that is why I love this thread, I see new stuff from different characters when people are reporting results and showcasing impressive matches. I enjoy people criticizing my play and constructive criticism in general, not being called a fraud for losing friendlies.

 

[TheKmanOfSmash]

As much as I agree with Hylian's point of view, I still want this MM to go down.

 

[Deleted member]

Seriously though I was super impressed by your MK, you had the most what I would imagine textbook mk I've ever seen and it was really cool(textbook as you almost always picked the best options when comboing etc etc). You should work on your neutral game a lot and you can get suppperrr good I bet .

I had the same impression. His punishment game is super good about covering options from positional advantage.

 

[Hylian]

As much as I agree with Hylian's point of view, I still want this MM to go down.

I'll money match him for $50-$100. I don't know the next time I'll be on the EC though.

 

[Zerudahime]

I'm only going to say this one time.
I will never be replaced as best Zelda in the world and I will accept any and all challenges for that position as always.
I dont think this list is very accurate in terms of Zeldas anyway.
Also, being active all of the time is something that shouldn't be a requirement for these sort of ''statistics''.
Meta, Ingenuity, creativity, playstyle, and overall gameplay is something that this list should put ahead of results in terms of ''top players by character.''
Placing well at one event vs placing well at multiple is not enough evidence to throw someone else off of the list for someone newer.
However, I can say with all certainty, I dair any of you to challenge me in a Zelda ditto.

edit: I say this in the most feminine tone as possible, i love a good challenge. <3

 

[Strong Badam]

everyone who uses biker wario is a fraud

 

[Hylian]

I'm only going to say this one time.
I will never be replaced as best Zelda in the world and I will accept any and all challenges for that position as always.
I dont think this list is very accurate in terms of Zeldas anyway.
Also, being active all of the time is something that shouldn't be a requirement for these sort of ''statistics''.
Meta, Ingenuity, creativity, playstyle, and overall gameplay is something that this list should put ahead of results in terms of ''top players by character.''
Placing well at one event vs placing well at multiple is not enough evidence to throw someone else off of the list for someone newer.
However, I can say with all certainty, I dair any of you to challenge me in a Zelda ditto.

edit: I say this in the most feminine tone as possible, i love a good challenge. <3

I played this guy a lot at sktar and it's hard to imagine any other zelda on his level . Zhime is a beast.

 

[ELI-mination]

I'm gonna say this several times

I'm gahlike

 

[Infinitysmash]

More like Gah is ELIke, amirite?


...don't worry, I won't quit my day job.

 

[Spralwers]

Yes, because placings in one tournament is an all out indicator of skill, let's disregard brackets completely and instead just focus on friendlies and dittos.

Lol dude, I have no clue what you're trying to get at here. Are you suggesting that I only used friendlies and dittos to call out your fraudulence? Because I didn't. Let me restate exactly what I said, bolding the important parts.

"Sol is only entering his 6th month of competitive smash, and not only did he beat you in Link dittos, he placed equal to you in bracket."

"IE placed equally to you"

Also, E2xD placed just a spot before you in bracket.

The fact is, we have two other Link mains that did just as well as you in tournament, and one that did almost as well. That opens up the possibility you're not even third best Link, when you say you think you're second best of the ones that entered. And you don't have a history of placings at other tournaments as well that we can consider. This is why I deemed you fraudulent. Instead of saying "I think I'm second best," you should have actually said something along the lines of, "I think 2nd and 3rd is a toss up between me, IE, and Sol."

I've been playing PM about the same or less time than Wolf has been playing, and before I played PM I played brawl for 4 years and had to relearn melee tech skill for PM. I don't lose to "newbies" unless you mean relative to the time I've been playing which is 90% of the community.

lol at these johns. Sol had been playing brawl minus casually with me for two years, and in the process, developed lots of habits that are actually bad for competitive PM. So not only did he have to undo bad habits (which he is still in the process of doing), he also has to relearn melee tech skill. Brawl players transition to PM quite nicely actually - melee tech skill isn't that hard on the most part aside from very specific instances (like reverse ledge dashing with falcon and ganon), and the patience you develop in playing neutral is extremely helpful.

Sol is still a newbie. Wolf actually has no excuse to lose to him in dittos nor place equally/worse than him in bracket, and the good thing is, he consistently never loses to him in dittos and always does better in tournament.

I went to last game with Mango who I lost to and my games with bleachigo were all last stock last hit and we went to last game as well. Bleachigo took ESAM to game 3 and esam was telling me that he thought very highly of bleachigos skill.

Like I said:
"You've taken games off some of the better players too, but so have all of us. PM is a jank game right now and stuff like that isn't uncommon. What matters is consistency and you don't have it." Sol beat JReed. I took a game off Ally in a MM, with Ganondorf. Doesn't really matter.

I had an amazing time at the tournament just playing everyone and especially talking to Wolf who was super chill. I'm not one for drama and don't really care what you think of me if you haven't even played me.

Being sentimental about the tournament experience and getting complimented by good players does not give you a free pass to suggest you're second best when others can very easily contest you for third place.

 

[Cassio]

Simmer down dude. It sounds like Sol and IE havent really done much to distinguish themselves, so theres nothing wrong with Hylians statements. Hes made it very clear in the past and currently its his personal opinion.

 

[Spralwers]

Hylian hasn't done anything to distinguish himself either. If he continues to defend his opinion that he is second best without properly refuting the evidence, I will continue to pick him apart. It's fun banter and a very fun part of the smash community. When people brag, and don't have the history nor skills to back it up, that is how people will respond.

I'm not even suggesting that Sol and IE are the 2nd and 3rd best Links in attendance, just that they could be. There could have been another Link in that bracket that did equally as well, and if that's the case, we need to consider them too. This is because SKTAR PM was stacked at all ends of the bracket.

Also:

I haven't said I was the best link for quite a long time, I even said I should be taken off the list like a month ago.

You are stretching the truth here. You originally said you should be on the top players list so you can show people how to properly play Link. It wasn't until NZA put you on full blast that you backed off.

 

[Rizner]

I'm only going to say this one time.
I will never be replaced as best Zelda in the world and I will accept any and all challenges for that position as always.
I dont think this list is very accurate in terms of Zeldas anyway.
Also, being active all of the time is something that shouldn't be a requirement for these sort of ''statistics''.
Meta, Ingenuity, creativity, playstyle, and overall gameplay is something that this list should put ahead of results in terms of ''top players by character.''
Placing well at one event vs placing well at multiple is not enough evidence to throw someone else off of the list for someone newer.
However, I can say with all certainty, I dair any of you to challenge me in a Zelda ditto.

edit: I say this in the most feminine tone as possible, i love a good challenge. <3

Consider yourself challenged. What tournaments do you have scheduled to attend?

Also, after you, who do you think is second and third best? Just curious. Can message me elsewhere if afraid it might start crap b/c people sometimes don't like opinions

 

[The_NZA]

I think the issue is the following.

Hylian keeps saying things like "I'm not claiming i'm the best" when what he IS claiming is still problematic. Okay, fine, you are not claiming you are better than every Link player. You are just claiming you are better than every Link player BUT Wolf (and maybe Nick Riddle). Where are the results to back that claim?

FIne, I agree, he had a stacked bracket at Sktar (though everyones bracket was sort of stacked). He obviously is a solid player having won 4-5 rounds. But at least Lazarond, Nick Riddle, and Wolf actually win tournaments, and Sol does just as well as Hylian at the only tournaments we have to measure (locals and SKtar). IE has more relevant results than Hylian, having come in top 16 or 32 at Apex, and placing even to him at Sktar.

It's fine to want to receive critical opinions on your play, compliment others, attend tournaments and play often. It's fine to share your opinion that you feel you are a relevant Link for people to pay attention to. But don't brag about your standing unless you sure you are standing on solid ground. Hylian hasn't been standing on solid ground since 2.6.

 

[Cassio]

Results are the easiest way to rank players, but results dont necessarily measure a players skill. It becomes even more sketchy when youre using an extremely small sample of tournaments. I say this with a lot of experience in creating PRs and ranking players, occasionally players "we know" to have more skill are ranked lower because of one rare bad loss here, a lucky bracket there or lack of attendance somewhere, etc. So its really not a big deal when people create their own personal assessments of skill, because really nothing is going to be perfect, so long as they arent trying to strong arm their opinions. Measuring by results is more of a way for everyone to come to an agreement, but it is by no means perfect. Anyone is able to make their own reasonable assessment which others may or may not agree with.

 

[AeroLink_the_SoulMaster]

My post was only referencing Links at the tournament and didn't include AeroLink(who dropped link)

I didn't necessarily drop Link persay; it's more like since WHOBO MLG Special Edition I don't take Project M as seriously as before, and just play who I feel like playing while waiting for Smash 4 to come out. I bust out the Link when I want to prove something or really do my best. Also, double Link (aka THE BIFORCE) in teams is really fun with @ Problem2 .

 

[The_NZA]

Results are the easiest way to rank players, but results dont necessarily measure a players skill. It becomes even more sketchy when youre using an extremely small sample of tournaments. I say this with a lot of experience in creating PRs and ranking players, occasionally players "we know" to have more skill are ranked lower because of one rare bad loss here, a lucky bracket there or lack of attendance somewhere, etc. So its really not a big deal when people create their own personal assessments of skill, because really nothing is going to be perfect, so long as they arent trying to strong arm their opinions. Measuring by results is more of a way for everyone to come to an agreement, but it is by no means perfect. Anyone is able to make their own reasonable assessment which others may or may not agree with.

No one is denying the truth in that. But there's something ill fitted when the only person claiming they are the best i(or top 3) s that person themselves, in spite of the fact people of high caliber have been saying the exact same thing about other players, AND those players have results to coopt their claims.

 

[Cassio]

Yeah but theres nothing wrong with his claim especially when theres uncertainty on the matter. No ones really being forceful about their opinion.

But more importantly, Im pretty sure a few pages ago Hylian admitted he had his own way of gauging players that didnt necessarily coincide with the rest of the communities and to take his opinion with a grain of salt anyways.

 

[The_NZA]

Yeah but theres nothing wrong with his claim especially when theres uncertainty on the matter. No ones really being forceful about their opinion.

But more importantly, Im pretty sure a few pages ago Hylian admitted he had his own way of gauging players that didnt necessarily coincide with the rest of the communities and to take his opinion with a grain of salt anyways.

I don't know what you are defending. If he wants to post out "My gut feeling is I'm top 3 links in the world" then sprawlers is perfectly justified in calling him a fraud for thinking that way if he can't seem to prove it ever. I think that pretty much ends this discussion. Personally, I haven't thought of Hylian as top 3 Links since 2.6. There are a lot of notable Links to be paying attention to, a list not limited to Sol, Nick Riddle, Lazarond, Internet Explorer, and Apollo Ali. I don't have much more to say on this matter.

 

[Cassio]

I mean, you dont need permission for a callout. It just looks petty to call someone out hard when they were stating their opinion. Personally, I think the call out is more shoddy than the claims as it presumes a lot more on poor evidence.

 

[Spralwers]

Personally, I think the call out is more shoddy than the claims as it presumes a lot more on poor evidence.

Hylian's claim to be the second (or third) best Link at sktar presumes a lot more on poor evidence than my call out that he might not even be third best. I was hyper aggressive in my call out, I did that more for the fun of it because I was bored. I don't actually think Hylian is fraudulent especially now that he's explained himself better, but I do think it would be rather fraudulent for him or the other Link mains that made equally of a strong showing at sktar to claim 2nd/3rd best.

 

[Humble Dojo]

Well this is cute and all but lets put our money where our mouths are.
So we have
Hylian vs The Nza $50
Hylian vs Spralwers $100
Zhime vs Rizner For Greatest Zelda Evah!
Am i missing any one??

 

[ELI-mination]

No offense to Rizner he's a cool dude based on the few minutes I met him at apex but Zhime is on a whole other level, it's not even a tiny bit close, they're like leagues apart

Also Hylian is really friendly, I really don't get any sense that he's arrogant or anything at all

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Hype as SKTAR was I'm still pretty disappointed that Team Liquid dropped out.

 

[Empyrean]

Let the mm happen.

Although I dunno how to feel about Zelda dittos.

 

[Rizner]

Yeah, Zhime I do think is the best Zelda - don't think that's up for much debate. I'll still mm him and see how far I've gotten since the last time we played. Can't let him have that spot without putting up a fight every now and then.

Plus Zelda dittos da best.

 

[Strong Badam]

Every link except Lazarond sucks!!

 

[Hylian]

No one is denying the truth in that. But there's something ill fitted when the only person claiming they are the best i(or top 3) s that person themselves, in spite of the fact people of high caliber have been saying the exact same thing about other players, AND those players have results to coopt their claims.

I don't have results because I don't have tournaments to attend or people to play. I've gone almost two months before without playing a human in project M because there is only one other dedicated PM player in my city and he's in med school. I almost never play the game aside from before sktar when I practiced by myself a ton. The tournaments I attend I'm also hosting and don't focus on doing well because they are large and I would rather worry about people enjoying themselves(a john, but it's fine because I still only lose to people I think are better than me for the most part). I think you guys are putting too much weight(especially sprawlers) into placings in ONE bracket. I didn't make my assesment off placings at all I did it from PLAYING the people and looking at who they beat/lost to. Placing the same as someone in an incredibly stacked bracket doesn't mean you are the same/better than them...brackets aren't used to determine skill at those placings only the top ones. You guys also keep saying you are just using the brackets but keep bringing up me losing to him in a friendly set lol which is actually absurd because its friendlies. If you've played me and met me you know I laugh a lot during friendlies and try stuff I shouldn't be trying(and kill myself a TON), because I'm legit just trying to have fun.

You are also being assholes and downplaying sol saying he's only been playing for so long and I should never lose to him implying he sucks, yet he places top 5 in your local tournament scene and beat pretty good players in bracket. You are making it sound like I came into this thread with no reason and called out all the other link players when actually I was asked my opinion on the matter and gave it from my perspective. Sorry if my opinion offends you to the point of insulting me. At the tournament I did nothing but cheer on other links and give advice if they asked, I'm genuinely happy several link players did well and was not expecting this sort of thing at all. How about you call me out in person next time and play me instead of standing on the side-lines behind your friends or actually get someone who played me to criticize me so I can take something away from this that isn't just difference of opinion.

 

[ELI-mination]

We should have done Links vs Ganons crew battle but there was like no time to do anything at sktar at all

The only other Ganons aside from me that were there I think were Junebug, Gunblade, and Vex

 

[Hylian]

We should have done Links vs Ganons crew battle but there was like no time to do anything at sktar at all

The only other Ganons aside from me that were there I think were Junebug, Gunblade, and Vex

The ganons did crazy good from the matches I saw in bracket, that character is terrifying lmao.

 

[The_NZA]

1. I wasn't as SKtar but I'm always happy to play you.

2. You are taking this extremely seriously. You are quoting me so I see your entire post directed at me, but I never said anything about sol's relative inexperience. My point was pretty simple-- to say you are top 3 Links (especially when you admittedly barely play this game with real people) is the same as saying you are better at this game than anyone not named Wolf or Nick Riddle. I don't think i'm insulting Sol when saying he's at least on your level, and debatably, he alongside IE, Lazarond all have just as much claim to top 3 as you. This is called me telling you to have humility--this is not me trying to be obnoxious (sprawlers was admittedly being obnoxious as he proclaimed was in fun and games).

Your opinion is IMO rooted in a sense of self importance because it objectively sits you on top of every Link player but 2 people. That is the problem that I am alluding to.

If you want to play for fun, that's fine. Honestly, you wouldn't have attracted this negative attention if you had picked your words more carefully. No one would have "called you out" or any other bs if you had just said "There were a lot of good links at Sktar, not limited to Sol, Nick Riddle, IE and myself, but Wolf is clearly ahead of the pack."

You brought this on yourself. As far as I'm concerned, you are talented, good at this game, probably outclassed by other Links, but I would definitely play you and have a good time. No money matches coming from this direction.

 

[The_NZA]

NZA v. Eli - 100000000 rupees

 

[Problem2]

I really need to go to one national so I experience all these players for myself and put myself on the map as a Link contender.