Cia
das kwl
seriously, the foxes these days aren't making mistakes. so wtf do you do if there's no lag to punish?
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Top 10 Best Peaches In The World.
- Thread starter x4FoSho4x
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XIF
Smash Master
bladeofapollo
Smash Ace
I don't think it's so much the Waveshine as it is the drill-shine-Usmash. It's practically a guarantee at EVERY percent.
exarch
doot doot doot
Gah! I knew there was a reason I kept getting beat by Colbol. Now that I know Peach is slower than fox, it wont be a problem any more.
Kouryuu
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2008
- Messages
- 2,017
Camping a Marth can be hard especially if the Marth pressures you with well spaced aggression. You do realize a Peach is left open when she pulls a turnip right? Camping isn't as easy as you may think. And it's only harder if the Marth knows how to catch the turnips.
Also, I'm not really going on the assumption that the Fox would mess up but rather the potential the Peach has in punishing Fox.
Cia
das kwl
don't get me wrong, the marth match up is difficult for peach, but if you learn it, it seriously is Peach's most overrated bad match up.
all fox has to do is press "Down + B" after his L cancelled anything and just like that he's completely safe from anything <_<
I'm kinda tired of saying the same thing over and over again. when videos of "Good" fox users destroying "Good" Peach users start surfacing, you guys will understand.
But at the moment, I'm pretty confident that I can handle about 95% of the marth population w/ Peach.
all fox has to do is press "Down + B" after his L cancelled anything and just like that he's completely safe from anything <_<
I'm kinda tired of saying the same thing over and over again. when videos of "Good" fox users destroying "Good" Peach users start surfacing, you guys will understand.
But at the moment, I'm pretty confident that I can handle about 95% of the marth population w/ Peach.
Are you really going to deny that kid the money he needs to feed his cat?
exarch
doot doot doot
Yes, only because I need the money to feed myself.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Europhoria told me that Darkrain has two cats named Fox and Falco.
kirbstir
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2004
- Messages
- 1,743
I'm quite aware of how drill-shine upsmash works. =p
My point is that you can avoid getting drill-shined in the first place
bladeofapollo
Smash Ace
I figured you knew, I was just kinda venting about it in the post.
Rain(ame)
Smash Champion
Ugh, perfect example....last tournament I went to...***** by Fox. I came up against Marth? not so much. Effing Fox just ***** Peach. Yes, you can **** a stock if you get a chance, but still in all...ugh. Btw...I make Marth pay when he screws up, xD. Plus...yes...to Kirbstir's Waveshine question, xD.
XIF
Smash Master
I dont understand how this is an argument. With platforms, Fox can easily run away from peach for an entire match.
He has lasers, so he doesnt need to approach to deal damage.
And then he can basically shffl dair at any time to shine and up smash. Or shffl any aerial and destroy peach as she tries to land on her feet again. Or get a grab.
Everything is about his speed, and his ability to deal damage without approaching. Marth is very good vs peach, but its never that bad. At least he has to be somewhat near peach.
He has lasers, so he doesnt need to approach to deal damage.
And then he can basically shffl dair at any time to shine and up smash. Or shffl any aerial and destroy peach as she tries to land on her feet again. Or get a grab.
Everything is about his speed, and his ability to deal damage without approaching. Marth is very good vs peach, but its never that bad. At least he has to be somewhat near peach.
Cia
das kwl
Thanks XiF. I've been trying to get that point across for the longest time. Maybe they'll listen to you.
XIF
Smash Master
In the past year, excluding VLS, the only people I have lost to are Mew2King, Chaddd, and then the rest were all Foxes.
Fox mains
Fox Secondaries
Falco players who picked Fox anyway.
It's always fox =/
And I don't think I am terribly bad against Fox either, I've beaten Tec0 in a couple sets, Beaten DaShizWiz in a set and what not. It's just a terrible terrible matchup.
Cia
das kwl
Yeah seriously. I only lose to Jman now (and the occasional Sheik) and it's completely unreal he barely has to try w/ all of Fox's advantages. Mute City doesn't do ANYTHING.
the only stage that makes fox somewhat manageable is FD and they just ban it against me <_<
the only stage that makes fox somewhat manageable is FD and they just ban it against me <_<
kirbstir
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2004
- Messages
- 1,743
I disagree with the idea that Fox can just drillshine you whenever he wants, or grab, or easily approach with a shffl aerial. You just need a patient approach.
And really, the only people who would always take me out in MD/VA were H2YL at melee's prime. Or M2k/NEO/KM whenever they showed up (all as Marth, of course). I've taken sets off everybody in MD/VA except for Azen and NEO =p
I don't find the matchup against Marth impossible - I just find the Fox matchup easier. This includes your campy, run-away kind. Maybe I have high expectations of Marths =p
And really, the only people who would always take me out in MD/VA were H2YL at melee's prime. Or M2k/NEO/KM whenever they showed up (all as Marth, of course). I've taken sets off everybody in MD/VA except for Azen and NEO =p
I don't find the matchup against Marth impossible - I just find the Fox matchup easier. This includes your campy, run-away kind. Maybe I have high expectations of Marths =p
LOOOL at catching turnips.
Cia
das kwl
but fox can just Nair/ Dair any approach no matter how patient it is. Unless you're a master of Up + B..
or a frame perfect toader.
or a frame perfect toader.
DoH
meleeitonme.tumblr.com
you can wd back and downsmash when he approaches
can't peach CC nairs at lower percents into a downsmash?
can't peach CC nairs at lower percents into a downsmash?
exarch
doot doot doot
That's just because you haven't played Derf in the past year either. LOL
I actually am convinced (or at least have convinced myself) that peach can win the fox matchup. She just has to be careful.
Between smash DI and powershield dsmashing, she can make fox getting that KO move very very hard.
We also haven't completely worked Peach's metagame (especially against fox) to the fullest. The two techniques I mentioned above are fundamental in the potential Peach vs Fox metagame. I used to be very good at smash DI; at this recent tournament when I played Colbol, he uthrow uaired me and i missed it and said "I can't do it anymore!" Colin was exultant.
On top of that, DJL has a large place potentially which we haven't made use of. DJL out of shield into dsmash is brutal against a fox who attempts to crossup on your shield. Even more than that, DJL utilt can be done relatively easily, and is far more useful. Use it when he's burned his 2nd jump over peach and looking to land on you with an aerial (I think it's fast enough to be done on reaction).
Peach's utilt has invincibility frames on her head, so it should beat fox's stuff, plus it combos fox (into grab anyone?)
(Peach's CG on platformed levels)
Once you've got fox grabbed it's the CG for him until he lands on a platform, at which point you can DJL onto the platform and grab his rolling techs or SG the get up attack to repeat the CG. If he standing techs you can jump up with an uair and try to catch him off that (he might CC it though). Or you can float under the platform and try to tech chase him with uairs from below the platform, assuming he CCs them. (They'll combo if he doesn't CC it anyways, or you could fall back to the ground and jump through it with another uair once you've got him in the air.)
If he's grabbed on the platform you can CG with tech chases and peach's dthrow (I think the first person I saw do this was kirbster at FCD-on a marth too i think.) Or peach can uthrow CG until they DI off the platform, after which peach can run off and uair them and grab them again or juggle with uairs depending on percents. Eventually (around 100%ish) this stops and you're better off using your finisher.
Anyways, just my ideas which I don't play often enough anymore to implement. : /
kirbstir
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2004
- Messages
- 1,743
It was Meep's Falco on Yoshi's Story, but yes I'm quite amazing
Cort
Apple Head
lol @ avoiding drillshine usmash
that works all the time!
vs horrible foxes =O
that works all the time!
vs horrible foxes =O
exarch
doot doot doot
Fox jumping toward you + you rolling = fox misses
This is the only thing about general smash I have learned from Hbox.
@ Kirbstir: And you're so humble too!
This is the only thing about general smash I have learned from Hbox.
@ Kirbstir: And you're so humble too!
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Fox jumping toward you + you rolling + Fox wavelanding instead of doing Nair = Fox U-smashes you
exarch
doot doot doot
Psht foxes don't have mindgames, that's why they're playing fox. they know nothing of trixey empty sh's.
except PC
except PC
But seriously, they've got to waveland the right way which is a 50/50 chance assuming they try to empty SH in the first place. Most foxes wouldn't dream of jumping at someone without an aerial out, or shining afterwards. Doing either of these means the roll is safe. If you ever do get them to start doing the waveland stuff, just grab them out of their jumps. Introducing mixups is good.
Cort
Apple Head
no sheezy, but if the Fox reacts to which way out of the drill you're coming and has good waveshines anyway there is no way to escape the upsmash
it works all the time on bad foxes though.
it works all the time on bad foxes though.
Cia
das kwl
WOW @ that tl:dr post.
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edit: ok read that post.
exarch - the hit boxes on Fox's Dair are HUGE and go out much further then the part of him that can be hit. I'm pretty confident that Utilt wouldn't beat it. but I'll test that later.
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Kirbstir - when you see Jman, play him A LOT. make sure he uses fox. Tell us how that went. I would say the same for Cactuar as well, but you'll never get a serious match out of him lolz.
Cort - do you really think Marth is Peach's worst match up??
Do'H - yeah, but Fox's shine would come out before the Dsmash. Shine > Usmash <_<
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edit: ok read that post.
exarch - the hit boxes on Fox's Dair are HUGE and go out much further then the part of him that can be hit. I'm pretty confident that Utilt wouldn't beat it. but I'll test that later.
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Kirbstir - when you see Jman, play him A LOT. make sure he uses fox. Tell us how that went. I would say the same for Cactuar as well, but you'll never get a serious match out of him lolz.
Cort - do you really think Marth is Peach's worst match up??
Do'H - yeah, but Fox's shine would come out before the Dsmash. Shine > Usmash <_<
Cort
Apple Head
No, Fox is Peach's worst matchup by far.
Marth is somewhat behind though.
Marth is somewhat behind though.
kirbstir
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2004
- Messages
- 1,743
To Cort - I'm not talking about avoiding the upsmash once you're caught in the drillshine, but rather avoiding getting drillshined to begin with.
To Vanz - I've beaten both of their foxes in tourney already. Of course it's been months since then, and I'd be happy to play either again however, especially since melee in MD/VA needs a revival and I need the practice.
To Vanz - I've beaten both of their foxes in tourney already. Of course it's been months since then, and I'd be happy to play either again however, especially since melee in MD/VA needs a revival and I need the practice.
JFox
Smash Hero
Cactuar's Fox isn't very good vs peach, tbh. He is a good player, so he will win most of the time anyways, but its def one of his weaker matches. He has bad habits, like jabbing a lot, which constantly gets him CC dsmash'd. He doesn't combo well either, which can be devastating to peach. He just does normal cactuar stuff, like controlling space, predicting your defensive game and than taking control from there. He also refuses to camp with lasers, which is one of the best options for fox in the matchup.
Jman's fox is def better at this match.
I agree with kirbstir, i def believe people exaggerate the difficulty of the matchup. Ive played the best foxes and believe that the matchup is a counter, but its not at all impossible.
Oh and exarch, where would u implement the powershield dsmash? Your sayin powershield the drill and dsmash before the shine?
Jman's fox is def better at this match.
I agree with kirbstir, i def believe people exaggerate the difficulty of the matchup. Ive played the best foxes and believe that the matchup is a counter, but its not at all impossible.
Oh and exarch, where would u implement the powershield dsmash? Your sayin powershield the drill and dsmash before the shine?
Rain(ame)
Smash Champion
Nobody's saying the match vs. Fox is impossible, it's just really effing hard. Against Marth, it's easier, but I guess we established that. Drill Shines against Fox...well like Cort said...bad foxes you can avoid it. However...like it was told me by Eggm, the closer they do the drill to the ground, the more impossible it is to stop it in between. Fox has plenty of options with his approach and while Utilt might work sometimes...it's not a reliable thing. You can only hope the Fox makes mistakes and then punish for it. I dunno, Fox isn't as cut and dry as some people are making it.
Haha, yeah I suck vs Peach. The matchup is definitely heavy in Fox's favor though, given that you are willing to laser gay and such. My heavy use of jabbing gets me so *****. >.>
Also, Kirbstir is too good.
Also, Kirbstir is too good.
exarch
doot doot doot
JFox, I was thinking more of using it against his other aerials. But Smiles spams it against Foxes, and I think he does it on anything (I think that's what I've seen him do anyways).
Also, thank you for not dismissing what I said.
Also, thank you for not dismissing what I said.
Shakugan
Smash Journeyman
its harder for peach to beat fox than marth. ive played M2K's fox and marth and got ***** by both but i did better vs his marth. fox is too much for peach to handle. and its rare a fox ever messes up. if your peach an ur health is a 80% or higher if fox hits you will a up mash u will die depending on stage. Marth's Fsmash wont kill you over 80% maybe besides yoshi's story,and FoD but other tha that you will live.
Shakugan,maybe im a lion
Shakugan,maybe im a lion
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